Do Hillary and Obama's NO votes influence the likelihood of you supporting them in 2008?

[jefferson_dem]

Based on their NO votes on the Iraq War Funding Bill, and how they cast them, are you more or less likely to support Hillary or Obama, or do the votes not influence your support?

[Forkboy]

1. Not in the slightest.

[Bullet1987]

2. I said before the vote yesterday that if Obama voted for the bill...

I wouldn't be supporting him for a while and would have to decide later...but he didn't let me down!!

[quinnox]

3. More likely to support Hillary

Very courageous vote by the goddess and I'm impressed!

[CTLawGuy]

4. yes

i am glad she is doing the right thing, without trying to score cheap political points by fomenting anger.

[kdmorris]

12. The goddess??

Holy shit are we elevating our candidates to an insane level this time around!!!! And it's a wee bit insulting. Did you call all the male candidates you supported "the god"?

[jefferson_dem]

16. This is not uncommon. I've seen DUers refer to Hillary as "Her Majesty" and "Queen"

Tres' creepy! :crazy:

[kdmorris]

19. Creepy is a really good word for it. n/t

[rinsd]

23. Got a link for that?

The only reference I have seen to Hillary in terms of that elevation is Goddess of Peace which is used by mtnsnake (which I think quinnox was borrowing from)

[quinnox]

24. yes

I admit I got it from them, but I shorten it to just "the goddess" instead of the "goddess of peace".

[ShortnFiery]

35. "the goddess" ?!? Excuse me while I put my "waders" on.

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

37. mtnsnake is tongue and cheek with his use of it.

I'm afraid of the ones who REALLY believe it.Mtnsnake is just having fun with it.....I think. :)

[rinsd]

39. LOL...sometimes its hard to tell.

[JNelson6563]

42. I especially love how she led the way

Standing up loudly and proclaiming her opposition to this crappy bill. It takes real leadership to raise the hue and cry like that. You won't see that sort of behavior from any kind of human wind-sock or, say, some lame ass triangulator.

No, to see Hillary on that Senate floor really taking it to the Rethugs and rallying her fellow Dems to stand firm.....

:sarcasm:

"Courageous" indeed!

Julie

[xxqqqzme]

5. no, they both waited until it was safe to vote no

that is they waited until it passed before they voted which means they are listening to their dlc handlers.

[rinsd]

17. Oh was this bill gonna be a close call? Or are you just completely full of it?

The House version had already passed and the Senate version was going to pass overwhelmingly.

The only suspense was how Obama and Clinton were going to vote since they did not discuss it prior to voting.

[jefferson_dem]

41. No shit. Frankly, i'm amazed at the DU folks who are making such a stink about them

not casting their NO votes fast enough. Really. Strikes me as the sort of simpleton red herrings that the rightwing spinsters are known to roll out.

EDIT: Makes me wonder if there's a "bigger" agenda at work... :shrug:

[WolverineDG]

28. My thoughts exactly

If they were true leaders, they would have voted "no" before passage was secured. Dodd did & scootched up a few notches in my estimation, but he's still in my dog house for believing Roberts when he said he'd abide by the Constitution & precedent when it comes to the right to privacy.

dg

[sellitman]

6. Kucinich has NEVER voted to fund this war.

That's why he has my support.

I don't believe Obama or Clinton can claim that.

[Loge23]

34. me too (eom)

[wakeme2008]

7. Read this both Clinton and Obama are sheep not leaders

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3283038

[rinsd]

8. I am glad they voted no but my support level has not changed.

I am for Hillary first and Obama second.

[ElizabethDC]

9. I was already supporting Hillary

and I feel reassured by her vote, but it doesn't really have much of an effect.

[hijinx87]

10. I am a hillary supporter to begin with

this just reconfirms my thinking.

[William769]

11. Other.

More likely to support either.

[jefferson_dem]

14. Fair enough. I'll go ahead and put you in the Obama camp for now...

:bounce: ;) :bounce:

[Colobo]

13. As always, Obama first... but now Hill and Edwards are tied in the 2nd place

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. Hillary always waits to see which way the wind is blowing before she does anything.

The problem I have with Clinton's and Obama's no votes is not just that they waited until it was "safe" to vote, knowing the bill would pass anyhow, it's more that neither of them had the guts to come out against it beforehand. They just kept quiet. That bothers me a lot. I'd have been a lot more impressed with their votes if they'd announced their intentions before the vote and affirmatively denounced the blank check.

[William769]

18. How's your outrage doing on the actual leaders of the Senate?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. I'm outraged by them, too. But they aren't running for President.

And that wasn't the OP's question. Clinton and Obama want to be THE leader. So let's see some evidence of leadership.

[William769]

22. Just checking, but they are still the leaders.

On edit: I guess I'll wait to see you post your outrage in a thread about the Leaders in the Senate. Should I hold my breath or not?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. You dn't have to hold your breath. I don't care one way or the other.

I have already expressed my outrage directly to them. I don't think they read DU.

[William769]

29. Thats all I needed to know.

Thanks for at least being honest. I'll just throw this in with all the other fake outrages that have been going on here for two days.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

32. I didn't say I was outraged at Hillary and Obama. I just said I wasn't impressed

and their no votes wouldn't make me more likely support them. My outrage at the cowardice of the party leadership, however, is quite genuine.

[JNelson6563]

43. I'd like to point out a detail

I have no idea how that poster feels about the actual Senate leadership votes but I think it's disingenuous to point to Senate leadership while overlooking the fact that, sadly, neither Obama nor Hillary showed any real leadership on this vote. Oh yes, they voted no. And that's it.

Frankly for two who are applying for the job that is to get us out of this horrible entanglement as well as save our economy and a myriad of other crucial issues, I would expect more than a silent "no" vote. I want to see passionate speeches on the Senate floor and a rallying of the citizenry. Staying as low profile as possible doesn't speak of leadership and I'd like to thrink wer would experct that from those who want to represent our party in the race for the WH.

Julie

[William769]

45. I have still yet to see the outrage on the leadership in the Senate.

All else is bullshit, or as I have said in other threads fake outrage.

[JNelson6563]

52. I've seen the entire party told to fuck off

Lots of posts totally disgusted with the party. Lamentations of a lack of third party, promises to tell the DNC to get lost re: donations, threats to stay home on election day, the whole bit.

No one's been spared.

Julie

[draft_mario_cuomo]

47. You are exactly right. The presidency requires leadership

If they are applying to be the leader of the nation shouldn't they be expected to display some leadership before they are elected? Or is voting for them a faith-based initiative because we "believe" they will magically turn into leaders when the clock strikes noon on 1/20/09?

[rinsd]

21. They waited until it was safe? Was this bill going to be a close call?

The only suspense was how Obama and Clinton were going to vote, not whether this would pass or not.

I can understand anger at their not being more forceful before the vote but the characterization of their voting as predicated on the bill already passing simply is not right.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. That's not what I meant by "safe." Of course it was going to pass.

What I meant by that was waiting until they determined how pissed off the liberal base would be if they voted yes, since there seems to have been an assumption among a lot of Dems that we could be bought off with some of the other provisions, like the minimum wage increase. Once it was clear that wasn't the case, they could feel comfortable with their no votes. And that's politics, of course.

But if these guys really want to be El Numero Uno, they'd better start showing some guts. By that I mean, if they thought the bill was bad, and they were serious about timetables and cutting off funding and mandatory benchmarks and not giving Bush a blank check (again), why didn't they stand up and say so before the vote, and be prepared to take whatever flak came their way -- and still vote no despite it?

[rinsd]

31. Fair enough.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

46. Here is the scoreboard for leadership on this by our prez candidates

Showed leadership against the bill: Edwards, Dodd, and Kucinich
Showed leadership for the bill: Biden (at least he had the guts to come out in favor of it early)
Remaining silent throughout the caving before meekly voting "no" at the last minute: HRC, Obama
MIA: Richardson, Gravel

The excuse offered by HRC and Obama supporters is that they were "studying" (the bill, of course! It isn't as if they would sift through focus group, poll data and calculate what would politically be the best way to vote for them) so they could not state their position. Clearly, the "need" to "study" did not stop Dodd and Kucinich, who are both in Congress, from leading. It did not stop Kerry and Feingold, who are also in the senate like HRC and Obama. The issue was a lack of will to lead by HRC and Obama...The Clintons' obssession with polls and focus groups is well-known. Obama appears to be of the same mold. Remember him dodging the Gen. Pace "homosexuality is immoral" three times?

[rinsd]

49. How did Edwards show leadership?

By issuing soundbites?

So has Candidate Windsock made up his mind to support gay marriage now that it is gaining in the polls?

Ya know following the pattern of his dealing with Iraq and the DLC.

Here's what candidate Windsock said to Russert during the 2004 election when it was quite obvious there were no WMDs

"I would have voted for the resolution knowing what I know today, because it was the right thing to do to give the president the authority to confront Saddam Hussein...I think Saddam Hussein was a very serious threat. I stand by that"

But polling told him with out the anti-war base he did not have enough of an organization to take on Clinton. Too bad Obama spoiled that little party for him.

[NoPasaran]

25. I'm likely to support Hillary

And this didn't affect that one way or the other.

[Adelante]

26. No effect either way nt

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.0
==================



This week is our second quarter 2007 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend on donations
from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for your support.

[Loge23]

36. They checked the wind first

Both Hillary and Obama voted at the end of the tally when it was already clear that the measure had passed.
Their votes would have been much more meaningful if they were quick on the draw.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

38. Your options aren't mutually exclusive.

You need nine categories, not just five:

H+/O+
H+
H+/O-
O+
No change
O-
H-/O+
H-
H-/O-

At present, many people will be in two of your categories.

[jefferson_dem]

40. Yes, i realize that. Some people may be more or less likely to vote for both candidates.

Mutual exclusivity can be a bitch.

I figured this was more simple and allow for respondents to select the greatest influence of the votes on a particular candidate - i.e. the one's whose support was *most* influenced.

[mitchtv]

44. I couldn't vote as I support neither

but maybe will eventually have to support one or the other. An Aye would have give either a bif, black, points off. So, I guess a "no change" is my option

[AZBlue]

48. I will always support the Dem candidate, no matter what.

[Geek_Girl]

50. A very very tiny bit

But mostly for Obama since he didn't vote for the war.

[LWolf]

51. No influence.

I didn't support them to begin with. I don't support them now. I will not be supporting either one in the foreseeable future.