Dean on bipartisanship

[killbotfactory]

"I'm not going to Washington to be a nice guy. I'm going to Washington to kick the right wing out."

Combative Dean has yet to win, but he's not at a loss

As he unapologetically confronts what could be the last weeks of his political career, Howard Dean has not mellowed. The former Vermont governor and defrocked Democratic front-runner still refuses, for the most part, to resort to the insincere platitudes that help other candidates survive their campaign days without uttering an unexpected syllable.

Near the end of a question-and-answer session Thursday morning with voters at the 19th-century Oshkosh Opera House, a man in the balcony tossed a softball in Dean's direction. Identifying himself as a disgruntled 2000 Bush voter, the questioner lamented the president's failure to lessen partisan enmity in Washington and asked Dean what he would do to end gridlock on Capitol Hill.

The standard political answer would have been to piously vow to recreate the Era of Good Feeling in Washington, despite provocations from the opposition party. But such gooey prattle about fostering bipartisanship simply does not fit Dean's nature.

Squinting at his questioner through the glare of the TV lights, Dean said bluntly, "I haven't promised to go to Washington and unify everybody. And there's a reason for my not making that promise. I think it's important to stand up for what you believe in."

Then Dean uttered a few combative lines that encapsulated the strengths and weaknesses of his boom-or-bust campaign: "I'm not going to Washington to be a nice guy. I'm going to Washington to kick the right wing out."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/shapiro/2004-02-12-hype_x.htm

[ibegurpard]

1. How "unelectable" of him.

eom

[gWbush is Mabus]

2. Dean is SO straightforward

you always know where he stands.

[RetroLounge]

3. Shame on Dean

for not going to washington to vote with bush*

[JVS]

36. there are other candidates for that

[janx]

4. Sometimes I think that people don't want a real president.

They want, instead, a malleable figurehead--someone who is just empty enough whom they can project their own qualities and aspirations into.

It's a bit sad, really.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. Dean gets along with Republicans better than he does with Democrats

(When Dean became governor) they (liberal Democrats) were all thinking, oh we got a Democrat back in the governor's office. And all of the sudden they find Howard Dean's worse on spending (than Snelling). The state was headed into a recession at the time. And Snelling before he died, he and Ralph Wright cut a deal on raising the income taxes and (inaud.) the deficit--a few years of austerity. Howard stuck with the plan. And as Dick McCormack (Democratic Senator from Windsor) will tell you of the meeting where he (Dean) met with the Democratic Caucus and told them then, and this might have been before, when he was still lieutenant governor, and told the Democratic Senators, you're never going to win because people don't trust you with their money. None of your great and lofty goals and plans and aspirations will ever be achieved because people don't trust Democrats with their money. We got to prove it to 'em. And that was key. I mean his political enemies for the first three terms were Democrats at the State House, not Republicans. Republicans loved his budgets.
--Peter Freyne, veteran Vermont political reporter
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dean/dean0702/freyneint.html

[Rich Hunt]

6. a liberal dem in Vermont said

...he may be called 'centrist' in Vermont, but that's 'liberal' elsewhere.

fiscal conservative != "the right"

The right is what is dragging this country into the gutter.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. Facts are facts- Dean is more concerned with balancing budgets than people

[NashVegas]

14. Oh, Pooh

I lived in Vermont for 4 years. Grew up right next door.

Contrary to popular portrayals, Vermont is not some über-left, liberal oasis. It's a place populated by middle class self-employed enterpreneurs & tourism industry service workers, cottage industry, farmers, retail workers, rednecks & artists/artisans (often indistinguishable) & gas station attendants.

Vermont is a place of small-scale capitalism & equally small scale government. When I lived there (1990-1994) there were three places in the whole state where you could get a drivers' license, and no traffic lights between Bennington-Rutland. On two lane highways, people pull over if they have a good idea you want to pass them on a curvish road. Except for the environmental acts, it was nearly a libertarian's paradise. "Live in Vermont, do what you want," was the saying we had at work.

[stickdog]

22. And doing what you want is right wing? Pulling over for others is

right wing?

Come on. In VT Jeffords was a Republican. In VT a socialist can become a US Representative. VT has almost universal healthcare, a very fair tax structure, very Green environmental laws and civil unions.

We aren't talking about Montana here.

[Larkspur]

7. This statement of Dean's is so true

None of your great and lofty goals and plans and aspirations will ever be achieved because people don't trust Democrats with their money.

Mismanagement of money by CT Dems in the late 1980's caused me to leave the Dem Party back then. We had a surplus when I moved to CT in 1983 and it was gone before the end of the decade and there were Dems calling for more taxes and increased spending. Oh, and Dems controlled both the Governorship and Legislative during that financial meltdown. This meltdown and loss of confidence in their financial acumen is the reason why Dems lost the Governorship to Weicker and then to Rowland.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sean Reynolds]

11. I'm sure he gets along pretty well with Bush too.

Remember he supported NCLB, the Iraq War, PATRIOT Act.

[ibegurpard]

10. Bibartinship with people like Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont formerly Republican)

Is okay. Bipartisanship with Republicans like Tom Delay and Bill Frist is most definitely NOT okay.

[stickdog]

23. Exactly. Jeffords is the type of VT Republican Dean got along with.

Why is that bad?

[Cheswick2.0]

39. funny; for years our "leaders" have caved on all the issues we care about

Then they tell us they are going to fix something they caved on in the first place and they call it bipartisanship.
Screw bipartisanship, when the republicans were the minority party they said partisanship was what kept politicians from doing too much damage. There is a lot of truth in that statement.

[JVS]

37. Oh he makes deals, how awful. Maybe he should just roll over like Kerry

[Sushi-Lover]

12. I wish I could find the complete answer

If that is all he said it is not a good thing. People don't know what he means by the 'right wing'. Does he mean all Republicans or just extremists. The guy has a record of bipartisan cooperation and he should use it. His response should have been more complicated then that. Make a clear distinction between people that can be worked with in a bipartisan manner and those who can't. That guy should have gotten the answer he was looking for. Dean should have talked about trying to foster civil discourse, bring everyone to the table .. blah blah, and perhaps pointed out that those who would or could not be civil could not expect a seat at the table. I support Dean. I think he could win in the general election and would make an outstanding president, but sometimes I wish he would not be so damned blunt.

[NashVegas]

15. So Now You WANT Tom Delay & John Ashcroft in Power?

Jesus christ & a hand grenade, when will my alarm clock go off?

[Sushi-Lover]

21. Excellent job of reading in between the lines

I wrote it and I didn't even realize that the blank spaces in my post said I want Tom Delay. If I was not clear, my point was that from what is quoted in this article people, especially a disgruntled Bush supporter, will not understand that 'right wing' means Tom Delay and John Ashcroft. Personally, I don't count Tom Delay and John Ashcroft as being champions of civil discourse.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

20. His bluntness is part of what won me over

I can certainly understand what you're saying, and there's no doubt that Dean would have gotten a lot further with some finessing. His precipitous drop in the polls would certainly seem to prove your point, and I wouldn't try to argue it.

Personally though, I think he's saying things that need to be said, loud and clear. I want to kick the right wing out too. Badly.

[Sushi-Lover]

24. I like his bluntness too.

I think it is great, but unfortunately I am not your average voter. I wish the average voter were more informed, more savvy about media bias, and more understanding of bluntness as a virtue. They aren't .. I guess thats why most politicians speak in that way that makes me either fall asleep, cringe, or yell at my TV. In any case, I think Dean would do better if he managed to stake out a middle ground on bluntness. It only irritates me because I think he would make an outstanding president. I want him to get in a position, somewhere even if not the presidency, where he can use his skills to benefit America and protect us from right wing extremists.

[drfemoe]

26. I think we know who *Right Wing* is ..

..."The big problem for the Bush campaign is that it's not clear when the rising tide of bad news will stop, or even slow down. Over the next few months the Rovians are going to have to deal with:

The AWOL flap, which looks like it may also reopen some dangerous questions about the Bush team's past efforts to sanitize the record.

The 9/11 commission, which wants both Bush and Cheney to testify.

The investigation into the outing of Valerie Plame, which is springing leaks again, and may produce indictments before the spring is out.

The transfer of nominal sovereignty in Iraq, which looks less and less likely to come off smoothly on June 30.

The WMD fiasco, which may not be possible to keep on the back burner until after the election." ...
http://billmon.org/archives/001045.html

... I wanted to hear more too. Did you read the entire article at USAToday?

I appreciate his candid style. He doesn't treat people like idiots who don't know what they want. Not everyone is going to *get it*. VTers like straight talk, don't they? Lots of other folks do too. ;)

[Cheswick2.0]

40. you know exactly what he means if you have ever listened to him speak

Dean means the "right wing" which is the name we all use for the fake conservative extremists who now control the party.
And I disagree that the answer needed to be more complicated. Kerry's answers are so complicated he stands on all sides of every issue. If Dean played that same tape dancing game he wouldn't have my support.

I am not interested in anyone working with republicans right now. Maybe when the republican party moves back from the extreme right. In the meantime they stonewall and democrats cave in.. they stonewall and democrats cave in. It is why we keep losing seats in congress.

Funny you should say "civil discourse blah blah blah", that is exactly the kind of meely mouthed nonsense that makes people roll their eyes and stay home on election day. No one believes it anymore and they are sick of having smoke blown up their you know what.

If you want that kind of candidate vote for Kerry. He is as meely mouthed as they come. Or vote for Edwards, he actually believes his lousy votes this past two years were the right thing to do. He is at least honest about that. (It's Edwards "Two Americas" faux populist speech that is pandering and phony IMO.)
Dean is Dean and he is fine just the way he is.

[mzmolly]

13. Go Dean... all the way to Washington!

:kick:

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

16. God I love this guy

I hope he makes it to Super Tuesday so I can vote for him here in NYC. Stuff like this is why.

[NoPasaran]

25. I don't know how they do things in NY

But in Texas everyone who qualified for the primary ballot is still on it, whether they have "dropped out" or not. And come March 9 I WILL be voting and caucusing for Dean.

And yes, stuff like this is exactly why.

[eileen_d]

17. I'm glad Dean is doing something productive today

Sure wouldn't want to see him fall into the trap of believing allegations about Kerry's personal life.

[sleipnir]

18. Go Dean!!

Great to hear someone telling it like it is!! Damn shame we'll never hear this out of Kerry's mouth, because, well, he loves voting with the Republicans. Just look at Kerry's recent congressional voting records! With Dems like those....


Go Dean! I feel a comeback, or at least a brokered convention to stop Kerry. WE NEED DEAN! Now more than ever.

[stickdog]

19. Howard Dean has a BIG problem with the truth.

He often tells it.

[rucky]

27. THIS is how you stand up to bullies.

I learned the hard way. Some people never learn.

[ozone_man]

28. He always knocks my socks off.

A fighter all the way. We may never know what we could have had with this man. Well, it's not over yet, the big states are yet to come and maybe a few potholes for Kerry along the way.

[Edwards4President]

29. John Edwards on Bipartisanship

"But rather than accept my call for consensus, the President just said no.

"There is a saying that if you see a dog and a cat eating from the same dish, it might look like a compromise, but you can bet they are eating the cat's food. That is how things seem to be working in Washington these days. My colleagues and I have tried and tried to find common ground . . . But my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have instead dug in their heels and demanded that unless we agree to every judicial nominee the President sends up here, no matter how unacceptable they are, we are being obstructionist.

"We can do better than this. And we should do better. It is time for this President to stop saying no to judges who respect our civil rights. Let's say yes to judges who will fairly apply the law. Let's say yes to judges who will not allow their extreme personal views to color their decision-making. Let's say yes to judges who will protect our civil rights. I am proud to stand with my colleagues today as we say a resounding yes to fairness, equality and justice."

Excertpt from Sen. John Edwards' Floor Statement in Opposition to Nomination of Charles Pickering, October 30, 2003
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r108:1:./temp/~r108UOBWLx:e53:

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[DannyRed]

30. I am a very strong Dean supporter

and statements like that is why I continue to be on.

However, I have been engaging in a bit of my own "mass pop psychology" in trying to understand why the Doctor is not getting votes....

Aside from the obvious things, like media smear campaigns, dirty political ads, and all the other things we can expect from any political campaign...

I think that the reason is that the Doctor is saying things that make people uncomfortable (something that Doctors do all the time).

I think that even his main campaing slogan "You have the power" makes a large number of people uncomfortable at some level.

Here's why:

1) If we have the power, then we also have the responsibility.

2) That means that it is NOT "all Bush's fault" or "all Cheney's fault" or PNAC or The Right, or Kerry or the DLC....or whatever. Rather it means that all of those things are OUR collective fault. Going to war based on lies, NCLB, and all the other things that are wrong, sure, they were ENACTED by a particular set of people...but how did those people get that power? How did "we the people" allow them to, and go along with what so many knew at one level or another to be wrong?

3) In short, people do not like hearing that things are bad, in part, due to their own complacency...and, in related fashion, people do not like hearing that the only way to fix things is for THEM to get involved and take that power back and use it properly...

Remember, even in the American Revolution, MOST of the colonists were NOT on the side of the Revolutionaries....

[HuskerDem]

31. That's just what this country needs!

More hostility, anger and divisiveness.:eyes:

Newsflash Doctor: you are going to Vermont, not Washington.

Dean accomplished very important things, he should exit with grace. Instead it's like he's looking for the last splinters of his burned bridges with a magnifying glass so he can torch those too.

Please, Judy, come get your husband.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. Hostility, anger and divisiveness.

Check.

[HuskerDem]

38. It's like this, my heart ACHES for Dean supporters at this point

We had the only two candidates in the race with REAL grassroots support. But I have found Dean's style consistently abrasive, devisive, and repellant. I am apparently not alone as the voters have attested, and what I have most mystifying about this whole thing is Dean's and some of his supporters inability to grasp WHY and HOW the Democratic electorate has been so offended over time. Not Mr. McAuliffe, or the nefarious "establishment" but run of the mill Dems.

[Guaranteed]

42. This offends you? Kicking the right-wing out?

Man...Democrats these days.

[madfloridian]

34. We find his bluntness and plain talk just what we need.

We have not heard that in a long long time in this country.

[joshcryer]

35. No one can deny Dean's unbridled bluntness.

All they can do is depreciate it by saying that it makes him unelectable. But that doesn't hold water.

[bowens43]

41. I love this line

"I'm not going to Washington to be a nice guy. I'm going to Washington to kick the right wing out."

This is the kind of thing that made me support Dean earlier in his campaign. I would love to see Dean in the oval office. I just don't think it's going to happen.