Clinton and Obama votes mean nothing

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

When the outcome wasn't sure, they wouldn't say how they were going to vote. When the bill passed, they then decided to vote no.

If they couldn't figure it out until they were on the floor, and the vote had been decided, they don't have the ability to lead the country.

[rodeodance]

1. Gee, they are damed it they do and dammed if they don't!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. They are vying for leadership positions.

Where is their leadership on this issue? Not to be found. Fingers in the wind. Posturing, nothing more.

[Brundle_Fly]

23. agreed

enough politics, time for someone to stand up.

[roguevalley]

38. I agree with the op. Its when the character moments come that your

character shows. I don't want cowards who can't LEAD. I don't want someone who has to see which way the wind blows. They failed today, both of them.

[firefox_fan]

30. Not really. They COULD have said earlier what they intended to do.

And they would not be damned.

[montanacowboy]

2. POLITICAL ANIMALS BOTH OF THEM

NOT WORTHY FOLKS, SORRY ASS EXAMPLES

I AM DISGUSTED BEYOND ANY AND ALL WORDS

AND NOW THEY WILL MARCH AROUND SAYING HOW THEY VOTED NO.....PFFFFFT

[Bullet1987]

3. People just want something to complain about....I did notice how Clinton came out after Obama

[Ethelk2044]

5. I am Proud of Obama

:woohoo:

[nevergiveup]

6. Geesh

I suppose you would have been happy with a "yes" vote? Stop your whining.

[flpoljunkie]

7. Except that there was never any doubt that the Iraq supplemental would pass overwhelmingly.

[frazzled]

8. The outcome was always sure ...

I don't even know what you are talking about. There was never any doubt that this bill would pass. It was never in question. I hate to tell you, but the head counts are in before the bill even gets to the floor. Heavens to Betsy ... what--you thought this was going to be close?

And what DOES count for you? Someone sitting on the sidelines pontificating about it? If you don't like Clinton or Obama, fine, just say so. But this analysis fails to convince.

[blm]

11. Speaking of 'convince' isn't that what senators are supposed to do on the senate floor

and behind the scenes on important votes like this? You know - CONVINCE other senators AND the public of your heartfelt position on the bill?

[MuseRider]

9. I could not agree more.

Sad and disgusting. Politics before conviction or representation. It is all about getting the job. All about them. Not leadership if you are scared to speak your mind when it matters.

[thatsrightimirish]

10. that's not true

Once Reid and Pelosi agreed to compromise, the outcome was already assured. What Obama and especially Clinton did today took courage because they were two of the only fourteen senators who voted no.

[blm]

13. So why waste their time on the senate floor outlining their opposition?

Um....the outcome of Kerry-Feingold was wellknown, too, last June, but Hillary spoke ADAMANTLY on the senate floor against any withdrawal timetable then.

Why not LEAD on this issue now that she has changed her mind and now believes in it?

[thatsrightimirish]

14. i thought she has made it pretty clear

in recent months in her opposition to the war and support for some type of timetable. Now is her position different then it was in June, of course. But that's politics and that is why I'm reluctant to support her. But to call her vote meaningless I think is absurd. In case if it isn't obvious Clinton gets bashed by everyone on everything that she does and she was willing to vote with only 13 other senators against funding knowing that she will receive huge criticism from the right. (And i guess left) But she represented the people of the New York well today and that is what matters.

[blm]

16. Yes - but she LED when she believed in being against a timetable, and now she

is running for president and wouldn't even discuss her vote beforehand or share her position on it, let alone LEAD a move to convince other senators and the public to support her position.

THAT is the part of the job where she failed today. And if she wasn't running to be a leader that is one thing, but she is, and she wouldn't do it today.

[Egnever]

32. Well said BLM

First time you have heard me say that to you eh?

[illinoisprogressive]

12. Maybe you should know what you are talking about first. Obama always votes at the end

I watch the senate and he never votes early. don't pass judgement when you don't know squat

[MasonJar]

15. Possibly the two wanted to study the bill before making a judgement.

That seems a reasonable decision to me. It would have mattered to you all if the had voted YES so why are they being denigrated for voting NO?

[Tellurian]

18. Sen Clinton waited to force Obama's hand to vote before her..ha ha!

I'll bet Obama asked anyone and everyone how Hillary was going to vote.. :P

:rofl:

[laugle]

19. Tellurian......you are a howl........

When Hillary wins, you should be her press secretary!

kudo's to both of them for a correct political strategy........Obama's learning......LOL

Well we were right about something....they both voted the same....

[Tellurian]

20. Hillary is having fun with Obama now...

which is... as it should be. She will draw him out and see if he will take a stand against her.
Whoopsy, I think I'm channeling the master...I hear him laughing way off in the ether!

Gee, thanks for the compliment...Press Secty.. nobody would get past me.. We'd have Helen in the front row with free reign till the day she dies. And immortalize her seat having it bronzed as an antiquity representing Democracy. She is Aces!

[laugle]

21. Like I said "you are a howl!"

I love Helen and hope the old gal still has more than a few years to go.

But I'll be fair, I heard on C-Span, Obama had voted no and Hillary hadn't yet voted......but I do love your spin........and it does sound logical and possibly true.

But than you and I know who has the most leadership qualities, because It's obvious we are both leaders....I think you get what I mean......

As I've said before....great minds think alike!!

Power to the people!!!!!

[Tellurian]

27. Backatcha!

"but I do love your spin"

No, I believe she did it intentionally.. and probably keeping one eye on Obama and chuckling to herself all the while.
Hillary is a good poker player...I'll bet you, she can beat Bill (most) every time! :)

[draft_mario_cuomo]

42. Sadly, there may be an element of truth to that

[laugle]

17. I remember the 60's and the sense of idealism

and we were gonna change the world....it's long gone now......

Political stategy is needed to win elections and that is simply reality!

Hell, now the 60's hippie's are working on Wall Street.

Unfortunately, "the more things change the more they stay the same!"

But I will continue to have hope that people in this country will do the right thing in the end!

I just heard on the local news that 76% of the country is now against the war, I hope by the end of the year, the repubs will finally join with us against this senseless killing and occupation of Iraq!!

Whether we agree or disagree with ours reps, one thing is for sure.....we MUST have a win in 2008!!

[Tellurian]

22. We will Laugle.. we will!

"we MUST have a win in 2008!!"

The Johnny come latelys are in no position to take on the Right Wing. Noting, there is always the danger, if they can't fight it; they'll join it!

It is the boomers who made the first inroads into breaking the glass ceiling of the Republican Party. Both my parents are Repubs and they are starting to realize Bush and Cheney are not what they are about. They are the last of the Eisenhower Repubs. I read Ike's parting speech. He wasn't kidding, he saw the danger of military might, the dangers it imposed as an eventual takeover of our country and a scourge on the world in the name of greed.

Hillary is the one. The only one that can set this country back on the right path to Peace and Prosperity. Have our good friend, Al Gore in charge of taking care of halting Global Warming and we're golden again. The America we once were, will be the America we're proud of-

[laugle]

24. Amen to that.........

Amongst many good qualities, you are a very eloquent writer.

I think we need more inspirational threads on DU about our candidates and believe it would make our discussion's here much more productive and purposeful.

I think we share the same vision for our country and the people and I will try to articulate it more in the near future.

Too much negativity is bad for our health!

BTW, is Bush's dictorial power grab scarring you? I'm not quite sure what I think since he seems to be such a lame duck. I guess he really wants to bring on the Armageddon......

[Tellurian]

26. not eloquent at all laugle. Strictly from the heart..

There are so many on DU that are a pleasure to read. Their articulation of thought is what I aspire to someday.

"BTW, is Bush's dictatorial power grab scarring you?"

Am I scared- Oh, yeah, very much so. And I'm not the type that scares easily. There is no way Bush and Cheney are going to give up power. They are in it for the long term. And the reason why the Repubs in both Houses could care less what their constituency thinks of their actions. The Evangelicals and Fundys are brain washing their ilk to believe in Bush, no matter what happens. They are being told there will be only one Party..theirs... and it will be the Christians who are the chosen ones to cleanse the country of Islamists and Muslims. Saying the caucasian race is in danger of extinction.. (I inadvertently ordered a dvd from the Nation... scary stuff there.)

I've been looking for property all over the world...if Bush doesn't get ya...Global Warming will..nice choice..eh? ;)

[laugle]

29. You really must stop visiting

Alex Jones website, ie. prison planet, et al. LOL, LOL

All I can say is "bring it on you bastards!!"

Bush the most hated president and person on the planet taking over the world.......in his dreams.

Now......had we not won the 2006 election I might have thought differently. I was really starting to wonder what happened to the people of this country until then.

PNAC IS DEAD.......even the writers of it have acknowledged it's failure!

Bush will crawl back into that bottle he came from; Laura will divorce him; and he will be the piriha of the planet.........KARMA SAYS SO........

But it doesn't hurt to have a plan "B." Is Hawaii still part of the U.S? LOL

[Tellurian]

35. Heh..

I don't know who Alex Jones is..

nevermind, I looked at Jim Webb's website and couldn't find his insights on handling the war.

I'll ask Elmer in the am..

Plan B.. if all else fails, a parallel govt. Start thinking of a name for it.. nothing cheeky, mind you!

[laugle]

41. For fun and some scary stuff;

check him out on google. He infiltrated the "Bohemian Grove" when all the elites were meeting for their annual "worship the owl" ceremonies.

Pretty freaky stuff. He also reported on the concentration camps being built in the U.S. long before anyone talked about it.

I think you will find it very interesting. People try to paint him as a nut, but much of his stuff has proven to be true.

Let me know what you think!

[demommom]

25. I agree

[SaveElmer]

28. The outcome was clear last night...

This is simply another ridiculous "bar raising" which is usually only applied t o Hillary, but now apparently includes Obama...

The vote was 80-14...there was no doubt, there never was any doubt...

[Mind_your_head]

31. Yep

and ALL of the candidates BOTH repub and DEM should/hopefully WILL be held to this high standard. How one votes, and the politics/placement of their votes (among some other things) show their character/true colors ~ proof in the putting (pudding?) ;-)

[DU GrovelBot]

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[mzmolly]

37. ## NOOOOOOOOO!!!! ##

##;);););););););););););););););););)##!

[Cameron27]

34. Actually I think Edwards

strategy of taunting from the sidelines suddenly becomes meaningless. Obama was against the war from the start, Hillary didn't co-sponsor any IWR, and now all three plus Dodd, are against the supplemental. Looks like he's lost whatever edge he might have had in the anti-war department.

[TeamJordan23]

39. I agree

Edwards cheerleading from the sidelines means nothing to me either. He voted for the war in the first place.

Also, I think people are overblowing the fact that Clinton and Obama took time to state their vote. Everyone knew the bill was going to pass, so it doesn't matter when they announced it.

[mzmolly]

36. Oh bologna.

Sheesh.

[geek tragedy]

40. Aw jeez this is some stupid bullshit.

For all those young 'uns who are new to following politics:

When a bill gets 80 votes, its passage is known to be a sure thing by everyone in the Senate before voting begins.

[ripple]

43. Fancy yourself a mind reader, do you?

You have no idea when or why they made their decision to vote no. The point is that they both made the right decision. Speculative attacks such as yours aren't at all helpul, IMHO.