Do people realize the bill is only effective for THREE MONTHS

[CTLawGuy]

the world is not going to end because of it. Was it a bad bill? Yes. Did it make the dems look really weak? Yes. but it is not a final victory for Bush because he must ask for another bill in september.

In septemeber the R caucus will NOT be as unified as it is today. Remember they are facing 75% disapproval of bush's position. They won't be able to stand the heat for very long, and they won't sacrifice their careers for Bush's legacy.

We've gotta keep the pressure on the Dems and the Rs this summer. But we can't give up. Pelosi and Reid know now how strongly we feel about this and they will remember in September.

[HereSince1628]

1. Do people realize the sticker price is 3x what was expected as a high

funding level per month in 2006?

[aquart]

2. In September

Dear George will say that the upsurge in violence is a clear indication how desperately afraid of us the "insurgents" are. Which will mean our continued presence is vital. Oh, yes, indeedy.

[CTLawGuy]

8. of course Bush will say that, but what will the Rs in congress say?

NT

[cyberpj]

3. That's long enough to extort the oil privatization benchmark #1:

What Congress Really Voted For:
Benchmark #1: Privatizing Iraqi Oil for US Oil Companies
Submitted by davidswanson on Fri, 2007-05-25 12:44. Congress
By Ann Wright, US Army Reserves Colonel, Retired.

Thursday, May 24 the US Congress voted to continue the war on Iraq. They called it “supporting the troops.” I call it stealing Iraq’s oil-the second largest oil reserves in the world. The “benchmark” or goal the Bush administration has been working on furiously since the US invaded Iraq is the privatization of Iraqi oil. Now they have the US Congress blackmailing the Iraqi Parliament and Iraqi people: no privatization of Iraqi oil, no reconstruction funds.

This threat could not be clearer. If the Iraqi Parliament refuses to pass the privatization legislation, the US Congress will withhold US reconstruction funds promised to the Iraqis to rebuild what the United States has destroyed in Iraq. The privatization law, written by American oil company consultants hired by the Bush administration, would leave the control of only 17 of 80 known oil fields with the Iraq National Oil Company. The remainder (two-thirds) of known oil fields and all yet undiscovered oil fields would be up for grabs by the private oil companies of the world (but guess how many would go to the United States firms given to them by the compliant Iraqi government.)

No other nation in the Middle East has privatized its oil. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, and Iran give only limited usage contracts to international oil companies for one or two years. The $12 billion dollar “Support the Troops” legislation US Congress passed requires Iraq, in order to get reconstruction funds from the United States, to privatize its oil resources and put them up for long term (20-30 year) contracts.

snip...

Now the choice is for US military personnel and their families to decide whether they want their loved ones to be physically and emotionally injured to protect, not our national security, but the financial security of the biggest corporate barons left in our country—the oil companies. ]

More:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/22914

[noamnety]

4. In September they will do the same thing as now.

wait and see. The same justifications will be used. And you will be posting: "the world isn't ending - this just lasts til January."

Meanwhile, death marches on. You can continue to talk about it in abstract political terms that don't acknowledge the reality if it makes you feel better, though.

[CTLawGuy]

13. no

funding bills last until the end of the fiscal year, which is Sept. 30th of every year. the next one will cover almost up until the 2008 GE. If the Dems cave again, believe me, I will be much less understanding.

[rusty charly]

5. We can't give up, but parsing this MASSIVE failure of the dem leadership is

just delusional.

pelosi failed us.

reid failed us.

bush won.

you think he cares about "final victory"? 'kicking it down the block' is their strategy, and they won. america lost. the military lost.

period.

[rhett o rick]

34. I agree. I will never give up, but the democrats have nothing to show

that they are relevant. They went down without even a little fight. How will we win in 2008 when the democrats vote the same as the republicans.

[sellitman]

6. How many of our boys died in 3 months?

How many innocent Iraqis?

I wouldn't trivialize 3 months if I were you.

[CTLawGuy]

11. these three months are sunk

no way under any realistic scenario were our troops coming home before Sept 30th.

[sellitman]

17. It still prolongs their time there.

Let alone the BAD message it sends to the world. A message that now will used against us in the next election.

What is that message?


That given the chance ...we are no better than them.

[CTLawGuy]

24. I understand that this was NOT handled well by Dems

but they will have another chance in september to change that.

[sellitman]

30. All the Reps I voted for here in CT voted aginst it.

Only traitor LIEberman & Repuke Shays voted with the pukes.

No surprise there.

[CTLawGuy]

33. I'm glad my congressman Joe Courtney listened to my email

and voted against this. I'm glad Obama did too.

[rusty charly]

38. tell that to the dead soldiers in september.

i'm sure they and their families will be comforted by people "getting a second chance"...

[CTLawGuy]

40. I will

do you have a Ouija board I can borrow?

[rusty charly]

45. i'll remind you in september.

[onenote]

43. did you support or oppose the timetable bill?

[LeFleur1]

Deaths and Maiming

That's the whole point. How many deaths? How many maimed? Does anyone care about that at all in Wasington, DC or are they so blinded by 'strategy' for the next election that they have forgotten this is about death and destruction.

[snappyturtle]

37. I can't believe I had to scroll down so far to find your

opinion! Good God, troops are dying now, today, and tomorrow and for three more months for certain. I for one have a relative in Iraq...I want him out of this blood bath now and not because of the
cost or the oil privatization whatever!

[pwb]

7. all future Iraq money should be in the regular budget,.

no more emergency war spending. six years is no emergency.

[earthboundmisfit]

36. Agreed. How the hell did the "Supplemental" become the key funding?

Supplemental to what? Why the fuck is a "supplemental" needed, anyway, if the regular budget is done correctly? Is it because if the whole figure for war was proposed in the regular budget, it wouldn't stand a chance in hell of passing? So they think it won't look so bad if they nickel-billion dollar us to death, as opposed to hundred billion-dollaring us to death all at once? Have any of our Dems asked this question, or is this presumed to be just business as usual? Color me dense, but I still don't get it all...

[MadHound]

9. And how many people will die in the time period? For them it will be the end of the world.

And what makes you think that anything substantial will change in the interim? The Dems are still going to be wanting to play political games, with one eye on the elections. Thus they won't be willing to make the tough decision, afraid of being labeled as "not supporting the troops". Bushboy will know this, and thus will stonewall once again until he gets his funding. Dems will cave again. And around and around we'll go, with the death rate spiraling ever higher.

[AndyA]

10. Would you be able to choose which troops die during the next three months?

Would you be able to take responsibility for those deaths? I know I couldn't.

It would be one thing if we were fighting a war against a country that actually HARMED us. If Saddam/Iraq were behind 9/11, that would be one thing. But they weren't. They had nothing to do with it.

Our troops are fighting an unknown enemy. Who are the terrorists? Is it the Iraqi people? The Sunnis? The Shiites? The Muslims?

The war was a mistake. It is a mistake to continue fighting it. We are making a bad mistake worse by continuing to fuel this war.

There is no easy answer, but I believe standing firm against Bush is the place to start. The Dems must smack him down with facts: the war was a mistake, a lie. The troops are doing what they've been told to do, but the cause isn't a noble one, in fact, it's a lie.

It's a disgraceful situation.

I'm not picking on you, so please don't take this as an attack, I'm just very unhappy with yesterday's events. Three months will be eternity for some of our troops and their families.

[CTLawGuy]

12. I know, I understand

but the troops are stuck there no matter what for 3 months. Bush wouldn't let a little thing like no money stop him from keeping them there.

[MuseRider]

14. Do you have family

or friends over there? If not then you might want to think of them when you talk about only 3 months. That is a hell of a long time when someone you care about is in harms way. That is a hell of a long time when so many die or are terribly wounded each month.

Just three months?

[CTLawGuy]

19. yes I found out yesterday one of my old HS friends is over there

and if he must be over there for 3 months, I'd rather he be over there with 3 months of full protection and a chance to come home coming in September, than be over there indefinitely on a shoestring budget becuase Bush refuses to pull the troops out despite the lack of a funding bill.

Do you think bush would let a little thing like a lack of funds stop him? He has money he can use. he'd rather not use it ideally, but he'd rather do it than "lose Iraq" by pulling the troops out.

[old guy]

15. I really don't feel that is likely to happen.

If they still are with * at 75% disapproval not much will change in 3 months. Plus they are feeling pretty good knowing for sure they can make the Dems back down any time they want to. I would like to believe you are right and really hope you are. This is a time I hope i'm wrong.

[CTLawGuy]

27. Rs in Congress will worry about their poltiical careers

NOT about Bush's legacy. They are BARELY holding on now. the moderates are currently hoping against hope the surge works. they don't WANT to turn against Bush, but they will if they must and that time is coming shortly.

[old guy]

42. As I said

I want you to be right but Repubs have a history of saying one thing and doing the opposite. They can pretend to be anything till after they are elected then just vote in lock step with the leadership. These are very dangerous people.

[Warpy]

16. In 3 months (or less!), Stupid will have to come begging again

and that's when those non binding benchmarks will come up. Why haven't any of them been achieved? We were told they were all possible, what happened? What progress has been made on this one? That one? Do you mean to tell me all those antiwar "fringe" types were right, that you aren't serious about trying to end this thing?

I think they were smart, especially in light of that story that came out two days before the vote about how the troops were facing food shortages. They now have the opportunity to throw this right back in the PNAC's ugly faces.

I hope they will do it.

[Strawman]

22. Levin (who voted for the bill) dismissed those benchmarks as counterproductive

"It is not only the absence from this bill of a beginning point for troop reductions which is so troubling. I also am concerned about the benchmarks in this bill because they are not only are toothless, they may actually be counterproductive. Benchmarks with no consequences for failure to achieve them won’t put the necessary pressure on the Iraqi leaders to reach a political settlement. Again, only a law requiring the reduction of our troops can do that. The benchmarks as written in this bill are doubly problematic because the schedule for reports -- July 15 and September 15 -- could be a way of forestalling pressure on the Administration and the Iraqi leaders since those reports are not due until after we are planning to take up the Defense Authorization Bill in June."

http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/release.cfm?id=275102

[Warpy]

39. This war has always been kept out of the regular defense budget

as a way of masking its true cost.

I think Levin is wrong on this one. There is a tremendous opportunity to use these toothless benchmarks as an occasion to rub the administration's nose (and their supporters in the public) in the fact that this administration has absolutely no intention of achieving any sort of stability in the region.

[Strawman]

44. If they don't have enough Republicans on board and kick the can

down the road again (as I suspect they will) what then?

Murtha and others seem so sure that there will be greater pressure on the Republicans to abandon the president in September. What is that report going to tell us that we don't know today? How can it possibly be bad enough to get us to a veto proof majority for anything but more toothless, waiveable benchmarks? I hope he's right because there is little hope otherwise, but it seems like quite a stretch of the imagination to me.

But you raise a good point about the supplementals and not the actual defense budget funding the war. However, I think Levin's point is that due to the timing of the reports, the defense appropriations bill batttle will be a missed opportunity to revisit the war strategy and will forestall the momentum for a withdrawl plan. Now we have to wait until September and see.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

18. You keep on working that...

You are persistent, I give you that. :D

[CTLawGuy]

28. thank you

we need a willing punching bag to try to bring some perspective to this board. and I am that punching bag!

[Totally Committed]

20. What's your point? Do you realize how many will die in those 3 months?

The world will end for each and every one of them.

So, again... what's your point?

TC

P.S. Reid and Pelosi can go to hell.

[CTLawGuy]

21. I do realize that hundreds will die

but not as many as would die if we did nothing because bush wouldn't pull out the troops short of an impeachment threat from his own party.

[rhett o rick]

25. Force the veto. nm

[CTLawGuy]

29. they did that with a timetable bill

they could not override that veto.

[rhett o rick]

23. Disagree. This was an important indicator vote. They democrats

didn't lose a good fight. They didn't fight. They gave in with their tails between there legs. They completely capitulated and bowed down to the king. They been keeping their powder dry for so long there is no powder.

[CTLawGuy]

26. well they did pass a timetable bill

that was vetoed and they tried to override that veto but could not.

don't discount that.

[rhett o rick]

31. Yes and I do appreciate your optimism. But get frustrated at the

rationalizations used by democrats to support this tyrannical administration.

[CTLawGuy]

35. but they also know our anger now

I was listening to David Obey sounding like a wounded cat on the floor defending his actions. I could tell he knew how angry we were at this by what he was saying and his tone. Lousie Slaughter posted on Daily Kos and got 500 hate mail comments. She knows now how angry we are.

They DON'T want this again from us in September.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Javaman]

41. Russ Feingold said the best...

come sept, the pukes will ask for until the end of the year for things to turn around, and on and on it goes.

unless we dig in now nothing will change...oh wait, the dems gave moron* everything he asked. so much for that strategy.

[Hersheygirl]

46. Totally agree

* and Cheyney are probably counting on the fact that they can manipulate these Dems. I for one am not going let my Senators know they failed the people. I am going to call them everyday and let them know exactly, mincing no words, about how I feel. In fact, I also going to write to them and get everybody I know to write.

[ShortnFiery]

47. "the world is not going to end because of it." No, Bush will find an excuse to start war with IRAN!

It's like encouraging the next Caligula or Hitler. We should be jerking this mongrel's chain and caging his warmongering a** up. But instead Congress rolls on it's back and asks for tummy rubs. :grr:

I'm so damn disgusted because STARTING TODAY, the whorish M$M is beating the war drums in favor of *mini-nuking* the hell out of IRAN.

Don't you see that there's no stopping this evil man without *standing strong* against adversity?

There's no limits to their thuggery: blackmail, payoffs, suiciding, torture.

My GOD, have mercy on our souls for our Congress has abandoned the people and anointed DimSon KING OF THE WORLD. :grr: :nuke: :thumbsdown: