On Foreign Policy, Kerry Sees Strength in Alliances

[Feanorcurufinwe]

John Kerry is offering American voters a far different vision of the U.S. role in international affairs than President Bush, one that much of the world may find more familiar and more comforting. The Democratic senator from Massachusetts, now leading in the race for his party's presidential nomination, has accused Bush of extremism in waging the "most arrogant, inept, reckless and ideological foreign policy in modern history." While insisting he would never cede U.S. security to any nation or institution and will use force when necessary, Kerry envisions a "new era of alliances (because) even the only superpower on earth cannot succeed without cooperation and compromise with our friends and allies."

<snip>

Critics have slammed him for double-talk on Iraq, because after voting for war, he has faulted Bush's handling of it. But Kerry counters that while Bush was right to hold Saddam Hussein accountable, "he went to war in a rush and he rushed into war almost alone ... How is it possible to do what the Bush administration has done, win a great military victory yet make America weaker?" This was among the points in Kerry's most comprehensive discussion of his foreign policy priorities, a speech last December to the Council on Foreign Relations.

"Intoxicated with the pre-eminence of American power," the Bush team has abandoned fundamental tenets like "belief in collective security, respect for international institutions and international law, multilateral engagement and the use of force not as a first option but truly as a last resort," the senator said.

Kerry pledged to restore diplomacy as a tool of U.S. foreign policy, treat the U.N. as a "full partner," renew bilateral talks with North Korea and "replace unilateral action with collective security of a genuine nature." He says he would appoint a presidential ambassador to breathe new life into the moribund Middle East peace process and name a separate presidential envoy for the Islamic world who would seek to strengthen moderate Islam.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=4354830

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. Kerry is shrewd enough to know that how you say it is what counts

For example, "Operation Kill the Iraqis and Steal Their Oil" doesn't sound so good.

"Operation Iraqi Freedom" sounds better. Even bush's people could follow the song that far.

"Use Iraq's Stolen Oil to Bribe Other Countries So They Will Join the US in Committing War Crimes and Maybe Have Some of Them Murder Iraqi Kids While Wearing Blue Hats"

sounds a little funny, but "treat the U.N. as a "full partner and replace unilateral action with collective security of a genuine nature" has the potential of making the few American voters who care how many Iraqi kids have legs see things in a whole new light!

If these campaign statements are any indication, Kerry and his staff will be able to give a new coat of paint to lots of things that really need one!

I don't mean this a slam to the other well-funded candidates, or imply that their positions deviate too far from the status quo, or that they are not good at thinking up better ways to put things, but Kerry is an acknowledged master of language.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

3. Let me guess

you don't support any candidate.


Did I guess right?

There's no real difference between Republicans and Democrats, they both support 'the status quo' - am I still guessing right?

I present the past 12 years as evidence to the contrary.

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. I present the past forty or so, just to keep it simple

The status quo means continuity, and is reassuringly supportive of business interests.

It is true that the Democrats did a little hesitant toe-dipping back in the early 60s, but they quickly rushed back to their comfort zone and have since consistently made the choices they feel are in the party's best interests.

You are correct that I do not support any of the candidates.

I am sorry to say that the crisis has gone far past the point where a political solution is a realistic possibility.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. What is your proposed solution to the crisis?

[DuctapeFatwa]

6. I would prefer that the US voluntarily disarm and immediately recall all

crusaders, gunmen, operatives, "commercials," "security consultants," any and all personnel associated in any way, shape or form with armed forces, defense or energy industries, covert and overt, who are currently deployed on foreign soil, bringing every weapon they brought, including those kept in the fat little pitbull of a weapons depot in the Levant, and leaving any plowshares, to the US and put them all to work repairing infrastructure and schools, write a blank check to every NGO on the planet that is NOT affiliated with either the US or the UN, so that they can begin to cleanup the humanitarian disaster that has resulted from US policies, feudalism and greed, round up the entire bush regime, including ariel sharon and his henchmen, most of Congress and an alarming number of CEOs of energy and defense companies and put them on planes for safe, humane and timely transport to the Hague to await their free and open trials in clean and habitable cells and treated in accordance with every provision of 4th Geneva, ask Fidel to send some folks to set up a health care system, and ask Hugo Chavez to organize a coalition of independent international monitors to organize free and open elections, with universal franchise - if you live here, you vote - polls come to the people, thumbprint, over a two week period, and once there are elected officials, amend the constitution to include a Living Wage and a Right to Housing.

That's the first 3 weeks. It's too little too late, but it's a start, and it might give you a shot at old age, and your grandkids a shot at living somewhere that bears less resemblance to Rwanda than any lesser measures.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. I didn't ask what you would do as dictator of the US.

You said:
" I am sorry to say that the crisis has gone far past the point where a political solution is a realistic possibility. "

So if you are not advocating a political solution, what solution are you advocating? How do you propose to solve problems if not politically?

[DuctapeFatwa]

8. I said what I would prefer the US do voluntarily, not sure how you got

dictator out of that.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

9. Well anyway, how do you propose

that we work towards the goals you've laid out? You've said politics won't do it. So what is your proposed solution?

[DuctapeFatwa]

10. Sadly, I don't get to propose. I get to say I would prefer that the US do

all I said voluntarily.

If they don't, like you, I get to wait until the rest of the world's nations get tired of having their citizens variously kidnapped, blown up, starved, maimed, tortured and otherwise abused while they sit quietly and wait their turn to be bombed, occupied and their natural resources seized.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

11. Actually you do get to propose solutions here - what's stopping you?

Again I ask you, if political solutions are not the answer, what is the answer?


Why won't you answer this simple question?

[DuctapeFatwa]

16. I'm not sure what you feel I'm not answering. I have outlined what I would

prefer, and I have said that I would prefer that the US do it voluntarily, not only because I believe that non-violence is the better alternative, but because I think that having the US do it voluntarily would mean a better chance of more consideration of US domestic interests.

The ball is currently in the rest of the world's court.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. It's pretty simple, I didn't ask you how you would 'prefer the world be'

LOL, I'll save that for blowing out birthday candles.

One more time, here is the question you are avoiding:


You said:

" I am sorry to say that the crisis has gone far past the point where a political solution is a realistic possibility. "

So the question is, what solution do you think is a realistic possibility? If political means aren't the way to effect change, what is?

[DuctapeFatwa]

33. In Post 6, I outlined some first steps toward a solution

I think if the US were to take those steps, that would be a good beginning and increase the possibilities of a longer term solution that includes a political process, as indicated by the language relating to elections.

[BootinUp]

2. Kerry has very similar approach

as Clark here. I like his foreign policy position for the most part.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. Would you care to elaborate on your false assertion?

What is the basis for your smear?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. Another assertion? Surely you can do better than that.

Could you please actually try to make an argument? You know, something that might persuade someone who doesn't already agree with you?

The normal form of it is that you start with a set of premises (hopefully documented in some way), and then you make a reasoned argument that leads towards a conclusion. You are presenting a conclusion that you have reached, but you're skipping everything else. Come on, this is a discussion board, let's try discussing.

[DuctapeFatwa]

17. "Debating imperialism is a bit like debating the pros and cons of rape"

Arundhati Roy

http://www.hindu.com/2004/01/18/stories/2004011800181400.htm

[Feanorcurufinwe]

19. Hey, you still haven't answered my question!

Since you say politics is not the way to effect change, what is your proposed solution?

And yes, you are allowed to propose solutions, lol.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. Of course not, you don't need anything, but surely you aren't

limited to mere sloganeering? I have confidence in your ability to put forth a reasonable argument if you try. Please try.

[RedDawnRising]

25. No thanks

[Feanorcurufinwe]

26. Isn't the problem that your slogans are empty and without meaning?

And that's why you can't explain them?

[LiviaOlivia]

27. Hit and Run

I don't think you'll get more then a one-liner from him.

[RedDawnRising]

29. You're wrong

Here's two lines.

Kerry is a joke.

[LiviaOlivia]

32. Why is Sen. Kerry a joke?

The Kucinich supporters I read post well thought out arguments with
supporting evidence. They also post in sentences that make up paragraphs.
What's up? Hit and Run is freeper style not DK territory.

Maybe it's past your bedtime. I don't want you to get in trouble.

[RedDawnRising]

28. I can explain them - but I won't waste my time

My time is too valuable to me.

I don't need to debate things to prove me right or you wrong.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. So your time isn't too valuable to repeat buzzwords ad nauseum

but it's too valuable to spend trying to say something thoughtful? With the utmost respect I'd like to ask if you do spend your valuable time here, you spend it posting something of value.

[revcarol]

18. No there there. No smear there.

PPI is virtually the same as PNAC, just gussied up a little. Multi-lateralist sounds great until you see that it is just another way to carve up the world for commercial interests. And PPI is VERY MILITARISTIC.Gotta use U. S. military power for "good." Like maybe plan Colombia that Kerry wrote, for the U. S. to guard the oil pipelines and close their eyes as paramilitaries kill people.

sound familiar? "use the military for good, " like "Iraq is better off now that Saddam's gone..."

You can put lipstick on a pig...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

20. If I said Bush and Dennis Kucinich were 'virtually the same'

would it make it true?

lol

[ShimokitaJer]

35. then people would laugh you out of the room

However, what the poster said was that the PNAC and the PPI were virtually the same, and Kerry's support of the PPI's agenda makes us doubt Kerry's commitment to the values he praises on the campaign trail.

[ShimokitaJer]

34. The basis for the accusation is here, in my thread

Perhaps if you read something of what Kerry has supported in the past rather than clinging to what he says on the campaign trail, you might understand why some of us are so reluctant to give him our support.

Read my post here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=326015&mesg_id=326015

[oasis]

24. kick

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