I know why the democrats are afraid of a direct confrontation with Bush

[rhett o rick]

He is the king now, yes today. Everything is in place for him to make it official, for the unitary executive to take complete control. The democrats know this and they know there is nothing they can do to stop him. They know that if they challenge the king he will prove he is in total control and they want to avoid that as long as they can. They want to pretend we still have a democracy or they are completely irrelevant. Otherwise why don’t they insist on a time-table? Or insist on Gonzo leaving? Or insist on anything. But when it comes to a direct confrontation, the democrats back off every time. How long will people buy the “keeping their power dry” BS. It is legal now for Bush to spy on any citizen, arrest anyone without cause or representation and torture them. He has already proven this and has also imprisoned woman and children in Taylor, TX for processing.

I have read in here optimists say that all we have to do is impeach him. Notice that our democratic representatives are not even discussing that. Others say that we can regain democracy thru revolution. Let me point out that they have the armed forces, national guards, and police plus all the gun crazies.

I know this is a negative thread. But after yesterday’s betrayal by our elected democratic representatives, this is how I feel. Please tell me I am wrong.

[woodsprite]

1. Sorry, I can't tell you that you're wrong. I think alot are feeling that way. n/t

[old guy]

2. I wish I could say you are wrong

but right now I can't.

[aquart]

3. So give me your plan for taking power back.

With the votes we have.

[rhett o rick]

4. Sorry I have no plan, the democrats have no plan. The Country

has been taken over by the neocon nazi's and Congress with whatever votes they have are irrelevant.

It isn't about my plan. I am just providing an explanation for why the democrats voted with the President. They capitulated completely. Not even begging for fake time-lines. Nothing. Nothing. They capitulated to the King.

Even if they don't have the votes to win, they should not vote to support. You can't have it both ways. Saying you are against the bill but voting for it.

[leftofthedial]

5. democracy died with Ike's warning

the Coup of 2000 was the oligarchy driving the final nail in its coffin

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. He's not a king, he's a paper tiger.

First sign of real resistance and he's going to crumple up and drift away.

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. He might, but his handlers won't

and he's completely in their control. As long as they let him think he's in control, he'll do whatever they tell him.

[rhett o rick]

11. If that is true, why then have the democrats not resisted? He may be

an idiot but his handlers aren't. He recently issued a directive declaring that in an emergency as defined by him, he can take control of everything in government and private. When will you recognize that he is now the king? Congress backs away every time there is a confrontation.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. cowardice.

Some people are scared of paper tigers.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. The hell of it is, the bill COULD have passed and been signed

by * without it making any difference anyway, because all he'd have to do is add a signing statement saying "provided the conditions on the ground allow it", which, of course, they never would. He could have negated the timetable with a single sentence, while passing the bill.

But doing that would bring the signing statements into the light of day, and reveal just how far this misadministration has taken things, and we couldn't have that, now, could we?

[rhett o rick]

14. Besides humiliating the democrats is more fun. By the way, I don't think

he cares if signing statements are brought into the "light of the day". There is nothing anyone can do to stop him. Without republican support, there is literally no way to stop him from anything.

[Forkboy]

9. An optimist lives in the best of all worlds, the pessimist fears that is so.

[rhett o rick]

10. Is it pessimistic to acknowledge that the bill of rights has been shredded?

and the democrats are working on a minimum wage bill?

Was it pessimistic when it was predicted years ago that we would be in Iraq indefinitely?

Is it pessimistic to point out that the government has arrested US citizens and tortured them without any due process? How about domestic spying.

I appreciate optimism but I refuse to drink the koolaid, sorry can't do it.

This doesn't mean i am giving up, quite the contrary. But one of our biggest challenges is to wake up the gullible optimists.

[Forkboy]

12. Hey,I'm on the pessimist side of the equation with ya...

With big helpings of cynicism thrown in for good measure. :)

[rhett o rick]

13. Sorry, I am swinging wildly today. Keep up the fight. nm

[Forkboy]

15. As long as you're swinging!

:thumbsup:

[Dan]

16. There is a plan.

But first you need to recognize that there are Americans citizens and career politicians (either Democratic or Republicans) and there agenda is not necessary the same one that regular Americans have. Question how did this come to be - this new class of citizens - we created it. When we forgot the part of our structure of government that called for citizen-politicians that serve part time within the government (as they are us) as compared to career politicians.

From where I sit, this appears to be the Democratic leadership plan.

1. Education of the masses - because the vast majority of the regular citizens are totally mis-educated. They are so in tune with American-Idiot, Nicole Smith, and whether Paris does the jail - that they have forgotten their fundamental obligation as an informed citizen...being an informed citizen.

2. Exposure of the misdeeds (legal and illegal) of this Administration and his supporters. That is one reason why the Congress switched in 2006. This issue is related to education of the masses. The Hearings of Conyers, Waxman, etc., has the responsibility of exposing the types and character (lack there of) of the people that have been responsible for running our government.

3. Military is unfortunately getting an education on their traditional place and role within our society. No one denies the right of the military to exercise their political rights nor express their views - but as in the 2000 election - they use their positions/titles/medals to take a partisan side, then there is a problem. The military as identified by the MSM identified itself with Bush. Now, they are obligated to fight the war that Bush (and via their support) wanted. A by-product is that he has purged the military of their professionals and promoted 'yes men' that will do his bidding, like he has throughout the rest of our government. Competency is not a requirement, loyalty is.

4. A very sad legacy of this conflict is that lack of health care and benefits to 'make whole' those that have been damaged as a result of this occupation and destruction of a nation that did nothing to us. I will not comment on whether these soldiers may in fact be war criminals by nature of this conflict...that is a future issue.

5. This educational process is inflicting a thousand cuts on Bush, his administration and the GOP. Both short and long term - their core issues of 'family values, security, competency, fiscal responsibility, trust, military preparedness, and America first, etc...' is being shredded day by day.

6. The Christian right - moral majority - is being exposed by their misdeeds... too many to go into, Reed, Haggard, Falwell, etc.

7. There are very few Profiles in Courage on the American landscape within the political class - but individually people are starting to wake up and shout - via the Internet. This has had an effect on the News MSM, they might actually start discussing objectively the news rather than being cheerleaders for one political party or the other. Thank God for the Internet, because a real benefit of this information tool is that Americans are slowly but surely becoming informed members of the world. As a result of Bush, would you ever trust the MSM as your primary source of information again?

8. The Democratic party is correct, Bush will Veto any bill that limits the scope of what he wants to do in Iraq (and potentially if a conflict starts with Iran) and the rest of the Middle East. So, the DEM'S can correctly state that they tried, but lacking a majority their hands were tied. This continues and strengthens their position that this is a war that is solely owned by Bush and the GOP. The GOP probably wanted that bill to pass with limitations as this would have helped their political prospects in 2008, now they are labeled even more with this mess in Iraq.

9. Because of the DOJ scandal that shows no sign of abating - we now have to question not only our legal system, but our election process and how it may have been corrupted for Parisian gain. More of us now will pay attention in 2008.

10. We are getting an education - and we don't like it, but we need it. Never again should we allow a proud 'gentleman C student' to lead this nation, run our government, define our values and morality, and lead by his/her gut.

Sorry for any mistakes made...

Almost forgot - their plan, get back in power, retain power, obtain the majority, and ensure that the system continues to protect career politicians - while confusing regular Americans with lipservice that they care and are one of us.... ;)

[IsItJustMe]

17. This sure makes me feel like our government now is one big sham. Hell, by the vote, I have to be

honest with you, I even wonder now if alot of the dems are not a part of the scam (The illusion that we are still living in any type of Democracy).

Can't help it man. My heart is breaking.