Democratic Debate on MSNBC - Thread #2

[Tinoire]

Continued from thread #1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=339076

[Paulie]

1. Thanks! :)

Kerry - No responsibility.... war powers act, not my fault, bush did what he did, my vote didn't count, blah blah blah

If bush violated the war powers act, what ya gonna do about it Kerry? EXACTLY not one bit

[Dying Eagle]

4. What would you do

Impeach Bush??/ How the GOP controls the congress??

[Paulie]

35. What I would do

Own up to it.

Get an independent CONGRESSIONAL commission going, if not a special prosecutor.

This is LIFE and DEATH we're talking about. If he doesn't treat this as a serious issue, then he doesn't deserve the job. PERIOD

[Taeger]

104. Republicans CONTROL CONGRESS!!!!

How are you going to get that commission. We had to pound on these creeps for MONTHS to get the 9/11 and Iraq intelligence.

Do you SERIOUSLY think that the Republican Congress would allow a commission to IMPEACH THEIR President on such shaky grounds.

George W Bush would have to MURDER someone on live TV in order to impeach them. And even if they did ... you want DICK CHENEY to be the President?????

[waldenx]

2. Kerry makes me sick

he has no right to criticize Bush on the war.

[anti-NAFTA]

45. I shake my head every time I see him.

How could our party stoop to THIS? He is all talk and no walk. He reminds me a lot of Arnold Schwarzenegger in his imageandplatitudes strategy.

[Kusala]

3. Edwards: Not so fast, John Kerry

"We're still having an election here"

[Tinoire]

5. OW! n/t

[DjTj]

16. He took a few cheap shots at Kerry there...

...I kind of like it.

[spooky3]

46. I didn't think they were "cheap shots"

I thought they were legitimate points.

[boxster]

56. Sorry, but isn't "when I'm President" just as presumptuous as

"when I beat George Bush"?

I would say it is.

[spooky3]

80. but would he have said it without the first statement?

[boxster]

87. Sure he would have. It's a standard comment that all presidential

candidates make. My point is that saying "when I beat George Bush" is no more presumptuous than the "when I'm President" comment every candidate makes.

I think it was a pretty silly thing for Edwards to criticize.

[SadEagle]

31. He did well saying he accepts responsibility quickly....

....after Kerry spent half an hour avoiding answering. Nice contrast.

[Paulie]

6. Edwards - bring in NATO

Except NATO said NO THANKS!

[spooky3]

57. NATO said "no thanks if you give us no control"

and * has been unwilling to give up any control.

Edwards has said for months you have to give others control if you want them to help.

[ThomWV]

7. Hostility in the Debate

Is it just me or is the moderator of the debate that is going on right now just outright hostile to the candidates? Every question seems like a setup to make each of them look bad.

I'm getting upset about this one (I was going to say it in a much nastier way).

[displacedtexan]

9. DK: Yes, the prez lied.

Gloria is a ____________________!

[Kusala]

11. trying to stir up a fight

no surprise, it was assumed the rest of the candidates would attack kerry: only shot at coming back...

But so far it's been rather tame..

[Kusala]

8. Kuc hammering Iraq

It's his one big topic, next to healthcare..I love it when he hammers it though..

[Dying Eagle]

10. Everyone loves DK

Why does he have no chance?? is it all media???

[Kusala]

23. I think he's just too progressive for mainstream american

which is a pity..Mainstream America only acts when it's back is up agianst the wall and the obvious is right in front of their face..

[Kusala]

self-deleted

=

[Tinoire]

12. Kucinich on the Iraq lies

! Only one up here who voted against the war and the patriot act. It was wrong to go in it is wrong to stay in.

Stop this war. Get out of Iraq.

The American LIED to the American people.


I'll go to the UN. Give up the oil.

renounce privatization. reparations.

WOW, WOW, WOW!

:loveya: DK!

[La_Serpiente]

13. Kucinch

GEORGE BUSH LIED!!!!

[BlackVelvetElvis]

30. That was so wicked!!!

I love seeing the Dems get fired up!

[BootinUp]

14. Sharpton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't type!!!!!! LOLOLOLOL

[BootinUp]

24. Basically said If Bush didn't know he was Lying

Thats even worse!

A little hard to follow the Sharpton logic there

[Tinoire]

29. Means Bush is too stupid to be president and deranged. I loved it!

Was able to follow the logic but damn, I really wish my school had offered typing classes!

Sharpton is too fast for hunt and peck lol/

[spooky3]

85. LOL!

[La_Serpiente]

15. Sharpton

"If Bush did know that he lied, then that is even worst!!!"

LOL

[Dying Eagle]

17. Sharpton, Sharpton,Sharpton

Sharpton!!!!

[Paulie]

18. Sharpton

:yourock:

OMG!!! LOL KICK ASS

[Tinoire]

19. Sharpton- If he didn't lie, that's even worse. Certainly he lied!

because we're talking about 500 lies!

He lied in Florida. He lied in Iraq.



Why he lied? I think we need to give him the rest of his retirement to figure that one out.


((THE APPLAUSE! OMG))

Can't wait to find the transcript to this!

[eyesroll]

20. Lie! Lie!

OK, this debate was tedious before, but, WOW!
Rev. Sharpton and DK are on fire!

[Paulie]

27. We own the crowd now

and the issues.

The moderator/questioners are going to get HAMMERED. The gloves are off!

Go Al!!!! Go Dennis!!!

[DjTj]

The Reverend is on fire!

That's why we have him here - keep calling Bush a liar!

[ThomWV]

21. God Bless Al Sharpton

This is the best exchange of the entire election season

[Kahuna]

22. Sharpton already said he lied because he's a liar! Why..

is Holt asking him again why he lied? :crazy:

Go Sharpton! I saw Borger in the background shaking her head. I guess she didn't like bush being called a liar.

Lucky me. I'm recording this debate. The Sharpton portion alone is reason enough to keep it.

[Dying Eagle]

25. LOL

This would be boring without DK and Al S. I wish all Americans knew how entertaining these debates were

[AndyP]

26. Go Rev!!!

[displacedtexan]

32. The Freak Monkey is a liar AND and idiot, Al!

If the Freak Monkey doesn't know he's a liar, we're really in trouble!

Thanks, Rev. Al, but the Freak Monkey is also an idiot!

[Liberal_Andy]

28. Gotta Love Sharpton!

Why did he lie? 'Cause he's a liar!

[BlueStateGirl]

33. LMAO! Great answer.

[Kahuna]

37. FLOORMAT!

FLOORMAT = floor laughing on off rolling my ass the

[Rainbowreflect]

38. Gotta love Sharpton.

Thank God he & DK are in this thing to tell the whole truth the others are too cautious to speak.

[Kahuna]

111. Hey! I have the same shade of lipstick that Kerry is wearing..

:evilgrin:

[Kusala]

34. My Current Debate Rankings

1-Sharpton
2-Kucinich
3-Edwards
4-Kerry
5-Dean

sigh..dean's my man too, but i'm not very inspired..has he thrown in the towel? I'm loving kuc and sharp..it's a sad day in politics when these two guys dont have a chance..says a lot about our process

[Kusala]

41. Terrorism Dead last...does that mean Bush has done good?

no, it just means most of us are more worried about our odds of dying from cancer, and NOT HAVING HEALTHCARE IF WE GET SICK.

[eyesroll]

51. Dean does kind of seem like he's phoning it in...

He's been my guy for quite awhile. Debating never was his strong suit, but he just seems distracted today.

[AlinPA]

36. I love Al Sharpton and Dennis!!!!!! Flat out said Bush* lied!!

I hope its all over the news tonight and all next week!!!!!!!

[MoonRiver]

47. MSNBC will be discussing the debate afterwards.

It will be interesting to see if they bury that bomb!

[Cocoa]

39. Ed Gillespie will not like what Al said

:-)

[Kahuna]

42. That's right. The repukes are having a conference call now.

:evilgrin:

[spooky3]

50. yes--asking "how are we going to deal with honest opponents?"

[Tinoire]

58. Not to worry. The corporations won't like some of the lip service they're

hearing from their candidate either :)

[BeyondGeography]

40. How fucking great was that?

National TV and the country gets to hear the same question five times (in so many words): Why is George Bush a liar?

And who better to handle that question than Rev. Al?

I'm going to miss these moments.

[Dying Eagle]

43. I know the scream hurt but..

When did Dean turn into Gore. Monotone and boring ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

[Kusala]

49. After they hammered him for having some kind of emotion

and passion for changing america...

sad but true..

that and i think he's thrown in the towel..

sigh

[Tinoire]

44. Dean A+ at avoiding that Osama trap question! A+ n/t

[Kusala]

48. Kerry giving his idea of paradise

"I'm this president, that president"

[displacedtexan]

64. Check the transcript when it comes out.

JK detailed many of the different areas of expertise a prez must have to be effective.

[LostInTheMaise]

52. This is not a debate

It's the John Kerry coronation hour. Why even bother with this farce?

[La_Serpiente]

61. what?

this is the best debate ever. They are discussing the issues a lot more.

[Dying Eagle]

63. OMG

He is the front runner not the canidate, quit bitchin and get to work for you canidate, Thats what i did in November and now Kerry is in front

[displacedtexan]

74. I was just about to type that exact sentiment!

Thanks!

[Dying Eagle]

your welcome

[Tinoire]

70. No it's not! They can try all they want but it's not.

DK is in to the end. Dean is probably looking a little deflated because he's wondering which aides he needs to replace to keep his campaign going. Edwards is not conceding to Kerry- that's probably one of the reasons why waaay back in June the DLC disinvited him from their annual meeting.

Rummy feeling about the tone though... Hopefully they'll let the candidates ask each other questions and that will change.

[Kusala]

53. now Kucinich giving HIS idea of utopia

only, i think he actually means it...

[Dying Eagle]

54. DK for peace

gotta love that. The hippy in me is smiling :)

[Paulie]

60. Sure you have the correct Avatar????

Just checking. :D

[La_Serpiente]

55. Kucinich

I will be a Peace President

We have a war on this, a war on that. We need to stop making wars on everyone (I think that is what he said)

[AndyP]

62. good but

it's too much like a story book. I know that war is going to be a part of life with developed countries. It would be nice to be peaceful all the time, but seriously i know that will most likely never come.

[Paulie]

69. We don't attack FIRST

That's Kucinich's plan. War sometimes is unavoidable, but not until some state actually ATTACKS us!

Best defense is a good offense is good for football, not between STATES!

[diamondsoul]

68. Ok, sue me if y'all like-

but that *Isn't he just adorable!* look Kerry shot at Kucinich when he started that response made me want to jump through the screen and slap him.:grr:

[charlie]

71. Close...

We need to drop the war metaphor. War on this, war on that...

[anti-NAFTA]

59. Something's up with this debate.

I think it's being tilted, question-wise, so that Kerry doesn't get attacked because it's been quite lukewarm.

[spooky3]

65. I disagree--I think this is the best set of questions they've gotten

It's up to the candidates to attack or refrain from doing so.

[boxster]

73. I agree completely.

When did our candidates attacking each other in a debate become what we want?

[AndyP]

66. Zzzzzz

Come-on I wanna see the cage match, bitch-fest :)

[boxster]

67. What the hell is wrong with that??!?

Geez, would you prefer that they ask questions that pit each of the candidates against each other, just like many of the other debates?

Be careful what you ask for.

[Tinoire]

76. I'm getting the same rummy feeling. n/t

[AndyP]

72. Edwards:

"Bush is an obstacle to progress"
-Amen to that!

[AP]

114. That was a brilliant answer, and it's what I've been saying here.

Dems have to talk about the issues that make Democrats stand head and shoulders above Republicans.

[Rationality]

75. My landlord won't subscribe to MSNBC

fuck!

[spooky3]

79. it will be replayed on Cspan if you can get that

Info is elsewhere on GD 2004 P.

[Rationality]

83. All I get is CSPAN2

I complained about this and they don't care. They have no problem providing ESPN classic though... I'm screwed.

[displacedtexan]

109. You can watch on your computer.

C-SPAN; view show; get the media player (free); enjoy!

I watch C-SPAN on my computer at work every morning. The TV there is always on MSNBC. Yuck!

[charlie]

81. Got a fat pipe and RealPlayer?

(Or better yet, Real Alternative?)

http://www.wisconsindebate.com/liveplay.asp

[Rationality]

86. That I do!!!

:hug:

[Kusala]

77. Kerry telling story about Harlem

"around 1992"..better get your facts perfect, JK..the GOP machine will call you a liar if your facts arent PERFECT, like they did with Gore many times(internet, inspiration for book, etc)

[La_Serpiente]

78. college student

"you all say that you are committed to diversity. share with the audience your personal life that shows your committment to diversity"

[La_Serpiente]

82. cultural divide in America

it will probably center around gay rights, etc.

[Killarney]

84. Sharpton & Edwards

Sharpton rocks! OMG... the "psychotic breakdown" comment made me shoot beer out my nose.

And I think Edwards is a really honest guy. I really like him. When asked if he should be held responsible because of the IWR vote, he said "of course". He is honest. He didn't try to duck it.

[DjTj]

I really liked Edwards taking responsibility too...

...he shot a look at Kerry like, "Come on Senator, we shouldn't be trying to talk ourselves out of this one."

[Kusala]

88. Kerry spinning hypocrisy on gay marriage

rights/civil unions but not "marriage". tutu

[Dying Eagle]

91. Kerry has to play the middle

There are moderate dems that are aganst gay marriage. Its too bad. LIVE AND LET LIVE

[Paulie]

94. The correct answer is NOT modifying the constitution

How hard is that?

[Kusala]

112. too hard obviously

for the same man that waffled on his voting record..

[Rowsdower]

95. he is so weak

the guy is waffling all over the stage. why would anyone support this guy? he has no backbone. like him or not, Dean says what he means and means what he says. Kerry is a clown whose opinions change depending on which way the wind blows.

[Paulie]

He's well practiced waffling

He's in the senate. Spine? Wouldn't know it if it was on a tee-shirt. :D

[Rowsdower]

113. he has to take a stand

this guy is all over the place on just about every issue

[Paulie]

89. Kerry is so WEAK on Gay Marriage

Touching the constitution if the wording correct??? WTF!!!

[AndyP]

93. He danced around that one

[Bill McBlueState]

101. at the end: state or federal?

Well of course he means a federal amendment, Kerry. And we don't care what your personal beliefs are. Does the government have the right to deny benefits to a subset of the population based on an immutable characteristic, or does it not?

[Tinoire]

90. Kerry - Gay marriage

I believe marriage is between a man and a woman...

Support civil unions & partnership rights and non-discrimination

[Kusala]

92. uggh edwards said "Mill" again

it makes him sound like he's only seen what goes on in one little town....how about some URBAN EXPOSURE, EDWARDS?

[displacedtexan]

96. Is Edwards really John Boy Walton?

Now that theme song is stuck in my head.

[Kusala]

97. Sharpton

I'd rather have John Kerry and Howard Dean wrapped together than Clarence Thomas any day of the week..

[Dying Eagle]

98. Collage sucks

Collage sucks, I never went to collage and i'm 22 and make $23 a hour. Get over the collage crap, its not a issue to me

[GreenArrow]

99. John Kerry and howard Dean are good people with good hearts

presumably, DK and Al aren't.

[spooky3]

110. were you listening to the question? if you were, you know

that the question asked about candidates who grew up with privilege and why Edwards was or was not better suited than the privileged to be President.

DK and AL did not grow up in comfortable families as I am sure you know.

[DjTj]

I'd rather have John Kerry and Howard Dean wrapped together...

...than Clarence Thomas any day of the week.

Go Al Go!

[Killarney]

100. Sharpton: "I'd rather have Kerry & Dean wrapped together than C. Thomas!"

[spooky3]

102. Edwards did a good job crediting Kerry

and implicitly, Clark, for their military service and that it is relevant to the job.

He also credited Kerry and Dean for having good hearts.

He's showing how you point out why people should vote for you while being fair to other Democrats. I admire that.

[Killarney]

107. I liked that, too.

[Tinoire]

103. THREAD # 3 here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=339540

to accommodate those on dial-up...

[AndyP]

108. Dial up?

What's that? Did they have that when they had those record thingys? :)

[Rationality]

115. Russ Fiengold

I like what he's saying on this feed if you're watching it:

http://www.wisconsindebate.com/liveplay.asp

[Kusala]

105. Howard Dean..

sounds lost..what is wrong with him?? seriously..i think this is last stand and he's blowing it..

[AndyP]

106. He stood up

against the war and no child left behind and the patriot act issues "before it was popular" LoL