The Pendulum Swing Like The Pendulum Do

[arwalden]

You can't get from way over there to way over here without traveling through the pathway between the two. No matter how badly people may wish it were true that the pendulum could be instantly LEFT, it won't be. It will travel left, but it won't suddenly and magically appear on the left side.

Realistic and mature voters take the small victories where they can get them. Why would anyone be willing to (quite literally) GIVE UP ground and sacrifice genuine small advances? Why would anyone make "principled" yet very unwise choices in which the end result is certain defeat? Why would anyone, quite literally, intentionally choose to be defeated simply because the progress they seek is not instantaneous?

The "all or nothing" and "no compromise" attitude it's a bit naive, very selfish, and I fail to understand it. But, hey--at least they've got their principles to provide comfort.

Kerry might not be your ideal, but he's closer to your ideal than Bush is. Or does that not matter? In team sports, that "all or nothing do or die" attitude is admirable... in politics, it's unwise--considering the current political climate and ESPECIALLY considering the price we'll continue to pay if things are allowed to continue like this. (I'm not just talking about MONEY either.)

-- Allen

[GodHelpUsAll2]

1. Realistic and Mature voters

Just a touch on the condescending side. It's really quite disappointing to see how many people are so very willing to be condescending and arrogant while claiming to be pulling for the greater good!

[arwalden]

2. I Don't See It The Same Way You Do

I really don't have the patience to coddle and coo over splitters. If that's your thing... go for it. Let me know how it works out.

-- Allen

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arwalden]

8. I Don't Agree With You, GodHelpUsAll2.

But I'm curious what "attitude" you would have me take? One that validates the irrational paranoia of the fringe splitters? I don't think that they need any validation or encouragement from me.

I'm "not effective"? Really? Am I to assume that the foot-stomping temper-tantrums from that group ARE examples of how to be effective? The reality of this is that nothing I say (no matter how gently and politely it's said) would change the minds of splitters/protest-voters/butt-sitters/not-gonna-vote'ers.

Again, these folks have already made up their minds and are just blowing off some steam. Part of the grieving process is taunting others. They will do as they please and eventually they will learn from their mistakes. Eventually.

-- Allen

P.S. Oh... by the way... I'm not "superior to all"... just to some. LOL :hi:

[GodHelpUsAll2]

12. An attitude of

Here's my opinion but I respect yours might be a nice start.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

14. But If I Said That, I Would Be Lying

Not all opinions are worthy of respect.

All opinions are not created equal.

DTH

[rucky]

15. So the point of the post was not to persuade

but to point out the error in one's ways.

That's two different things.

Dontcha think it would be more productive to persuade?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

16. Speaking Only for Myself

I've found that among people with certain mindsets, only a clue-by-four will have any hope of changing their minds. Obviously YMMV.

But then I'm not the original poster of this thread, so I'll let Allen answer that for himself.

DTH

[arwalden]

20. Nail. Head. Squarely HIT!

I certainly do not expect to change minds that have already been made and which are quikrete'd.

I do feel a certain obligation to acknowledge the whining and bellowing however and to let them know how myopic and selfish their compulsion is for the ideologically pure candidate.

The "please-validate-me" rants and "stop-treating-me-like-a-child" foot-stomping door-slamming temper-tantrum messages do very little to earn my respect. Ironic that it's the VERY thing they want.

-- Allen

[DoveTurnedHawk]

21. THAT Is an Excellent Point

Ironic that <respect is> the VERY thing they want.

I hadn't really thought of it that way, but now that you mention it, you are absolutely, 100% correct. A keen observation!

:toast:

DTH

[arwalden]

18. I Respect One's Right To HAVE An Opinion...

But I certainly do not plan to acquiesce to anyone's demand that I must respect the opinion itself. Some opinions simply cannot be respected.

Which brings us full-circle back to one's desire to be coddled and coo-ed and validated... something that I'm not going to do. With or without my validation, these hard-core folks will not have their minds changed.

-- Allen

[GodHelpUsAll2]

19. Isn't America grand

It's great we live in a place where we are all free to choose and believe in what we will (at least for now). And taking the attitude that just becasue yours and mine don't mesh 100% yours MUST be incorrect, therefore I will get on my superior hat and shout to everyone how not agreeing with me is deserving of being treated as if they were a child that is in desperate need of hand holding and harsh questioning of their ability to think for themselves. It is sad and indicative of just what has gone so tragically wrong in this country.
It ranks right up there with the "You are with us or against us" mentality.

[arwalden]

22. No. That's Incorrect.

It's not that "not agreeing" with me makes one deserving of being treated like a child. It's actually ACTING LIKE A CHILD that makes one deserving of being treated like a child.

I don't "<question anyone's> ability to think for themselves"... I merely question the wisdom and maturity of the impulsive choices being made out of anger and disappointment. It's certainly understandable that someone might feel disappointment, but there are much more productive ways to deal with such emotions.

>> It is sad and indicative of just what has gone so tragically wrong in this country. <<

What exactly does this mean? What is so tragic?

-- Allen

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. I'm (we're) with you all the way Allen

Your sentiment is more the norm than the exception. We will take whatever ground we can gain. I am no fool. Kerry still holds great promise.

[polpilot]

4. Reminds me of persons voting for the war as being "the right thing to do".

Dean '04...The Anti-War...Anti-DLC..Anti-Establishment candidate

[NWHarkness]

3. Is self image more important than progress?

Sadly, I think for many people it is.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

5. Cheers To You, Allen!

Great post!

:toast:

DTH

[oasis]

9. Why is it so hard to convince people that incremental change, IS change?

:shrug:

[arwalden]

10. I Do Not Know Why That Is -- Some Folks Want Instant Gratification

And will apparently settle for nothing less, and throw temper tantrums when they can't have their way RIGHT NOW!

If they want to stop being treated like spoiled children, then they need to stop acting like spoiled children. If memory serves me correctly you can't get to Tomorrowland without going through Main Street USA, Frontierland, and Fantasyland. (Don't make me turn this car around!)

-- Allen

[bread_and_roses]

11. Maybe because it hasn't been working

real well? I am ABB this time around, but let's not forget that "incremental change" under eight years of a Dem administration did not get us health care for all, or a reversal of the extreme income inequality in the US (which continued to grow, albeit at a slower rate)- I could probably go on. It DID give us the racist, savage welfare "reform," for instance, and a continuation of the racist and fascistic "drug war."

This is a democracy, still (we hope). People have to make the voting choices that seem to them to best further their own issues. I am ABB, but I respect other's choices to vote as they see fit. We're not the Radical Right, I hope, demanding lock-step obedience. That is our strength as well as our weakness. The eventual nominee has the responsibility to convince enough people to vote for him to win.

[oasis]

13. I also respect other's voting choices, it's their logic that I question.

[bushwakker]

17. Thank You

My thoughts exactly - I just can't articulate it the way you did.