We're F*&cked!

[gWbush is Mabus]

Kerry will be the nominee.
The media will ignore the "affair" until after he is officially selected.
Then they will crush him.

Kerry-supporters:
Can't you see why the media wanted Kerry to be our nominee?
They had this dirt for years and were waiting for the right time.
He will be branded a liar, just like Clinton.

Can't you see why the media wanted Dean and Clark to drop out?
We would have no other options left (sans Edwards).

Can't you see why the media made this election all about "electability"?
Once they set that as the premise, they can knock him down with one shot.


HYPOTHETICALLY,
_if_ it is true, you have to wonder why the hell Kerry would run in the first place. Is he egotistical or just stupid?

There is no patience for a sex scandal with the American people, especially with the rise of the religious right.

[eileen_d]

1. You are choosing to believe the worst-case scenario

I won't make that choice. I'm starting to think the "D" in DU stands for "Defeatism"

[agingdem]

19. Exactly...

Instead of laying down we should be pushing back with all our might. Tell the Republican trash machine to "GET OUT OF OUR PANTS!"

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Straight Shooter]

75. Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

.

[Monte Carlo]

2. Stop being so defeatist.

Just remember what Walter said from the Big Lebowski - 'nothing is f-ed, Dude.'

The Democrats must have been prepared for another sex mudslinging attack. They probably pulled every candidate aside and asked them about their sexual pasts. I'm not too worried.

[Guaranteed]

3. "Nothing is f*cked? The goddamned PLANE has

crashed into the MOUNTAIN!"

[11 Bravo]

13. Because of an unsubstantiated rumor in the DRUDGE REPORT?????

My smell test is apparently much more stringent that of some posters.

[Monte Carlo]

15. What plane? What mountain?

I think you're more than a little ahead of me.

[Guaranteed]

27. "I will not abide another toe."

Sorry. It's just my favorite movie.

Although, if this is true, the goddamned plane HAS crashed into the mountain.

[bowens43]

18. Nonsense.

Do you believe everything you read on drudge?

[bearfartinthewoods]

59. has anyone ever kept track of drudge's track record?

does the shit he post usually pan out?

[callous taoboy]

6. Monte...

Thanks for the Walter quote.

[saltpoint]

4. Was the woman a legal adult?

If so, what business of ours is this story at any level?

[tinanator]

9. Four words

Monica Lewinsky, Donna Rice
who's electable now?

[saltpoint]

38. Clinton was elected twice despite rumors of --

-- extramarital affairs (first term) and confirmed affairs (second term).

Hart's challenge to Mondale was damaged by the Rice affair, but not the only factor in his demise. He taunted the press to prove him guilty of infidelity; they accepted.

Here's four more words to your four: Do Not Judge Others.

[tinanator]

42. lol Not for me to judge

Monica scandal was post 96 election. Nevermind the impeachment right?
Hey, Im not for any holier than thou fingerpointing, but when the term "electability" is wielded like a FUCKING CLUB by those insiders who want an Enron/IWR candidate, allow me my chuckles, guffaws, and one huge "I TOLD YOU SO!" when its over. Suckers born by the gross per nanosecond in this country.

[saltpoint]

44. I'd be pleased to converse with you --

-- if you select a topic sentence.

[tinanator]

45. why do you want Kerry?

Hows that?

[saltpoint]

52. This is the DU site. If DU posters support --

-- Democratic candidates, you should not be surprised. Nor should anyone object to DU posters' support for the caucuses and primaries, as hundreds of thousands of registered Democrats vote for our candidates.

My original post in this thread asked what business it is of anyone's if Senator Kerry had an extramarital affair.

I speak in defense of Kerry and anyone else with genitals. I'm sorry you have a problem with that concept.

[tinanator]

56. keep your genital issues private

I see the possible issue pertaining directly to the Kerry Koncept of
"electability" and dripping with irony like frosting on a cake.

[saltpoint]

60. My great aunt taught my sister and me --

-- how to frost a cake. If you use canned frosting, it's pretty thick already and doesn't run.

The trick with home-made frosting is not to use too much butter. Some people use a lot of butter, and it just runs like a torrent down the sides of the cake. You can hardly control it at all -- it just pours off the damn thing like a waterfall. And then you spend the next half an hour mopping the kitchen tile. What a hassle!

So either people should just buy canned frosting -- almost any store has Betty Crocker or Duncan Hines or some other popular brand -- OR -- if you decide on home-made, just go easy on the butter. That's the secret.

[charlie]

50. Clinton wasn't re-elected with public knowledge

of a confirmed affair -- the Lewinsky business didn't break until well into his second term. It affected Gore's campaign, though.

And it's not our judging others you'll have to worry about -- it's whether or not the broad electorate will. But you knew that.

[saltpoint]

55. The impeachment trial in the U.S. Senate --

-- was driven significantly by absence of public support for Clinton's removal from an office to which they had elected him. The Paula Jones and Gennifer Flowers affairs flew in the press for over a decade. The public in effect absolved Clinton of extramarital affairs.

I posted in defense of any person who finds himself or herself in the line of judgmental fire over sex. Period.

[bearfartinthewoods]

62. yeah....there was a point, during the primaries when the clinton

women story surfaced and we all ignored it. do we really want to go there again?? clinton was hamstrung from day one because of this sort of crap and here we go again.

[saltpoint]

74. Hello, BFITW.

I've read your posts on DU for some time now and I like them, and here's my chance to tell you that. Thanks for saying what you said.

All good steps to you.

[polpilot]

54. Ahhhhh....many prefer an honorable man to represent the U.S.

Men, in powerful positions, who can and do 'legally' bang young girls are rarely admired much less respected. Can we start with respect, perhaps, and select one with respectful characteristics?

[saltpoint]

70. When you locate a planet without sexual desire --

-- please let us know. Until then, men and women will bang to their heart's content. Sorry if that bothers you.

FDR also had a mistress, by the way, and I think it's safe to say that he is strongly admired.

[douginmarshall]

69. Clinton made an ass of me

I defended Clinton, I believed him when he said all or the rumors were lies. I believed in him as a person. I got played. Do I care that MY President had an affair? Damn right I do. Will I care if the next one does? Yes.

As a young man Sen. Phil Hart of Michigan was one of my heroes. We knew that he always stood for what was right. We knew that our side was the good guys. Sen. Hart was known as the conscience of the Senate, a Senate office building is named after him. I want to be proud of my leaders. I want to be able to take my 9 year old son and 11 year old daughter to see them and not need to explain their behavior or make excuses for them.

I’m sorry but cheating on one’s wife IS A MAJOR CHARACTER FLAW. Lets not make the excuse of trying to defend something because we feel it is a private matter. If that is the case it is a private matter if Bush was AWOL or not.

Our great nation deserves better. I work with AT-Risk youth. Who do you think is their favorite president and why?

[saltpoint]

71. Bush's military record involves public service while --

-- marital fidelity is a private negotiation between two people.

We disagree that infidelity is a "major" character flaw. It might be an unwise strategy in relationships, but it is not criminal and I am suspicious of people who look down their noses on adulterers. You might want to read the passage in the New Testament regarding the woman taken in adultery. To paraphrase What's-His-Name, "Let those among you without sin cast the first stone."

Take your kids to the Hart Building and let them see government of, for and by the people, including people with human flaws.

[seaglass]

5. The funniest thing about those who think everyone is

manipulated by the media (except themselves, of course), is that they believe the media - and the lowest form of the media at that.

[eileen_d]

10. Bingo!

:toast:

[Atlant]

12. No, we just believe that everything is manipulated bythe media.

And this includes the voters in the General Election.

Atlant

[bowens43]

24. So you don't want the voters to decide...

you want you to decide.

Don't blame Clark's and Dean's demise on the media, they did themselves in.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bowens43]

40. No , they weren't

Clark was a very weak candidate from the start , he had nothing to offer. I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did. Dean screwed him self when he start attacking Democrats. Don't blame the media for Clark's weaknesses and Dean's temper.

[bowens43]

21. Not only that, but when the media has something good to say

about their candidate they parade it around like proud parents with a new baby.

[truthspeaker]

7. two problems with your scenario:

A) Kerry isn't the nominee yet.

B) We don't know if it's true yet.

[xultar]

8. You are correct, ignore the comments to the contrary...they will see

later....

[BidMarx]

11. "Is he egotistical or just stupid"

Undoubtably egotistial, as such would coincide with his public character.


I believe it is highly unresponsible to run for election without first informing your party of all your skeletons, and furthermore, trying to nprevent the addition of new ones.


Obviously his goal isn't beating Bush, as he is running himself: a surely less electable character that even AWOL. The sheeple do not like adultery all that much. He needs to support someone with a shot, which he wont have once the masses get a hold of this.

[CWebster]

14. Both. nt

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BidMarx]

29. Come on now...

I didn't make him sleep around. The only issues Im tackling is how the American people will respond to this and what it says of Kerry to run with this skeleton in his closet. I hardley think thats outta bounds.

[Cheswick2.0]

30. trashing OUR candidates?

John Kerry is not my candidate. He is also not immune to being vetted like everyone else. As the Kerry folks said for months, this is all part of the primary process.

[bowens43]

36. So no problem with using right wing extremist sources to bash Dean?

This drudge we're talking about.

[CWebster]

33. That is an attack and should rightfully be deleted.

[Catholic Sensation]

20. unresponsible...

Obviously his goal isn't beating Bush, as he is running himself, a surely less electable character that even AWOL, as the sheeple do not like adultery all that much.

Please, so I can respond fully to your post, tell me what the fuck you're trying to say.

[BidMarx]

26. Hes less electable than AWOL.

He doesn't care about beating Bush, because he is running himself. He knows he is less electable than Bush among the American people due to their perceptions of infidelity. Yet, he is running anyway, due to ego probably. This is not a responsible action. He should never have gotten in the race if he honestly cared about beating Bush.

[bowens43]

32. Anything to back up your assertion?

No? I didn't think so. It's nice that you take a right wing lunatics word over that of a Democratic candidate.

[BidMarx]

39. Absolutely...

Running while knowing that you have skeletons in your closet, knowing that the American people percieve such negatively, and knowing that is pertinent to beat Bush is unresponsible. His running while being unelectable supports such assertation in itself. We aren't running for class president and and there is quit a bit on the line.


If you do not have a serious chance at beating Bush, but you have a serious chance at being nominated, it is irresponsible for you to run for president.

btw, sorry. think i responded to wrong post here. :) Forgive me.

[bowens43]

46. I ask again, do you have anything to back up your assertions?

Ranting and repeating the same baseless assertions doesn't count as evidence .

Please provide documentation to support the following:

1. Kerry has skeletons in his closet.
2. Kerry knows that he has skeletons in his closet.
3. That Kerry is irresponsible.
4. That Kerry is unelectable.
5. That Kerry doesn't have a serious chance of beating bush.

I'm waiting patiently but frankly , I don't expect anything more then another rant.

[Catholic Sensation]

37. I'll show you my logic if you show me yours

right now Kerry and I believe Edwards defeat Bush head to head, therefore Kerry (and Edwards) care about beating Bush and can beat Bush. Kerry, Edwards, and Dean both are articulate when it comes to stating their positions, unlike the mealy mouthed Bush. There's my logic that Kerry and Edwards, and possibly Dean could both beat Bush, especially Kerry (no offense Dean and Edwards supporters).

Please, given the circumstances surrounding the story, tell me how Kerry is less electable than Bush? Remember, I showed my logic, you have to show me yours.

[BidMarx]

41. Right now, the idiots haven't pickd up their Monday paper,

with a headline of infidelity running on the frontpage.


This is kinda like a Dean supporter using polls two weeks old after the scream to say he will win New Hampshire. :)

Those polls are not relevant anymore. The poitical environmnet will shift

[Catholic Sensation]

47. and they won't get any headlines crying infidelity

because it seems the only source of information is a noted liar

[bowens43]

48. Which paper would that be?

I haven't seen any mainstream sources running with these allegations.

[BidMarx]

51. No, and thats valid...

And thats why I did say Monday, eh? We'll sit back and see I do concede. If it starts getting plastered in every magazine, then I think my point will be well proven.

[bowens43]

28. Huh? What are trying to say?

Slow down, catch your breath. Try again.

[bowens43]

17. Damn! I ran out of tin foil last night......

well off to the store.

[meegbear]

22. And they wouldn't attack Dean?

YYYEEEEAAAARRRRHHHHHHHHHH!
Gimme a break.

[Tweed]

23. Edwards isn't a real option...

[Cheswick2.0]

25. I have no idea if this is true and, believe it or not, don't care

I think Kerry is both egotistical and, while not stupid, may very well have spent some time thinking with his penis. Why would he be any different than many men and women who lose their brain power when hormones kick in?

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[MoonRiver]

34. WHAT affair??

:boring:

[Tinoire]

43. 'reason ... Al Gore did NOT select Kerry = women problems'

If this is true, then these stories are well known around Washington and you are totally correct.

===
The Kerry scandal?

February 13, 2004

BY MICHAEL SNEED SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

---snip---

But the first salvo in an alleged sexual drama came via Internet columnist Matt Drudge, author of the "Drudge Report," (which broke the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky mess) who claimed Thursday a Kerry scandal may be erupting. It allegedly involves Kerry's marital infidelity with a woman who once worked for the Associated Press -- and has reportedly fled the country at the prodding of Kerry.

True? Well, Sneed is told the real reason former Dem presidential nominee Al Gore did NOT select Kerry as his veepmate was because of allegations of women problems, or marital infidelity involving Kerry's marriage to Heinz, heiress to the Heinz Ketchup fortune, whom he met in 1990.

A top source tells Sneed Gore was talking about Kerry's sexual baggage "with a young woman" as recently as late last week!

--snip--

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-sneed13.html

[northzax]

57. it's such common knowledge

that no media outlet, from the Star to the Enquirer broke this story weeks ago. The Boston papers didn't bother during any of Kerry's reelection campaigns, even the most recent close one. No one in the Democratic Party apparatus took Kerry aside and said, "look John, we love you, but this means we can't support you" Baloney.

[Tinoire]

61. I beg to differ. There have been many allegations of Kerry being a

womanizer. People simply assumed that that automatically referred to the days when he was between marriages.

There were allegations about Clinton too but no one bothered with them until it was too late. I won't be had again. This election is TOO important.

Give it 4 days. That's how long it took for Lewinsky to go from obscure Drudge to front-page news.

This is not Rove. Rove would have waited until Kerry was our nominee and our balls were in a vise.

[formernaderite]

66. Because Kerry went on Imus the mainstream press...

...can now report the denial, which then becomes a story.
I frankly can't understand the point he was trying to make by going on Imus this morning. His denial was quite broad, and not quite a specific denial. Whatever the facts are, he'll later be able to state the Drudge report story that Imus was referring to wasn't exactly accurate and that was what he was denying....it's going to be a long primary.

[Jacobin]

49. I tend to agree with you on that

If Kerry starts having these Bimbo Eruptions, it is the end.

Then we are back to the Mantra of "wanting a good and decent man" (even though he's a complete and utter idiot and a psychopath who cannot tell right from wrong and who loves wars) in the WH. And of course, given our electorate, we have a big fricking problem.

If this happens, Kerry will go down in history as the man who enabled the nazification of America.

[Dinger]

53. It Looks Like One Target Is Going Down After Another

Imagine this picture:

10 tin cans on a fence
cowboy from Texa$$ shooting them down one at a time

Any questions?

[Tinoire]

64. There is one he can't shoot down. And every single poster here

knows it. That candidate is Kucinich. I would also think that Dean won't be so easily shot down. From what I've seen, I think we can handle whatever skeletons there may be in Dean's closet. At most, with Dean, there might be a little bit too much service to people and inside pandering to corporations and a little opportunistically jumping on the antiwar band-wagon- nothing that would shock or overly upset the American people- especially not swing voters.

Edwards has also been pretty much untouched by rumors. Please he appeals to all the little old ladies for his youthful appearance and the way he can work a crowd.

[Snivi Yllom]

58. who's f*cked

Not I. But the country is.

The great f*cking of us all and this country started long ago and is continuing whether or not the story pans out.

[WiseMen]

63. MoveOn, MoveOn, MoveOn, MoveOn: Stop Recycling the Slime!!

[Tinoire]

67. You sound like Hillary on 60 minutes. Too bad we fell for it then n/t

[bigtree]

65. Don't pretend to be alarmed. You seem more than pleased to spread rumors.

You seem to be reveling in it.

"I have cultivated my hysteria with pleasure and terror."
Charles Baudelaire (1821–1867), French poet.

[oasis]

68. How many right wing Christian conservatives were going to vote for Kerry?

[CWebster]

72. How many Democrats fell for the "electible" meme?

[Moderator]

76. Locking.....

3. The subject line of a discussion thread may not include profanity or swear words, even if words or letters are replaced by asterisks, dashes, or abbreviations.


DU Moderator