Aspen recalls Dean's stint as '70s ski bum

[Octafish]

This article interviews people who knew Howard Dean the winter after his college graduation. That's when Dean's doctor wrote a note to his draft board stating he had a bad back. Dean must have had a miraculous recovery, because he spent that winter skiing in Vale. Almost forgot -- He made his knocking around money washing dishes and pouring concrete. Not bad for a Yale graduate.

Aspen recalls Dean's stint as '70s ski bum
Flashbacks range from dishwasher to 'loser'

By Steve Lipsher
Denver Post Mountain Bureau
Thursday, January 29, 2004 -

ASPEN - Like so many other ski bums, the young Yale graduate didn't leave much of an impression on a town where even the biggest celebrities frequently fail to draw a second glance.

But now that he is running for president, Howard Dean's 10 months in Aspen during the early 1970s have prompted the residents of Glitter Gulch to dredge their memories and scratch their heads.

"Everybody thinks they remember him because they know him now," said Georgia Hanson, executive director of Aspen's historical society.

But from the restaurant owner who employed Dean as a dishwasher and remembered him as a pot-smoking "loser" to a buddy who said they were there simply to ski, no one anticipated his future in high-stakes national politics.

CONTINUED...

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E11676%257E1921441,00.html

[slinkerwink]

1. let's see....he earned money by washing dishes so he could pay rent

instead of asking papa for rent money....

[Octafish]

3. Trust funds. Can't live with 'em.

Can't party without 'em.

[chocolateeater]

46. People who have trust funds don't usually wash dishes. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. What????

You mean to tell me that Howard didn't marry Multi-billionaire women to further his financial standing in the world? He washed dishes instead? Damn. Shame on him. :eyes:

[slinkerwink]

16. I'd rather have a President that washes dishes than a President

that has maids washing his dishes in his huge Boston townhouse....

[in_cog_ni_to]

Me too or a maid washing his dishes on a Hampton Yacht. n/t

[NashVegas]

2. As Always, the Most Interesting Parts of the Article are at the Bottom

Aspen's wars were strictly cultural.

"The freaks - us - we weren't welcome here," recalled Bob Braudis, who moved to Aspen in 1969, leaving behind corporate New York to ski.

Now the Pitkin County sheriff, Braudis reflected: "There are an awful lot of graduates of the freak movement making decisions in government today."
...

Erhard - now retired in Dean's adopted home state - recalls nearly falling out of a ski-lift chair when she learned that the same Howard Dean who had cleaned dishes for her in Aspen more than a decade earlier had become the lieutenant governor in 1986.

"Several years later (after leaving Aspen), he did write a letter to my husband and me thanking us," she said. "It was a touching letter about how we helped him reach for excellence the year he worked for us."

She resented, however, that in all of his years in Vermont politics, Dean never came to visit the couple at their new restaurant, also called the Golden Horn, which she said was a political hangout for state elected officials.

[Octafish]

14. It's also useful to read "between the lines."

Then, one can see there are lots of things to be concerned about Dean's history. I don't mind the allegation the guy was a partier. What I don't like is that his attitude toward drug users changed as governor.

http://www.colorado.edu/studentgroups/libertarians/campaigns/umctable/howarddean_drugwarrior.html

[stickdog]

17. Becoming a doctor in between had NOTHING to do with that.

Right?

[drfemoe]

38. And the Nancy Reagan just say NO!

campaign. We all know how that drastically cut drug use in the US, don't we? Oh, and all the new and improved imprison drug users longer laws, etc. Plus, some people 'mature' and adopt different interests.

[janx]

42. A student group at C.U.?

Octafish, this is really reaching! B-)

Edit: It is also useful to note that many students at C.U. spend their time doing exactly what Gov. Dean was doing in those days--only the C.U. students aren't washing dishes or pouring concrete.

[LuminousX]

73. Amazing how far people will dig to find negativity

[EXE619K]

4. Keep plugging away folks!

You're making it much easier for Independents like meself to convince other Deaners to go Third party this year.

;-)

But, no need to worry.

We won't have enough people to change the course of this election anyways.....right?

[poskonig]

9. So much for the "Democratic" wing of the Democratic Party.

Some "Democrats" sure love their Georgie.

:kick:

[EXE619K]

18. By the way...

Independent, not Democrat.

"Those who do not stand with the President, stands with the Terrorists!"

Yes, that sure sounds familiar.

[Octafish]

56. You may be right. But, I doubt it.

More people will be attracted to a Democratic nominee like John Kerry than not. The reason? The guy's a war hero who also fought to end war, his Liberal voting record, his track record of going after corruption. Plus his hair. Behold BCCI:

http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/bccipage.html

PS: If you're interested in bringing down the BFEE, please forward to a few of your pals you trust.

[mopinko]

5. dupe

this has been posted here by kerry supporters ad nauseum. rich people don't like people who work as dishwashers. rich people are a*&holes. i'm sure if john and theresa had run into howard, they would have found him small and contemptible as well. do you post this to remind us who is the rich snob in this campaign? what does this have to do with howard deans candidacy?

[NashVegas]

23. "Our DISHWASHER Became a GOVERNOR? Can't BE!"

"Shit. This means we'll have to treat all dishwashers with respect. What if they turn out to have superior social connections? THINK of the embarrassment!"

[Octafish]

34. Where's it say rich people don't like dishwashers?

What it says is Dean spent time skiing and working as a dishwasher and pouring concrete when a time such activities should have been prevented by his back injuries, the reason he got a draft deferment.

Why is this relevant? A Democratic nominee who could be painted as a draft-dodger would be mincemeat for the GOP smear machine in the fall. With a veteran like my horse, we could paint Bush as an unqualified to serve as commander-in-chief because he was AwOL from the Texas Air National Guard.

[NashVegas]

40. Let's See ...

Candidate A:

Born to privilege, wishes to avoid Vietnam. Goes into the Guard where he fucks off, then proceeds to drive 2-3 corporations into the ground, and the state of Texas as well.

Candidate B:

Born to privilege, wishes to avoid Vietnam, but accepts it may not be possible. Gets a pass on a bad back. Goes to Denver and fucks off. Proceeds to become a small-town, house-call-paying Doctor, then brings the state of Vermont out of red ink, leaves it far better off upon leaving.

[Octafish]

59. I've posted for more than a year now that if Dean's the nominee...

... he'll have my full support and backing.

Until that time comes, I'm for Candidate C:

Born to privilege, volunteers for Vietnam, where he serves heroically; loses his best friend from college and discovers war is hell; returns home and does all he can to end said hell; runs for Congress, loses, gets back up and becomes DA; kicks the Mafia #2 behind bars; ends up Lt. Governor and then a US Senator; as a Freshman in the Senate, Kerry blows the lid off of BCCI and Iran-contra drug running*. He builds a record as a supporter of Progressive and Liberal legislation. Oh yeah. He's a Kennedy Democrat.

*Both topics are taboo to the press and US Government.

[mopinko]

45. if this is the best

that your "horse" can dish up against this administration, then he should go home.

[Octafish]

48. There's a lot of other stuff Kerry can use against Bush...

... but the thread's about Dean. It wasn't all that long ago that it was "Dean, Dean, Dean" all the time. Remember?

[mopinko]

52. then post it, or at least

talk about issues, instead of flogging 30 year old non-issues. and no, i don't remember any dean dean dean. howard dean was torpedoed by his own party. and we get your empty "horse" instead. when ralph nadar gets up there and says there is no difference between dems and rethugs, you are gonna have a damn hard time proving it by john "with you on iwr, patriot act, nclb, dirty money, dirty tricks" kerry.



especially from your own party.

[Octafish]

55. You asked for it. Kerry will CLOBBER Bush.

The Bush Organized Crime Family fears no candidate more than John F. Kerry. The reason? He’s gone after them, Big Time.

For example: BCCI. That crooked bank got George W Bush his HARKEN money from the BIN LADEN and helped Pakistan get the nuclear BOMB, as well as helped arm Saddam Hussein in the 1980s. All the while, the bank helped traffic arms and drugs, launder billions, and bribe government officials around the world and across the United States. Sen. John Kerry helped shut BCCI down. What do you think Kerry's Attorney General is going to ask James R Bath?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3333.htm

http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/q4b.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/INL110A.html


Case in point #2: Iran-Contra drug running. Given the captive media, this story is unexplained in the press and is barely mentioned in our kids' history books. Anyway, Traitor and CIA White House Action Officer and all-around BFEE Turd Ollie North seems to have been the point man for a massive cocaine smuggling operation, using US Government personnel and equipment, under CIA cover, to make money to FUND an illegal TERROR war in Nicaragua. Who laundered the money? Besides Wall Street, BCCI.

http://www.assumption.edu/WebVAX/Mena/Horman22Oct96.html

http://www.conspire.com/drugscia.html

http://www.csun.edu/CommunicationStudies/ben/news/cia/961120.castillo.html


Of course. Both of the above were covered up in the name of “national security.” It wasn’t John Kerry who covered them up. And it wasn’t Pruneface Reagan and Poppy Bush by their hemorrhoidic selves. I don't like it any more than anybody, but the stench goes bipartisan.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0302/S00119.htm

http://www.strike-the-root.com/3/rarey/rarey2.html

http://lists.essential.org/1996/dioxin-l/msg00605.html


Sorry I take this all so serious that I'm willing to sink to the same level as some of my colleagues on DU. I've been here for more than two years. A rough tally shows more of my DU Friends support Dean than my horse, John Kerry. Most of them wouldn't sink to the level you describe and to which I replied.

No, I take this shit seriously. Our country is at war. Not just with the BFEE's terror network http://tonguemagazine.com/politics/819chip.html We really are at war at home. It’s good versus evil. IMO, John Kerry is a good guy . That’s the kind of courageous leadership our nation needs — and the BFEE fears.

[FredScuttle]

65. Impressive list, but....

shame that JFK didn't "clobber" Bush* when it mattered most - IWR

Oops, did I bring up a sore issue that's been talked to death here? Call it tit for tat, my friend.

[Octafish]

72. Certainly. You think Kerry wanted to?

Kerry, unlike Dean, has been to war. He's lost friends in war. He certainly doesn't enjoy having to take responsibility of casting a vote to give authority for war. Anyone who thinks he would doesn't understand, which brings this back to Dean.

[FredScuttle]

87. A non-evasive answer would be nice

Gee, where in my post did I say anything about Kerry "enjoying" his IWR vote? The point is that he voted for it...I care not a whit whether he was giddy or tortured about it. Try sticking to the matter at hand and defend why your guy was one of many who enabled Bush to proceed with this obscene war.

[bushwakker]

6. cheap shot

i can't stand the kerry bashing posts and i cant stand this one.

[funky_bug]

28. I agree. eom

[Cuban_Liberal]

7. He didn't have a 'bad back', for the record.

He had a congenital back condition which made him less than 1-A for the draft (1-Y, I think). As a combat vet, I don't want ANYONE in a firefight with me who isn't 100%.

This is such a non-issue, I can believe that people are still raising it.:eyes:

[WilliamPitt]

8. Good explanation of the 'Went-skiing-instead-of-to-Vietnam' canard

1Y. Not much he could do.

[Cuban_Liberal]

11. Thank you!

A coherent and succinct explanation. See #7, as well.

[Duder]

10. Too bad he didn't go to Breckenridge

We might have worked together.

[janx]

43. Or Copper, or Vail, or Steamboat, or Winter Park...

Goodness. There are thousands of kids who work at the resorts. They work hard, ski hard, and smoke a little.

Both of my SO's sons blew out their knees doing so (snowboards now).

[chocolateeater]

13. LOL

I thought Dean didn't have a chance. Maybe I was wrong. Thank you for the correction.
Oh by the way, this is from the same article.
<snip>
The condition, spondylolysis, is essentially a fractured vertebra that can cause debilitating pain in some cases, said Dr. Thomas St. John, an Aspen orthopedic surgeon who specializes in treatment of the spine.

"Most people that have it function fairly well," he said. "It's not necessarily a lifelong condition. It can heal."

The military classified him 1Y, meaning he would be called to duty only in a national emergency. It may have been a reasonable precaution, St. John said.

"If you have that, it's certainly something that can be worsened by marching or prolonged standing. I imagine it could be worsened by any combat duty," he said.

But Dean's medical condition wouldn't necessarily hinder skiing, St. John added. And, in fact, it didn't.
<snip>

[stickdog]

15. What is the purpose of this article?

[Octafish]

21. Character matters.

Just wanted to remind folks how a person's past helps indicate what their future will be like. Like Heraclitus wrote:

"A man's character is his fate."

[Duder]

24. Character matters...

...which includes adulterers and gigolos.

[funky_bug]

29. Innocent until proven guilty

Not the other way around... unless of course, you are Ashcroft.

[Duder]

33. Yes, the proper legal term I believe...

...would be alleged.

[janx]

39. I live in Colorado and can tell you--many, many, many

young people *still* come to spend a winter working and skiiing in the ski towns here.

[stickdog]

47. I'm not talking about your post. I'm asking about the article itself. (nt)

[maddezmom]

19. this is a hit piece n/t

[Cuban_Liberal]

22. Yes it is.

Thank you for having the integrity to say so, even though you don't support Dr. dean, I assume. :)

[Octafish]

49. No. I didn't write it. There is something I wrote...

... in July. My feelings haven't changed:

DEAN: What I Don't Like about the Guy (a Hatchet Job)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=65346

Question to the many Dean supporters who don't like it when I post something negative about Dean: Why don't you write anything when someone post something libelous about Kerry?

[pezcore64]

57. come on now

hey now
ive defended him over the alleged affair crap before and im a dean supporter.

dont be so broad.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. This article is a shame

I really don't like what has been done to Kerry but an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.

[Octafish]

31. You make an excellent point, nothingshocksmeanymore.

As I've stated for more than a year, if Dean is the Democratic nominee, I'd vote for him. Likewise, I believe the majority of Dean's supporters would vote for my horse. That said, I don't believe Dean would win the GE, nor would he make the best President.

BTW: When someone shows me proof my horse is not all I say he is, I'll dump him faster than Bush getting a 12-month furlough from the TANG.

[Adelante]

25. Oh, boo

:spank:

[funky_bug]

26. Humbly reject your intent

All the call for solidarity behind Kerry weighs so much less when you are alienating the supporters of other candidates with this old news.

Look, Kerry served, but he also came back and protested it. How does Dean's deferrment do anything but add validity to Kerry's view on the war?

People protest in different ways. Not many people want to die for a war that didn't need to happen. If he found an out, then I certainly can't blame him. At least he did it honestly, unlike Bush the Lesser, who just ducked and ran, and continues to lie about it to this day.

[janx]

27. Hmm...you left this part out. Why?

They lived a fairly quiet life, Pyne said.

"I'm not going to say he was a choirboy. But the reason for being there was skiing. If you stayed up all night and caroused, you woke up the next morning and didn't feel like skiing," Pyne said. "As far as orgies and rock 'n' roll parties and stuff like that, I'm sorry. I'm going to disappoint you."

[Octafish]

37. One can only quote four (4) graphs, janx.

That's why. Thanks for including it in your post.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Adelante]

32. GrovelBot is hungry

Feed GrovelBot.

[Cuban_Liberal]

35. "Feed me, Seymour!"

:P

[HuskerDem]

69. You know the kinda eats,

You know the kinda eats,
The kinda red hot treats
The kinda sticky licky sweets
I crave

[Zynx]

36. This is an unnecessary smear and old news.

Shame on you.

[WiseMen]

41. What is the POINT of this Personal Attack Thread. We have to STOP.

[no name no slogan]

44. Glad we're discussing this instead of, um....THE ISSUES

Although I don't support Dean, I personally don't give a flying fcuk how much skiing he did, how much doobie he smoked, or where he worked in Aspen. Especially in 1970, when Dr. Hunter S. Thompson damn near became sheriff of the county on the "Freak Power" ticket!

Why are we so damn busy ripping the candidates new a-wholes based on recollections and right-wing engineered rumours? Why don't we discuss THE ISSUES, and where our candidates stand on them?

While everybody's busy bashing the candidates on what they did in Vietnam 35 years ago, we STILL have our troops dying by attrition each day in Iraq. NONE of the so-called "front runners" have any concrete plans to get us out of there any time soon, but that's not nearly as interesting as who smoked what where and when now, is it?

And now, back to our regularly scheduled circular firing squad...

[Octafish]

50. Glad you mentioned that.

From here, I counted more than thirty threads about Kerry's non-denial denial about the intern/party girl ... in Africa. It made sense to try and bring in some new reading material.

[LSdemocrat]

51. He still has the condition

It still causes him occasional pain, mainly after long distance running.

http://www.ithadtobeyou.net/carpe/archives/000623.html

[mopinko]

53. so you admit that this is nothing

but a tit for tat slur. good job. i'm sure your party is proud of you.

[Octafish]

54. Says you.

I said what I said.

Regarding the Democratic Party: I'm in good standing. I've supported Kerry for, um, 32 years now.

Regarding what anyone else thinks? Ha ha ha ha.

[ShaneGR]

58. My only question about this thread is, why?

Seems like rubbing salt in a dead guys wounds. Kind of distasteful I think.

[Octafish]

60. Valid observation and point, sgr2.

There is a reason, however. The stakes in the upcoming election are so high, I must use a form of direct discourse that can be seen as too direct. Thus, it sometimes takes a bit of jolt to make a necessary mid-course correction.

Sorry to sound so nebulous in my explanation of the psychophysics of monomania. Bottom line: We need to get Bush and the BFEE out of Dodge. Of all the DEMs, Kerry is the best man for the job.

[DannyRed]

62. Kind of a difference

between a thirty year old story that has no meat to it, is based on a deliberate denial of the medical reality of the condition, and several deliberate insinuations and smears...

And a story that just broke on the RW slime machine, that COULD have serious implications for the "electability" of the candidate IF there turns out to be anything to it...

I posted several honest threads about the Intern story. I am a Dean supporter.

I will defend Kerry against smears and insinuation, while AT THE SAME TIME defending my right to think that IF these so far unproven allegations turn out to be substantiated, that Kerry should withdraw.

And my explanation of my position is MUCH less tortured than Kerry's explanation of his IWR vote.

And you want Dean people to support Kerry?

GPUARWYMO.

Edited for spelling.

[Octafish]

63. You make up your own mind.

You want to support Dean. Great.

You want to support Kerry. Great.

My contention Kerry is the best man for beating Bush.

Kerry also, IMHFO, is the best man to serve as President.

[DannyRed]

66. Gee,

first you smear, then you condescend.

Cool.

If you had started with the above post, then everything would be hunky-dory - may the best candidate win, I'll support yours if he wins, and you support mine.

One of the qualifications, this cycle, appears to be "electability".

I, personally, am highly suspicious of this unfounded rumor/allegation originating from all the usual RW slime-machine suspects...VERY SUSPICIOUS.

BUT, I also recognize the fact that, in reality, sometimes this kinda shit happens.

IF this rumor turns out to have any substance, (IF IF IF, highly doubtful, highly qualified IF) then Kerry is done, finished, over.

I sincerely hope that is not the case. Honestly. I do not want any candidate being ousted on ANYTHING other than the merits of their political stances, their abilities, and their qualifications to lead.

But, unfortunately, here we are....

SO, in response to legitimate worries, albeit worries based on unfounded rumors that will, hopefully, soon be put to rest as they should be....

You post a character attack, smear, hit piece of non-journalistic garbage, and insult people?

Nice.

[Octafish]

83. So, was it something I said?

I don't recall casting an aspersion toward you or any other DUer in print. I posted what I posted and you can go through the thread. I don't believe I edited any of my posts on this thread.

As for the reason why I decided to "rub it in" by posting a negative article when Dean seems on the edge of going bust: The entire weekend on DU was spent on smearing Kerry 24/7. I noted that many of the posters who engaged in spreading word about the Kenyan Intern Affair were longtime Dean supporters and Kerry opponents. So, I post ONE article that casts Dean in a negative light and I get slammed for it fairly roundly, which is pretty much up and down the thread. It really, really hurts.

Out of curiousity: Did you comment when people were smearing Kerry with the sludge of Drudge?

[LuminousX]

74. electability > issues

Which is how the pukes got stuck with Bush.

It is nice the Democrats have learned the right lessons.

[Algorem]

61. Dean foolishly rejected the chance to add war-criming to his political re-

sume.

[Anwen]

64. Oh dear! We can't have a ski bum in the White House!

:eyes:

What exactly is the point of this post?

[Robb]

79. Speaking as a ski bum

I'm rather enthusiastic at the prospect.

Ski bums for Dean! :)

[Anwen]

84. Yep!

I'm not a ski bum, but I'll toast to that! :toast:

[HuskerDem]

67. I don't see a need to kick a man on the ground

He'll probably be out very soon, he looked defeated already in the debate.

He made an awesome contribution to this party and I hope he continues to do so.

[DannyRed]

68. Thanks, Husker.

I know I made a fairly aggressive run at you the other day regarding the tone of some of your posts about Dean.

I appreciate this one, and apologize if I came across as too nasty or whatever.

That was a nice thing to say.

[HuskerDem]

70. Thanks Danny.......... for the record there's a long list of stuff about

Dean I really love. He changed everything (campaigns) for the better and we still need him.

[bitchkitty]

71. Wait a minute -

"That's when Dean's doctor wrote a note to his draft board stating he had a bad back."....

Octafish, I'm ashamed of you. That's a deliberate lie. Howard did not take a "note" from his doctor to the draft board, he showed his medical records to them.

[Octafish]

82. No. Dean took a note. He said so.

Sorry to break it to you, BK. For what it's worth: This is nothing personal against Dean or his supporters, many of whom are my friends (or were) on DU and in real life. This IS politics, though. My concern isn't with the primaries, however, it's in beating the BFEE. -- Octafish

33 Years Later, Draft Becomes Topic for Dean

By RICK LYMAN and CHRISTOPHER DREW
The New York Times, November 22, 2003

In the winter of 1970, a 21-year-old student from Yale walked into his armed services physical in New York carrying X-rays and a letter from his orthopedist, eager to know whether a back condition might keep him out of the military draft.

This was not an uncommon scene in 1970, when medical deferments were a frequently used avenue for those reluctant to take part in the unpopular war in Vietnam. And this story would have little interest save that Howard Dean was the name of the young man. Now, 33 years later, he finds himself a leading Democrat in the quest for the party's nomination to be president of the United States.

Dr. Dean got the medical deferment, but in a recent interview he said he probably could have served had he not mentioned the condition.

"I guess that's probably true," he said. "I mean, I was in no hurry to get into the military."

CONTINUED...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/22/politics/campaigns/22DRAF.html?ex=10...

[robbedvoter]

75. Must use hit material fast - before it becomes stale

What is the point of this piece?
Writer refers to "limousine liberals" which tells me everything.

[kclown]

76. Surprise no one has mentioned Hunter Thompson

He served at least one term as mayor of Aspen

[no name no slogan]

85. Not quite--

He ran for sheriff in Pitkin County, CO (where Aspen is located) in 1970, on the "Freak Power" ticket. However, he didn't win, but came in a very strong second place.

Although he almost became sheriff, Thompson was never mayor of Aspen.

[Hav]

77. .

"But from the restaurant owner who employed Dean as a dishwasher and remembered him as a pot-smoking "loser" ..."


Hey, that makes Dean even more cooler for me :).

[RichardRay]

78. Nobody has asked the most important questions

that should be the major concern on this issue: Can he turn? Did he ever ski bumps? What skis/boots/bindings did he ski on?

The rest of it is noise.

(40 years a ski bum, I never recovered and got an MD or elected to anything)

[WI_DEM]

80. Octafish

you just made this Dean supporter less likely to support your candidate because of your negative attacks on Dean. Remember you are going to need us to win in November.

[sistersofmercy]

81. Oh, who cares

It is after all just someone else's opinion in retrospect. If Dean was hanging out working as a dishwasher allegedly smoking pot, so what! Let's discuss the real issues.

[Padraig18]

86. Who freakin' CARES?

:eyes: