Did Kerry flip flop on "Double taxation of dividends"?

[Touchdown]

Some Repug on the American forum posted this from the Moonie Times, and goes on to say he "has a credibility problem"...linking from an obvious "credible source".:eyes:

<snip>-"Last December, when he was widely considered the frontrunner for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination, Mr. Kerry delivered a bold speech in Cleveland calling for "ending the double taxation of dividends." Five weeks later, President Bush echoed Mr. Kerry's call to eliminate the personal income tax applied to stock dividends. Mr. Kerry promptly flip-flopped. Having long ago rejected the low tax rates he embraced early in his career, Mr. Kerry quickly reversed his provocative position on dividends and made a strategic decision to continue playing the class-warfare card among the Democratic electorate. He's been doing so ever since.
Following the tax relief enacted under Mr. Bush, the top dividend tax rate is now 15 percent (i.e., 15 percentage points higher than what Mr. Kerry endorsed in December); and the top personal-income-tax rate is now 35 percent, 7 percentage points higher than the top rate Mr. Kerry supported in 1986. Yet, Mr. Kerry now demands that both rates be raised to nearly 40 percent, calling their reduction "special tax breaks." He claims that his economic policy would unleash the entrepreneurship of small businesses, which he rightly calls "America's economic engine." But he doesn't explain how raising the effective taxation of small-business S Corporations to nearly 40 percent would achieve this goal.
Once a stalwart free-trader who voted for NAFTA, Mr. Kerry has sacrificed that principle as well. He now uses widely understood code words. These include his promise to "appoint a U.S. Trade Representative who is an American patriot"; his pledge to enforce "strong labor and environmental standards" against America's developing-nation trading partners; and his get-tough declaration that a President Kerry would "order an immediate 120-day top-to-bottom review of all trade agreements." His trade flip-flop is a desperate attempt to appease the protectionists who dominate Democratic primaries.
"-<snip>

If anybody has the stomach for the link....

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20031028-083518-5672r.htm

I was had...He posted that this was the Wash Post, and :wow:

[ShimokitaJer]

1. Did Kerry actually say "double taxation"

No one should ever touch that deceptive term. It's pure Freeper doubletalk.

[tobius]

2. did Kerry flip-flop...? inconceivable. n/t

[papau]

3. End double taxation of dividend & move to tripple taxation- interest & Div

Seems fair

I pay a sales tax on my income when I spend - indeed I suspect I am taxed at least 20 times befor I exchange my work hour for a product.

[AP]

6. Money is taxed when it circulates, not when you see it for the first time.

[papau]

11. I agree - so why is the bump from Corporate shelter to personal a bad?

never understood the evil of double taxation.

Indeed for most rich people, there is none except in the chosen shelters that never are seen to move money to personal.

The Sub S rules on Sub C prevent double taxation for the little guy - so this is strickly a help to those who screwed up the setting up of their foriegn corp matrix and need some cash flow. Of course they also own 90% if the NYSE traded shares, and seeing those dividends taxed is no doubt a bad ---

Indeed I can get at least 20 econ studies that say how much better off we would be if no corporate tax - and no dividend tax - and no income tax - etc. Sort of like free trade and jobs - no one reads those World Bank studies about how "sticky" an industry is after it has been built up by trade barriers - They keep saying how the country is worse off trading "wealth" via trade barrier - for local industry - yet folks suddenly have high paying jobs???!!!??? :-)

EVIL DOUBLE TAXATION --- BOO!

:-)

[GumboYaYa]

14. You will never hear people talking about the evil of limited

liability for shareholders of a corporation. IMO double taxation and limited liability are two sides of the same coin.

[papau]

15. Sub S election gives you limited Liab and no double taxation!

Only the vary rich with poor accountants have a problem.

[GumboYaYa]

4. Yes, there are quotes from Kerry on this issue

that completely flip-flop. If someone calls me on it, I'll go find them again. I've posted them here before.

[redqueen]

5. Do primary voters care?

I think not, based on results so far.

:(

[mmonk]

7. A 40% rate on dividends is too high for 3 reasons

1. Why invest?
2. Elderly retirees may depend on dividend income to pay expenses. You'd be cutting that nearly in half (and a lot of baby boomers are about to retire).
3. The ensuing drop in the markets that would occur once investors find out about such a rate was to be implemented (wouldn't look too good).

He should just stick to a progressive income tax rate period.

[gottaB]

8. Some mischaracterizations in that article

This is the snippet that's being used:

And to encourage investments in the jobs of the future - I think we should excite the capital markets by eliminating the tax on capital gains for investments in critical technology companies - zero capital gains on $100 million issuance of stock if it’s held for 5 years and has created real jobs. And we should encourage the measurement of the real value of companies by ending the double taxation of dividends.

City Club of Cleveland Speech Dec. 3, 2002

Read the speech. There is a world of difference between Kerry's proposals and the Bush tax plan, which he really lays into. Kerry's tax cuts are aimed at stimulating job growth and income growth. Bush tax cuts are voodoo.

Kerry did in fact come out in opposition to Bush's dividend tax cut, saying he didn't support it "now under any circumstances at this moment. I support it in the context of tax reform overall, in which case not doubly taxing income I would think is an important principle."

Also, see the Kerry Tax Plan. In that document, it says:

John Kerry opposes the dividend tax cuts in the 2003 tax bill that result in receptionists paying higher tax rates than CEOs. However, he does believe that middle class Americans should get more from their investments and will lower capital gains and dividend taxes for the middle class.

Here are some articles from CNN Money which are critical, but not bogus:

• Kerry, Edwards and other Dems on Taxes
  
• Wall Street on Kerry, other candidates
  

On Edit: The link works for me, but here's the url to the Cleveland Club speech:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2002_1203.html

[w4rma]

9. Yup. Looks to me like they are doing about what was done to Dean over

Social Security statements made in the past and are taking them out of context.

[mmonk]

10. thanks gottaB

[papau]

12. Confusing us with the facts? -do not show this to the media, or

you will suffer from watching them ignore you.

[Touchdown]

13. Thanks. Your link doesn't work.

The one at the Cleveland Club BTW.

But this tells me everything I wanted to know...that this "editorial" is a bogus hack job.