Bush has already won and it doesn't matter who we nominate.

[genius]

If you were undecided and you turned to this site, would you vote Democrat? I'd think the Democrats were a danger to civilization.

Kerry is the front runner so instead of seeing a lot of positive postings here, he gets flamed on every conceivable non-issue. Dennis and Sharpton are adding courage and candor to the debates so there are all kinds of posts asking them to step down. I guess bringing up traditional Democratic values and standing behind us (as they have done) all the way is a bad thing and we better get rid of our courageous candidates fast. Edwards is occasionally getting flamed too for different irrelevancies. One of the worse flamers is using an Edwards graphic while posting content that appears to be oppose Edwards's positions and I can't help but wonder if that poster isn't just trying to make people dislike Edwards. If I were a Republican, I would read this site regularly to find out how to attack the Democrats.

Even a posting about an innocent intelligent African-American girl (Margie Shoedinger) who was one of Bush's victims brings anger and libelous accusations against Margie(the victim) and support for Bush. Karl Rove couldn't have done it better.

Post an anti-Bush article written by a young Democratic girl and watch the hatred for that child quickly posted on this board. After all, smart girls are worse than Bush, right? At least that's what anyone reading this board would think.

No one here is doing a lot to clean up the voting computer problem which is going to guarantee that nobody will know that the Democrats won 2004 until it is too late. That's right, we could get 99% of the vote and nobody is going to know. When the news talks about the election, they'll say Kerry or whoever lost because of Botox and America will buy it.

Maybe we should get our act together and act like Democrats and oppose Bush instead of attacking our candidates and those who are on our side.

[NNN0LHI]

1. I am undecided and I am voting for the Democratic nominee whoever it is

There goes that theory.

Don

[indigo32]

3. Yeah but you've been here a while

:)

[Blue_Roses]

49. I'm with ya on

that one. I will defend all of them at this time and support whoever the nominee is...enough of the other crap.

[voice of reason]

2. things will improve after nomination

the community will pull together once we're into the general election.

v.o.r.

[Ediacara]

4. oh good god....

[joshcryer]

5. The primaries are not over.

Therefore your whole premise is invalid and childish. Democracy isn't about 'rallying around' a candidate when that candidate isn't even chosen yet.

Sure, statistically, Kerry has it. But why let that knowledge sway your opinion on something? Can we not vote for who we want to vote for when it's our turn to vote?

[HFishbine]

6. "standing behind us (as they have done)"

If that were true, you might have a point.

[genius]

53. Dennis Kucinich has stood behind us all the way. He led the opposition to

the war and to U.S.A.-PATRIOT. He has stood up for us repeatedly. Of all the individuals in public service, he is currently the greatest national hero. He and Sharpton are bringing up the issues in the debate that need to be discussed - issues that would never be brought up without these two. We owe both of these men more than we can possibly repay.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

7. Margie Shoedinger was not a Bush victim. That was completely debunked

I hate Bush, but will not resort to the word of a completely deranged victim of mental illness for fodder against him.

Otherwise, I'd have to agree this does look more like freerepublic these days.

[Padme Amidala]

18. Isn’t this the Democratic Party? Why are we supporting Bush?

Margie Shoedinger was an African-American lady who filed a complaint against Bush. Most of our Presidential Campaigns involve, “Anyone But Bush” or “ABB.” Margie introduced a chance for everyone to beat Bush.

I know, we just want to brag about beating Bush and do NOT actually want to do it. Or maybe we just overnight turned to Bush supporters. Why else would we act this way.

[KFC]

19. She filed a ludicrous claim - Link - read it

http://www.rense.com/general32/CCCIVIL217038-1-7.pdf

Which went nowhere because it was baseless (i.e., no proof) and obviously written by an emotionally disturbed person.

Anyone can file a claim about anything.

This is a non-issue.

[Constitution]

28. This was a legitimate valid claim that would have brought Bush down.

A great many Democrats, particularly in Texas, believed in her. It's sad that rape victims are treated so badly here.

[Constitution]

29. This is beginnning to look like the most pro-Bush site on the Internet.

Did you see the question about Kerry dropping out

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Constitution]

32. How about a positive approach people.

Otherwise, this is not a great place for Democrats.

[Padraig18]

48. If we don't buy the "Move along, nothing to see" line we're FREEPERS?

If we don't by the demented allegations of a mentally-disturbed woman in Texas, we're FREEPERS? :wtf:

[genius]

52. I'm convinced. Anita Hill was a psycho. Thomas was a saint.

What was I thinking? Any woman who doesn't want to be sexually harassed or raped is conclusively unstable, mentally ill or completely psycho. Her objection is proof enough of her incompetence. How dare these awful women complain when men have their way with them. I have been corrected in my misbelief that women have the right to take charge of their own bodies.

So I don't get sued by Anita Hill, as I also know that calling someone mentally ill is "slander per se" and does not require any special damages for a judgment( complete with punitive damages}, I guess that I better say that I was being sarcastic and don't really think Anita Hill has any mental problem.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WonderGrunion]

50. How is being Anti-Kerry being Pro-Bush?

Many of us have serious concerns that Kerry is not the best candidate to represent the Democratic Party. We feel that being Anti-Kerry is being Anti-Bush as well.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

36. WTF?

Margie Shoedinger was delusional. Her story was found not to be credible. She was a victim of mental illness.

Since WHEN does one's refusal to exploit mental illness equate to being a BUSH SUPPORTER?? Since WHEN does one's refusal to make shit up equate to being a Bush supporter?? And WTF does ABB have to do with Margie Shoedinger??

We don't NEED to make things up about Bush, he's a fucking disaster. It's damned foolish to latch on to crap that has already been proven false - that just makes us look stupid and desperate.

Geeze!

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

39. *sigh*

Okay. Sue me.

[foo_bar]

43. the woman was a textbook paranoid schizophrenic

in her own words:

Plaintiff's home is under surveillance in a manner that is fully recordable in all aspects and this surveillance is able to be loaded onto an internet page within minutes; including but not limited to prison Web sites, military web sites...

if you want that in the form of a medical opinion, print out this page.

[Constitution]

27. Attacking Margie is racist, sexist and pro-Bush.

I love the way people respond to rape victims in DU. She was unstable. I guess being raped makes women unstable. Maybe some people would be happy if they repealed the 19th Amendment and raped all women daily. Margie is a shining example of a brave and smart woman who was willing to risk her life to stand up for what is right. A great many Democrats felt a great loss when she was killed and were saddened that we could not get the news media to do more to publicize her story. She was a great woman who was definitely not suicidal. She was looking forwards to the future. She was murdered and it's time we stopped honoring her murderer.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

42. No proof of any of that. It was all discredited.

You don't know me. Trust me - you can bet the mortgage that I am not pro-Bush.

And for the record, I didn't even KNOW she was Black until you brought it up. So you can quit with the race-baiting tactic with me already.

BTW, do you know my race?

If there was any truth at all to the story, Democrats would have jumped all over it. Using a mentally ill woman and exploiting her mental illness is the kind of pond scum tactic I would expect out of Republicans.

And I don't doubt she was a great woman. I'm sure she was. May God rest her soul. Now, let's allow the good woman to rest in peace.

[genius]

51. No it wasn't. If she had lived, Bush would have gone down.

One of the above posters is right. What kind of people attack a rape victim? I certainly don't want any of her attackers for my friends.

A lot of us believe Bush or Rove masterminded 9-11. But people here can't believe Bush is capable of mistreating a woman. Apparently, Bush is a perfect gentleman when it comes to treating women. He is a role model for all men, according to those who are attacking Margie. It is shockin that anyone would ever accuse him of doing anything ungentlemanly or in any way offensive to any woman on Earth, right? If we don't stand up for women like Margie, then someday, we will ask people to stand up for us and they will call us the same names we are calling Margie. And we will absolutely deserve them.

Margie's statements have NEVER been discredited in any way. A million attacks on her will not make her accusations against Bush any less true.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BigDaddyLove]

11. I once saw a post on the FreeRepublic boasting that..........

the poster was a 'regular' here (nearing the 1000 post mark), who gets his or her laughs from positioning Democrats against Greens.

You just never know who's who to anymore.

[buff2]

16. That's for sure........

Those freeper retards will do anything...the dirtier the better...then laugh about it. Damn sickos.

[LTR]

24. True, but

There's a few DU'ers over in Freeperland messing things up incognito as well.

Tit for tat.

[TennesseeWalker]

9. I think Stone Cold Steve Austin could beat Bush at this point.

Look, Bush hatred is magnified on this Board. I know that, and you guys know that. However, while most of the people don't HATE Bush, he makes them nervous.

The Kerry infidelity thing sucks, but if that's all they've got, get your inaugural ball tickets early. People just want a credible alternative to this "War President", who is stealing their retirement funds and crashing the country like a failing corporation.

People don't want Ken Lay clones running the country. Bush got a pass because of 9-11, and all Americans aren't "sheeple" like extremes on both the left and the right call them. People are afraid to say they don't like Bush in public, because of 9-11. However, I do believe they want him gone.

As for interns, sex and politics, well........as this bunch likes to say, "everything changed after 9-11."

Cheer up. :)

[aldian159]

23. Split the Texas vote, that's for sure

n/t

[Edge]

40. Anyone who's a trash-talking, beer-swilling,...

finger-gesturing, ass-kicking son of a bitch would make a kick-ass president!

Once Austin gets voted in, he'd Stunner Bush's ass outta the WH!

[enki23]

10. jesus christ. there's nothing more irritating

than someone bitching at navel-gazers about all the bitching he/she saw while navel-gazing.

[waterman]

12. I think bev might take exception to this:

"No one here is doing a lot to clean up the voting computer problem "

[indigo32]

13. interesting post

coming from you Genius. eom

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. Why is it more interesting from genius than anyone else?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mlawson]

14. bush has not won, and it is *crucial* who we nominate.

Some of our guys can beat him, but some can't. There were years, in which the nominee of the opposition party was indeed irrelevant (1956, 1964, 1972, 1984, 1996), but this is not one of those years.

[JackRiddler]

17. BBV

Good point.

Well, where are the candidates on this issue? What's Kerry doing about it?

[BeFree]

20. BBV

Our only real chance lies with the computers being programmed by Democrats, or, at the very least real patriots. If the pugs control them we will never win another election.

[Constitution]

41. The Republicans are in charge of almost all of the voting computers

There is a project in California to replace the current computers with low-cost reliable equipment with a paper trail. Hopefully counties start getting those systems.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

25. So are you having fun yet?

[LTR]

26. The best candidate to beat Bush is Bush himself

He's a flawed man running a very flawed campaign. This has not been a very good year for him so far.

He will go the way of Poppy, and make the same mistakes.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[PROGRESSIVE1]

33. The vile hate against Kerry will ensure Bushler get's

a second term.

Do DUer's really think that Kerry is worse than Bush?

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Constitution]

34. So why are attacks on Democrats and victims allowed in DU?

There are a lot of positive Internet groups for Democrats. There are the Democrats.com groups and the USDemocrat groups and the Legitgov.org groups

[Tweed]

44. With that attitude he certainly has!

[dpbrown]

45. Thank you for saying these things

To tell you (and anyone else reading these words), I still don't know the "details" about this Kerry thing, but I've already formed an opinion about it and dismissed it as irrelevant.

There are obviously people in our little "community" here who are here to a) cause division, and b) figure out how best to attack Democrats.

I think this latest attack on Kerry is going to blow over, because it IS irrelevant. It's been leaked to an online rumor-monger at a time when Bush is increasingly under attack and looking weaker and weaker.

Personally, I'd like to see Kerry ignore this, or put it right back on the Bush camp. This kind of sleaze obviously oozed from them. This is the same kind of low-down attack the Bush people put on Governor Richards, Senator McCain, and Senator Cleland.

Or, if progressives want to get right down in the mud and give it back, then give them back Bush's sleazy past with the "Blount Belles" or something else. How about Laura's manslaughter automobile case. Oh, and it seems Bush has just had to release his conviction record as part of this Air Guard thing. Plenty of fodder there.

There's always room for distinguishing one candidate from another on the basis of ideology and platform. Kucinich shines in those categories.

But I think it's a sign of the "teapot" within which this "tempest" rages that the Internet "bubble" that was supposed to propel Dean to the Presidency burst at the first opportunity - Iowa. DU is a microcosm, a small glimpse into an ethereal and (mostly) highly educated and Internet-connected club of people interested enough in politics to swarm into an online forum. As such, it suffers from at least two structural problems that are not likely to resolve themselves any time soon:

1) Zealots. Rigid, single-issue, my-way-or-the-highway disciples of this or that who are ready at the drop of a hat to rail and thrash wildly in electronic self-righteousness at anyone's daring to oppose their tiny sense of self-informed correctness, and

2) Provocateurs. The continuous back-handed complimenting done by Rush and probably others of the DU world has led directly to an influx of both the cretinously Neanderthal and the righteously rightist who both share a single desire - the derailing of discussion and democratic progress on DU.

Who's going to win?

Who knows? We've got the tools, however, to marginalize both these groups. Ignoring individuals and blocking threads will, eventually, lead to a decreased audience for troublemakers. I've found also that just "not responding" to a thread works, hopefully, to let it drift down the thread list into the obscurity it deserves.

Thanks again for adding your voice of reason to the mix.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[JPace]

46. "Bush has already won"

"Oh ye of little faith" never mind...its going
to be o.k.

The reason Democratic forums are sooo much better,
have so many more active participants, and vibrate
with energy is because it reflects the party. The
party consists of varied perspectives and ideas,
we do not goose step together as the repugs do. BUT,
and this is a big but...when we join together we are
unbeatable! Just look at the record numbers of people
participating in the Primaries.

This year we will come together as never before, but
as usual there will be much debate along the way.

[dpbrown]

47. Some people would like that "pulling together" part to be untrue

And they are acting as provocateurs to try and make sure it doesn't happen.

That's what the concern is here.

[shivaji]

54. If Bush wins, I will hit the bottle hard...but then again if Kerry wins

I will still hit the bottle to celebrate, so either way I am
screwed LOL