Mormon church obtained Vietnam draft deferrals for Romney.

[Hart2008]

"As the Vietnam War raged in the 1960s, Mitt Romney received a deferment from the draft as a Mormon "minister of religion" for the duration of his missionary work in France, which lasted two and a half years.

Before and after his missionary deferment, Romney also received nearly three years of deferments for his academic studies. When his deferments ended and he became eligible for military service in 1970, he drew a high number in the annual lottery that determined which young men were drafted. His high number ensured he was not drafted into the military.

...

"I really don’t recall thinking about political positions when I was knocking at the door in France" as a missionary, Romney said. "I was supportive of my country. I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam.""

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/romney/articles/part1_side_2/

Can you say "chickenhawk"?

:puke::puke::puke::puke:

(edit to add quote.)

[eleny]

1. Buk-Bawk!

[HereSince1628]

2. The LDS church also encouraged military service for guys who didn't go on missions

Sort of a whacky mixed bag, although being a Romney certainly didn't hurt when a guy was looking for favors from LDS leadership.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. Help me, LDS folks

I thought it was mandatory for all Mormon men to be missionaries at some point in their life, unless they were physically or mentally unable to do so.

[HereSince1628]

16. Mandatory? Not.

Nor is it a requirement to get a Temple Recommend or for a Temple Marriage.
Obviously, promotion within the priesthood is greatly facilitated by this, but then being born in Deseret greatly facilitates that, too.

I came of age as LDS and was excommunicated so you might call me biased and out of date, but I know what I know.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. Hey, thanks for the information

I used to go to Nauvoo, which has free tours of the old houses the LDS folks had back then--and the guides all tried to let us know about their faith. I believe one person in a group asked about missionary work, and they admitted this was their missionary stint. From that encounter, I got the impression that missionary work was mandatory for all Mormon males. Thanks for the correct information.

[Radical Activist]

29. It was a little different then

than it is now. Not everyone was expected to go on a mission until sometime in the 70's. These days, I still wouldn't call it mandatory for men but its very strongly encouraged.

[BrotherBuzz]

15. I had a Morman dude in my army unit doing his mission work because.....

he didn't have enough money to afford his own mission. I don't think he converted one heathen from my unit, but he was a non-drinker, an ace on the pinball machine, and won a case of beer a month for his high score on the EM Club pinball machine; he gave the beer away to miscreants like myself.

[HereSince1628]

18. Probably not on a mission per se but rather proselytizing

Sharing the "truth" to bring people into the salvation of the faith is standard practice in many christion faiths, and as such isn't unusual.

But your "Mormon dude" may also have been a member of the "Seventy" the purpose of which is proselytizing.

[BrotherBuzz]

34. You may be right

He was, maybe, 26-28 and much older then the regular mission kids we see around town. I never heard of the "Seventy" nor the "Twelve" before. Weird.

[RadiDem]

3. Too bad! He could have converted the VC who he didn't kill

[MADem]

4. Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! I LOVE it!!!!!!!! nt

[MichiganVote]

5. Well that's it then. Next puppet prez. nominee by and for the republicans.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. good for him

I applaud anybody who managed to stay out of that ridiculous war.

[Hart2008]

11. I object to the hypocrisy, not avoiding the meat grinder.

I respect those who say they refused to fight for something they didn't believe was right.

I just object to those who very obviously dodged the draft and now want to send more troops into Iraq.

[MonkeyFunk]

17. But it doesn't sound like he dodged the draft at all

He got deferments for which millions of others got deferments, and when they ran out, he went into the pool and was lucky enough to draw a high number.

[DemBones DemBones]

36. Bill Clinton did the same. Having deferments and then a

high lottery number is not dodging the draft. It's being lucky.

Dodging the draft is something like having a phony medical excuse and being classified 4-F (perhaps like Saxby Shameless and the bad knee that kept him out of the draft but didn't stop him from jogging later.) Or getting married and having a baby just before the deferments for fathers ended. I think that's what Cheney did, for one of his seven deferments, anyway!

Edit: Much as it pains me to say it, Cheney was probably within the law. AFAIK, he didn't get any suspicious medical deferments. Student deferments were given to all students and the fatherhood deferment was given to all fathers up until 1968 or so.

[pnorman]

38. "Much as it pains me to say it, Cheney was probably within the law"

Almost ALL were "within the law", but not all were CHICKEN-HAWKS. And D*ck Cheney is one of most egregious examples of that breed. He's only "slightly" behind Ted Nugent in that category.

ON MILITARY SERVICE

He (Ted Nugent) claims that 30 days before his draft board physical, he stopped all forms of personal hygiene. The last 10 days, he ingested nothing but Vienna sausages and Pepsi; and a week before his physical, he stopped using bathrooms altogether, virtually living inside pants caked with his own excrement, stained by his urine. That spectacle won Nugent a deferment, he says. "... but if I would have gone over there, I'd have been killed, or I'd have killed, or I'd killed all the hippies in the foxholes...I would have killed everybody." - Detroit Free Press Magazine , July 15, 1990
http://www.nocompromise.org/news/000731c.html

pnorman

[Hart2008]

39. There were draft dodgers, and then there were draft dodgers…

I guess it all depends on what you consider draft dodging.

Just the facts:

Romney was born March 12, 1947.

“Romney registered with the Selective Service in April 1965 but was not considered readily available for military service until December 1970. His name was then put into the lottery based on an individual's birthday, and he drew the number 300 at a time when no one drawing higher than 195 was drafted. “

“By serving as a missionary and being given the deferment, Romney ensured that he would not be drafted from July 1966 until February 1969. Romney's draft record from the time describes him as "minister of religion or divinity student." Mayo said the church would have considered Romney a minister.”

OK, so parsing this:
From April 1965, when he registers with the Selective Service until July 1966, Romney is using a college deferment.

From July 1966 until February 1969, Romney is classified as a “minister” of the Mormon church, and therefore classified as 4-D, exempt, while traveling through Europe.

Romeny is married in 1968.

His first child is born when??????
(I looked in his bio and can’t find it.)

From February 1969 until December 1970, Romney is again using a college deferment.

By December 1970 Romeny is now 23+ years old, married with x number of children, and therefore could be relatively certain that he would not have been drafted. So he was must have known he was safe.

Draft boards varied from place to place, but in my neck of the woods it was possible to find out how likely one was to get drafted. (Mitt being the son of a former governor and sitting Nixon cabinet secretary undoubtedly had no trouble finding out his likelihood of getting drafted.) I know one man who was advised by his draft board to get married sooner than he had planned because otherwise he would most certainly get drafted otherwise. I’m sure Mitt knew he was in little jeopardy of getting his induction letter by December 1970, even though as the son of a prominent politician, the sitting secretary of HUD in the Nixon administration, he had little chance of ever going to Vietnam or seeing combat.

Many people will consider Mitt a draft dodger if this gets out since he was clearly avoiding the draft. As a former French colony, Mitt could have practiced his French in Vietnam very easily while doing his missionary work there. He very clearly choose a different route.

[jenmarie]

21. Right.

And in the end he was just lucky with the high lottery number. He wasn't trying to get out of it at that point or he wouldn't have received a number.

[lyonn]

7. A Mormon can go on a mission any time in their life.

Age has nothing to do with it as long as you can walk and talk. Another thing, a mission in France!!? Most go to South America and countries that are poor, at least the few that I knew of.

[LiberalFighter]

10. Just like the military the Mormons can grant a deferment

[Radical Activist]

30. Not a full time mission.

Mormon men would have to get a special exemption to go on a full time church mission if they're over the age of 26. At least today. I don't know if that was the case in the 60's.

[lyonn]

41. You could be right.

In the 1950's I was converted by 2 lady missionaries, one was at least 60 years old and the other in her 30's. My conversion didn't last very long. Mormons were very nice people, persuasive and I was young. Oh, and Hawaii was a favorite place to go on a mission! Most that I knew of went to countries South of the border.

[MasonJar]

8. Oh, sure, jerk! Then why did you NOT defer the "ministry" in France

until after the war? I am sure the French would have been quite grateful if you had.

[rurallib]

9. "longed in many resects to be in Vietnam" What bullshit! And his kids

pull the same horsecrap. "We can serve over here." what drivel. They are the fucking rich white cowards that start these fights and then hide behind mommy's skirt.

[elfin]

12. Those "missions" are oh so handy to keep out of harm's way,,,,,,

And there are many "missions" constructed to keep connected young men out of danger.

I know this because I volunteer at a place which recently (10 years ago at least) allowed Mormon guys to volunteer without proselytizing, but thereby fulfilling their duties in some way to the Mormon Mission. This was due to a Volunteer Corrdinator who happened to be Mormon --- but not "out there" as to her religious connection.

(An aside -- much to my amazement she became a very good friend of mine, and is in the Liberal Mormon camp. She thinks a lot of the stuff is crap, but likes the family orientation of the church, which fits in with her upbringing. Because I find her sly, caustic, hilarious and an all round wonderful person, I do not go face to face with her on her choice.)

They stick out due to their black pants/white shirts ---- but I must say, they do not try to sign people up to their cause, and are very good volunteers.

I suspect there are many posts such as this one designed to keep the Mormon most promising young men from being killed.

From what I have learned from knowing and observing my friend and her activities ---- do not discount their power. Do not discount their ever-cheerful "can do" approach to life - it is very appealing. Do not discount their money. Romney is just one example of a dedicated, intelligent and mission oriented Mormon, who has achieved amazing economic power. Their discipline is legendary - remember that the "Seven Habits of Successful People" - I may have the title wrong - was written by a Mormon.

I think they are nuts --- but if my friend were President, all would be fine. In the real world, she is progressive, practical, funny and someone who recalls with joy that she got on Air Force One with LBJ.

As couples, the pattern is to have one fully involved in the church as to fund raising etc. and one "out in the community" as a representative of their family/community values while bringing good things to whatever it is they are working on. This is in the hope that they will be so appealing that others will wonder why they are so happy and productive. Bingo --- another convert to tithe.

I wonder where Mitten's wife works/volunteers. Bet it is secular.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. Couldn't he have enlisted?

If not during his missionary work, afterwards? I believe it says he got deferments after his 2 1/2 years in France was done. I mean if he wanted to fell like "a part of the troops" couldn't he have just signed up?

[HereSince1628]

22. Do you know if Harry reid served in the military?

I looked for his biographical info a while ago and though he came of age in a time when the conscription was on-going there was no mention of military service.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. I don't know

I have no problem with folks who were against the war deciding to do everything they could to stay out- I have a lot of trouble with those who said they supported that war and yet chose not to serve.

[HereSince1628]

26. I have trouble with anyone who supports wars for others to fight

Old people starting wars for young people to die in has been the status quo way since the dawn of civilization. It's a shitty way to run a planet.

[Hart2008]

40. Actually, I think we have regressed.

In days of old the king led his troops on the battlefield, not from his palace. There was a fair chance the king himself might die in battle, and many did.

:kick:

[Joanne98]

19. BWAHAHAHA!

[yy4me]

24. I have no problem with those who stood their ground and did not

go to VietNam on the basis of their convictions. I have a big problem with Mitt Romney saying "I longed in many respects to be in VietNam etc..." What a load of baloney. Come to Massachusetts and ask anyone here if they believe that little wonder of a statement.

[ikojo]

25. Nothing other than another rich kid chicken hawk

It was perfectly fine for working class kids, with few other options of avoiding the draft, to get drafted; but nooooooo Prince Romney couldn't get his lilly white privileged butt over the 'Nam. That was for others to do.

Like Cheney and others in the Bush (mis)administration, he had other priorities: saving living and dead French people for the LDS.

I am way beyond sick of hearing how rich well connected kids like Romney and Bush avoided service in VietNam.

When will ALL share in the sacrifice during the country's wars? The risk of death should not fall primarily on the working class.

[HereSince1628]

27. Marion G .Romney was a LDS leader for about 47 years

I believe he may have been an uncle of Mitt.

[Vickers]

28. "I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country..."

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sutz12]

31. He could have volunteered as a military chaplain..no? nt

[murielm99]

32. I do realize the the LDS religion is not pacifist.

But the Society of Friends and Church of the Brethren helped many young men obtain conscientious objector status during Vietnam. The young men were not necessarily members of those two churches.

All the points of comparison do not add up, but is it so wrong for his church to help him with this, when other churches did it too?

[DemBones DemBones]

37. The Friends and the Brethren would help anyone -- the LDS would NOT

have sent a non-Mormon on a mission or helped him get CO status.

[beachmom]

33. Ah, thou chickenhawk. Apart from McCain, aren't they all? n/t

[ToeBot]

35. As much as I'd like this to be a case of special treatment...

every Mormon missionary would get the same deferment. And anyone the Mormons deemed worthy could be sent on a mission. Doesn't mean he's not a chickenhawk though.