May I please ask for a little decorum?

[William769]

When it comes to Hillary Clinton. We do not refer to Barack Obama as Barack, we do no refer to John Edwards as John & all other candidates in the debate last night. we call them by their last name not first.

She is after all a U.S. Senator & former First Lady. I think a little respect is due.

Just a suggestion I hope others will follow.

[John Q. Citizen]

1. Excellent suggestion. Perhaps you can send it to Hillary's campaign and

ask them to comply?

[Uben]

2. There's a difference

The others don't have a husband that is an ex president. I think people use her first name to distinguish who they are talking about.

[madame defarge]

3. Her campaign signs say "Hillary"

Her bumper stickers say "Hillary"
Her URL is hillary.org (http://www.hillary.org/).

She wants to be known as Hillary.

[Skinner]

11. Her website is hillaryclinton.com

http://www.hillaryclinton.com

[madame defarge]

17. Mea culpa. n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

31. No, you were right

The "official" website is probably the one Skinner posted.

--p!

[Ian David]

13. Yeah... how dare we call her what she... wants... to... be.... called... n/t

[Atman]

14. Maybe...but it strikes me as a "brand," like "W"

And we all know what the "W" brand reminds us of. Branding is great for toilet paper and mouthwash. We shouldn't lower the candidates to the level of mere products to select from, and if I had any access to the campaign I'd let my thoughts be known.

Why couldn't her bumper stickers simply say CLINTON '08? Does anyone really think they'd mistaken for BILL Clinton, who is constitutionally forbidden from entering the race? And maybe, just maybe, those who DID think that would be more likely to pull the Clinton lever anyway, and that wouldn't be a bad thing either! :)

.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. No. nt.

[Buzz Clik]

5. The problem is that she's Clinton Phase II. "Hillary" identifies her clearly and unambiguously.

[illinoisprogressive]

35. Agreed. It's her way to id herself separte from Bill. It's her claim to herself.

[Virginia Dare]

6. Chris and Keith addressed that last night..

they were commenting about how even the candidates were calling each other by their first names. They made the comment to the effect that by saying "Hillary" or "Barack", everybody knows who you're talking about, as opposed to saying "John", not the same name recognition or some such. :shrug:

[William769]

9. Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking.

I just find it disrespectful. Maybe my age is beginning to show. :(

[Virginia Dare]

18. No, I understand where you're coming from..

I think maybe the candidates are giving in to the overall "informalities" of our society. It seems nobody uses titles or last names anymore. I think all of the candidates are trying to establish their recognizability and approachability, nobody wants to appear too formal or wooden, because the media will be all over them if they do.

Unfortunately, at this point, decorum becomes secondary. :-(

[ShortnFiery]

23. More than disrespectful, it is too familiar. I think this is a bad strategy for her campaign.

Not only do we wish for a President to be highly intelligent, we WANT them to be "set apart" and not highly FAMILIAR. Hell, HRC's campaign would not listen to the likes of a "little person" like me, but I believe that "HRC" - using initials is more apt because it still holds a modicum of standing apart from a crowd instead of calling out a "young girl's name" during recess.

On edit: BTW, I think "I like Ike" was an exception because he proved himself as a lauded war General and a lot of warm emotions were bantered around after WWII. :shrug:

[John Q. Citizen]

26. Visit her website and you will see that they refer to her as Hillary

8 times on the front page and as Hillary Clinton just once.

And never as Senator Clinton.

It's her branding strategy.

[Colobo]

39. Tell her campaign to call her "Sen. Clinton"

[Igel]

48. "Vote for Ike".

At least that wasn't as opaque for future generations as "Tippecanoe and Tyler too".

"Mrs. Clinton" sounds bad to my ears--too old fashioned. So does "Ms. Clinton"--too much in denial of her husband, William. Ahem. "Senator Clinton" stands on formalities a bit much. "Vote for Clinton" sounds ... wrong.

I don't much like "Hillary", but I'm stuck with it. At least it sounds like she's trying to appeal to commoners.

[Atman]

7. I've made it a point only to refer to her as "Clinton" or "Mrs. Clinton"

Not always, I admit, but for the past few months at least. I agree with what you're saying. Calling her "Hillary" is no better than Bush calling Rice "Condi." It shows disrespect, and a subconscious subjugation, almost a way of keeping her on a different level than the men-folk. Thanks for a good post.

.

[mitchtv]

54. Try Senator Clinton

I am not supporter, but I do defend any Dem against the 5th column Dems who think they can help their cause by trashing Dem candidates other than their own. That's when I insist on formal title "Senator"

[ShortnFiery]

8. I always use her initials "HRC." That, IMO, is the best compromise.

After all, she'll be the first to remind you that she's both a Senator and Bill's wife. :shrug:

[Phredicles]

15. I've been referring to her as "HClinton",

hoping it's a reasonable way to distinguish her from, you know, BClinton.

[ddeclue]

19. Will that make her the next "initial" President like "W" will we simply call her "H"? n/t

[ShortnFiery]

20. Only in the DLC's wild-assed and highly delusional dreamworld.

:rofl:

Seriously, HClinton sounds like a pretty good name to ID her.

[ddeclue]

22. Perhaps I shoulld have used the irony smiley...

I wasn't being serious...

[ShortnFiery]

24. Oh, sorry.

I'm embarrassed too ... my preference for Obama SLIP is showing ... :blush:

[Ian David]

10. What if we just call her "Mars Attacks"?

Ack! Ack!

[marmar]

12. Good suggestion, but when I see the last name Clinton.....

the first one that pops into my head is still Bill, not Hillary, so I think that's a big reason she's often referred to as such in posts.

[ddeclue]

16. Well actually, HILLARY's own campaign refers to her as "Hillary"

Her bumper stickers don't say "Clinton '08" they say "Hillary '08" and I tend to refer to Senator Obama as Barack from time to time and being an Edwards supporter and organizer who was involved in the Kerry Edwards campaign in '04 in Orlando and have had the opportunity to see him speak on numerous occasions, I sometimes refer to John Edwards as simply "John".

Hillary uses "Hillary" rather than "Clinton" for the simple reason that she wants to stake out her own brand name independent of Bill Clinton (someone I sometimes ALSO refer to as "Bill"). It also allows her to be more warm and human to the voters.

Do I always refer to a politician by their title or last name? No. Do I mean any disrespect when I use someone's first name? No. Do I make sure to use titles when it matters, such as in a public setting where a politician is acting in their official capacity? Yes.

Being informal and using people's first names is just a very American thing to do.

Respectfully,
Doug De Clue
Orlando, FL

[Connie_Corleone]

21. Her own campaign refers to her as Hillary.

I use Hillary because Clinton can refer to her or her husband. And, I'm not going to write Hillary Clinton every time I refer to her.

[Warpy]

25. Askin' aint gettin'

Unfortunately, identifying her by her last name is a losing proposition since both she and her husband are prominent in politics. If she had retained the name Rodham, I'm sure she'd automatically be afforded the respect you so desire.

Since typing "Hillaryclinton" for every reference gets tedious, my own compromise is to refer to Hillary Clinton at the top of the post, then continue to refer to her throughout the post by her last name.

I suggest this as the proper form so folks will know which Clinton the post refers to. If both are within the post, we are stuck typing first name and surname with every reference.

The two Thompsons running on the GOP side will have a similar problem. We need to know which one the post is laughing at.

[Bitwit1234]

27. One thing about respect

no where....absolutely no where ... do you see Hillary Clinton make snide remarks about Obama the way he is making them about her. And you don't see anybody posting those snide comments. Look at the way he sneered when the phone rang and he said'''''is that Hillary''''''. He is losing a heck of a lot of people who thought he was above the republican smear and slur tatics....

I was never for or against him or Hillary but I think John Edwards has the best chance, Hillary being a woman and Obama being black no matter what they say, a lot of people are not going to vote for them for this reason and this reason alone. And it is a damn shame, because either of them would make a wonderful president. But they aren't going to have a chance to prove it.

[Captain_Nemo]

28. She was listed under 'R' in the WH rolodex until the right wingers spewing hate about that.

You are correct. The usage of Senator's Clinton name is sexist and yet, it distinguishes her from Bill Clinton. It was sexist in it's inception. Yet, she made it work for her.

I reminded someone recently about Senator Clinton's name history:
WHen she first entered the WH the right wingers were aghast when they found out she was listed under 'R" in the WH rolodex.

THe public outcry was so vehement she had to change it to 'C" and keep Rodham as her middle name.

So I don't think she had much choice in utilizing 'Hillary". Thank goodness it worked for her.

[ShortnFiery]

29. "Thank goodness it worked for her."

But is it working for her now?

[Captain_Nemo]

37. YEs, I believe so. Our society is so sexist they accept a woman on a first name basis.

BEcasue she had Bill's last name and she was so powerful they always referred to her as Hillary.

[TlalocW]

30. She's, "Hillary." Her campaign is trying to get her one-name status

Like Cher or Twiggy.

TlalocW

[lojasmo]

32. Why? Do you refer to BUsh as "the president"?

How about Mrs. Bush?

How about Senator Clinton's republican colleagues? How about Senator Lieberman?

She deserves as much respect as each individual believes she has earned.

Me....I agree with you....others may not, and they are free to call her what they will.

[closeupready]

33. I don't understand how calling her by her first name is disrespectful.

That doesn't make sense.

[Captain_Nemo]

40. It is a sexist practice. Traditionally men have always been referred to by their last names or

as Mr. __.

On the other side of things women were alwyas referred to by their first names - it implies women are not to be taken seriously or they don't have the power to be referred to by their last name.

This was common practice prior to the women's liberation movement.

The owmen's liberation movement xchanged this social practice. Yet, will still have residual.

[closeupready]

41. I understand your point. But in her case, that's how she's encouraged voters to think of her.

As "Hillary". Or even Hill. She has cultivated a warm, personable image. In her case, it does not seem sexist at all.

To some extent, even the fact that those who dislike her refer to her by first name indicates a certain amount of respect born of familiarity, in my opinion.

[Captain_Nemo]

45. If she kept the rolodex "R" and went by Rodham we wouldn't be having this converasation

Yes, at this point you are right. However, if the right wingers hadn't spewed about Hillary being listed in the White House Rolodex under R" for Rodham. We would probably be referring to her as Rodham - since that was her name.
If the social mores of the time (1992) were different. And, the phenomen of a woman not using her husbands last name was considered normal then she would be known not by her first name but by her last.

What was she to do? Buck up against the right wingers and keep Rodham? That would have gone over well.

[ShortnFiery]

47. "that's how she's encouraged voters to think of her"

The American People don't want an warm engaging girl friend named "Hillary," but an intellectually superior LEADER (Senator H Clinton) running for their Presidency. :shrug:

Just as when I was a LT, I did not permit subordinates to call me by first name (albeit they are as equal as myself as human beings), because I was their Platoon Leader and could not ever fully be their buddy ... So in the same rationale HRC should accept that it's required that she distinguish herself as *OUR LEADER - Presidential.*

My GAWD. It's not formal ... as liberal as I am (and I'm ultra-pinko-liberal), not even I want "A President called Hillary." :crazy:

All bias aside, if her campaign advisers have "a brain" they will call her Senator Clinton and she will "get comfortable" with the title and the last name.

Her behavior reminds me of far too many Generals' wives who blush at being called "Ma'am" and then INSIST on being called "Betty" or whatever. IMO, it's ultra-selfish of the person who holds the position to NOT accept the title of respect before their name.

[closeupready]

50. That's a good point - like when Bush talks familiarly about Pooty-Poot or

Rummie - even as he seeks to make it seem as though he's everybody's friend because he uses terms of endearment with everybody, the fact is that not only does he retain authority but he wants even more authority over others (wiretapping without judicial oversight, military tribunals, etc.). So in a similar way, if she wants us to refer to her by her first name, fine, but that doesn't mean we have to lower our standards in terms of her proving herself.

[Captain_Nemo]

52. I agree with that. Senator Clinton is better. But, I guess since she has been so

maligned as cold and disaffected that they thought "Hillary" would be better.

All this proves is :

They wouldn't like Rodham becasue she's married
They won't like Hillary becasue it touchy feely
The ones who wouldn't like Rodham wouldn't like Senator because it would portray her as too bossy and masculine.

Damned if she does and damned is she doesn't.

[ddeclue]

58. Yeah but this isn't the military and we don't have to do that in real life.

These politicians work for us - not the other way around and if I address them by title it's not because someone made me do it.

Indeed if she insists on being Senator Clinton instead of Hillary it will serve to distance her from the voters and cost her votes. She's smart in using Hillary '08 instead of Senator Clinton 08 or H.Clinton or HRC or any of the other nonsense I've seen here.

Americans don't like titles unless they hold them and prefer to be on an informal first name basis with others. That's just the way it is.

Doug D.

[ddeclue]

56. Not true...

It is at best classist - not sexist.

Titles were traditionally reserved for nobility and the upper class has traditionally used Mr. or Mrs. while the rest of us are more informal and refer to each other as Hillary or Obama.

Doug D.

[Captain_Nemo]

60. You are right and I'm right.

Yes, titles were for nobility/slave owners. The rest were peons referred to by nicknames (remind you of someone)or first name basis.

This did happen to women pre-women's libration movement. Look at the folowing examples:
1. Women wanted to be called "Women" not ladies or girls
2. It was thought as sexist to refer a woman by a first name basis while a ma, on equal level, was referred to as Mr.

This practice went away becasue of the women's movement.

[illinoisprogressive]

34. I refer to Obama as Barack as well. but, even Hillary wants to be called Hillary

She is not promoting herself as senator or Clinton. She promotes the Hillary thing. It's what she wants.

[peacetalksforall]

36. We could do it here, but there are a couple of issues -

. When written (especially on subject lines) we don't know which Clinton is going to be written about unless there is obvious context..
. Bill Clinton calls her Hillary.
. She was Hillary for eight years, except on formal occasions when Mrs. or First Lady was used.

There seems to be a mix in the way they are all addressed:
Obama is Obama.
Richardson is Bill Richardson.
Biden is Joe Biden.
Kuchinich is Kucinich.
Edwards is Edwards and John Edwards.

At the same time we never call Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Kay. Or Mary Landrieu, Mary. We sometimees say Snowe or Dole.
When we use Hillary - it speeds things up. And, it's a very nice sound. It's a little bit of an issue of ease and quick identity. But, I side with you, Dems here, can be consistent.

[ddeclue]

59. And Dole is confusing too..which Senator do you mean? n/t

[Colobo]

38. William, Hillary has promoted herself as "Hillary"

and that's how I will call her, just as I call Obama "Obama" because he is promoting himself as that.

[Cameron27]

42. Yes she has.

I never referred to her as Hillary until someone pointed out that it was on her campaign site.:-)

[SoxFan]

43. Umm...

[Czolgosz]

44. Does that mean we have to call "Jeb" "Bush, no, the OTHER one" and we must call "Fred" and "Tommy"

"Thompson, the cradle robber who isn't running" and "Thompson, the anti-semite who's running"?

[Tellurian]

46. My prediction is this:

Whoever the repub nominee is...Ole Jeb will be picked for VP..
Poppy has a ego the size of Transylvania.

[ddeclue]

57. Let's call him John Ellis...

instead of "Jeb" he's a country clubber not the good ol' boy he pretends to be.

Doug D.

[Blue_In_AK]

49. Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary Hillary

Just because I feel like it. :evilgrin:

[ElizabethDC]

51. I think that calling her "Hillary" is fine

as is "HRC" or "Sen. Clinton." What I can't stand is "Mrs. Clinton." We don't call Edwards "Mr. Edwards," we call him "Edwards" or "Sen. Edwards." Calling her "Mrs. Clinton" is a deliberate attempt to disrespect her, IMO.

[Forkboy]

53. I'm using whatever I feel like typing for all of them.

I'm assuming DUers are smart enough to know when I use DK I'm not disrespecting Kucinich and I'm not talking about the Dead Kennedys.

I will continue to use Hillary because there's two of them.If I was trying to be disrespectful to her I have a wide vocabulary of colorful terms I could be using,although Dick Cheney is rapidly using up my reserve.

[LSK]

55. maybe you need to tell her???? because she needs to redesign her signs

http://www.hillaryclinton.com