Biden voted for the IWR because he was lied to

[jillan]

I decided as a supporter of his to go back and read his speech on the Senate floor while the supposed debate was going on. (something we may want to do for all the candidates that were there)

Biden, as usual was long winded, so I will spare you the whole speech, but want to bring attention to a couple of things -

first - the lie

I am fully confident if the President decides, in concert with others, war is necessary, he will have to inform them(the American people) before he launches it. I say that because he personally told me that. I asked him. My friend from Virginia may have been at the leadership meeting 3 weeks ago in the cabinet room when the President turned to me after others had spoken and said, ``Mr. Chairman, will you be with me?'' I said, ``Mr. President, I will be with you on the condition that you do two things: One, you make every effort possible to do this under the auspices of the U.N. or the coalition, like we did in Kosovo; and you inform the American people that it is going to require substantial American forces and substantial American money to stay in Iraq after Saddam Hussein is down.'' He looked at me in the presence of everybody and said, ``I will do that.'' So I take him at his word.

second - the confusion!!
The President said he has not decided whether or not we are going to go to war. He said it is his hope that we not go to war. It is his hope it can be avoided. Yet, for the first time in the history of the United States of America, in my judgment, the President of the United States is asking for the Congress to give him the equivalent of a declaration of war--to go to war--before the President has made up his mind. He has not made up his mind. ...
..... A, the President has not decided whether or not to go to war; B, the President says give me the authority to go to war; C, we say on what basis do you want to go to war, Mr. President? ....
.....The details matter. If, for example, we leave here, setting a precedent, suggesting the reason we might go to war is because of this new doctrine of preemption, which no one has explained--no one has explained it.....
.......... Why did the President ask us for a resolution when he sent up the draft resolution? Why? He stated forthrightly why. He said: Because I need to demonstrate that I have support in order not to go to war. That is what he said. He said: You, the Congress, give me overwhelming support. Then the U.N. will know I mean it. Then the Security Council will say if we don't, he will, so we better. That is the reason why we are here. That is the reason, I remind my colleague from Connecticut and my friend from Virginia, why we are here. Otherwise, it is ridiculous--a President saying I don't know whether I want to go to war yet, but declare it....
.....I don't want to be on this floor 6 years from now and have someone stand up and inaccurately say, by the way, back in the year 2002, in October, we adopted a policy of preemption.

The congress was totally given a bunch of doublespeak by this administration. They were told they were not going to war but authorize it anyway. And Biden told the idiot in chief that he would only support this war if they went in with the help of the UN & that bsh would tell the American people the truth on what this war would cost in dollars and lives.

Biden also accurately predicted what would happen to Iraq if things didn't go as smoothly as this administration predicted it would.

So when I hear Biden say that his biggest mistake was not realizing how incompetent this administration would be, I believe him.

[Tom Joad]

1. Weren't we all surprised that Bush didn't keep his word?

Weren't we all surprised that bush was not honest?

Well, no, most of us knew much better.

I wouldn't hire Biden to clean my toilet.

[jillan]

2. Back in the days after 9/11, I don't think that people realized

what an incompetent idiot * is.

And I'm sure Biden wouldn't want to go near your toilet.

[Tom Joad]

3. Biden didn't know? It was plain to millions of people on streets

who were protesting Bush/Bidens/Edwards/Clintons war in Iraq before it started.

[jillan]

4. He was lied to.

Millions of people in the street? Before we went into Iraq?
Don't recall that at all. Link?

[Tom Joad]

7. on Feb 15th, 2003 there was the largest anti-war protest in world history.

In over 800 cities around the world.
six and ten million people took part in protests in up to sixty countries over the weekend of the 15th and 16th; other estimates range from eight million to thirty million.

I would not expect Biden or his supporters to know of this bit of history either. He certainly didn't protest then. he had bush's back.
There were many protest preceeding it as well.

[ariesgem]

22. Link Here....

http://www.ccmep.org/2002_articles/Iraq/102702_pictures_of_anti.htm






There's plenty of links to the protests that were held. Need more?

[jillan]

5. Obviously he didn't know he was being lied to -

millions of people in the street BEFORE the Iraq war?
Do you have a link?

[ClintonTyree]

23. If you don't recall the anti-war marches before the war....

it's time to see a Doctor about your memory loss.

WE WERE ALL LIED TO. It's Biden's, and every other Democrats duty, to sift through the lies to get at the truth. I'm not picking on Biden, many other Democrats bought the same bill of goods. But that's what we elect these people for, to root out the truth from pure government propaganda.

[Tom Joad]

26. Selective memory loss. Shared by the Clinton Biden McCain types

never see the people calling for peace. they just don't exist in their minds.

[RufusTFirefly]

19. Oh puhleeze

Bush may be an incompetent idiot, but he's an effective puppet.

If Bush told me it was raining, I would look out the window just to make sure.

As I hope you realize by now, an unprecedented number of people worldwide took to the streets before the illegal Iraq invasion even began. But many Senators seemed blissfully ignorant of the massive public outcry.

A Feb. 17, 2003 article in the New York Times famously wrote (although apparently not famously enough)...

"...the huge anti-war demonstrations around the world this weekend are reminders that there may still be two superpowers on the planet: the United States and world public opinion."

If you (and Biden) relied solely on the MSM for your "news," you have my sympathy.

Voting for the IWR was wrong in any number of different ways.

The sometimes doddering Senator Robert Byrd was still lucid enough back in Oct. 2002 to see the danger of signing over such powers to the idiot manchild:

"If we are going to make it a blank check, let's make it a blank check right upfront, without all of these flowery figleaves of 'whereas' clauses, and simply say that the President has this power. Give it to him and we will put up a sign on the top of this Capitol: 'Out of business.' Gone home. 'Gone fishing.' Put up a sign: 'We are out of it. We are out of business. We, here in the Congress, are out of business,' may I say to my friend."

In light of all this, I can't see how Senators like Biden can claim ignorance.

[Carolina]

30. Thank you, RTF!

The Democratic IWR Yea voters abandoned their duty, the Constitution and us, the people.

If they bought (and bought is the correct word) the squatters' lies and bag of tricks, then the very least they could have done is listen to the senior Senator from West Virginia who pulled out the Constitution and implored them NOT the cede such power to Bush in haste.

All the apologies, excuses and hindsight speechifying by Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, Biden, Dodd... don't mean squat now. The time for LEADERSHIP was in 2002. The lacked that and political courage then, so what they say now matters little.

All the death and destruction need never have happened and it should END NOW with action, not more empty words.

[snot]

6. We were all lied to. Some of us knew it was a lie --

Unfortunately, most in Congress, consciously or through unconscious desire or negligence, chose to allow themselves to be misled; and that's to their discredit.

REMEMBER: the issue wasn't JUST whether Saddam had or was working toward WMD. It was whether the threat was so large and so imminent that we could not afford even to wait until the UN inspectors had completed their work.

[jillan]

10. That's just it - Biden was told personally by * that they were

going to work with the UN.

[Pierogi_Pincher]

12. It's disheartening to realize that some Dems

went along w/ this and didn't oppose. It can't be undone, only rectified. No words of condemnation, only enormous disappointment that they allowed this war/occupation to be waged. A sinking feeling in the depths of my soul when "Shock and Awe" became a reality. How could they not know this would be a colossal mistake?
P_P

[snot]

8. REMEMBER:

Some of us knew we were being lied to, some didn't; unfortunately, most in Congress, consciously or through unconscious desire or negligence, chose to allow themselves to be misled, and that's to their discredit.

BUT REMEMBER: the issue wasn't JUST whether Saddam had or was working toward WMD. It was whether the threat was SO great and SO immediate that we could not afford even to wait until the UN inspectors had completed their work.

The evidence on that point was never sufficient.

[Tom Joad]

9. Scott Ritter knew it was a lie.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0721-02.htm

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. Heard him speak @ Chapman U. 2 days before

the invasion. He said that we would be defeated by the Iraqis. It took a long time, but he was right about that too.

[jillan]

14. When I look at this article

I have to ask - why was this just an op-ed? Why wasn't he standing in front of the Senate everyday until someone listened to him.

That's what really pisses me off. The people that knew from Tenet to the senators on the Intel committee - why didn't the get the truth out BEFORE our elected officials got a snow job from this administration?

Yes I blame the members of Congress - Biden included, for not doing their homework, for believing the President of the United States...but I blame the people that knew it was all BS equally if not more for not stopping them. We would not be in this mess if more people came forward.

It was after 9/11. The country was in a different mood back then. This administration took advantage of everyone to pass their agenda.... and those who knew didn't do enough. Sorry, that's the other side of this argument against those that voted for this fucking war. They didn't do enough to stop it - to get the truth out.

[Tom Joad]

25. Why didn't the Senate talk to him? I mean, it was in TIME magazine for cryin out loud

I know most of the senate is filled with retards, but still. At least their staff read Time magazine.

Maybe they just didn't care to know. Maybe all they saw were poll readings. Maybe they just think war is good for america.

It was over a year after 9/11 we went to war.

[AtomicKitten]

11. sorry, I'm not buying it

Not from any of those that voted "yes" on the IWR.

There was plenty of contradictory evidence out there available to us lowly citizens to know there was no imminent threat. The IWR was abdicating constitutionally mandated war-declaring powers to a moron and the PNAC cabal that were just itching to invade Iraq.

The IWR is something I just can't get past and my most fervent hope is that we choose for a candidate someone that had no part of that travesty.

However, if the explanation works for you, mazel tov.

[jillan]

15. No - I want an explanation from those who knew the truth for not stopping it

from waking up Congress from it's post 9/11 stupor.

[AtomicKitten]

16. I think we can agree we want a reckoning and

... then to move beyond this tragic, horrible point in the history of America.

I don't know about you but I'm exhausted from the constant flow of outrage witnessing the depths of incompetence, cronyism, and corruption that has had this country in its grips since 2000 (and it really goes much further back than that).

[jillan]

17. The thing is that I didn't get politically involved until early 2004

Yes - I was always interested in politics, but all my information came from the MSM and the newspapers. It wasn't until I started putting my energy into ousting bsh that I realized all the crap that went on.

I know I started a conversation here that got way off topic, but if you go back and read what Biden said- about how confusing this administration made this - it's sickening. Vote for this war so he could have leverage with the UN, and it wasn't Pre-emption. Vote for this before bsh came out and said he was going to go to war. omg. Part of me feels for the Senators for being fed this crap when they were at their weakest.

But regardless - I do blame those who voted for it, and those who didn't stop it equally.

[Milo_Bloom]

18. Weak Excuse

"I was lied to" is not excuse worthy of a senator when LIVES are on the line.

The job of the senate and the senators is NOT to buy what the administration tells them hook, line and sinker and then act surprised that the branch of government pushing for a certain agenda controlled the facts about that very agenda.

In the end, either route disqualifies him for service as President, because either he was so stupid as to not understand his roll in the senate was to act as a check and balance and not to just buy what is being sold to him OR he voted for the IWR and AGAINST the Biden amendment, despite only having one source for information and choosing to ignore the avalance of information to the contrary.

When push came to shove, Biden voted for the IWR and against the Biden amendment and because of that, there is no way he deserves a single vote.

[Wilms]

20. Bush lied?

Who could've known? :shrug:

But cha know, everything changed after 9/11 and, er, but...

:eyes: :nopity:

[Captain Hilts]

21. The war is Bush's fault, not Biden's. Here's the Cong Rec of Clinton's remarks....

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2002_record&page=S10289&position=all

[regnaD kciN]

24. "If you prize it, rationalize it..."

Whatever... :boring:

[Cameron27]

27. I don't agree with your argument.

I think that everyone who voted yes on the IWR has to accept responsibility with no excuses, however those on the Intel Committee, who had direct knowledge of the lack of evidence have more to explain.

I'll say this though, at least you're staying in here and fighting for your candidate and not pulling a swan song where everyone can lament the "smears and lies" against your guy, while labeling those who disagree as concerned trolls, disrupters and just all around hateful people. :thumbsup:

I like Biden, he's a good fighter and I thought he won the debate.

[enough already]

28. 20+ Democratic Senators knew the prick was lying

and voted against it. I'm not interested in Biden's bullshit excuses any more than I'm interested in Hillary's.

[Carolina]

31. TOUCHE!

Apologies, excuses and hindsight speechifying just don't cut it.

We at DU knew better as did many of out fellow citizens. So how come our so-called leaders with law degrees (HRC, Edwards) and much vaunted foreign policy expertise (Biden) were so easily fooled!?

Fool me once ...

[Carolina]

29. Spare me.

I am reading the book The Bush Agenda: Invading One Economy at a Time in which Biden is clearly aware of and even says PNAC won't work! He knew damn well what the neocons wanted to do, all they needed was power (theft 2000) and a reason (9/11 which they let happen and PURPOSELY blamed on Iraq despite the fact that Osama and 15/19 hijackers were Saudis while the other 4 were from Egypt, Yemen and UAE -- home of Dubai which is Halliburton's new headquarters!)

With that background plus his much touted foreign policy smarts and that fact that we, the people saw through the administration's doublespeak, why the hell couldn't he? Why, at the very least, didn't he listen and heed Robert Byrd's urgent plea to have serious debate about IWR and not rush headlong into war? His misjudgment WAS huge in soooo many ways!

Spare me, he wasn't fooled. He was like such other Senate Wimpocrats (think HRC, Edwards, Dodd) who went along to get along when IWR was unfurled as a 2002 midterm election ploy and they didn't want to appear weak! It was sheer political cowardice.

And by the way, I thought he was going to ram the latest bill down the squatter's throat... at least that what he said to fella down here at Clyburn's Fish Fry last Friday night

I'm am so sick of empty words, speechifying and political cowardice by our side. STAND UP and end this friggin war NOW