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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 04:56 PM
Original message
Dean's Moment of Truth
Barring a monumental, earth-shaking upset, Howard Dean is not going to be nominee. Though I am a Kerry supporter, and have been, I want Dean supporters to know that I have a lot of admiration and respect for both you and your candidate. Dean has done some incredible things, his campaign has been revolutionary, and I would have been extremely happy to vote for him as the nominee, as I expected he would be until just a month ago, when my candidate came back from the dead.

It looks just about over for Dean now. How the sands have shifted. I truly do feel some sadness, for though I'm thrilled to have Kerry as the nominee, it's still sad to see Dean fall from grace.

Dean, and to an extent, his supporters, now face a moment of truth. What is to become of Dean? Up until one month back, Howard Dean's insurgent campaign looked like Jimmy Carter's, an insurgent who won, not like the countless others who saw defeat. Dean will now join the ranks of those who lost, and it is now his moment. Will he be Jerry Brown of '92 or Eugene McCarthy of '68, disgruntled and disillusioned, abandoning the Democratic party and forfeiting a role in its politics? Or will he be Jesse Jackson, who used his run to build grassroots networks, and a prominent position in the Democratic Party? Or, will he be Ronald Reagan in '76 and Barry Goldwater in '64, using his support to build support for a new ideology (progressivism) in the Democratic Party, perhaps making a run in '08 if Kerry (or Edwards) fail?

I urge Dean not to be Jerry Brown, but to be Ronald Reagan, and build a new progressive movement within the Democratic Party. Doing so means fully embracing John Kerry or whoever is the nominee, staying active the Democratic party, for it is in the inside where he can affect the most change. This is Dean's moment -- will the movement he built crumble without his personality, or will it become something more lasting? Can Dean rise above his defeat and transcend the limitations of this campaign? Will he be relegated to an asterix in the history books, or will he stay a force? The questions for Dean are swirling; come this Wednesday, it appears as though he will face his new challenge; one that may well be more difficult, but ultimately more important, than his campaign.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree.
There's no point in him prolonging the pain. He can do great things in other capacities and we really need to be unified now to face Bush's onslaught.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. And Edwards? Where is the pressure on Edwards to drop out?
And Kucinich?

And Sharpton?

Why is it just fine for them to "prolong the pain"?

Why the consistant and continual double standard for everything concerning Dean?
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Because...


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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. Can I tell you how much I love that pic!
It sums it all up PERFECTLY!

And it makes me laugh to no end, every time I see it.

Thanks! :D
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. I think it's more on here
Sharpton and Kucinich are not much of a threat to Kerry; in other words although many Kucinich supporters may chose not to support Kerry in teh national (assuming he is our nominee) they won't amount to an enormous amount (personally I believe that most Kucinich supporters are savvy enough to support their candidate by supporting the nominee).

Edwards is not as great a threat because he and Kerry are selling largely the same product. Edward's followers do not seem likely to abandon the party in the wake of his concession.

Dean on the the other hand has the potential to really sink Kerry in the general if he chooses too. I am pretty sure he won't, but the potential is there. Dean is selling himself as the liberal democrat (whether his actual policies bear that out is left as an excersize for the reader). His followers certainly see Kerry (and Edwards and Clark (back when he was in the race)) as establishment candidates. So there could be a lot of bloodletting, and if most of Deans supporters decide to vote for someone else or to stay home, well, it could hurt Kerry (again, assuming he gets the nomination). And this isn't out of the realm of possibility--every other day or so we get someone posting "Well I can't in good conscious vote for Kerry so if Dean doesn't get the nomination I'll vote third party (or stay home)"

So the reason for the double standard is that Dean is in a different position than Kucinich or Edwards or Sharpton.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. And Dean's dropping out means what for his supporters? (nt)
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Dean is on the downslope. Edwards is on the upslope.
We don't know how high he could go. Maybe he won't go all the way, but if more and more people hear him and then like him, I think the least we can do is see where his celing is. That's what the primaries are about. They're not about hanging out for a long time, eating up media attention to find out where your floor is. And that's what Dean's doing. He finding out where his floor is.

In fact, the longer he sticks around, the more likely his floor is going to be really low, and it's going to undermine his next move. Right now, he's a movement. If he sticks around like Jerry Brown did, he'll have a tough time getting elected mayor of Burlington.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Dean has gotten nothing but media shit. Edwards has gotten nothing
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Since IA, Edwards has deserved nothing but praise. Before
IA, Dean got a lot of attention. A bad attention was still good for him.

And there was plenty of excuses being made for him. After the comment about the confenderate flag, Weekend Edition did a segment which lied about the comment to which people were reacting. They played an audio clip of Dean saying something reasonable about the confederate flag that was months old, then let that asshole Dem Sen from GA be the voice of crticism of Dean.

The truth was that Dean said that he wanted to be the voice "for" confederate flag waivers, and Sharpton and Edwards had criticisms that made way more sense than the ones NPR pretended were the criticisms made of that statement.

I bet that story turned up as a "negative" for Dean. But the truth is, it helped him and it was a smear of Edwards by associating him with idiocy and lunacy.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Negative media attention is NOT good in a primary election!
In January, Dean was Gored, while Edwards was adored:

http://www.mediatenor.com/US-Election_040209_monthly.pdf

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Yep, double standard indeed!
;)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Prolonging the pain?
Only 25% of Democrats have voted? Prolonging the pain?
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Whatever Dean chooses to do
does not necessarily equate with the plans of some of those who have supported him.
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. I concur. (n/t)
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NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent post
This Dean supporter thanks you.
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EXE619K Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. No matter what Howard Dean chooses to do....
He is, and will be, a major political figure in our nation's politics.

There's a reason for the un-ending support for Howard Dean, even when the chips are down.

Whether, Dean "embraces" the Nominee this year is his choice and his choice alone.

However, The decisions of his supporters will not be swayed by Howard Dean's decision.

Dean supporters want change and that's exactly what they want. The entire theme of his campaign was about the change inside the Democratic Party along with the elimination of "politics as usual".

If the change in leadership in the White House was the sole reason for this years election, I know I would have supported someone else from the beginning.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Oh, but the "benefit" of being the party out of power...
...is that party partisans will "swallow more" than they would otherwise. You'll be presented a clear, but not "dramatically different" choice.

Kerry represents the kind of Democrat that kept me from being a Democrat for much of my life. Opportunism and empty platitudes. Triangulation to secure continued payroll and power.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I will vote for Kerry out of my ABB pledge if that's what happens
as an independent I'm voting for whoever the Democratic nominee is in the GE.
I'm voting for my real choice, Dennis Kucinich, on Tuesday though.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Good for you...
...I hope that everyone, in every state, has the opportunity to vote their choice, rather than just rubber stamping the annointed one.
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. I would like Dr. Dean to remain a force and voice for our party.
He has succinctly identified many on the institutional problems our party MUST deal with if it is to become the majority party in the future. His courage and his organizing genius must not be allowed to 'fade away'. We owe it not just to Dr. Dean, but to ourselves, to make every effort to include Dr. Dean and his supporters as major players in reshaping the Democratic party.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. The importance of Howard Dean cannot be overstated....
If we begin to turn back the unprecedented power arrayed against us and our system -- control by an extreme faction of one party of all three branches of government, unlimited millions, and a once-free press -- it will be because Dean dared to start the fight. I don't know why Dr. Dean didn't win primaries. But I would appeal to him and his supporters, as someone who has studied a lot of American history, and lived longer than I like to admit, to help bring unity to the fight he began. If we win this election, and remain free to write history books that tell the truth, Dr. Dean will be there, larger, in my opinion, than the President we elect.
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. He is an insurgent and a reformer, in the best senses of the words!
Please stay with us, Dr. Dean, and help us remake our party! :)
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. A movement that pins all it's hopes ,aspirations and goals
Edited on Mon Feb-16-04 01:19 PM by candy331
on one man is doomed to failure. One man can be the spokesperson and/or initiator for a movement at any point in time but the torch cannot everlastingly be set to rest with him. Dean's voice resonated as a voice crying out in the wilderness when all seemed lost and perhaps dead and was heard by many disenchanted souls. Now if Dean's voice is no longer the catapult needed then the torch must be picked up by the next voice/voices and the movement moves on. A movement is never about one man it is about change. Too bad people have been duped by the corporate media branding of one man rather than read history to learn from past movements. It may not be too late for America yet, but the clock is ticking.........
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. "a voice crying out in the wilderness"
candy331: In conversations, I have referred often to Dr. Dean as a John the Baptist, out of the wilderness of Vermont, but he could as well be an Old Testament prophet, as you imply. I will never forget when I first heard him say, "You have the power," because I had never felt so powerless, or in fear of the future. Thank you for your post, and, yes, "the clock is ticking." The movement will need every last one of us.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. We still have 75% more of the elections to go ... Dean should stay in
Why should the majority of the country be denied the chance to accept or reject Dean, or any of the candidates? He should in.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
22. Again, I ask, why just Dean?
Why not Sharpton, Kucinich, Edwards? Why just Dean? Why is it just Dean being urged not to do the wrong thing.

Dean will do what the party says to do to avoid looking bad. What his supporters will do is the real issue.

Thanks for the concern. It is almost overwhelming.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. The Burden is not on Dean
Edited on Mon Feb-16-04 01:25 PM by dave29
It is on John Kerry. If he is to be our nominee, and he gives a damn about the party, he should do his best to unite it. In the process of securing the nomination, he hasn't done a real good job... All I'm seeing thus far is the "fall in line" attitude most Kerry supporters seem to take, and threats of retribution against Dean supporters from the DLC.

ABB is necessary, but rubbing salt in wounds is not.

You make another mistake in your post. You imply that Deanies are all progressives. Many of us are progressives. Some of us are centrists. Some of us are ex-Republicans. The real reform we seek is not just for progressive causes, but to give voice to the people again rather than corporate/lobbying interests. This is a simple, altrusitic goal that any political party should seek. The party "of the people" thus far has shown it's disdain for those of us who reject the DLC/pro-business model (which is at the expense of the little guy).

Until they get the message... we will fight on, it's just ridiculous that we have to.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Very well said. n/t
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metisnation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
25. Dean is a good man
and may have been the reason that Democrats win in 04'
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