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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:02 PM
Original message
What would a President Edwards foreign policy look like?
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 04:11 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
http://coffeehouse.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/may/23/edwards_full_speech_not_hard_power_not_soft_power_smart_power

Edited to take out the pasted speech. I hope people will read the entire speech by clicking on the link. Let's focus more on the substance of the candidates! This isn't an election for homecoming king!
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wakemeupwhenitsover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. DU rules prohibit more than 3 or 4 paragraphs.
You've still time to edit.

Copyrights: Do not copy-and-paste entire articles onto this discussion forum. When referencing copyrighted work, post a short excerpt (not exceeding 4 paragraphs) with a link back to the original.
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Does that apply to speeches? nt
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I think so, better check.
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wakemeupwhenitsover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I checked the site you linked to & it had a fair use agreement,
so I would say yes, it still applies.

Just to be safe & save DU some potential headache, why don't you edit it?
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Done. Thank you and seasonedblue
:toast:
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wakemeupwhenitsover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thank you.
You could have left in the first 4 paragraphs, but maybe this will get more DUers to click on the link which was a very good speech, BTW.

:toast:
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Yes, that was my intent
We need to focus more on the candidates platforms and less on dumb things like haircuts. We also need to look forward, not act as if time froze several years ago. If we nominate a candidate without a vision for the nation, an actual agenda for the nation, we risk losing to someone like Romney who, while mistaken, is at least offering a vision and an agenda. Generic poll-tested rhetoric will only go so far in the general election. People will ask, in this post-W political world, for actual substance in 08'. They won't ask about haircuts, pickles, or the other issues that serve to distract us from the serious decision of choosing a president.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Your very welcome,
:toast:

I hate that rule, especially with subscription articles, but I do understand why it's necessary.
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bomb Iran
and then say it was a mistake!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. !
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 04:22 PM by FrenchieCat
(would use smilie rofl, but not a Smilie matter)...

Possibly:
Based on this info, hard to know where John Edwards truly stands on this!
http://www.herzliyaconference.org/Eng/_Articles/Article.asp?ArticleID
http://www.cjp.org/content_display.html?ArticleID=178593
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/10435.htm
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Edwards_Iran_must_know_world_wont_0123.html
http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/world/?content_id=5400
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/printer_23828.shtml
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3355802,00.html
http://www.nysun.com/article/47843
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2007/02/enforced-orthodoxies-and-iran.html
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_02/010678.php
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007_02_01_digbysblog_archive.html#117046464485756663
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=10399
http://www.planetarymovement.org/2007/01/24/edwards-veers-hard-right

But I also know that when the Internet got wind of this "Cowboy" talk coming from John Edwards, and so then many said they wouldn't support him anymore, and next thing you know, he arranged for an interview just for the netroots.
http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/2007/02/the_edwards_int.html

check the dates. After that one interview, the Netroots once again loved them some John Edwards in about one minute.

But still, the "To and Fro" left its mark, and so I do believe that it makes hard for those who go beyond the "what have you said for me today?" campaign rethoric to feel comfortable...that's for sure! :shrug:
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. Charm offensive -- even those who disparage Edwards have to admit
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 04:18 PM by LSparkle
that he's a charismatic, likeable guy and I think he could definitely develop some positive, productive relationships with foreign leaders. JFK-lite maybe ...
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Perhaps.......but I personally don't believe that he is the Dem's
best bet to win in the General Election.......unlike what many of his supporters believe....

So although I believe that Edwards has a good chance in the Dem primaries of actually winning, I believe that in the GE, he will be DOA.

As an example.....although many are proud of Edwards denouncing "The War on Terror" as a bumper sticker slogan and "sticking" to this point, I believe that with some unforeseen thwarted "Plot", a little media engineering, and some GOP talking points, Edwards will only end up as being characterized as a weak link in more ways than one--and this could be a fatal blow.

I currently see the media actually favoring Edwards in very subtle ways that will become more pronounced as the campaign wears on. So in the end, I believe that Edwards will be the eventual Dem pick of the media.....as this will ensure a "tight" race in the General Election, in where, at the end of the day, John Edwards "left" positions that he has staked out to woo the Netroots will not wear well with the mass voters.....especially when the media is done twisting it all.

Add to that, Edwards' proposal to raise taxes, and the fact that many poor people simply just don't vote, Edwards as the nominee becomes a recipe for disaster. In addition, Edwards will be shackled by his "to and Fro" position on quite a few issues, and he will not be able to argue Iraq as well as some may think due to his co-sponsorship and pushing of the Blank check while sitting on the Intel Committee back in 2002....information that probably will be "saved" by the opposition until the General Election.

I am apprehensive about this....because Edwards has put himself via televised words in a position that will make it easy for the opposition to stir up enough fear in enough voters. This works, and if you don't think so, see "October surprise/Osama Bin Laden Tape/Kerry election 2004" and "Kerry Joke/circa 2006", and also see "Guliani/Paul/distortion on debate 9/11 answer-circa 07".

Many Dems are being lulled into a false sense of "we will win almost no matter what" and many are opting for an Edwards choice due to the fact that he is an attractive White Southern Male with a couple of tragedy in his life and some detailed policies proposed with the poor in mind. However, at the end of the day, I think many will be shocked that what their betting on as a "got to be a sure thing compared to the rest of the Dem field" are going to be in for a rude awakening.

We already well know Obama's biggest flaws; the fact that he is an African American and some say relatively inexperienced.

We already know Clinton's Biggest flaw; the fact that she is woman and that she is somewhat divisive in terms of GOP hate levels......

However, I believe that Edwards has more subtle negatives than the other two (and which won't be able to be diffused as racism or sexism) and will be used against him, as needed.....via selective "time released" material.

So although Edwards may appear to be an "attractive" "conventional" ideal pick from afar, when examined closely, and considering his "weakness on National Security" (saying sorry at every event will not look good "Looped together"), Edwards will not seem so "attractive" in the general election.

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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I wish I had your feelings about him getting the nomination
but I'm afraid his pro-labor, anti-globalization stances will hurt him (Edwards). He's already been decried by Jim Blow-A-Gasket Cramer as the candidate Wall Street is most afraid of, so he's going to have all the big money men doing whatever they can to defeat him. (And coincidentally I just heard this week that Warren Buffett will be hosting a fundraiser for ... guess who? ... Hillary soon, inviting all his Street buddies.)

I'll take either Edwards or Obama over Hillary ... Currently I'm leaning toward Edwards but I've been truly inspired by Obama as well. My dream ticket would be Edwards/Obama or the reverse but I'll be happy with any candidate but Hillary, frankly (and I'm a woman, so I should be supporting her), because I think she'd only drive the left and the right further apart, rather than bringing us all together (which is what we so desperately need).
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LBJDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I think it's hilarious
how you harshly criticize Edwards in so many of your posts.

Kind of like how I criticize Obama all the time.

:toast:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. It may be funny, but I have reliable facts and cites when I do so.......bout you?
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LBJDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
43. I do as well.
I just don't do it as carefully as you do.
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Buck Rabbit Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. We have a different set of reasons to think he will struggle in the General.
I think his biggest vulnerabilities in the General will be a repeat of what worked against Kerry.

1) The Flip/Flop stratagem. While I agree with where Edwards has evolved in his position as a candidate, he is running hard against his actual record in the Senate.


2) Swiftboating his medical malpractice career. I am almost certain we would be seeing something like "North Carolina Obstetricians For Truth" marched out testifying that John Edwards used junk science to sue dozens and dozens of hard working caring physicians.

3) Muddle Iraq. Just like they used Kerry's nuanced positions on Iraq in 2004 to convince many people there was no significant difference between him and Bush. They will use Edwards shifted policy and confusing apology to make Iraq a weakness for him not a strength.

Then for good measure they'll use The Haircut. As stupid as the Haircut is it registers with the politically lazy which is a huge percentage of the "undecided" voter base. Now hedge fund would be a more legitimate hypocrisy tag, but it is hard to make stick as you first have to explain to the "undecideds" what a hedge fund is.

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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Yes, our best bet is a guy who spoke at a Republican fundraiser in 2001
:sarcasm:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Well as an Edwards supporter, I'm sure that 2001 must be really, really long ago.....
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 08:28 PM by FrenchieCat
So long ago, I'm surprised you remember any of it.....Cause "so sorry" is supposed to have washed all of what Edwards has ever said BEFORE November of 2005 down the memory hole! :eyes:

Edward’s floor speech starts like this....
Mr. President, I am here to speak in support of the resolution before us, which I cosponsored. I believe we must vote for this resolution not because we want war, but because the national security of our country requires action.
continue here: http://www.obamapedia.org/page/2002+John+Edwards+speech+supporting+the+Iraq+War?t=anon

He also wrote some op-ed's published in major newspapers--

and made some speeches to Foreign policy think-tanks

http://web.archive.org/web/20020914012714/http://edwards.senate.gov/
Senator Edwards calls for overthrow of Iraqi dictator.


Senator John Edwards, when asked about "Axis of Evil" countries Iran, Iraq, and North Korea:

"I mean, we have three different countries that, while they all present serious problems for the United States -- they're dictatorships, they're involved in the development and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction -- you know, the most imminent, clear and present threat to our country is not the same from those three countries. I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country."
Senator John Edwards (Democrat, North Carolina)
During an interview on CNN's "Late Edition"
February 24, 2002
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0202/24/le.00.html




"As a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, I firmly believe that the issue of Iraq is not about politics. It's about national security. We know that for at least 20 years, Saddam Hussein has obsessively sought weapons of mass destruction through every means available. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons today. He has used them in the past, and he is doing everything he can to build more. Each day he inches closer to his longtime goal of nuclear capability -- a capability that could be less than a year away."

"The path of confronting Saddam is full of hazards. But the path of inaction is far more dangerous. This week, a week where we remember the sacrifice of thousands of innocent Americans made on 9-11, the choice could not be starker. Had we known that such attacks were imminent, we surely would have used every means at our disposal to prevent them and take out the plotters. We cannot wait for such a terrible event -- or, if weapons of mass destruction are used, one far worse -- to address the clear and present danger posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq."
Senator John Edwards (Democrat, North Carolina)
US Senate floor statement: "Iraqi Dictator Must Go"
September 12, 2002


Iraq's destructive capacity has the potential to throw the entire Middle East into chaos, and it poses a mortal threat to our vital ally, Israel. Thousands of terrorist operatives around the world would pay anything to get their hands on Saddam Hussein's arsenal and would stop at nothing to use it against us. America must act, and Congress must make clear to Hussein that he faces a united nation."
http://www.usembassy.it/file2002_09/alia/a2091910.htm
John Edwards Op Ed in the WAPO dated 9/17/02


October 7, 2002
This week, the U.S. Senate will have an historic debate on the most difficult decision a country ever makes: whether to send American soldiers into harm's way to defend our nation. The President will address these issues in his speech tonight.

My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. I am a co-sponsor of the bipartisan resolution we're currently considering.
<>
At the end of the day, there must be no question that America and our allies are willing to use force to eliminate the threat of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction once and for all. And I believe if America leads, the world will join us.
<>
This is not just a moral imperative. It is a security imperative. It is in America's national interest to help build an Iraq at peace with itself and its neighbors, because a democratic, tolerant and accountable Iraq will be a peaceful regional partner. And such an Iraq could serve as a model for the entire Arab world.
snip
We must also remember why disarming Saddam is critical to American security – because halting the spread of weapons of mass destruction, and ensuring they don't fall into the wrong hands, including terrorist hands, is critical to American security. This is a problem much bigger than Iraq.
snip
Even as we lead the world to eliminate the Iraqi weapons threat in particular and global proliferation in general, we must maintain our resolve in the long-term fight against terrorist groups like al-Qaeda.

I reject the notion that this is an either-or choice. Our national security requires us to do both, and we are up to the challenge. We fought World War II on four continents simultaneously. America worked to rebuild Germany and Japan at the same time, under the Marshall Plan. We waged the Cold War in every corner of the globe, and we won.
http://www.cfr.org/publication/5441/americas_role_in_the_world.html?breadcrumb=%2Fbios%2F9641%2Fjohn_edwards%3Fgroupby%3D3%26hide%3D1%26id%3D9641%26filter%3D2002

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/edwards/edw100702sp.html



December 18, 2002
What we do here is, of course, cast in the context of America's responsibilities abroad. I have said this before and I want to say it again: I reject the false choice between fighting the war on terrorism and containing the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction, specifically the looming danger of Saddam Hussein.

We must disarm Iraq, peacefully if possible, but by force if necessary. At the same time, we must remember why disarming Saddam is critical to American security – because halting the spread of weapons of mass destruction, and ensuring they don't fall into the wrong hands, including terrorist hands, is critical to American security.
http://www.cfr.org/publication/5440/homeland_security_address.html?breadcrumb=%2Fbios%2F9641%2Fjohn_edwards%3Fgroupby%3D3%26hide%3D1%26id%3D9641%26filter%3D2002


February 2003
Not content with expressing support for Powell’s speech, Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina indicated his retroactive support for the Bush administration, saying that he has “long argued that Saddam Hussein is a grave threat and that he must be disarmed. Iraq’s behavior during the past few months has done nothing to change my mind.” Edwards commented, “Secretary of State Powell made a powerful case. This is a real challenge for the Security Council to act.”
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/feb2003/dems-f08.shtml



http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3131295
10/15/03

Were we right to go to this war alone, basically without the Europeans behind us? Was that something we had to do?

EDWARDS: I think that we were right to go. I think we were right to go to the United Nations. I think we couldn't let those who could veto in the Security Council hold us hostage.

And I think Saddam Hussein, being gone is good. Good for the American people, good for the security of that region of the world, and good for the Iraqi people.



November 2003
In an interview on Meet the Press this past November, interviewer Tim Russert asked the North Carolina senator whether he regretted giving Bush "in effect a blank check for the war in Iraq." Edwards replied by saying, "I still believe it was right."
When Russert noted the absence of any Iraqi weapons of mass destruction or any ongoing WMD programs, Edwards insisted that Iraq still posed a threat regardless of whether Saddam Hussein actually "had them at the time the war began or not" because "he had been trying to acquire that capability" previously and therefore posed "an obvious and serious threat to the stability of that region of the world." In short, the Democrats are nominating a vice president who believes the United States has the right to invade any country that at some point in the past had tried to develop biological, chemical, or nuclear weapons capability.
Given that that would total more than 50 countries, the prospects of Edwards as commander-in-chief is rather unsettling.
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/zunes.php?articleid=3074


"Edwards had always been a firm supporter of the war. I was at the fateful California Democratic Party convention in early 2003 in which Dean exploded onto the political scene. Forgotten from that convention, Edwards was booed for announcing his support for the war just a couple days before bombs started dropping.

But then Edwards spoke in support of the Iraq war and all hell broke loose. The entire convention hall resonated in boos, the crowd chanting "no war! No war!" It was an amazing sight, and Edwards seemed a bit taken aback. Jerome thought it looked like '68. Edwards recovered with a line about Ashcroft, but the damage was done. The 20 or so brave souls waving Edwards signs were suddenly radioactive.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/11/10/165059/30

Keep bringing up Clark, and watch what happens. Bad move on your part, IMO.

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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. I've never worshiped on the altar of the IWR. I agree with Clark on the IWR
Clark--when he decided to become a Democrat at age 58 when the Dems were looking for a nominee in 2003--stated in one of the debates that we needed to get beyond who did or didn't, would or wouldn't have voted for the IWR and focus on their plans for Iraq today and going forward. This was after he entered the race against the war, said he would have voted for the IWR the next day, and came back the following day and said he would have voted against the IWR (no political calculation there! "Evolution" on a daily basis is valid; evolution after three years is clearly impossible, though!)

There is a huge difference, though, between changing a position one one issue and changing one's political affiliation in two years. Many people evolve on some issues. Changing one's entire affiliation is unusual. This is why am I amused to see the parade of "Clarkies" constantly obsess over Edwards' shift on Iraq in any Edwards thread (which will naturally provoke a response). Yet, these people see nothing odd about someone who flirted with both parties in 2001 when they were recruiting him to run for office in Arkansas. This was before 9/11 when there was no "need" for a military "savior" on the Democratic side. Let's use some logic here. Someone who wasn't sure which party he would join in 2001 clearly did not have strong ideological positions. Then, two years later all of sudden as the seas parted and he saw a clear path to the Democratic nomination, he reincarnated as a progressive Democrat--even more progressive than Dean. Either 1) he flip-flopped on virtually all issues overnight in order to run for the Democratic nomination or 2) he was a progressive all along but was willing to pretend to be a conservative Republican if that got him to the governor's mention or Congress. Take your pick.

Of course, the Clarkie narrative is that these changes were pure. He was just speaking at a Republican fundraiser at which he praised Bush, Rumsfeld, and co. because he was being nice. Who among us would turn down an invitation to praise Bush and raise money for Republicans at a fundraiser? It was for a good cause, right? Yet, a shift by Edwards on one issue is part of a diabolical scheme on his part to get elected president. :rofl:

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. You can think what you would like.....
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 10:03 PM by FrenchieCat
Don't vote for Wes Clark.....

I don't really give a shit! :boring:

http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2007/01/dissecting_nagourneys_nyt_arti.html

BTW-- One day to clean up some erroneous information makes more sense than waiting 4 years and polls to turn to admit a big ass mistake in FOREIGN POLICY! Sure Edwards says "he has to live with it".......but does that means he thinks that he's the only one who has "to live with it"? "I was wrong to vote for this war. Unfortunately, I'll have to live with that forever."

What about those who wake up to remember that they loved one is dead, won't they have to "live with it" too?

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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. The vote was 77-23
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 10:55 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
Even if Edwards, HRC, Biden, and Dodd voted correctly nothing--absolutely nothing--would have been different over the past four years.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Great foreign policy stance.......
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 11:44 PM by FrenchieCat
Doesn't matter how I vote stance. :eyes:

How many Democrats voted for it? That should be the question....cause the whole point with Bush was to get enough "mandate" to do what he wanted to do. The more folks voted "for" the bigger Bush's mandate became. Ask Joe Lieberman about that. He'll tell you.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. It would look like a weather vane.
All dependent on the prevailing wind.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. That would depend on the poll results.
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 05:32 PM by rinsd
John Edwards on Oct 10th of 2004 .

Ya know before War on Terrorism became the bumper sticker

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6200928/

"SEN. EDWARDS: No, I would respectfully disagree with what you just said, Tim. What I said was it was important to continue to wage an aggressive war against terrorism, to win the war against terrorism, and also to confront Saddam, who was a serious threat and that's why the vote on the resolution, both John Kerry and I still stand behind. It was the right thing to do to confront Saddam Hussein, but the problem is that what happened with the administration--there are really two problems that act in combination. One is they moved their attention away from Osama bin Laden, one of the reasons that we didn't capture or kill Osama bin Laden in the mountains of Tora Bora when we had our troops on the ground, when we had the 10th Mountain across the border in Uzbekistan and we turned it over to the Afghan warlords. That was a mistake. We shouldn't have done that.

In addition to that, instead of planning the way we should have, bringing others into this effort and in addition to that having a plan to win the peace--and we've now seen that they didn't have a plan to win the peace, George Bush and Dick Cheney--there are enormous consequences which is Iraq is now a haven for terrorists.

So those two problems were both serious problems, serious problems that needed to be confronted, but the president needed to stay focused on the war on terrorism in addition to Saddam Hussein. That's what I was saying then. I think that's still right. "

During the summer of 2005 support for the war waned finally becoming a majority of people against the war. Windsock makes his apology.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Damn.....
Is John Edwards a Gemini? Cause it seems like there are two of him. O8) /:evilfrown:
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. You might be confusing him with Wes Clark (R, D-Ark in 01'), (D-Ar in 03') nt
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 08:13 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. No, I'm no confusing Edwards' foreign policy for Clark's........
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 08:23 PM by FrenchieCat
Since Clark has nothing to do with Edwards' foreign policy, nor is Clark running!

But thanks for trying!

(Clark was less than a year out of the military in 2001, where he had been for 34 years serving his country admirably!)

Ps. Please....don't get me started.
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Wow, he didn't follow politics for 56 years because he was in the military?
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 09:27 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
That is a lame excuse for him flirting with both parties in 2001 as they recruited him to run in Arkansas. He was too busy in the military to form a worldview and know which party he supported. Sure. A Rhodes Scholar had no idea what he thought about the world. A Rhodes Scholar with a master's in political science had no views as to the role of government. A Rhodes scholar with an advanced degree in economics had no idea whether he favored Republican economic views or Democratic economic views.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Let me see if I can say this in a way that even YOU can understand.....
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 09:52 PM by FrenchieCat
Wes Clark ain't running, so when he became a Democrat is not the issue of the OP. The op is about John Edwards foreign policy stance. Get it? Isn't this your op? Shouldn't you already know this. :crazy:

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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Is that the new standard?
Clarkies bring up the (Edwards' vote for, not HRC, Biden, or Dodd's. After all, they didn't commit the "sin" of waiting for the result to be known in Oklahoma) IWR in threads that have nothing or little to do with the IWR. Are we now limited to discussing only the OP?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Foreign policy = world = foreign = war = votes = Iraq = Death = money = poverty = big ass mistake
Judgment and track record has everything to do with someone's Foreign policy platform.

What appears to be a new standards is that anything prior to 2005 is ancient history....even if what was done then is still affecting us now.
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. It comes up in threads about haircuts lol
==Judgment and track record has everything to do with someone's Foreign policy platform.==

Sure. This applies to those who were not even Democrats in 2001 and suddenly became progressive Democrats two years later when it was convenient. It is not limited to one candidate who dared not to concede Oklahoma in 2004 before the results were known.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Clark was never an "R."
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 09:28 PM by Clark2008
He, like most people in the South not running for office, never registered with a party because WE DON'T HAVE to in order to vote. Most of the South has open primaries; therefore, most of us are "independents" by proxy. I'm not a registered Democrat, btw. Neither am I a Republican. I'm "nothing." I choose on the day I vote in which primary I intend to vote (sometimes I do vote in the Republican primary to reek havoc).

He also was in the military and actually, you know, abided by the code and refused to be affiliated with a political party (unlike Bush's generals).

On Edit: Please note that Wes Clark admitted when he voted for any Republicans and didn't have to. Your candidate seems to have conveniently forgotten whether or not he voted for Nixon. :eyes:

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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. True or false: he spoke at a Republican fundraiser two years before "becoming" a Dem?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. True or false? Edwards wrote an OP-Ed supporting the War which was posted on the Bush Website...
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 10:39 PM by FrenchieCat
and encouraged hundreds of thousands to support that Bush policy.

So which was worse?

again:
Speaking as an apolitical Freshly retired Former Head of NATO about NATO relations at BOTH a Republican and a Democratic Fundraiser once.....

or

Encouraging a selective War and supporting the worse foreign policy blunder ever made in our history that cost trillions of dollars and helped cause that much more poverty, and endless lives of both Iraqis and Americans, and turned our name to shit throughout the world?

Yes....which?
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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Oh but Frenchie...
Edwards apologized for that. So what if an apology years later won't bring back all the dead or make whole again all those who've been irreparably injured in one way or another as a result of this mess.

Did Clark ever apologize for speaking at that fundraiser?!?!

See, what he did is much worse. And he won't even apologize for it.

Oy!
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Him speaking at a fundraiser isn't the issue. His political affiliation is
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 11:04 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
Obviously, he was not a Democrat in 2001. Did he convert into a progressive Democrat two years later for political reasons? After all, that is why we are told by Clarkies that Edwards shifted on one issue (a side note: when Edwards and other Democrats were opposing the Bush/Republican agenda in Congress, Clark was raising money for the GOP by headlining a repuke fundraiser). So surely a candidate who was flirting with both parties when they wanted to run him for office in Arkansas may have shifted on political affiliation and worldview because he saw a chance to become president. Or is that beyond the realm of possibility?

As to the IWR. Even Clark said he would have voted for it. It is one thing for Obama supporters to criticize IWR voters. It is amusing to see Clarkies do so. Clark himself said we shouldn't obsess over the IWR.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. You can be concerned about all of that about Clark.......
I have already researched the issues, and I don't have a problem with any of it.

That's the beauty of the Internet and forums; the available free flow of information and the ability for each of us to research and make our own determination.

You should go ahead with your concerns, and continue to air them out. That is your option, obviously, and I will never attack you personally for feigned ignorance.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Shhhhhhhhh....
My little girl is going to be a Gemini! She'll be born in three days.

I'm hoping she gets the "intellectual" part and not the "wishy-washy" part. :evilgrin:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. BTW, big congrat on your upcoming "masterpiece".....
Make sure to PM me with news of her birth....and then of course, photos!

:hi:
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I'm going to post them at my blog over a CCN
and here on the Keith Olbermann group.

I should be coming home from the hospital either Sunday night or Monday morning, so check... probably Monday.

:)
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Jillian Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. Now that Edwards has his foreign policy all figured out, is he ready
to debate Biden on foreign policy?

So far - he's a no show.
As is Hillary and Obama.
----------------------------------------------------------
Published: 05/30/2007

Biden Urges DNC Chairman Dean To Weigh In

Wilmington, DE- Today Senator Joe Biden called on the other leading Democratic candidates for President to join him at the Iraq-specific debate event sponsored by the Financial Times and the Center on Politics and Foreign Relations at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS). Senator Biden also called on Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean to urge the candidates to participate in this important event.


“I call on the other leading Democratic candidates for President to participate in this valuable forum, which will allow them to fully explain their plans going forward to get American troops out of Iraq’s civil war without sound bites,” said Senator Biden. “At a time when the President and conservative pundits continue to distort the Democratic record on Iraq in attempt to distract from their failed policies, this debate allows our party to showcase the breadth and depth of our party’s foreign policy expertise and credentials. The American people are looking for leadership and they deserve a real debate on this issue.”
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Superman Returns Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. Jimmy Carter redux
and not in a good way.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
25. !
:rofl:

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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
46. Nice speech
It's gratifying that we have such a strong crop of candidates this year. Hillary, Edwards, Obama (although I worry about his lack of experiance), Gore, any of them would make decent presidents so we're stuck arguing purely over which of them would be better than the others.
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