Did you hear.... Obama voted no....

[WCGreen]

[illinoisprogressive]

Iheard. super!!!

[Ethelk2044]

4. I am Happy with His Vote!

:woohoo:

[leftchick]

1. Keith said he voted after it had the votes to pass

I am so not impressed. Clinton did the same. Fucking cowardly politicians.

[Colobo]

2. BS. They did the right thing.

[bling bling]

8. Somehow Obama is the bad guy. Go figure. On second thought,

I don't care to figure some people out anymore. Talk about a waste of time and energy.

[WCGreen]

15. It's not that I tink he is a bad guy...

It's just that it was a little bit hollow and made Obama look, to me at least, just like an ordinary, everyday run of the mill politician...

Nothing special, no real courage, no real politcal capital expended...

Just politics as usual...

Not that there is anything wrong with that...

[bling bling]

22. I don't know about all that.

Voting no did take a little bit of courage when you consider how powerful the issue can be if spun by the Republicans. Kerry's little botched joke when it came to the military may have seriously damaged his changes of even running. That's just one example. I'm sure you can think of a hundred others too. On the other hand, there were a couple DU'ers saying they wouldn't even consider voting for Obama unless he voted no.

So it wasn't as small of a thing for some people as it was for you. Not that there is anything wrong with your viewpoint.

But regardless. Obama is no coward.

[WCGreen]

3. Yea, it sure was a profile in courage....

[blm]

5. No. They both made stirring speeches to convince the other Senators to vote

against the bill.

I heard it.....


in my dreams. Really - I'm glad they voted the correct way, but the game of chicken was a bit much.

[WCGreen]

7. Yea well, it is good politcal theater at least....

[draft_mario_cuomo]

35. Believing they are leaders seems to be a faith-based initiative

HRC has always been a creature of the polls, like Bill Clinton. Obama had courage half a decade ago when he was an unknown local politician but apparently that courage melted away as he went to Washington in 2005 as a popular, ambitious national figure.

[MonkeyFunk]

It only had 14 no votes

there was never any chance it wouldn't pass.

[Zynx]

12. They also knew in advance it was going to pass big. Everyone did.

Safe vote, not giving either of them any points.

[CTLawGuy]

29. how is it a safe vote

how does the mere passage of the bill help obama and clinton politically if they still voted against it???????

[flpoljunkie]

13. There was no question, all along, that the bill would pass overwhelmingly.

[leftchick]

16. true enough

I don't know why all the drama about how they voted after they knew it was safe.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

34. We expect it from HRC but Obama claims to be a new kind of politician

Obama's campaign is largely premised on him being a new kind of politician who will create a new politics for the country. Apparently that is just a lame marketing ploy. His lack of leadership was more disappointing than HRC because the Clinton's worship at the altar of polls is well known.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. I did hear...

Now, would you please tell me what the significance is of his vote?

I haven't been keeping up with all this.....

:hi:

[AlCzervik]

10. giving Bush a blank check to continue his Glorious Crusade against brown folks

with no---no timetables, just some bench marks to progress--Bush decides the progress.

[WCGreen]

11. I don't know....

I was just piling on with all the other Obama threads...

He voted no because he could...

If he truly had balls, he would have come out a head of time like Kerry...

I don't know for sure that he didn't, but my guess is he didn't...

[Colobo]

9. Criticize Reid who voted YES

and the other cowards who did as well.

[AlCzervik]

14. Biden voted yes.

[Colobo]

17. I don't see anyone criticizing him

[AlCzervik]

18. no you don't but it's early still for the west coast. People are probably still

driving home from work.

[jillan]

19. I am - he just lost a dedicated supporter.

[Bullet1987]

20. Clinton conviently came out and voted No after Obama did...

[WCGreen]

24. Another profile in courage....

[Forkboy]

21. You should take it as a compliment

Biden isn't a factor or people would be criticizing him.It says that Obama IS a factor.

[WCGreen]

23. Perhaps it's because Biden isn't treated like a rock star and the

savior of the democratic party and Michael Jordon all rolled into one...

I just think this shows he is nothing more than your average everyday politico...

I still like him...

But to me, this shows his true colors...

[blm]

27. He voted yes AND supported his position openly. Just as NO supporters should have

because that is what the MICROPHONE is there for.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

37. Exactly

[draft_mario_cuomo]

36. Biden at least led and was forthright on this

He was wrong but he did show some courage in coming out early for an unpopular stand while some others were refusing to take a stand.

[illinoisprogressive]

25. I wish those who are ignorant would try to learn things first. obama always votes

at the end. always. He waits until the crush dies out before going up.
If anyone bothered to watch the senate they would know that. But, in your ignorant bliss you decide to pass judgement and find guilty even though you know nothing of the facts.

[WCGreen]

26. So you are saying he always plays it safe....

[w4rma]

30. Exactly. Obama has voted with Hillary triangulation on every single Iraq-related bill except one.

TPM Compare And Contrast: Hillary And Obama's Votes On Iraq
…
Of the total of 69 votes we compiled -- some significant, some not -- it turns out that the two differed on only one.
…
As you can see, Clinton and Obama have voted the opposite way on only one vote on our list: The confirmation of General George Casey to be Chief of Staff for the Army, held just this past February. Hillary voted against confirmation, while Obama voted to confirm.
…
http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/mar/29/comparison_of_hillary_and_obama_votes_on_iraq
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3189244&mesg_id=3189244

[WCGreen]

32. Thanks for proving my hunch....

[ripple]

33. And Edwards co-sponsored the one that mattered the most of all. n/t

[draft_mario_cuomo]

41. RFK would not meet the "2002 forever" standard set by Obama supporters

RFK--the ultimate progressive anti-war icon--supported the Vietnam war initially before turning against it. Using the logic used by Obama supporters, even RFK would not pass muster!

The reliance on the "2002 forever" standard is in and of itself telling. There would be no need to heavily rely on it if Obama did not vote with HRC on 100% of substantive Iraq war bills and 97% of Iraq bills overall...the only thing that distinguishes them on the war is what happened half a decade ago.

[ripple]

42. And you have no idea how Edwards would have voted

had he remained in the Senate. You can't claim your guy would have done things differently than either Obama or HRC, since he has not been in a position to actually vote on legislation and answer to constituents. It certainly isn't unreasonable to assume he would have continued to authorize funding for the war he championed.

And while there are certainly a lot of similarities between Iraq and Vietnam, the global opinion going into each conflict was starkly different. With Vietnam, we were unified with our allies and the motives for going in were unambiguous. Given how disastrous the Vietnam conflict turned out to be, with Iraq, we at least had the luxury of hindsight. It unfortunate that Edwards and the other IWR supporters did not take advantage of it.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

40. So Obama votes with HRC 97% on Iraq and only differed on Gen. Casey

So on the substantive votes on Iraq he is with HRC 100% of the time. That speaks for itself...Thanks for posting this valuable info! :toast:

[draft_mario_cuomo]

38. That is no virtue. You are saying he NEVER leads on anything

At least HRC led on video games...

[WCGreen]

43. Yea, and she was right out there in getting people involved in

selecting a campiagn song...

That shows true leadership...

[CTLawGuy]

28. he didn't vote NO fast enough

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

:eyes:

[snowbear]

39. Maybe he just takes his time? --- Whether it's politics.. or...

Whatever.

[DU GrovelBot]

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