HILLARY'S POLL VAULT WIDENS LEAD OVER BARACK

[Alamom]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07072007/news/nationalnews/hillarys_poll_vault_nationalnews_maggie_haberman.htm


HILLARY'S POLL VAULT
WIDENS LEAD OVER BARACK

By MAGGIE HABERMAN
July 7, 2007 -- Capitalizing on her experience, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has opened up a 23-point lead over Barack Obama, a new poll released yesterday shows.

The Newsweek poll shows Clinton leading Obama 56-33 percent in a two-way matchup of the Democratic presidential candidates.

That's almost double a previous survey in early May that showed Clinton with a 51-39 percent edge over Obama.

The latest numbers also indicate that the question of which candidate is experienced enough to take the Oval Office is playing into the equation.

Asked "do you think he or she has enough experience in politics and government to be a good president," some 70 percent of voters said Clinton does, compared to 25 percent who gave her experience level a thumbs down.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Resistance is Futile

Strange turd in the punchbowl though - Obama decisively outraised Clinton in the first half of the year. Looks like people who actually make a decision, decide for Obama.

Maybe they look at her voting record?

[Alamom]

2. I love the Borg. I actually have an assimilation smiley >>>>

[MonkeyFunk]

5. LOL...

so this quarter, raising the most money is what counts.

Nonetheless, this is very good news for Clinton.

[loudsue]

26. Obama's contributions are from MORE VOTERS than Hillary's.

And John Edwards has MORE VOTERS donating to him that either Obama or Clinton. THAT is the figure I look at.

Besides, a 23 point lead is .... well, it makes me question the legitimacy of this poll.

:kick:

[juajen]

37. Would you think it legit if Obama or Edwards was on top?

Just sayin'.

[loudsue]

41. No, actually...not that big of a spread, and not this early on. No.

:kick:

[draft_mario_cuomo]

56. Fmr. president Phil Gramm and President Dean agree with you

==Obama decisively outraised Clinton in the first half of the year. Looks like people who actually make a decision, decide for Obama.==

Re-elect President Dean!

[MannyGoldstein]

58. As I Recall, Dean Was Ahead in the Polls At This Point

So what's your point?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

61. Money does not buy votes

It is amusing how suddenly fund-raising has become the sacred measure of a candidate's strength ever since BO trounced the field in money raised...

Dean was not ahead at this point. Lieberman was. Still, your point stands since Dean took the lead when people began paying attention after Labor Day and lost it only briefly when Clarkmania swept the media. The front-runner is not necessarily going to win. However, I am sure you recall that the 2nd place candidate heading into the primaries, who entered late and was running based on his early opposition to the war and was touted as a new face who was the only alternative to the then front-runner, did not win either in 2004. ;)

[demgirlamerica]

3. i agree

obama has no original thoughts or ideas. he is a media creation with no substance.

[yourout]

4. "Obama has no original thoughts or ideas..." ...And Hillary does?

Hillary is the consummate political weather vane without one iota of courage to take an unpopular stand.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. Hillary will be eaten alive by the Republicans...

They don't even have to make a plan of attack. They already have it. Her picture comes out in the paper and the first thing in everyone's mind is one or two of the millions of insults hurled at her during Clinton's two terms.

[Alamom]

12. This campaign will be a little different than we've seen in a while,

repuke insults nor attacks will slow her down. She's well seasoned & practiced on rebutting them and doing it quite well, I might add.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

18. Repuke insults don't have to slow her down...

they didn't slow her down back then. What's more, it's not as if they have to begin bashing her now. The bashing was already done, everyone remembers it (except little kids), and it's like a kid in a playground who gets called names... even if he fights back, until he leaves the school for good, it's not going to be over.

[ChiciB1]

33. They've Been Salivating For Years... Waiting To Have Hillary As The

Democratic nominee! And tell me why they only do comparisons between TWO candidates and NOT all the rest??

Sure, we KNOW what MSM says, it WILL be Hillary.... however I don't know many people who are supporting her. But then, I may have "selective" friends! But I don't think so! We talk politics all the time and many of us are really really tired of hearing that it's going to be Hillary!!!!!

[xkenx]

9. You mean like when she voted for IWR when she had access to

the full intelligence reports which debunked Bushco's claims about Iraq. And in spite of 23 courageous Democratic Senators who voted NO? You mean like that? Or like supporting Bush on Iraq until it became recently safe to oppose him when the weathervane turned? Like that you mean?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. Umm... and that has what to do with the fact that Repukes trashed her 24/7?

And that after trashing her, she became helpless to push forward anything because the trashing became real in everyone's mind? I understand you want her to win. I wish she would. However, to imagine an alternate universe is not logical. She is the most bashed person in the U.S. Among the general populace, she's not the most popular person. She is not her husband. She is female, has lived through decades of being called names and made to look stupid. I want a candidate that looks successful from the get-go. I don't want to have to do repair and mend jobs of her reputation as the campaign goes along.

[xkenx]

27. Sarah, I wasn't talking about Rethugs trashing Hillary, I was, in reply to #4, pointing out

problems of Hillary's own making, i.e. being a human weathervane, rather than taking principled leadership stands.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

28. Oh ok. I'm sorry. I'm so frustrated. :( nt

[juajen]

39. In a recent poll (someone please correct if wrong), I believe

she was voted the most respected woman in the U. S. This may have been international, I just can't remember. Does anyone have a link?

[Tellurian]

42. Who said you have to do anything?

Hillary and Bill are dependant on no one, lets get that straight right now. OTOH- Obama is criticized at home for not putting away the butter and his wife makes it common knowledge as a huge weakness, he's to be trundled after like a child. Ick- not very presidential to me!

We all are aware, Hill and Bill are seasoned payers who can deal with the onslaught of Republican nightmares..Obama has no experience whatsoever dealing with RW attacks.. Rest assured if he's the nominee, he'll fold like a cheap suit. He has no past history of dealing with adversarial issues except with 'silence', reminiscent of the poorly run Kerry Campaign's response to the Swift Boat attacks. Obama's response to incriminating accusations is silence, as seen here with his Rezko dilemma.. http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=145

[rodeodance]

65. and she seems to come out well, even with the continuous thashing year after year.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. Unfortunately, I have to agree with you.

Obama still has the ability to pull this off. He just needs to go in there and pretend he's already lost and let us know what's really on his mind.

Hillary? If she debates with that raised face of smugness, I'm going to slap her. I like her better when she isn't so confident.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

23. I love Obama and Sen. Clinton. I just don't love the ignorance of this country....

The majority here are uneducated, love sensationalism, are racist and sexist, and just stupid. And this is what these people will be campaigning to. :-(

[Truth2Tell]

36. wow

lots of new posters this week with that exact message.

echo, echo, echo.

[William769]

6. The best is yet to come!

You go girl!

[tridim]

8. Why do I still not know anybody who supports Senator Clinton?

Besides the handful of supporters on DU?

Something doesn't add up here.

[SaveElmer]

10. If it makes you feel better....

I know literally dozens of people planning on voting for her...

[ElizabethDC]

11. Me too.

I also know a lot of supporters of Obama and Edwards, and a few for Richardson, Biden and Dodd. Maybe I just deal with a good cross-section of Democrats? The number of people I know supporting each candidate pretty much reflects the polls.

[Alamom]

13. Same here. eom

[tridim]

15. Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you over 50?

I'm trying to figure out where her support is, because it's not in my age group. Everyone I know either supports Gore, Obama and Kucinich. Clinton isn't even on the radar.

[ElizabethDC]

17. Hillary's support isn't in just one age group

I'm in my 20s and I know loads of people my age who support her. My mom's in her 50s and she and a lot of her friends (in their 40s and 50s support her too). Most, though not all, Hillary supporters I know are women. She also has a lot of support among Latinos.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

57. HRC actually leads among young voters, contrary to popular belief nt

[SaveElmer]

19. Nope...

Mid-40's...and I know people from 18 to mid 70's supporting her...

Including the "good 'ol boy" fedex driver that delivers to my store every day...

[emilyg]

32. I know a lot of people

different ages - who support her

[xkenx]

14. That's 'cause polls this far out are mainly about name recognition and

tap lots of people who will never show up to vote in a primary. Hillary's highest polling numbers come from the least educated of the public, those most likely to get their info from 20 second soundbites on the eleven o'clock news (or more likely as a brief interruption to the latest news about Paris Hilton at al). If we assume that DUers and DKOSers and the like represent active, knowledgeable Dem. primary voters, it's easy to see that MSM polls are way off base from reality. Polls here and at DKOS consistently have Hillary in the mud, with the leaders being Gore and Clark who aren't even running yet. And Edwards, Obama, and just about everyone else poll better than Hillary. DU and DKOS are open forums, and you can't "stuff" the ballot box. So where are Hillary's primary votes? As a previous poster said, go out on the streets and chat up Democrats, including Democrat women, and her support is lukewarm at best. There has to be passion to bring out large numbers to vote.

[Laurab]

16. Same here - and I know quite a few people

almost everyone I talk to on a regular basis is a dem, I have one friend who is a repuke, but we never talk politics EXCEPT we talked one time about the candidates, and she didn't like the repuke candidates OR the democratic ones, but seemed really interested in Obama for some reason. Hillary, though, was like the devil to her.

Not a single dem I've talked to supports Hillary, in fact, the reaction is almost always negative, even among people I had thought might support her.

I agree something doesn't add up. The only thing I can think of is republicans who want Hillary to be our candidate so badly, are being polled.

[SaveElmer]

20. You know my parents once told me...

That everyone they knew voted for McGovern...so how come he didn't win? Depends on who you hang with...

[Laurab]

31. I'm guessing, although I don't know for sure

that you may be a volunteer for Hillary or working for her in some way - something that would make you come into contact with other people who support her. If I'm mistaken, please correct me. I'm guessing you "hang with" other Hillary supporters because of your work on her behalf, so obviously you would know people who support Hillary. I'm talking about people not involved in campaigns, the average "joe six pack", or just people who are democrats but just plain don't want Hillary to win.

I just had a phone conversation with my brother who lives in Kentucky (I live in NY state), in which both of us agreed that we know a lot of people, and NO ONE who supports Hillary. A lot of Democratics - not just people, but democratic voters. I also have a brother in Boston - same thing, one in California, same thing. My daughter in NYC - same thing. We can't understand how between all of us, we don't know one person who supports her. Not one.

I don't mean to bash Hillary - she's not my first, second, or even third, choice, I admit, although of course I will vote for her if she wins the primary. I just don't understand why, in a huge circle of people, not one of us knows anyone who supports her. I do believe republicans would like nothing better than for her to win the primary, and that may be skewing poll results.

I know you disagree, but it just seems odd to me. Very few people I talk to have even picked a candidate yet, but they are all sure they don't want it to be Hillary.

[ElizabethDC]

34. I don't work or volunteer for Hillary

and the majority of people I know support Hillary, though I know supporters of every candidate (except for Kucinich and Gravel). It just depends on the kind of people you know, I guess. :shrug:

[SaveElmer]

35. I don't work for the Hillary campaign...

However I am very active in the local Democratic Party in general...and so come into contact with Democrats of every stripe...

I run into many Hillary Supporters through those connections, as well as just in the normal course of the day...people walk up to me at random when they see my bumpersticker....

I live in Virginia...

[xkenx]

44. Exactly what I've experienced.

[ShortnFiery]

24. I just love the all Caps. That's what I admire about HRC's followers ...

They're TRUE UNITERS as an offshoot to their swaggering bravado style: Bringing together the DLC out-casted liberal base. :wow: But unlike the past two Presidential General Elections, Nader choosing to run may be the least of the Hilarities' problems. :evilgrin:

[ElizabethDC]

38. The all caps comes from the original headline at the link. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

40. Ok, it's only that I much prefer "the soft sell" ... best regards

:-)

[ElizabethDC]

43. Well, we'll do our best to accomodate you in the future.

:eyes:

[ShortnFiery]

45. Thank-you, seeing all caps is a little testing on the eyes and can convey bluster

:hi:

[ElizabethDC]

46. That's all well and good, but don't shoot the messenger

If the original headline is all-caps, do we need to tone it down for your eyes?

[ShortnFiery]

47. I'm only referencing "perception." Most M$M headlines are not in all caps. Just suggesting. n/t

[ElizabethDC]

48. All I'm saying is, take your complaints to the folks at the NY Post

don't blame the Hillary supporters on DU.

[ShortnFiery]

49. Ok, I guess you missed my true, non-mean spirited input - I was trying to help. n/t

[ElizabethDC]

50. Yeah, I really don't think your initial comment on the subject was really intended to be helpful.

But that's just the way I read it.

[ShortnFiery]

52. I'm sorry for I was attempting to make amends. Some of us consider HRC supporters far too zealous.

That is, I was suggesting, IF you wished to bring more people in, it may be useful to not use all caps in your headline.

[ElizabethDC]

53. And some of us consider HRC haters far too zealous.

Which is why I doubt the nature of your intentions. But, once again, the OP did the correct thing by posting the headline as it was originally written, and so you blame HRC supporters in general.

[Alamom]

62. Another suggestion, not to anyone in particular since it's happening quite frequently of late.

If anyone wishes to be taken seriously, it could be very useful not to invite in and side with obvious trolls just to be able to bash & trash candidates more zealously.
That is what they're here to do. We really shouldn't help them.


Again, just a suggestion, as the cemetery grows at an alarming rate.


edgr

[ShortnFiery]

63. I'm honestly trying to turn a new leaf and I promise to look closer at the article before countering

That is genuine.

I've been way too vitriolic here and for that I'm truly sorry. :hi:

[Alamom]

55. Thanks Elizabeth, I copied & pasted the story exactly as it was written.

I always do. I forget every little thing that can be criticized, will be. Even by those who claim repeatedly, they never bash DU members .........






edgr

[ShortnFiery]

59. You are 100% correct, I should have known that it was the NY Post by the headline itself.

I was wrong and extend a genuine apology. :hi:

[John Q. Citizen]

25. The New York Post? Murdocks rag? Oh my.....n/t

[Bullet1987]

29. Polls at this point are meaningless...

I also doubt they had an undecided option as well. This is also misleading, because many people haven't even made up their minds yet. Actually, I'm willing to say the MAJORITY of potential voters haven't made up their minds.

[John Q. Citizen]

30. I agree with you. Plus Ruppert Murdoch is a Hillary contributor......hmmm....

No debate on FOX because they are rightwing scum owned by rightwing scum Murdock, but hey, I'll take the dough.

[nealmhughes]

51. "POLL VAULT!" I do find that a witty headline, odd for the Post, not up to

"headless body found in topless bar," though.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

54. The key finding: only 40% in this poll believe Obama has enough experience to be prez

If this is the case among Democrats, how low must the overall number be? If BO makes it to the general election this will be his biggest hurdle--and it is quite a steep one.

[The Ghost]

60. POLLS MEAN NOTHING

NOTHING!!!!!! How many times does everyone need to be reminded?!?! John Kerry was toast one day before Iowa, and he won the whole thing. Please stop paying attention to these polls and think they mean anything and then use it to slam other candidates, its embarrassing to read.

I will say one thing, I'm torn between Hillary, Obama and Dodd. Every day my view changes, and I can almost tell I am one of the people who will make up their mind in the voting booth. If I was polled today, I would probably go with Hillary, but again, I haven't made up my mind, and wont until voting day probably. There are a LOT of people like that. And I will bet thats what shows up in these useless polls.

Lastly, I live here in Massachusetts, live in Boston, work in Watertown, both ultra-liberal. And guess what? I don't know anyone that would even think of voting for Hillary. All my friends are liberal, all my co-workers are liberal, and I work at a place where I can talk politics. No one wants to vote for her, or will. Why? They either hate her, or they know another 10 people who hate her and thus they wont vote for her due to fear of losing the general election. If shes gonna have trouble winning in Massachusetts, I don't know what hope she has. Is this un-warranted? Perhaps, cause I like her tremendously, and not sure why people hate her so much. When I ask people, more than anything its just a vibe, theres something about her that turns people off.

Ultimately it will come down to who her opponent is, and the electoral college. But do we really want that? Sounds like Bush III, and yeah having the country instantly divided again with a squeaker election and 1/2 the country already HATING their president. The thought of more divisive hatred in this country just scares me.

[Tellurian]

64. Having a Repig president for four more years scares me more....