To all of the people attacking Obama and Clinton

[Bullet1987]

You NEED to read this because your argument is become increasingly stupid and borderline trollish. You complain that they didn't vote before the bill was passed...now there is only one reason this should be an issue for you. You think,

1. The bill would have been close or rejected altogether.

But to believe this argument, you either have to be completely naive...or you're just looking for something to complain about. NO ONE doubted that this bill would pass. NO ONE...The only reason it was even an issue is because it was a question of which Presidential Dems in the Senate would give Bush a blank check (if any).

2. They could have influenced others votes...

This is not very likely at all since most of them probably had their minds made up going in. Everybody doesn't even pay attention to Floor speeches as you could see when they panned out...the entire room was mostly empty!! So the probability they would influence anybody outside of 2-4 (which wouldn't be nearly enough) is extremely unlikely.

You also complain about them not taking a "leadership role" and coming out against it before hand. For the life of me, I don't see the purpose of this. Not to say there may not have been a "tint" of politics involved...but to call them cowards or every other word in the book is exxageration...since they voted against it in the end.

So please, everybody needs to calm the hell down and stop acting like it's the end of the world. I know people are still going to bitch and moan though, and this post will probably fall on deaf ears to people who just want to make everyone else feel bad because they are. I also think there's a small minority that's purposefully trolling topics that deal with both candidates to write inflamming things about them.

[blm]

1. Then let's close down the senate floor if it is no longer a place to publically debate

political and governmental issues.

BTW - your argument MIGHT hold some weight if, in June 2006, Hillary hadn't found the time and the commitment to take to the senate floor to speak against any withdrawal timetable even knowing that the withdrawal bill was NOT going to pass then.

But - she was committed to that position and showed her leadership for that position.

She has evolved since then yet won't make a commitment to fight FOR her position.

This time, she CHOSE to not support her position in any public way, and not because the outcome was certain - that didn't deter her last June.

[wakeme2008]

2. Clinton and Obama are NOT leaders just sheep

read this GREAT post http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3283038

[Bullet1987]

4. Yea...like Dodd and Edwards are SOOOO much more aggressive in their leadership

~sarcasm~

[Miss Chybil]

3. Room empty... minds already made up...

Our government has fallen to apathy.

[NastyDiaper]

5. I think the delay was more to make sure they voted the same way.

I'm glad Clinton and Obama voted no. But those who voted roll-call, with Boxer, Dodd, Sanders, Kerry and Feingold* deserve more credit. Period.

While we are reading about attacking our own, I don't think Harry Reid is about to run and hide. Look at what he said moments before voting, it was pretty harsh, and unlike Boner his emo was real and founded.

The fight continues.

... Ed, to add Kennedy and Whitehouse (apologies for those i can't remember).