ok, I'm beyond disgusted. How do we move on from here? what strategy takes us past capitulation?

[Lerkfish]

once the beltway dems and the repubs vote on this rubber stamp tonight...if they do...

what POSSIBLE strategies do anti-war dems have to end this conflict?

seriously, I want to know.

[SoonerPride]

1. Congress needs to declare victory in Iraq

I now propose that the Congress unilaterally declare victory. This cannot be spun - like arbitray timelines can - as cutting and running or path to defeat or giving our enemies a timeline of our gameplan of withdrawal or any such nonsense.

We simply say we won the game, take our ball and go home. We say "we've trained enough Iraqis to police the country, we've done our job, we win, bye bye."

The Democrats have gone about this all wrong. Their goal has been noble, but selling how un-winnable Iraq is has been unpleasant. As people flip from Lost to American Idle they glance at the news and see Democrats bemoan how woeful everything is. What a drag. They're the Debbie Downer party. Screw that. Put on a happy face!

The Democrats have taken entirely the wrong tack in trying to end the war by pointing out its un-winnability. That stinks of defeatism and reality. People don't want that. Reality bites.

Instead, they make their own enormous "Mission Accomplished" banner, drape it over the Senate, take a few pictures in front of it and declare the war in Iraq over, because we won it. Then you bring the troops home. Sell it as a victory. We've trained enough Iraqis, we've accomplished our goals, Iraq is fine, success is not "no violence" as Bush himself has said, so we win and we bring the troops home.

The legislation hits the Presidents desk. He can either agree we won or veto it and say we lost or are losing and must continue fighting forever.

I now urge all of you to hit every blog, web portal, chat room, activist organization and urge Congresss to declare victory now as the only sensible way to bring our troops home.


Simple.
Effective.
The best way forward.

I urge everyone to spread the word. We won the war in Iraq. Congress needs to pass this legislation.

[hijinx87]

3. we can't do that because the senate majority leader

declared it lost just two weeks ago.

and that brings up another thorny issue. why we did we fund
something that we just declared a lost cause?

[SoonerPride]

4. Simple

You get new intel, you get new reports from Patreaus, you see progress on the ground.

You issue a news release that we've trained the 400,000th Iraqi policeman.

Seriously, who cares and who would pay attention anyway?

Get a big photo-op, smile broadly now, everyone, aaaaaaaaaand *click* it's done. Send the bill to Bush, let him either agree we've won or he can be the one to call our troops losers buy vetoing the bill. Put him on the side of losing the war. He's only told us 25,000 times that we're making progress. Well, we say "you're right, we made progress to the point we won and the troops are now packing their bacgs and coming home."

Pats on the back for everyone.

[Lerkfish]

5. although I understand your strategic point, I'd rather not become the same type of malingering liars

that we already hate so much.

When you adopt the tactics of your enemy, you become your enemy.

[SoonerPride]

8. Why?

I don't think it would be lying at all.
Why? I'll tell you.

We've already gotten "mission accomplished" from Bush.
We've been told 25,000 times that "we're making progress."

By declaring victory we would endorse Bush's "progress assessments." We simply declare the war to be won and the troops are coming home and send the bill to Bush. He can either veto it and call our troops losers and admit his policy is failed with no hope of ever winning or he can agree with the legislation, save face, join in the party and declare victory and bring the troops home.

It is simple.
Effective.
The best way forward.

I mean look, there isn't anyone over there who will surrender, sign a treaty on a ship, or wave any white flag.
Bush has already said "success is not 'no violence.'"

So the only thing determining when we have won the war is us.

There is no enemy with whom we can ever extract an admission of defeat.

We declare we've won and indeed we have won the war. No one esle will say "you win" so we have to do it ourselves. Sooner rather than later.

It is as simple as that.

[Lerkfish]

10. apparently, we must disagree on a very basic level.

[hijinx87]

2. that is actually a very good question.

I was pondering that one myself this afternoon.

how would congress go about opposing the war without appearing
vacillating and indecisive? you can't fund the thing one day,
and kill it the next.

this capitulation (very good word, by the way) is going to be
the gift that keeps on giving for the f*cking rethugs.

[MadHound]

6. First off, hold your Democratic reps and senators accountable

If they vote for this monstrosity, withhold your vote for them. Show these people that there is a price to be paid for ignoring the will of the people.

[Lerkfish]

7. well and good, however, that does not get us any closer to withdrawal.

even if we throw them out in 2008 for other, better dems, it still means it will take too long, and the longer we wait, the more likely we invade Iran.

[MadHound]

9. Then frankly I'm at a loss for the near term future.

The Dems just took away out last, best hope for ending this war before Bush gets out of office. He realizes now that even if the Dems put up another fight in September, they will again cave as soon as he says "deprive the troops".

For myself, I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing. Protests, writing my reps, writing other reps, networking with people, LTTEs, etc. It is all that I can think of for now, since the Dems have shown that they will ignore the will of the public.

Sorry to be such a downer, but hey, it's one of those moments you know?

[Lerkfish]

11. its not your fault, I'm not jumping on you. I just don't see it happening, in the near term, and I

fear the near term is all we're going to get. I fear the latest executive order turning the entire govt. over to the executive branch in a "catastrophe" defined by the executive branch, and the buildup of ships and units in the gulf region, leads me to connect the dots that Bushco is merely marking time until he bombs Iran, declares the resulting conflict a catastrophic emergency, eliminates or assasinates all of congress, and catapults us into martial law.

I fear this. I do no think this would be rational, but being rational is not a hallmark of this administration.

[MadHound]

13. Oh man, you had to go and bring that up.

:sarcasm:

Yeah, I know, we're looking down the barrel now, and how no way to protect ourselves. Depressing as hell, and as soon as I get off of DU here I'm going to go and play with the kittens to lift my spirits. I recommend this or other such spirit lifting exercises to you and anybody else on this dark day.

But other than that, what can we do in the short term? Prepare for the worst. I'm growing a garden and orchard. Looking into a woodstove and wind turbine. Preparing for the imposition of martial law in my own way, for like you, I see it coming down the pike, have ever since Bush got into office. And once he does we're all in a world of trouble, one way or another. If the political/religious police don't get you, the gas prices and slave wages will.

Peace, for your soul and for all of us. Right now, I'm off to play with the kittens.
:hi:

[SoonerPride]

12. no no no

Good lord, another 10 years will pass with that kind of nothing effort.

Elections have consequences? We already heard that and it obviously meant shizznit.

Nope, changing reps or even presidents ain't gonna end the war in Iraq. Only when Halliburton and KBR can't squeeze another dime from Iraq will we leave, which would be never.