The Clinton campaign gave "Obama memos" to NYT and are declining comment on how memos were obtained

[flpoljunkie]

Today's Times story and Caucus post both go in fairly great depth into the memos, which were sent to reporters by the Obama campaign, according to the report, "on what it demanded be a not-for-attribution basis." The Clinton campaign got a hold of them, the Times reports, and passed them on to their reporter. Memos in hand, courtesy of the Clinton campaign, the Times ran with them, quoting their allegations and less than graceful descriptions of Hillary.

The memos, and not any of the allegations they contained, have subsequently become the story.

The Clinton campaign, for now, is protecting its sources: a spokesman for the Clinton campaign declined to comment on how the memos were obtained.

http://www.observer.com/2007/obama-memos-ripple

[sandnsea]

1. Clinton media control

They can get anything they want into the media, any time they want.

So ask yourselves why they haven't gotten so many things into the media over the last 6 years.

[Captain_Nemo]

166. I think this was an example of Obama media control...scary.

[Jim Sagle]

168. The Clintons don't HAVE any media control, that's why.

In the primaries, Senator Clinton will be given anything she wants. If she gets the nomination, they'll gut her like a fish.

Same as they would do to any other Democrat.

[terisan]

2. Obama campaign gave anti-Clinton memos to reporters on a not-for-attribution basis ?

Why don't they just give out the information publicly-issue a press release. I hate all this secrecy stuff-reminds me of the Bush administration.

[sandnsea]

4. Happens every single day

Reporters get this stuff on background, etc. Reporters usually get it because they have a trusted relationship with either a campaign or an individual. They don't divulge their sources. Somebody put the Clintons ahead of their responsibility to their job. But then, that isn't unknown to happen either.

[Ethelk2044]

10. Correction Someone from Clinton camp read the link

[terisan]

21. I read it! States Obama campaign gave negative memos to reporters first (but wanted secrecy).

Theo OP only cited Clinton Campaign obtaining the memos and did not cite the report that Obama campaign first gave the negative information about Clinton to reporters and asked to not be identified as having done so.

If I had not read the article I would have concluded from the OP that the Obama campaign was blameless.
I think the op headline was misleading.

I'd like to see Obama take responsibility for the information his campaign provides to the media. The Clinton campaign is only keeping secret the id of their source and is taking responsibility for giving the information to the press.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

151. Who would have known Obama's "new politics" uses Cheney-type secrecy?

==Obama campaign gave negative memos to reporters first (but wanted secrecy).==

:rofl:

[Ethelk2044]

3. I am wondering how the Cintons got the memos in the first place

it does need to be investigated

[blm]

5. Embed operatives in every campaign - the Chris Lehane types who always

infect other Dem campaigns while really working for the Clintons.

[Ethelk2044]

6. then they need to find out who it is and if they can press charges

[ElizabethDC]

7. Is it illegal to pass a memo along?

Clearly someone gave it to the Clinton campaign - it could have been a reporter who obtained it, or it could have been someone on the Obama team. Leaks happen, and to the best of my knowledge, there are usually no legal charges involved.

[tammywammy]

9. Press charges for what?

This is typical politics.

[MGKrebs]

8. This may be the biggest non-story so far.

If the Obama people ONLY gave it to reporters, then perhaps a reporter gave it to the Clinton camp. Big scandal. Not. Did only paid Obama staff handle it? There may be a scandal there if so, but it's also possible that voluteers handled it at some point, which is much harder to control.

But in any case, why DID they not want to put their own name on it? If there was nothing wrong with it they should have. Clearly they believed it would be bad to have it attributed to the campaign. They thought it crossed SOME sort of line. A bad reflection on the campaign operation that they couldn't pull it off.
I like a lot about Obama as a candidate, but he is going to have to run a top-notch campaign operation to succeed. He's not quite there yet.

[AtomicKitten]

13. I agree.

:boring:

[avrdream]

79. "why DID they not want to put their own name on it? "

This is my question as well. I don't understand what is wrong with pointing out something that you BELIEVE is not right about an opponent. Maybe the perception of negative campaigning ..... yeesh.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

152. Obama wants to have it both ways

He wants the benefits of vicious attacks on HRC while publicly being able to preserve his carefully cultivating "new politics" and "different kind of politician" image. If we learned anything from this episode it is that Obama himself is guilty of what he loves to attack others for, i.e. "the smallness of politics." He is--*gasp*--a regular politician who uses traditional tactics. Hopefully, to avoid false advertising (a nice way of saying deception ;) ), Obama and his team will abandon the charade now.

[Bitwit1234]

11. So--- leaking memos is a good thing if it is your candidate

but if the memos are against your candidate...gasp. horrors...it's a bad thing. Sorta sounds like bush leaking info and then complaing about the info out there against him that he didn't leak.....tsk tsk

[BlueManDude]

12. I wish they'd both drop out. Two huge egos run amok. They're both Nov 08 losers.

[William769]

14. Theres a simple solution

If you don't want someone to use use something you said don't write it down. Just use some common sense.

And if your not ashamed of what you said, whats the problem?

Only a weasel would say something in private and not want the public to know.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

153. William's post: the audacity of common sense

Good post. No wonder no BO apologist has responded to it. ;)

[Adelante]

15. You know what, my friend?

They all do this stuff. They all pay oppo research staff just to do this stuff. I haven't seen a primary candidate ever who didn't. The only way to measure the success or failure of this type of thing is whether or not anybody knows who dunnit. In this particular caper, Obama's staff got bested by Clinton's staff. I think it needs to be sucked up and stepped over. That's my advice to Obama and his supporters.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

154. The difference is Obama claims he is above these kind of things

People aren't objecting to the offense but rather Obama's hypocrisy. He is guilty of the very sins he loves to vilify others for.

This is akin to someone who publicly works for MADD and then drives drunk each night...

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[William769]

17. "has never been in a battle before or come across true competition"

You must have slept through the 90's!

:rofl:

"Hillary Clinton has had a pretty easy political life"
You really crack me up!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Kingstree]

18. Remember in the 90's

Bill Clinton was President, not Hillary. She made no Presidental decisions, nor was she the leader of this country, she was just the first lady and his wife who put up with his infidelity and according to how she handled the Monica thing and all the other women, she didn't do such a great job. I think she's weak. This is different, this is for the Presidency and we as americans don't need someone who is weak minded or can't run a honest campaign or admit that her vote on Iraq was wrong. Remember that!

[William769]

19. I guess whitewater doesn't count?

Or travel gate? Or the death of Vince Foster? Need I go on?

ON EDIT: She stood by her man and thats what America remembers, and her vote on the IWR is old news, the only place that is still getting any traction is on DU. DU is only a minute fraction of America. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Kingstree]

24. Was she in political office?

Here is the Hillary illusion: Just because Hillary Clinton was First Lady during her husbands time as President (and when he was Governor) does not qualify her for the Presidency. That is not experience for this office. Everyone wants to merge her time as a Senator with her First Lady duties. That's bullshit! Her only true experience is her current senatorial duties. Don't be fooled. She has less experience than majority of her competitors. Being Fist Lady does not qualify you for President. Yes, she may know the inside of the White House building, but she did not sit behind that desk, her husband did. Don't get it twisted. And what about White Water, Travel-gate, Susan McDougal, Health Care etc, those were all negatives!! And besides, any REAL woman would have not allowed herself and their children to be subjected to his infidelity just to further her career aspirations. You and the media may want to say she's strong, but she stayed in an mentally abusive relationship. It's shameful.

[ElizabethDC]

33. Being a first lady and the president's top advisor isn't experience for the presidency?!

Well, you could knock me over with a feather. It's incredibly valuable experience - one does not have to be elected to an office to have the experience. Hillary was not merely a first lady who just lived in the White House - you need to do some reading on the Clinton presidency, methinks.

Besides, the Vice President doesn't sit behind "that desk" as you call it, and most people consider the vice presidency useful experience for the office of the presidency, despite the fact that the office of the vice president has very few constitutionally required duties.

[Ethelk2044]

49. She was not an adviser she was a wife. Damn I did not know a wife means being an adviser

[ElizabethDC]

61. Yes, but one can be a wife and an advisor - the two are not mutually exclusive.

Or, one can be an advisor but not a wife. Or one can be a wife and not an adivsor.

Wife does not equal advisor, nor does it preclude one from being an advisor.

[Ethelk2044]

67. It is different. A wife is one thing Advisor is another

[ElizabethDC]

69. No, they are not mutually exclusive. One can be an advisor and a wife.

I don't know why you can't understand that, it's relatively simple. . . .

[dionysus]

170. so by that logic Laura Bush is capable to be president. eeeeek!

[Ethelk2044]

25. All of those points are something the Clintons should not be proud of

Again, she was not in a Political Office. Give me some facts as to what political office she has held besides the one of the Senate.

[ElizabethDC]

36. What do you not get about the fact that one doesn't have to hold elected office to have experience?

I think her White House experience is more valuable to the presidency than Obama's state senate experience, which really wouldn't give one much insight into how to run the country. Hillary saw it first hand and served as an advisor to her husband - she knows how it works. Additonally, she has served 7 years as a U.S. Senator, so no one's asking to elect her solely because she was first lady. While that experience was certainly valuable and important, I don't think it's enough.

[Ethelk2044]

72. Ok then with your Logic Obama has enough experience then

Case in point

[ElizabethDC]

75. What experience is it you're talking about?

You're a bit difficult to follow.

I know that Obama was a community organizer, a lawyer, a law professor, a state senator, and now a U.S. senator. But I don't think that all of that is necessarily relevant (some of it is, though, such as the U.S. Senate experience.)

[creeksneakers2]

172. self delete

SD

[ElizabethDC]

22. Just because she wasn't president doesn't mean she didn't face political battles

In addition to those William mentioned, do you recall Healthcare? It was a political battle if I ever saw one.

Hillary was more than your ordinary first lady, though she obviously wasn't making presidential decisions.

As for "the Monica thing and other women," when you say "she didn't do such a great job," what do you think she should have done?

Additionally, what political battles and political competition has Obama faced?

[Ethelk2044]

23. Her health care was a Flop did not make it off First base

She did not hold an office. She was just a wife of Bill. I guess you can say All the Senators wifes has experience in political office from your logic.

[ElizabethDC]

28. She was not just Bill's wife

or as you say it "a wife of Bill" - as if he's had multiple. :rofl:

I think you and I have had this discussion before, and I've suggested that you perhaps do some reading on the Clinton presidency to better understand Hillary's role there.

One does not have to hold an elected office to engage in politics or to have influence.

Yes, health care didn't work out, and Hillary is the first to admit that a lot of mistakes were made there. You should really read her autobiography. The important thing is that she *had* the experience - she knows what went wrong and has learned from her mistakes. But the health care debacle shows what a huge learning curve there is in the White House, and why experience is so important.

[Ethelk2044]

77. That did not give her any political experience.

[ElizabethDC]

82. Health Care (among other things) wasn't political experience?!

Ok, then, whatever you say. But you should really look into learning more about the Clinton presidency.

[terisan]

76. Tackling health care at that time was a gutsy move. She only underestimated the forces against it.

She tried to keep out the special interest providers and they counter-attacked. I'd say she was naive at the time but she had guts, was open about her intentions, and got creamed.

Cheney, on the other hand, was successful in including only special interest providers in his energy tash force---and we have Iraq to show for it, plus national eminent domain for energy providers.

[ElizabethDC]

78. That's exactly how I feel about it

IMO, she tried to tackle something too big when she was too new to the White House, but she understands better than anyone the mistakes that were made. Making those kinds of mistakes and learning from them is, IMO, very important experience on her part.

[Ethelk2044]

99. in other words she Fucked UP

[ElizabethDC]

108. I wouldn't put it like that. But some miscalculations were definitely made

and Hillary is the first to admit it. Really, you should read her autobiography.

[terisan]

128. To risk or not to risk. Should she have played it safe, watched and waited, or

plunged in, as she did, and failed.

Watching both Clintons make mistakes due to not understanding the forces arrayed against positive change, is one reason I do not support the Obama candidacy.


If you want to work against Senator Clinton, I think she is vulnerable with Democrats on McAuliffe and Carvel-each has damaged the Democratic party and and both are supposedly going to be in her inner circle.

[Ethelk2044]

26. She begged him to Stay in a marriage where he wanted out of You

call that a strong woman?

[ElizabethDC]

30. I think making a difficult decision like that requires strength

when Bill considered a divorce in the late 80s, Hillary chose to stick with it because of Chelsea (and obviously Bill decided to stick with it, too.) And let's not forget that Bill begged Hillary to stay after the Monica incident.

I think deciding to stay and work out your problems in a marriage requires strength, yes - obviously it doesn't always work out, but I think there's something to be said by sticking with it.

[Ethelk2044]

34. That was not a difficult decision to make. I have been there You either

be with someone who loves you or play seconds. She chose to play second.

[ElizabethDC]

37. "Play seconds" what are you talking about? Divorce is a very difficult decision.

whatever one decides. Hillary said in her autobiography that the two biggest decisions she ever had to make in her life were deciding to stay with Bill and deciding to run for the Senate.

[Ethelk2044]

41. The only reason they are together is because it was a political move not love

[ElizabethDC]

44. You don't know that. No one else has any idea what goes on inside a marriage.

Period. A marriage is between two people. If it's fine with them, it's fine with me.

[William769]

50. And I'm not talking about Hillary,

As you'll answer it, take heed
This Slave commit no Violence upon
Himself. I've been deceiv'd. The Publick Safety
Requires he should be more confin'd; and none,
No not the Princes self, permitted to
Confer with him. I'll quit you to the King.
Vile and ingrate! too late thou shalt repent
The base Injustice thou hast done my Love:
Yes, thou shalt know, spite of thy past Distress,
And all those Ills which thou so long hast mourn'd;
Heav'n has no Rage, like Love to Hatred turn'd,
Nor Hell a Fury, like a Woman scorn'd.

William Congreve

[draft_mario_cuomo]

157. Amen.

[Colobo]

38. Exactly.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

155. Wow. Now Obama supporters attack HRC's marriage?

This is the "new politics" Obama's "movement" is spawning?

[earthlover]

47. I don't know about you, but I was tired of this discussion years ago....

...and if Hillary is nominated I am going to have to re-live a bad deja vu experience all all over again (kudos to Yogi). I don't care about Bill Clinton's infidelities. I don't care about Monica Lewinsky. I don't care about White Water. I don't care about all this crap. But if Hillary is nominated...will the issues be global warming, Iraq, health care, the homeless, social justice or any of that? Not on your life! If Hillary is nominated, the only issues we will hear about will be whether Bill inhaled, Monica, Monica, Monica, Whitewater, and a bunch more wahoo from dingbats. I don't think I can take a bad-trip-deja-vu experience like that. Sorry.

[Ethelk2044]

73. lol I agree Case in point

The Hillary supporters does not realize how bad it will be and we will lose the general election. I for one am tired of the repugs and want a better America.

[Tellurian]

31. That was then....This is now!

Bill Clinton is behind his wife 100%!

what will it take for you to "GET IT"?

[Ethelk2044]

35. I got it She can not make it on her own. Everyone else has it too

She is depending on Bill to bail her out.

[Tellurian]

54. He's not bailing..

He's running defense for her.. You watch football at all, at your house?

[Ethelk2044]

59. This is not football This is running for the house of the presidency

This is more important. She can not run off and make it. Like they said about Selma he had to make several phone calls just to get her invited.

[Tellurian]

64. huh? No comprehendo..speak in understandable sentences stating your case, please.

[Ethelk2044]

87. I thought you were slow you just confirmed it.

[Tellurian]

101. Right on..

For that diagnosis, you would have to understand the organic nerve impulses relating to the emphatic, that is, if I were referring to sexuality. Obviously, you're gifted with convenient misunderstanding ad nauseum...and this is something you yourself would have to seek as group help for successful treatment.

[earthlover]

119. WOW! Am I supposed to be impressed? Is any candidate's spouse NOT?

[terisan]

81. Yes, if that is what she wanted and believed in--some people take marriage vow seriously

[grasswire]

147. what the hell ARE you talking about??

Bill Clinton wanted out of the marriage?? I'm sure that's news to Bill Clinton!!

Did you pull that out of your a$$?

[Ethelk2044]

27. Do a search on Google This is what you will find about her political office

Biography
Full Name: Hillary Rodham Clinton
Party: Democratic
Political Office: U.S. Senator from New York; elected 2000; reelected 2006
Business/Professional Experience: Partner, Rose Law Firm (Little Rock, AR), 1979-1992
Date of Birth: October 26, 1947
Place of Birth: Chicago, IL
Education: B.A., Wellesley
College, 1969; J.D. Yale University, 1973
Spouse: former President Bill Clinton; married 1975
Children: daughter, Chelsea; born 1980
Religion: Methodist
Home: Chappaqua, NY

[Kingstree]

53. She should have left hm!

If she was a strong-willed woman, she would have still become a U.S. Senator and a presidential contender. Is that what she taught her daughter Chelsey, to be cheated on and mentally abused, but just because you are in the limelight and career oriented, just deal with it and all your dreams will come true. That's how many women (and men) get rich in this country, marry money and power, have kids but MAKE SURE you have a future divorce plan. Strong people don't do that. Strong people deal with setbacks, pick themselves up and get things done (and without a psychiatrist's help). And besides, when Hillary said that I am not at home "standing by my man" is exactly what she did!

[Tellurian]

29. Oh, and just so you know...she wasn't nagging him " to put up the butter."

Bill Clinton was a "real, honest to God, President"...and guess what...Hillary helped him write policy.

[Ethelk2044]

32. She should have. That lets everyone know she is weak. Michelle Obama does not take mess

Something Hillary can learn. She took Monica like a fool. Barack knows not to play those childish games with her because she is a strong woman who can make it on her own and has not problems doing so. Hillary is weak. She can not make it without Bill. She can not even make it in this election without Bill calling in favors for endorsements. That shows you just how weak she is.

[ElizabethDC]

39. I have a question - why do you complain so much about people "smearing" Obama?

When it seems that you spend a lot of time smearing Hillary with petty things like her marriage? What is your goal here? She's weak because she stayed with her unfaithful husband? Fine. I don't think that's the case, but I don't think it has anything to do with her being a good president.

[Ethelk2044]

40. Same reason you take up for Hillary

[ElizabethDC]

42. But I never attempt to smear Obama or the other candidates.

The only negative thing I ever say about Obama is that I don't think he has enough experience to be president (which, I think, is relavent to being president and is a legitimate qualm). I spend most of my time here defending Hillary and I try to stay out of the rest of it. I certainly don't judge him based on his personal life.

[Tellurian]

45. What ethel doesn't seem to want to understand..

is the difference between a smear and a truth-based gripe..

Theres a difference, ethel...a smear is an untruth to make your candidate look bad! the other is self explanatory!

[Ethelk2044]

48. You mean a Lie based Hype Like the ones you give.

[Tellurian]

51. Can you provide a Link? Or is that asking too much?

[Ethelk2044]

55. Read your posts I am not doing your job for you.

[Tellurian]

60. Ah, throw stones and forget why..

how convenient! not..

we don't do that here, ethel. In order to be taken seriously, you are obligated to provide proof for the accusation. Otherwise you are subject to being dismissed as a nutball..sorry, thats the way it works here.

[Ethelk2044]

63. I didn't forget why look at your own posts. I am not going to have you

waste my time.

[Tellurian]

Well, ethel...why preach to the choir and try to coverup your own failings..

Obama did apologise...are you denying that?

If he apologized, that means he was WRONG! Get it!

[Ethelk2044]

70. I do not have any. He needs to find out who is in his campaign and

hold a press conference and inform every who Clinton has working in his campaign if there is a person. To show Anmerica the Clintons have not changed. I and several of my friends have already sent emails to his campaign to find out if there is someone working in his campaign for the clintons.

[Tellurian]

80. Did it ever occur to you one of Obama's supporters doesn't like his politics?

And is exposing him on their own as a hypocrite?

[Ethelk2044]

85. No But It has occurred to me that Hillary has someone working in his campaign.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

158. Nice PA.

Typical.

[William769]

58. Post #46 is the standard response of this poster.

Willfully makes claims without backing it up.

[ElizabethDC]

65. I know, it's tiring. I don't know why I bother to respond. n/t

[avrdream]

107. I know. This is the first time I have wanted to ignore a poster.

But I kept asking myself, while reading this thread, "why are these intelligent posters even RESPONDING to the smear?"

[ElizabethDC]

112. It's a weakness I have.

When people post things that are simply outrageous, I can't help but respond. It's too much fun. I enjoy calling people on their B.S. - although some of these folks are quite hardheaded. I really should give it a rest.

[William769]

122. Well my dear you have a full time job!

And I applaud you for it. I sometimes think Faux news has competition.

[Ethelk2044]

46. You need to read some of your blogs then

Agree with you experience counts. She does not have as much experience as Obama. Yet, you feel she is better suited for the Office of the Presidency. That is a bit hypocritical especially since he has more experience in an elected office. With your logic, if I marry a Senator then that qualifies me as having experience.

[ElizabethDC]

57. IMO, elected experience isn't the only experience that counts

and, no, solely being married to someone doesn't mean that you have experience at that job. I don't know why you don't get it. You should crack open a book about the Clinton years (Bill and Hillary's autobiographies are both good, but there are scores of other books out there that are helpful.)

Personally, I don't feel that time in the state senate is all that relevant to the presidency. Not all elected experience is relevant. Believe me, I know some state senators, and I don't think any of them are anywhere near qualified to go anywhere near the White House. I mean, I could, for example, be on the city council, but that doesn't prepare me to be president of the United States.

Besides, IIRC, Wes Clark has zero experience in elected office, and yet plenty of people think he should be president (and I'm inclined to agree).

[Ethelk2044]

62. With your logic then George W Bush has enough Experience

Look how he was Fuck things up.

[ElizabethDC]

68. How did I in any way imply that Bush had enough experience?

I think he certainly didn't have enough. He was governor, which one would think might be helpful, but other than that all he did was run companies into the ground.

[Ethelk2044]

88. She has just about same experience has him

[ElizabethDC]

98. No, I don't think so

it's not like he was all that involved in his father's presidency. As I've said many times, simply being a spouse or relative isn't enough to qualify as experience - it's what that spouse or relative *does* that matters. As much as you'd like to pretend it's not true, Hillary played a big role in her husband's presidency, and it wasn't just laying wreaths and planning state dinners.

[Tellurian]

43. Well, thats NOT TRUE!

we've never gone after Obama before like this. But he's admtted he did it and apologised for it!...so, wheres the beef?

Why is it that Obama has admitted guilt but you cannot? Do you think yourself better than Obama?

[Ethelk2044]

52. You have gone after Obama on a daily basis here on DU you need

to review all of your posts if you think otherwise. Everyday I log on her I see you posting lies about Obama and I am sick of it.

[ElizabethDC]

71. You say nasty things about Hillary on a regular basis

(see: this thread). Do you not think that some are sick of that? Pot, meet kettle.

[Ethelk2044]

95. In the beginning I was not talking about her. But I got tired of you and your group bashing Obama

Therefore yes, I started replying to your posts about Obama.

[ElizabethDC]

102. I don't think I've ever bashed Obama

I'm allowed to discuss him, am I not? I try to say constructive things. I actually like Obama - my main qualm is that I don't believe he has enough relevant experience to be president right now. I think one day, he will make a great president.

But I have never, ever tried to smear Obama. Very occasionally (and only if it directly involves Hillary) do I comment on something he does politically. But I don't go ragging on his personal life. Ever.

[Tellurian]

74. Well, tell your candidate to straighten up and fly right... because

This is how he wants to run his campaign:

Obama Quote:

"I've been struck by how hungry we all are for a different kind of politics. ... But challenging as they are, it's not the magnitude of our problems that concerns me the most. It's the smallness of our politics.

Ask him, when is he going to get away from the smallness?....

[Ethelk2044]

84. Your candidate is the worst with corruption and you are trying to talk about Obama

Hillary needs to get her act together not Obama. She waits for him to vote. Then walk up and copy his votes. She can not even decide on how to vote for Iraq on her own. You want to tell me she has experience. They she would have been the first person up there to vote. She would not have had to wait for Obama to vote and then copy his vote on the last war funding bill. He always votes last. However, this time she was scared of voting the wrong way and waited for him to vote.

[Tellurian]

Hillary is not floundering on her knees with an apology..Obama is!

why do you continue to be in denial...Obama is apologizing for trying to smear Senator Clinton?

[Ethelk2044]

90. Show me a picture of Obama on his knees

[Tellurian]

94. Michelle has confiscated all the pictures

of Obama 'putting up the butter' and on his knees..

If you know her, I'm sure she's willing to share.

[ElizabethDC]

86. She copies his votes?

:rofl: She was in the Senate for 4 years before he was - whose votes was she copying then?! :rofl:

And do you honestly think she hadn't made up her mind as far as how she was going to vote? One of them had to go first - had Hillary gone first, I wouldn't be sitting here saying that he was copying her. Maybe from now on they should just vote at the exact same time.

[Ethelk2044]

92. Go ask for CSPAN for the roll call video she voted after him

Even the news media showed it.

[ElizabethDC]

104. Did I deny that she voted after him?

I watched it live on C-Span and she went 2 or 3 minutes after he did. But I don't think she was "copying" him in any way. She's a big girl and can make her own decisions. Was he copying her by following her to the Senate? How come their voting record (for the time they've both been there) is exactly the same, but for one vote? Did she just start copying him the day he came to the Senate?

[Tellurian]

114. And voted for the first time AFTER him!

:rofl:

[Ethelk2044]

93. Because he is a Gentleman. He is not out for corruption like your Candidate.

[Tellurian]

105. I don't want an effen gentleman shilling for the Neocons

as my president. And, I won't have it..

Tell me this. Will you vote for Hillary if she is the nominee?

[flpoljunkie]

117. Speaking of links! Got any for this hairy accusation--"shilling for the Neocons?"

[Tellurian]

118. It ain't hairy...count all the references to GWB et al and get back to me!

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/04/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam.html

[flpoljunkie]

161. Neocon would never say, "We must neither retreat from the world nor try to bully it into submission-

we must lead the world, by deed and example."

Neocon chickenhawks are bullies, as everyone here acknowledges.

[William769]

125. She already answered that question.

She would rather have a Repuke.

[Tellurian]

129. Flpojunkie?

Saluting, Prez Thompson?

[William769]

134. oops no!

I thought you were referring to the person in Post #97.

I find Flpojunkie to be an honorable Democrat.

[Tellurian]

142. Ok, we're clear!

[ElizabethDC]

106. "Out for corruption"

can you provide some links, Ethel? You just keep repeating allegations of corruption without providing any specifics.

[Tellurian]

111. Ethel, NO...too lasy to provide links! nm

[snowbear]

167. ?

too lasy

"Lasy?"

BTW. I don't think Ethel or anyone else here is lazy.

I'm surprised who someone refused to add a link to their "8 years in Iraq claim" a couple of days ago would jump on anyone elses case for not adding a link.

You told everyone who asked for it to "go Google it".

They did. And the story didn't exist TellUrian.

[Tellurian]

110. Worst case scenario...SO WHAT?

She's gonna whoop Obama like a school kid, and show him how it's done.

Will you vote for her, if she is the nominee?

[MGKrebs]

83. I have many differences with that.

I am sure you are right, the Clinton campaign is feeling the Obama heat. This of course will cause the Clinton people to panic and start screwing things up. Or not.

H. Clinton's public life has been nothing if not a constant battle. You only have to read about every third post on DU to find out how much of a liability this is seen to be.

What is an "Obama reporter"? Did they think they had a reporter they could trust? That is Team Obama's mistake, not Clinton's.

As far as the issues: Activists and interested parties will find out where the candidates stand on the issues if they want to without having to hear a speech or read a press release. I don't think there is any mystery about where these candidates are coming from. If a candidate came out with some statement dramatically different than their record I would be skeptical of it, and they better be explaining their epiphany too. Brand new candidates who come out of nowhere may have a little bit of a burden here, but anybody like that is highly unlikely to get elected anyway because the voters don't want to be surprised. Ultimately, Howard Dean, who inspired many to give a lot of money and time and effort, could not convince voters that they could trust him with their vote.

The campaign process really is a dog-and-pony show. It's about putting some pressure on these people and seeing how they react, what kind of team can they build, what kind of support they get, that sort of thing. This is about all the other job requirements BESIDES policy. I find it pretty funny that people here claim to not know what H. Clinton stands for because supposedly her website isn't as easy to navigate as they would like. Or that Edwards s the best candidate because he had good info up on his website pretty early. Puhleeze. As if there aren't about a thousand other sources to find out about what they believe and how they behave. It's pretty rare these days to get a candidate- let alone a winner- at this level with no prior public service experience, therefore this process isn't about hiring someone unknown and new, it's about promoting someone from within and giving them more responsibility.

I think this thirst for further statements about policy is really just a desire to see an opponent make a mistake- say something contradictory or even just vague, or anything to parse and be critical of. Every supporter thinks THEIR candidate is the one who has the issues down cold. It's the other candidates who are either vague or disingenuous. The great "swing voter" masses generally don't know or want to know too much detail except for maybe one or two issues that trip their trigger. They mostly want to know if they can trust the candidate, and if they can know what to expect- NOT be surprised.

[wyldwolf]

20. welcome, my "progressive" friends, to the sweet science

It isn't a science you're at all familiar with nor is it one for the faint of heart. You've just witnessed an experienced older fighter (Hillary) out-box and out-point a new contender.

The wild uppercut Obama threw was a thing of beauty, executed with style and grace. Unfortunately, as is often the case in the fight game, it missed it's mark. Clinton saw it coming, backed up a hair, then landed a solid right hook squarely on Obama's jaw.

No, the fight isn't over, but this round is. Ding! Ding! Ding! Score another for Clinton.

[IndianaGreen]

56. Typical Clintonian sleazy and dirty politics

The last thing this country needs is to replace the worst President in our history, with the same sleaze crowd that preceded him. It is time to move forward, not return to the past.

Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton is not the answer!

[Ethelk2044]

66. This is Well Put. . Right on Spot!

[Herman Munster]

89. sorry bud

when Obama acts like a hypocrite and chooses to send out anonymous hit pieces against Hillary, the Hillary campaign will take every opportunity to fight back and embarass the Obama campaign.

Like Hillary has always said, when you are attacked, you go back and deck your opponents twice as hard.

The KEY point is Obama's new type of politics was all bullshit. He's a fucking hypocrite. Why resort to anonymous hit pieces? Why is he sucking up to Hillary in every debate and not calling her the Senator from Punjab?

All this does is show Obama's campaign as being weak, disorganized, and borderline incompetent in opposition research.

[Ethelk2044]

96. He needs to start decking her Woman or no Woman

[Tellurian]

116. I'm hoping he'll do it soon..

and then watch what happens!

no cryin, ethel, promise?

[Ethelk2044]

97. Hillary has proven she is the sleaze she really is. No way in Hell will I vote for her.

If I have to vote for a repug so be it.

[William769]

103. And theres the million dollar answer!

[flpoljunkie]

109. Any Dem is better than any Republican running, Ethelk2044.

[ElizabethDC]

113. Indeed. I'll proudly vote for whichever candidate gets the nom.

I would hope others would do the same (well, at least vote, even if they don't do it proudly :) )

[Tellurian]

115. Oh, Oh, .WARNING...ETHEL VOTING FOR A REPUB..IF OBAMA LOSES NOM..

Not a very good thing, Ethel!

[William769]

120. You can bet I got that post bookmarked!

ON EDIT: There are several posts in this thread I have bookemarked. As someone once said "you just can't make this stuff up". :rofl:

[Tellurian]

123. As you said..you can't make this stuff up!

I hope it's none of mine...I'm just letting it RIP!

:rofl:

[tammywammy]

121. Are you really surprised?

I may not care for Hillary but I won't attack her like Ethel is. (Esp about her marriage)

[Tellurian]

124. tammywammy, I'm disappointed...I thought Ethel cared..

and knew the difference between a Republican and a Democrat and what it means to us..

So, Ethel is in this for herself? Bummer!

[tammywammy]

126. I don't feel the need to stoop so low to

try and convince people to support anyone. I stopped reading up thread when it degraded into a flame war on her marriage.

[Tellurian]

127. When the accuser refuses to provide links...

to back their accusations.. theres always that danger.

[tammywammy]

130. Indeed

[Ethelk2044]

135. No just tired of your childish games.

[Ethelk2044]

136. You can't get lower than a snake there is no further you can go.

[tammywammy]

145. If you have such a big problem

Ignore William and Tell

No one forces you to reply to them. Everyone know they're for Hillary. There's no need to racket it up a notch to "defend" Obama.

[Ethelk2044]

132. I do care. That is why I do not want to see anymore corruption in the White House

If the Clintons get back in there is will be the same as last time.

[Tellurian]

137. You're not picking the nominee.. Ethel2044

The Democratic party is..

Either you're with us; or against US!

[Ethelk2044]

140. I am Against Hillary

For Obama
For Edwards
For Biden
For Richarson

[Ethelk2044]

131. Anyone but Hillary Tell

[Tellurian]

133. You're a Turncoat Ethel, don't talk to me..

you don't care about us..

[Ethelk2044]

138. I don''t care to associate with corruption

[ElizabethDC]

143. Can you give me specifics on this corruption?

Links would be nice, but I realize you're not usually into that, so some details would suffice.

[William769]

139. Lets just say I have finally been forced to use the ignore feature.

Anyone that will vote for a Repuke over a Democrat, doesn't deserve a damn thing from me.

[Ethelk2044]

141. Finally I get what I want. Damn I am good.

[Tellurian]

144. Agreed...the Ignore function for Ethel..

carry on!

[jefferson_dem]

159. Hmmmm....

I think we actually agree on that one, William. :wow:

...on supporting a repuke over a dem, that is...

[William769]

171. I knew there had to be something.

See miracles do happen. :hi:

[sellitman]

173. Not a good answer!

HRC is last on my list but if she wins she gets my support.

How could you?

Vote for a Repuke?

Use your head and think over what you are saying.

Look at the last 6 1/2 years.

I'll even buy you a close pin if that is what it takes,

[draft_mario_cuomo]

162. You took the words out of my mouth nt

:toast:

[William769]

100. What parallel universe do you live in?

[TeamJordan23]

146. Supposedly Obama's people gave the memos to various big media orgs., but wouldn't NYT be one them?

There is just something very fishy about these story. Wouldn't you think NYT would be given the memos if they were giving them out to various media organizations? But instead, it was leaked to NYT. There is something fishy going on.

[Ethelk2044]

149. I Agree, but New York Times is stating Hillary's campaign gave them the information

However, they are not willing to tell the Times how they came by them.

[Capn Sunshine]

150. maybe someone should ask politely

I'm sure Hillary's campaign has nothing to hide. Her supporters here are paragons of civility who boost their candidate without resorting to smear.

:puke:

[ElizabethDC]

156. Well, first of all, some of us don't resort to smearing

:hi:

Second of all, of course they aren't going to divulge the source. I would think that a campaign would protect their sources just like a journalist would. :shrug:

[Captain_Nemo]

148. Wasn't he the do gooder politician? Slimebucket. Oh, wait it must have been his staff

Obama's campaign made a sleazy move. But what do you expect from a politician who listens to Colin Powell?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

163. Will he please stop his holier-than-though rhetoric about being a "new kind" of pol?

Let's hope so. It will be pathetic if Holy Barack (he's as sanctimonious as Holy Joe!) continues to pose as that in light of these revelations.

[Captain_Nemo]

164. I agree 100%. He is the SAME kind of politician we are used to. Now let's get down to who can solve

the issues. Not who smiles the biggest.

[illinoisprogressive]

160. i think the obama people wanted those out as a warning to hillary

[Captain_Nemo]

165. Now that IS a weak argument/idea. I think they are smarter than that!

[John Q. Citizen]

169. Gore is a genius. After the so called top tier rip each other to shreds, he can

regain his rightful office and get on with environmental mitigation and a single payer not for profit health insurance system.

This story in the OP is good for Americans and the world.

[bvar22]

174. A pox on BOTH their houses.

A Hillary/Obama nomination is a WIN/WIN for the CEOs/ Wall St/ War Profiteers.