So much for splitting the anti-Kerry vote, right Clark Dems?

[funky_bug]

For days and days prior to the TN primary, we Clark supporters frequently received this message from certain other supporters:

"You're splitting the anti-Kerry vote! You need to get behind *name deleted* so he can have a chance to take the lead away from Kerry."

Well, we're out. Judging by tonight's percentages in NV and DC, I'd say we were splitting a vote, but it wasn't anti-Kerry, that's for sure.

So, Clark dropped out, and no one is even close to Kerry's percentages. I for one, feel vindicated.

Self-righteous post thus endeth. Carry on!

[NV1962]

1. Say, who's that handsome fella on the left of that pic? ;-)

[funky_bug]

2. Ain't he though?

Still gives me the warm and fuzzies! (Makes me like Kerry better too.)

[juajen]

35. Everytime I see him now, I tear up

I can't believe he's out. It breaks my heart. I don't dislike Kerry, but I will vote for Kucinich in the Louisiana primary. Clark could have won this state. I'm not sure why he's out and not Dean or Edwards. Everything seems a little flat now. Guess I'll feel better later. It was nice seeing Kerry so respectful to him. He deserved so much better from everybody. It's funny, when he first got in the race, all I heard was he was a corporatist and a DLC plant. Now I'm reading that Kerry is the plant and the DLC favorite. How could they have so many favorites?

That said, I will support Kerry in any way I can if he gets the nomination, I think. I will be anxiously waiting for the naming of his VP. Secretary of State would be ok for Clark, but I would certainly need assurance that our General is being treated very fairly. Guess we still have a way to go. I very much wanted none of them to drop out. Haven't seen this much excitement in the democratic party and in the country for quite a while, and we have Dean, Clark, Gephardt, Lieberman, Braun, Edwards, Kerry, Sharpton and Kucinich to thank for this. We do need to keep it up to help energize the vote in the fall. The defeat of this administration is paramount.

[madmax]

3. Love the pic

These guy's will kick some serious butt ;)

[MurikanDemocrat]

4. Yup. The Clark support has mostly gone to Kerry

Guess that "other" theory went down the shitter.

Some people are not yet willing to accept that their candidate is simply not the choice of most people, no matter how narrow the field gets.

[funky_bug]

6. I've argued this time and again

If you cannot stand out in a crowd of more than two people, then you do not have "charisma." Thinning the field only makes the true charismatic individuals stand out all that much more.

Again - sweet, sweet vindication.

[Bread and Circus]

27. I kinda predicted this would happen.

[funky_bug]

28. Really?

Can you give me some numbers, so I can play the lottery? I need some more money to donate to Kerry's campaign. I really rocked the savings account on Clark...lol

[Leilani]

5. I always knew Clark's supporters weren't splitting votes

& that his votes would go to Kerry.

A lot of us had national security & foreign policy at the top of our list, & kerry is the only one who meets that requirement.

[democratreformed]

7. An analysis of county results in TN shows very clearly where he was

drawing support from - hint: it wasn't John Edwards. In the counties that we worked very hard in, we were able to pull from Kerry to overtake Edwards but still not enough to overtake Kerry himself.

[funky_bug]

8. Nice to have some validity added to my theory

But OOPS... did I somehow accidently imply Edwards? Shame on me.

[Dookus]

9. Not only that...

Clark supporters want a real liberal in office, not a self-described centrist.

[Adelante]

10. It blows my mind

How few people here get this elemental factor in Clark's running in the first place and now endorsing Kerry. National security, foreign policy. It had to be Clark or Kerry all along.

[SW FL Dem]

34. Jersey you beat me in posts in less than a week

[uconnyc]

11. It's too late

Kerry has grabbed too many headlines already. Clark's late witdrawl makes no difference for the remaining candidates.

Clark supporters get over it - Kerry, Dean and Edwards flatout beat you, two of them on "your own turf."

By the way if Dean or Edwards had withdrawn after NH, I think Clark would have done very well on the 3rd and the 10th. Similarly if Clark had withdrawn it would have helped the remaining candidates.

[funky_bug]

14. Sour grapes make "whine"

Um... Clark beat Dean and Edwards on more than one occasion. By your statement, Clark dropping out made no difference because Kerry had already grabbed the headlines, so saying Clark would have done well if the situation were somehow different, negates much of your protest.

[stickdog]

12. Of course, Clark's shotgun endorsement of Kerry had

nothing whatsoever to do with this, right?

[Sensitivity]

15. Hey, Let's give Kerry a little credit. 63% in Nevada. Wish we had half

[funky_bug]

19. Thanks!

Great showing tonight, btw! For what it's worth, I do NOT want Dean out of this race at all. I will be absolutely heartbroken if the rumors flying around are true.

[polpilot]

17. TWO pro-war DLC candidates. Take that Bush!! We're more war than u.

Dean '04...The Anti-Iraqi War...Anti-DLC..Anti-Establishment candidate

[JohnKleeb]

22. Then why did Dean ask Clark to be his VP?

BTW anti establishment people generally arent head of the Dem governors and anti-DLC? he was a member for years. Hes just not listed as one because hes not an elected official. Just sayin.

[funky_bug]

25. 3 points, nuthin' but net.

Nice response, sir!

[funky_bug]

18. No clue

But if you'd been here the night he dropped out, not too many people were thinking kindly of Edwards, that's for sure.

I'd start a poll to answer your question, but I think the polls from NV and DC answer it sufficiently. Hell, even DEAN and SHARPTON beat Edwards.

[janx]

21. What happened with Edwards then?

Did I miss something?

[funky_bug]

23. Sunk like a rock

Take a look at the results thread. He was beat in both states by your boy. He took 3rd in one, 4th in the other.

[Adelante]

13. Here are the numbers

Kerry 2,252 63% 6
Dean 601 17% 2
Edwards 373 10% 0
Kucinich 241 7% 0
Sharpton 25 1% 0

Kerry knocked all of them put together straight out of the park.

Did anybody hear on CNN that campaign Dean's staff is quitting? I sort of thought I heard it, but I was in another room.

[maddezmom]

41. wow, another blow out

haven't heard anything about Dean staff?

[JI7]

16. there was some misunderstanding for some

isn't there a difference between being for someone, in this case, for clark. and being anti kerry ? i know some clark supporters who will still vote for him in the primary, or write his name in the primary. for them it's about voting for the candidate they want. it has nothing to do with kerry.

as for clark's endorsement of kerry it had much to do with clark just liking him and them being friends. it was the same with gephardt. if it was kerry who asked clark if he would endorse him it wouldn't have been a difficult thing to do.

[funky_bug]

20. For some...

anti-Kerry means no more than "You're beating MY guy." While some deal specifically with the issues, the venom appears to come from the fear of defeat. (I know, I've been there, and I'm going on record as officially apologizing for being a close-minded little twit.)

Rock on, Kerry.

[NV1962]

24. anti-Kerry means no more than "You're beating MY guy."

Ding-ding-ding!

Yup, that's been much of my sentiment too.

Now, I'm looking forward to seeing a strong nominee getting ready to oust Bush, and do a big-time happy dance.

I'm practicing moves here, see:

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Go Kerry!

[funky_bug]

26. You wanna see "strong?"

Go to Kerry's website and watch his Valentine's Day message to Bush. I swear, I was cheering... and I said I'd be no Kerry cheerleader, but oh MAN did he kick it to Bush!

[BeyondGeography]

30. He was strong at the JJ tonight as well

Kerry will pour his heart and soul into this campaign. I'm looking forward to it.

[NV1962]

37. I didn't mean individually strong

Honestly, I think the Fab Four are all strong candidates who campaign well. By strong I meant widely backed, and with cross-over appeal.

[Leilani]

29. Right

I am still a Wes Clark supporter, & that will not change.

But I am in no way anti-Kerry.

And if Wes had to drop out, the only person he could endorse was Kerry, because of Foreign policy & National security experience. It's also a plus for me that Kerry served in Vietnam, unlike Dim Son.

But I was not such a fickle supporter, that I can now say I love John Kerry, because I don't. My loyalty is to Wes Clark.

Does this make sense?

[funky_bug]

33. Rings familiar

I'm in that same boat, Leilani. I am still so very much pro-Clark, that it is tough to transfer those emotions to another candidate. I have an ideological affinity with Kucinich, a fondness for Howard Dean, and a respect for John Edwards (though as my post indicates, I'm not too crazy about some of his supporters here at DU.)

It's hard to just say, "Oh well, okay I support Kerry now." I will definitely vote for him in November, and that's a far cry from how I felt about him a few months ago... but I still love my Wes, and I don't feel a lot of passion toward Kerry... but I am growing in that direction more and more everyday, as I ALLOW myself to learn about him, and look at him without judgement.

[neverforget]

38. It is tough to transfer those emotions to another candidate! I will

be voting in the May primary here in Oregon but will still vote for Clark. After that, I'm behind Kerry or whoever the nominee is 100%. Clark was the first candidate I'd ever given any money too and I still want to be able to say I voted for the guy I gave money too.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Adelante]

32. What do you say, GROVELBOT?

Tell these cheapskates to get the hell up top and give me money.

[John_H]

36. Clark sealed it air tight for Kerry when he dropped out.

[PurityOfEssence]

39. Having to fight for survival in the South, Edwards couldn't be elsewhere

Talk about unscientific speculation. Here, think about this: because of Clark's deliberate targeting of Edwards--absolutely fair, mind you, and not something I resent--neither was able to campaign in Michigan, Washington, DC, Nevada or other places. Just because Kerry still holds sway in states where Edwards wasn't able to really hustle is also a measure of Edwards being tied down elsewhere.

Sure, add Clark's and Edwards' numbers in Virginia together, and Kerry still wins, but the same can't be said in Tennessee. Do that there and Kerry loses by ten points.

Clark hung tough, and it's a toss-up whether he should have dropped after Oklahoma; admittedly, it's tough to drop right after winning, even if by less than half of a percentage point.

I do fault him deeply and to the core of his character for the brazen lies about the tax cut votes, and the fact that he wouldn't even answer Edwards' rebuttal of that, instead heaping skewed statistics and more lies to hammer home a win at all costs. That was a truly ugly moment of the campaign. Lieberman may have gotten nastier, but he wasn't lying. The same goes for Gephardt. Only Dean has stooped as low so far.

Yes, Clark was a spoiler. I don't think he was trying to be; I think he was trying to win, and recognized that Edwards was an immediate competitor. Edwards could have done much better in Michigan if he only could have gotten there, but in light of the dynamic he was facing, he probably made the right move by slugging it out in the south. It's undeniable that his inability/unwillingness to get to some of these other states hurt him, and that is an obvious "splitting of the vote" result of Clark's actions.

[DjTj]

40. I never thought Clark was taking away Edwards votes...

...and I even started a thread about it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=264503

I'm pretty sure Clark support is split between wanting a Southerner, an outsider against the war, someone with military experience, and wanting a real experienced leader.

The voters who wanted a Southerner went to Edwards, the people who wanted an outsider went to Dean, the military people went to Kerry, and those who wanted a real experienced leader are floating free and may have followed Clark to Kerry now. The truth is, Edwards probably already had a lot of those Southerner votes so I would expect other candidates to get a bigger bounce.

Being a loyal Democrat myself, it's hard for me to see what would be driving anti-Kerry movement on the ground, but I think some people take this whole primary too personally.

I believe every one of John Edwards' votes is from a person that believes in him and a better vision for the future of America. As he likes to say, he believes in us and I certainly believe in him. While many of Kerry's votes now are from people who have never heard him speak more than 10 seconds in a TV commercial, I believe that a majority of Edwards and Dean supporters have probably heard their candidates speak or at least have been convinced by someone who has.

If there was any detriment to Edwards, it was the crowded field of candidates obscuring his message. However, that phase of the campaign is already far behind us because in this front-loaded schedule, there is simply no time to get your message out if you haven't done it in the early states.

I actually kind of wish Clark campaigned harder in Virginia because I know he would have brought down Kerry's numbers by stealing away the military vote in the Tidewater.