My Dad walked out of church

[Clintonista2]

He lives in Kansas, and is very active in the church there. Anyways, they tried to show some video (during the service!!) about how stem cell research is evil, blah blah blah, and he got up and walked out. He's pro-choice, pro-equality, etc, and just wants to practice his faith once a week without having fascist political ideas shoved down his throat.

[Mythsaje]

1. Good for him! n/t

[Falconlights]

2. My Dad Walked Out of Church

Yep. Good on your father...there are still, thankfully, Christians of real conscience.

[Hissyspit]

7. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[UrbScotty]

39. Indeed it is good to know we still have such Christians.

Welcome to DU! :-)

[redqueen]

45. Hi Falconlights!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[calimary]

74. Agreed completely! And Welcome to DU!

Great to have you here!

Now, get to work!

[AZBlue]

83. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[firefox_fan]

91. Not even a matter of real conscience...

Just a matter of having some brain.

[Jack Rabbit]

101. Welcome, Falconlights

[Hekate]

3. That took guts. It's really hard to do that. nt

[snowbear]

4. Tell your Dad that your proud of him!

What a very special person he must be ~~~~~~~

[swimmernsecretsea]

5. He sounds like a brave, intelligent man. I know you're proud of what he did. nt

[Lasher]

6. Our Sunday school class discussed prayer in school

Almost everyone strongly believed it should be permitted. I bit my tongue. In the past I have been able to make some progress with this bunch. In one of those cases the topic was stem cell research.

[Cronus Protagonist]

8. Prayer in school is absolutely permitted and protected by 1st amendment

Prayer by school officials as course content and/or as part of their duties is not. Anyone can pray in school, college, univerity, malls, streets, churches, anywhere. What's illegal and also morally wrong is for the government to promulgate any religion to unwilling citizens.

So tell your friends at church that their kids can pray away in school... any time outside of the school class hours when everyone is there to learn about secular pursuits. And even then, a silent prayer to one's self is perfectly allowed and in order if someone so chooses.

I'm so glad to have solved that problem for your friends. Now they can move on to important things like the circumcision debate :P

[Lasher]

9. You can't pour tea into a full cup.

Like I said I decided to take a pass on this one. I'll fight another battle on a different day. Coming attraction: The Bible does not mention abortion anywhere, even though it was practiced when the text was written. The belief that abortion is murder is not supported in any way by the scriptures. I might have to fight my way out of there but I can defend this position.

[Cronus Protagonist]

10. That's an interesting fact

I'll keep that one in memory for future use :)

[deaniac21]

38. You can if the cup is full of air.

[mnhtnbb]

68. The Bible DOES mention abortion. Read Numbers 5:11-31

This is the story of an abortion ritual given by The Lord to Moses.
Some editions of The Bible will provide annotation indicating that if a woman is pregnant when this ritual is administered, she may miscarry.

Read it carefully and ask yourself the obvious questions.

My personal interpretation of the story is that it gives a man an out for not having to raise the child of another man who has had an adulterous relationship
with his wife.

[theHandpuppet]

98. It also mentions infanticide.... more than once

Infanticide was another threat Jehovah liked to hang over people's heads. Sometimes he ordered his lackeys to do the deed, whilst other times he preferred to do it himself.

There are lots of interesting ideas promoted in the Bible -- like slavery, stonings, beating your children, et al. How come they don't advocate those in Sunday School?

[Lasher]

100. They don't advocate these things because they say that was uner The Law

And since Christ came, they say, these things no longer apply. But this position is not easily defended since some things in the Old Testament, like the Ten Commandments, are heavily endorsed.

[LiberalFighter]

16. Yes, wacko fundy Christians should be re-circumcized

[rfranklin]

63. You can even pray during class...you just can't do it in a loud and...

disruptive manner. What they want is religion--their religion--to be sanctioned by the school system. Yet they would not want the Koran to be taught at school. You're dealing with people who do not subscribe to science or logic or fairness or democracy and certainly not the Constitution of the United States of America.

[rucky]

49. You must be in the gifted Sunday school class.

When I went to Sunday school, we sang songs and made puppets.

[Kixel]

56. LOL!

Thanks for the giggle!

[Lasher]

99. Judging by the content of your contribution here you must have attended recently. (EOM)

[sellitman]

11. You have a great Dad

:thumbsup:

[monmouth]

12. Maybe the IRS should be informed....eom

[Clark2008]

23. No - they can do that.

They just can't "campaign" for any person of a specific party, but they can "campaign" for or against "issues."

The IRS wouldn't care.

But, even if that church were campaigning for a specific person, the BushCo. IRS wouldn't do jack about it unless they were campaigning for a Democrat. :(

[jtrockville]

13. Your dad is a smart man. Good on him.

[babylonsister]

14. YEAH-H-H-H, DAD!! nt

[Ian David]

15. Everyone who doesn't believe in stem cell research should sign a pledge...

not to ever benefit from stem cell therapy or research.

That includes the politicians who have voted against it.

[raccoon]

32. And when one day, they (or a loved one) develop Alzheimer's,

Parkinson's, suffer from a spinal cord injury, they will bitterly regret their stupidity.

[closeupready]

43. Exactly. Seems with some of them, everything is always about THEM.

Meanwhile, who knows how many people could benefit from stem cell research. By the time these people realize how stupid they were, it will be too late for those who could have been saved.

[Totally Committed]

17. Go, Dad!

Good for him!!!

TC

[Vidar]

18. Applauding your dad.

[realbluesky]

19. Hopefully he will never go back

Religion teaches people to believe and not be skeptical. The republicans have a field day leading religious people around by the nose with every hot-button issue. Even when it's clearly against their own religious teachings. Then they laugh at and ridicule the "believers" as a bunch of dumb sheep.

[whopis01]

37. exactly. n/t

[pstans]

20. My church talked about health care for everyone, a living wage, and taking care of the env.

My church talked about health care for everyone, a living wage, and taking care of the environment. About every other week our pastor has a progressive message, it is great.

[raccoon]

33. What is the denomination of your church? Unitarian, I would guess. nt

[LordJFT]

35. sounds like it

haven't been to church in ages but i used to go to a Unitarian church

[pstans]

40. Not Unitarian, Lutheran

[Bucky]

55. What the heck kind of Christian worries about alleviating poverty and curing the sick?

That's just crazy talk.
"Father, forgive them. They are boneheads."

[Clintonista2]

61. Catholic, nt.

[Jackpine Radical]

75. Lots of liberal Protestant churches are OK on these issues.

United Church of Christ, lots of Methodists, some Episcopals & Presbyterians, etc. come to mind. The Episcopal church is starting to break into pieces over gays in the ministry & some other social issues.

[Mad_Dem_X]

21. Bravo to your Dad! n/t

[Clark2008]

22. About seven years back, I walked out of two churches

in just a few months because both were turning into one long campaign for GW Shrub. One was a Catholic church, the second was non-denominational, which I thought would be a little more liberal. Wrong.

I've not been back to church in years as a result. I've taken to teaching my son the Bible at home and he goes to church occasionally with friends.

It really bites to be afraid to go to church because you're concerned someone might try to talk politics. It didn't used to be that way.

[truedelphi]

51. THe Catholic Church *officially* has come out against the war BUT

The individual churches seem to feel that our troops are on the side of Righteousness and justice.

I can't stomach it - plus the repetitive liturgy of "Forgive me my sins" hurt my head too (I mean, at eight in the morning - I really haven't sinned all that much yet!)

[Jackpine Radical]

76. Yeah, but all those things you did Saturday night...

[Prophet 451]

54. In my experiance

"non-denominational" = fundementalist = far-right Republican.

Granted, that's just personal experiance.

[knitter4democracy]

71. Non-denoms are often a blend.

Fundamentalists, Pentacostals, and Evangelicals all mix in the non-denom churches. It really depends on the pastor.

[JerseygirlCT]

62. "non-denominational" and "liberal" rarely go together nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Your dad is awesome

[bigwillq]

25. Good for Dad.

:bounce: :hi:

[Joe Chi Minh]

26. That's the way! Pick 'n' Mix! Can't beat it. Customised to our personal tastes.

You have to pay a lot of extra money for that with an automobile, but it doesn't cost a dime with a religion personalised to taste. Go for it!

Did you know that the derivation of the word, "religion" is the latin verb, "ligere", which means to bind? The Church is supposed to be a discplined army, not a supermarket or a funfair.

With such an execrable lack of a fully-funded government health service, it's a little more understandable that Americans should be tempted to "cut corners", but I don't think it's something to shout from the roof-tops.

[ordinaryaveragegirl]

27. Go Dad!!!!

WTG to him for standing up (literally!) for what he believes. Faith - regardless of beliefs - should be a practice, not an agenda!

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

[wryter2000]

28. A friend of mine walked out of his church

When they passed out ballot guides.

[roguevalley]

29. your dad is my hero. My mom and dad got up in church and

walked out when they said not to vote for JFK because he was a catholic. they are my heroes too.

[zulchzulu]

30. I've walked out before as well...you have to

When visiting friends in St. Louis a while back, I got railroaded into going to church. The priest started talking about abortion and how it was evil and yaddie yaddie yah yah...I stood up, gave the thumbs down to my friends and walked the hell out of there. The stares as I left were hilarious!

Kudos to your dad for doing what he did. He unfortunately may have some repercussions from the insane villagers in his church. He can always ask them when they want to ban in-vitro fertilization since so many embryos are "tossed out" on a daily basis. Some of them are black, yunno...

[lpbk2713]

31. I hope he returns.

The church body will never change if they know there are no differing opinions amongst them.

And I commend him for his public stance. That took real courage.

[Arugula Latte]

42. My dream is that everybody stops going to church.

They're a big waste of space and resources, if you ask me. Which of course, nobody does ... :hide:

[Fearless]

47. I won't ask, but I'll answer...

Agreed.

[ThatsMyBarack]

59. Welcome to DU, nothingtoofear!

:hi: :patriot:

[Fearless]

102. Thanks

:grouphug:

[AllieB]

60. There are quite a few Catholic Churches that have closed in MA

This is because of the pedophilia scandal. Unfortunately, the property is worth so much that developers turn them into condos or office space. I wish that they'd be remodeled into low-income, first time homebuyer units. At least that's a way to give back to the community,

[Skittles]

72. that was exactly my thought

the more people who walk out, the better

[raccoon]

34. Good for your dad! Rec'd. nt

[maximusveritas]

36. This is exactly what Obama was talking about

at the UCC conference. The Religious Right is hijacking religion for it's own politicial gain. Thankfully, true Christians like your dad are standing up to them.

[pacalo]

41. ^^^A big high-five^^^ for your dad!

And unbelievable that such fascist indoctrination is going on in churches these days.

[Redbear]

44. I've walked out as well.

Over creationist hogwash.

[thetaoofterri]

46. That takes courage

especially in the midwest and south. I'm a native Californian transplanted to Arkansas 14 years ago. Talk about culture shock. I attended church here for a while, but stopped because of the constant propaganda... anti-choice, anti-gay, pro-NRA ... it never stopped.

[Blue Gardener]

52. Pro NRA?

I don't recall where guns are mentioned in the bible. I used to visit my sister when she lived in Arkansas. Not someplace I would want to live. I'm really glad she moved back to Iowa.

[getmeouttahere]

79. Who says it has to be in the bible?

They just make shit up or distort the so-called word. A great example is this whole idea of America somehow being a "chosen" country or something. How could that possibly be interpreted from anything in the bible? I'm sure I don't have to mention (but will anyway) that the real point is that not everyone believes in a christian god or the bible. For many of us the bible is a great big book of amusing fairy tales.

[degreesofgray]

48. When I was a kid and went to church

I remember being forced to watch a series of James Dobson lectures, especially one on the supposed sins of masturbation. It was uncomfortable, embarrassing, and ridiculous, which is about how I feel about church nowadays.

[getmeouttahere]

80. OMFG, degreesofgray, I'm sorry!

That sounds like some sort of medieval torture! But, since we're now sanctioning torture...and Dobson's still around...

[northofdenali]

50. If we ALL did that, in ALL venues - we'll make a difference.

What a brave, intelligent man your dad must be. Once, when I was about 9 my dad berated his parish priest for speaking against "negros" and their presence in his (the priest's) church. I never forgot it. That was in 1963.

Terrific post, Lirwin, and I'm very glad to welcome you to DU.

[Mythsaje]

53. Hah!

With me, the trick is getting me to walk INTO a church.

Okay, so we hold our annual Witch's Ball at a progressive church here in Tacoma, and I run security, but that doesn't count. Really.

[JerseygirlCT]

57. Good for him! nt

[fazoolius_2006]

58. Good on him

houses of worship should not be used to promote political agendas.

[Maat]

67. And that's what Barry Lynn says ...

Barry's the executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State ( www.au.org ). He's both a lawyer and an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ. I'm a proud monthly donor, and I encourage all to donate to this fine organization that funds education, pertinent court battles, and watchdogs (they will monitor what key figures are doing from their pulpits - if they are violating the IRS code).

After having researched this matter for many years, I decided not to fund or participate in any church whose overall administrative body was not welcoming, affirming, open and inclusive of GLBT friends, who seemed to be a political machine for the Religious Right, was not fully supportive of reproductive rights, and who was openly supportive of the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq.

I steer my exploring friends to the local United Church of Christ, the local Church of Religious Science, the local Unity church, and, of course, MY church, the newly-formed, local Unitarian-Universalist community (we're working on becoming an official church).

My friends, Rev. J.T. and Rev. Merle (retired), are so pro-peace that they attend the local peace vigils. J.T. is a Methodist pastor. Rev. Merle is a retired Methodist minister who now is integral in forming our Unitarian-Universalist church.

And, most of all, I'm proud of your dad!

:hug:

[AnnieBW]

70. Rev. Lynn is speaking at our Pagan Religious Rights Rally

on July 4th. I was honored to meet him last year. He's a wonderful guy. If more Christians were like him, I probably would still be one. :D

[Maat]

92. Exactly (n/t)!

[juajen]

64. When the word is "your" it is personal possessive, i.e.,

"I have your pencil" "I will walk your dog." "Your father is brave."

If the word is "you're", it is a contraction of the word "you are", i. e., "If you are (you're) going to the store, please pick up some ice."

The Spelling Police

[karlrschneider]

65. Faith does not require a church.

Neither does basic human decency.

[Blue Fire]

66. I remember the day I walked out of my church....

and I haven't looked back at that silly superstition ever since. In fact, I even read the liturgy that Sunday morn. I was born and raised Lutheran (my Mom is as much a Democrat as she is a Lutheran, bless her heart!), but I always had these nagging doubts I won't bother you with here. But on that particular Sunday morning, after I stood in front of the congregation and read from the old testament, Pastor Paul began his sermon by supporting the week-old invasion of Iraq as the "right thing to do". I didn't have any idea he was sooooooo stupid!
But when he spoke his idiocy, the lights came on max lumen, and I stood up and walked away.
I don't assume to stand beside your dad, Lirwin2, as I am an atheist. But I understand his struggle to find common ground with his faith and organized religion's inherent political contradictions to progressive thinking. He is a good man. I hope he finds what he's looking for.

[AnnieBW]

69. Kudos to Dad!

I can't wait to see what happens to some of these anti-stem-cell people when THEY get Parkinsons, diabetes, etc. Will they refuse to take a cure made from embryonic stem cells?

[ChazII]

73. It is hard

to get up and walk out the FIRST time. I have walked out of several St. Stephen's services and skipped the Eucharist by just staying in my pew. People may comment at first but they respect my convictions.

[graywarrior]

77. My landlord just walked out of his baptist church because they were singing George Bush praises.

He told me he'd never go back even though they helped him through the death of his wife. They really pissed him off.

[NotGivingUp]

78. Good for him! nt

[Hand]

81. Props to your Pop!

A big hand :applause: from Hand! :yourock:

[pingzing58]

82. My parents are RC they're dyed in the wool democrats. They vote a straight party ticket - and then

afterwards go to confession with a sypathetic priest.

[Toasterlad]

84. As An Agnostic...

...I admire your Dad for his courage. It must be very difficult to take a stand at odds with what your church (basically, the support for your belief structure) is saying, especially in such a public fashion. He has my respect, and gratitude.

[rep the dems]

86. Welcome to DU, Fellow Pennsylvanian and Eagles fan!

:toast:

[Toasterlad]

87. Thank You!

:toast:

[rep the dems]

85. K&R! Even though you're a Clinton supporter

;-)

[TheFarseer]

88. We had stem cell garbage in our bulletin at church

I don't so much have a problem with the church presenting an issue as with how they bashed Nancy Pelosi to pieces in the article. It is entirely inappropriate for the church to take political sides.

[AtomicKitten]

89. Bravo for your father!!!!

Churches should not be proselytizing, at least not with tax-exempt status.

[jilln]

90. Isn't that to be expected?

I'm not Christian so I may be wrong, but isn't the idea that life begins at conception very basic to Christians? Therefore showing such a video would be within their beliefs. It's not a "fascist political idea" but one of the basic ideas of the church.

Obviously your dad should do whatever makes him comfortable but I don't understand why this was a surprise to him.

[Skittles]

94. but do they trash war with such gusto?

my guess would be a big fat NO

[Clintonista2]

95. There is nothing in the bible about when life begins

In fact, abortion was practised during the time of Jesus, and it isn't even mentioned in the bible.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

96. Maybe it does...

Genesis 2_7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Job 33_4: The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Ezekiel 37_5: Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live.

It has been suggested nothing in the bible indicates that a fetus is considered to be anything other than living tissue which does not become a living being until after it has taken a breath. ( link )

Just a thought.

[Doctor_J]

93. That church is trolling for Faith Based Bucks

Good on your dad.

[liberal N proud]

97. There have been times that I have considered it

Just getting up and walking out right in the middle of the propaganda.

I did stick it out and the radicals in the church have mostly left the church and it has returned "normal" with no political connotations.
But next year is an election year and who knows.

But I say good for your father for doing the right thing