Huffington Post's Clinton-phobia is really starting to get the best of them...

[Captain Hilts]

the article about the Clintons conspiring to get all the anti-Hillary books out at once is really feable.

Hillary C is not my choice either, but the crap she gets from the Paranoid Right and the Paranoid Left is really weird.

[Davis_X_Machina]

1. Ariana made her mdeia bones....

...trashing Bill, and old habits die hard.

[Tom Joad]

2. Both Clintons trashed working people real hard. so i can't weep for them.

[doggyboy]

4. It was awful how they abused the working class

by creating 24 million new jobs.

[The Magistrate]

5. Indeed, Mr. Joad; Rising Incomes And More Work, It Was Horrible, Horrible

"Our long national nightmare of peace and prosperity is finally at an end."

[madrchsod]

12. that nafta deal worked out real good for the working class

clinton did nothing to protect the blue collar working class in america

[Tom Joad]

15. Not supposed to say that. Nevermind that one of the biggest labor demonstrations

took place during the Clinton Error (WTO demos in Seattle)... i mean Era. Never mind that thousands died because clinton & co. kept up deadly sanctions against the Iraqi people, never mind that he decided to persue a policy of "regime change" in Iraq, and used bombing as part of that policy.
Never mind that Clinton decapitated welfare, far more extreme than anything Reagan did.
Never mind that Clinton signed the telecommunications act that brought ever fewer corporate monopolies for the media.

We must believe. Might help to inhale.

[papau]

16. Interesting list - some would say the say the change in direction on welfare was a sucess - I guess

you do not.

The Democratic Congress of 93-94 gave Clinton the power to grant states requests for ADDC waivers so they could experiment with getting people off welfare and out of culture of poverty that was the result of AFDC with work able persons getting jobs rather than expecting the government to take care of them forever. The successful parts of those experiments became the 96 Act. As with all things the 96 act could have been better - say with massive day care funding. But all in all it worked. Those who could not transition to working were not tossed into the street to die by the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996.

I did not like the mandatory time limit or the block grant approach but by block granting the funds some states used the money for more day care and for the state covering the transportation cost to get to work. And a 57% drop in the number on welfare was accomplished in the job rich Clinton economy - and it turns out the 20 hours per week (or 30 hours in cases where the youngest child is 6 years old or older) was not all that hard to meet for the required 50% of the welfare case load that each state needed to move to work so that they would continue to get Federal Welfare money.

We have a massive inequality in incomes in the US made much worse by Bush - and our less than generous welfare system does not help to solve that problem. But I have yet to see evidence that it makes the problem worse (the stats that purport to show that it does are a bit apples and oranges w/ correlation but weak causation, if any - IMO).

[doggyboy]

18. even with NAFTA, Clinton created 24million jobs net

Employment INCREASED

[KoKo]

49. Tech Revolution did that...and notice how fast those jobs disappeared when Bubble Burst. n/t

[doggyboy]

53. Nope

The jobs created were in a wide variety of industries, and not concentrated in software, though that was responsible for a significant portion of the gains. IIRC, the medical industry was the area with the largest gains

[Skittles]

63. they are not disappearing, they are going overseas

:(

[doggyboy]

19. even with NAFTA, Clinton created 24million jobs net

Employment INCREASED

[DemDem07]

20. It's amazing how the history revisionists want to spin the 90s.

Perhaps the rising tide temporarily cut the oxygen off to some people's gray matter?

American men make 12.5 percent less than their fathers 30 years ago, report on mobility says

ASSOCIATED PRESS

12:28 p.m.(PDT) May 25, 2007

WASHINGTON – The part of the American dream that says a man's children will be better off than he was, has become a dream, not reality, according to an analysis of Census data released Friday.

A generation ago, American men in their thirties had median annual incomes of about $40,000 compared with men of the same age who now make about $35,000 a year, adjusted for inflation.

That's a 12.5 percent drop between 1974 and 2004, according to data from the Pew Charitable Trusts' Economic Mobility Project. To be sure, household incomes rose during the same period although the main reason is because there are more full-time working women, a new report on the project said.

While income is not the only measure of economic mobility, the findings challenge the historical presumption that each successive generation will be wealthier, said John E. Morton, the report's co-author. “Today's data suggest that during a 30-year period of economic expansion, a rising tide did not lift all boats,” Morton said in a release accompanying the report, “Economic Mobility: Is the American Dream Alive and Well?”


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20070525-1228-economicmobility-report.html

[doggyboy]

24. The oldest trick in statistics

Use the best year in history as your control, and don't say a word about what happened in those 30 years in between

[DemDem07]

30. I'm eagerly awaiting your thorough debunking of the article.

Then we can move on to the other hundred or so others I have of a similar nature.

[doggyboy]

31. You mean about how the Clintons are manipulating

the release dates of anti-Clinton books?

Why would I debunk that? It's a well-known fact that the Clintons are behind everything. They control everything. That's why they can get away with releasing the books BEFORE the election

[DemDem07]

32. The income article.

You'll have to forgive my unwillingness to accept your "the stats are skewed" poo pooing of the reality facing blue collar workers.

[doggyboy]

34. Already did

If you want to evaluate the performance of the Clinton Presidency, you should compare 1993 with 2001. The article compares 1974 to 2004.

As far as the reality facing blue collar workers, there's no doubt they are feeling great pain. However, that was not the original concern. IIRC, it was about the working class, and not limited to blue collar workers.

And the stats arent skewed, There's no need to put words in my mouth. I need no help from you to say that the problem is that your stats do nothing to demonstrate the performance of the economy under Clinton's Presidency.

Clinton was president from 1993-2001. The data you posted is from 1974-2004

[DemDem07]

50. lol Best non answer ever!

Pat yourself on the back.

By the way did 93-01 fall in between 74-04?

The only thing you debunked here was your credibility.

[MODemocrat]

33. They did what to working people?

You surely can't expect me to take that seriously. I've never heard Bill Clinton, especially, say
anything bad about anyone. He was brought up in a middle class environment, and he's never forgotten
it. :shrug: :shrug:

They've taken far more insults and back-stabbing, even from their own party, than almost anyone else
I can think of.

[laugle]

10. You are absolutely right! She is just

a jealous Biatch!!!

Can't stand that woman!!!!

I'll never forget how she salivated over Clinton being impeached. I heard she's now a registered democrat! She's more like a registered snake!!

She seems to thrive on negativity.

[WCGreen]

22. Good point which is why I give her short shift on anything she has to

say...

Just another professional squawker who follows the money...

[doggyboy]

3. If the Clintons had the power to alter the release date

wouldn't they postpone the release until after the elections?

Duh

[Captain Hilts]

29. If they're that coordinated and organized, perhaps they DO belong back in the White House!

Making various publishers all coordinate their release date so that they have to compete with each other?

Damn, they're good!

[etherealtruth]

6. "the crap she gets from the Paranoid Right and the Paranoid Left "

I hear you Mookie ... listening to some she is the love child of Joseph Stalin and Benito Mussolini and raised by her nanny Rasputin

[rodeodance]

40. good one

[AZBlue]

61. She's not? I'm sure I saw that in a DU thread here last week....wait, I have it bookmarked.........

[Vincardog]

7. All this book BS is just that BS why write a book full of 6 year old rehashed "SNEWZ"?

It just gives them one more chance to flap their gums and be impressed with their own rude noises.

[Bitwit1234]

8. Adrianna makes no bones about the fact she doesn't like the Clintons

and if you go back into her archives you will see she always jumps at the chance to pound on them.

I think it is terrible that those on the left are constantly banging the democrat candidates. There is plenty and I mean plenty of fodder for those candidates for the republicans.

But I suppose those that want their candidate to get the nomination can't resist the cutting down of the other candidates.


Obama and Edwards along with Hillary are being bashed enough by the republicans, golly I wish the dems would stop.

[aquart]

11. Does she lunch with Maureen Dowd?

Did Bill not notice either of them?

[WCGreen]

23. She's not on the left....

Unless that's where her purse just happens to be hanging today...

[Captain Hilts]

26. Fair enough not to like the Clintons. But why this weird conspiracy theory stuff? nt

[rodeodance]

41. yes, I wish the Left would not give the Right so much fodder to feed on.

[natrat]

9. clinton sucks

[William769]

13. That Bitch is just like a leopard.

[DemDem07]

21. Language like that legitimizes the Ann Coulters of the world.

[Captain Hilts]

27. That's exactly right. Let's not act like Ann Coulter. nt

[William769]

35. Two peas in a pod if you ask me.

[DemDem07]

51. You and Ann?

I agree.

[William769]

52. Ann and the Bitch Huffington.

[Captain Hilts]

25. Well, that was articulate. nt

[William769]

36. Sometimes I just don't like to mince words.

I don't like her, and I never have

[wyldwolf]

14. aww... arianna... so the Clintons should have just NOT fought back?

Why anyone on the left follows Arianna the pretender is beyond me.

Trashed Clinton
Trashed Gore.

[papau]

17. Well Gore wore a brown suit - that evil man n/t :-)

n/t :-)

[Captain Hilts]

28. What's that got to do with the Clintons? nt

[papau]

45. The ladies critical of Hillary dissed Gore for pandering to the tree huggers by choice of suit color

n/t

[Captain Hilts]

47. The Sally Quinns? MoDo's? nt

[papau]

54. Mo first - the the Wash Post - then all of MSM - that together with the Wash Post tour of the

apartment that Gore grew up in, the only emphasis being sold in that latter story was that Gore lied abour being middleclass because the building had been turned into lux condos - were the low points in a very bald attempt by the media to elect Bush.

[Captain Hilts]

56. But Gore wasn't Middle Class. He went to St. Albans, Harvard, etc. His dad was a senator. nt

[papau]

57. Gore's Family history below - the GOP kool aid sold by the media had them as rich -and they lied

So Gore is the second child and only son of Sen. Albert Gore and his wife, Pauline, and did indeed go to St. Albans high school - as did many non-rich kids (I attended a wedding held there 5 years ago and only a couple of the guests were other that middle-class (meaning almost all attending had less than 6 digit income and assets limited to a home and a modest 401k or IRA - indeed the only other common thread was most being Episcopalian). His older sister Nancy went to Vanderbilt University and was one of the first two Peace Core volunteers (unpaid) according to the Head of the Peace core R. Sargent Shriver, later taking the paid position of the assistant to the Associate Director for Planning and Evaluation. Al Gore went to Harvard.

From the New York Times we learn http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/z/zelnick-gore.html that Al Gore's father, Albert Gore, Sr., first ran for the Senate from Tennessee in 1952 after fourteen years in the House. Revolutionary War service brought the family (2 Gore brothers of long ago) parcels of land in what is now Overton County, Tennessee where they grew strawberries, cantaloupes, and tobacco, and never had any slave ownership or help. Per the NYT, the fortunes of the Tennessee Gores were never great. Albert, Sr.'s, parents, Allen and Maggie Denny Gore, grew tobacco, feed, and vegetables, and raised cattle, hogs, and chickens on modest acreage near the town of Possum Hollow. Albert Gore, Sr. - the Dad of today's Al Gore - attended a one-room schoolhouse, took a course out of high school in teacher training, and soon secured a teaching certificate and a job. He earned enough money to enroll at Murfreesboro State, but was never able to afford more than two consecutive semesters in college. Still, he became principal of a three-teacher school before he graduated. Before long he campaigned for superintendent of Smith County schools. He lost that first political contest, but later won appointment to the job, after the man who beat him died. He followed that up with election to the full four-year term. He also found enough spare time to study law, and enrolled at an evening law school run by the Nashville YMCA. His wife was also trained in the law. He was appointed commissioner of labor in the state after backing the winning gubernatorial candidate, Tom Browning. In 1938, when the congressional seat in his home district became vacant, he ran for it and won - his campaign financed by a cousin that owned rental property in Washington, DC. In 1952 he ran for Senator and won - becoming a sponsor of the $50 billion National Highway Defense Act of 1956, and a very strong worker for civil rights (even far right wing Bob Zelnick who wrote a biography of Vice President Gore for the conservative publisher Regnery praised Gore's father on civil rights), but an opponent of environmentalists, fearing the job losses he thought would occur if environmentalists got their laws.

As a Congressman Al Gore Senior invested wisely - including an investment with oil baron Hamer in a cattle-breeding business in 1950. Albert Arnold "Al" Gore, Jr. was born March 31, 1948 in Washington, D.C. and of interest is the fact he was sent back to the family farm every year to work with the field hands. The Gore's lived in a modest middle class apartment on the top floor of a building called the Fairfax Hotel in DC - a building that was more dump than luxury until it was made over in the 90's into luxury condos. And of course the GOP tried to sell the idea that Gore grew up in today's luxury condo - and our media helped sell the lie.

All this is also in the Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/gore100399a.htm and in Time.

[Captain Hilts]

59. Poor kids didn't go to St. Albans. And few went to Harvard. nt

[papau]

60. Financial Aid at St. Albans School

Financial Aid at St. Albans School

overhead shot2

Applying For Aid

St. Albans School believes that a family's financial situation should not prevent a student from attending the School. For 2006-2007, St. Albans granted over $2.2 million in need-based aid, with 24% of the student body receiving some type of aid.

St. Albans operates a need-blind admission policy. Therefore, a family's application for financial aid will have no bearing on a student's application for admission.

The following procedures apply to families currently receiving financial aid as well as to those (including admissions applicants) applying for the first time. The financial aid application is threefold. First, families must submit a financial aid application form, available here, to the St. Albans Financial Aid Office by February 1, signifying they would like to be considered for financial aid.

Second, families must submit, by February 1, the Parents' Financial Statement (PFS) to the School and Student Service for Financial Aid (SSS) in Princeton, New Jersey. The PFS may be submitted online at https://sss.ets.org/. We strongly recommend that families submit their PFS online, as it will expedite the application process and reduce errors. A hard copy of the PFS is also available upon request from the Financial Aid Office. If actual 2006 financial data are not available by February 1, families may estimate information for the PFS.

The third and final requirement of the financial aid application is that families must submit their completed 2006 taxes to the Financial Aid Office by February 15.

All parents--custodial and non-custodial, natural and stepparent--must submit these forms by the appropriate deadlines to receive financial aid. In considering applications for financial assistance for separated or divorced parents, the School considers the assets of both parents before making any award, and will not be bound by the assertion that one parent has disclaimed responsibility for educational expenses.

Both the applicant's family and St. Albans receive the financial aid recommendations from SSS based on a computerized systematic analysis of the family's financial situation. St. Albans' Financial Aid Committee awards financial aid based upon the review of those recommendations.

Any student to whom financial aid is awarded can expect that aid to continue as long as he remains in good academic and disciplinary standing at St. Albans and provided his family continues to demonstrate need and is not in financial arrears. Application for assistance must be submitted annually.

Families with sons in the Upper School may receive a student loan as part of the total financial aid award.

Student Loan Program

While the student is enrolled at St. Albans, no interest on the loan is charged. Interest at the rate of 6% shall be payable in advance and shall be billed quarterly on July 15, October 15, January 15, and April 15 of each year until the first payment of principal becomes due following the student's departure.

* Four years after graduation or departure from St. Albans, repayment of principal is expected to start.
*

* Repayment of all principal and interest is to be completed within four years.
*

* Loans made under this plan cover all or part of the need established through the School.

[illinoisprogressive]

37. Actually they did. NY times has an article backing this as fact.

It's an old trick of the clintons.

[William769]

39. What bullshit. The new York Times actually debunked it.

:eyes:

[papau]

58. LOL - an unpublished Judith Miller New York Times Fact - not worth a bucket of spit.n/t

n/t

[illinoisprogressive]

38. Actually the internet bubble created those jobs. clintons sold out our party.

they promoted NAFTA and if back in the white house will destroy the progressives. they are totally dlc.
they are in bed with Murdoch and corporations.
They do not care about us, about the party or about this country.

[mtnsnake]

42. You consistently come up with some of the biggest crocks of BS on the internet

...talk about someone selling out our party

[KoKo]

48. The internet bubble DID create all those jobs. Loosening of SEC Rules

also helped contribute to Enron, Global Crossing and other "heists" from stockholders wallets. It was a "free for all" under Clinton and has been continued under Bush. Clinton was so busy with investigations that he failed to do anything about it and allowed his own Dems (Dodd and Lieberman) to get through the loosening of regulations which would have stopped those bubbles before they got big enough to explode.

Only in hidnsight can we see what went on while the Media witch hunted against Clintons. That was the BIG DISTRACTION that has cost us dearly. Just like the Corporations have a clamp down on what the Chimperor has done.

[wyldwolf]

55. no, it did not. The bulk of the internet jobs came 1998 and beyond based on lower interest rates

..but the Clinton economic boom was in full effect before that.

Cassidy, John. Dot.con: How America Lost its Mind and Its Money in the Internet Era (2002)

[wyldwolf]

46. wrong again!

The tech bubble didn't kick into high gear until 1998 when interest rates decreased allowing start up capital amounts to increase. By then, millions of new jobs had already been created.

[MasonJar]

43. Bill Clinton was good for the working people of this country.

[w4rma]

44. Except when he was bad for blue-collar working people of this country. (nt)

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

62. NAFTA

eom

[pingzing58]

64. Adrianna is an "American Wannabe" she needs accent reduction I don't understand a word she says.

Where the hell is she from?  What's she doing trying to
influence the Democratic voice when she is really a Repug. 
Wolf in sheeps clothing.  The Devil wears Huffington.  Alien
to the bone.  She should go back to her pent house view!

[Azathoth]

65. Accent reduction?

That's a new one. :spray: