White House to RNC: Don't You Give Those Emails to Dems

[babylonsister]

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003033.php

White House to RNC: Don't You Give Those Emails to Dems
By Paul Kiel - April 17, 2007, 4:40 PM



The White House and Democrats in Congress are both pushing for emails kept by the Republican National Committee, and the RNC is caught in the middle.

The House Judiciary Committee, chaired by Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), wants to get its hands on those RNC-issued email accounts used by Karl Rove and other White House personnel. Congressional investigators want to know about Rove's and his deputy's involvement in the U.S. attorney firings. But the White House insists that it review the emails first, before handing anything over to Democrats. Last week, Conyers warned the RNC not to do that, saying that it would be "an unjustified delay" and "potentially... an obstruction of our investigation."

And today, in a letter to the RNC, the White House made their position clear: you have to give them to us first. There "exists a clear and indisputable Executive Branch interest" in the emails on the RNC-issued accounts, wrote Emmet Flood, Special Counsel to the President.

Conyers isn't buying it:

"The White House's position to clear all RNC emails before they can respond to our request is extreme and unnecessary. This is a clear attempt, on the Administration's part, to delay this process and keep the wheels of Justice turning slowly."

What happens next? I don't know.

[AuntPatsy]

1. Go get em Conyers....K&R

[rodeodance]

2. HA!! so the WH wants them first!! my GAWD!

[flyarm]

3. subpoena damn it!!!!!!!!!!!!!..come on Rep Conyers..use the power we gave you! eom

[rodeodance]

4. This is like handing the Evidence over to the criminals before giving to POlice!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. YES!

oh let's just erase that before we give it to Conyers.

The fact that the WH said this incriminates them!

[rodeodance]

5. RECOMMEND.

[The Magistrate]

6. They Do Not Have The Ghost Of a Leg To Stand On, Ma'am

Nothing on R.N.C. header has the least claim to regard as Executive business, and the R.N.C. has no more right to defy a Congressional subpeona than any other collection of thieves and racketeers.

[babylonsister]

11. The RNC could take their marching orders from the DOJ, who recently

defied a subpoena. Where do we go from here? If they can defy subpoenas, what's the Dems' recourse?
I'm kind of worried about this; do we now have to get court orders, and isn't that what a subpoena basically is?

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Conyers_Justice_Dept._fails_to_comply_0416.html
Conyers: Justice Dept. fails to comply with subpoena
Michael Roston
Published: Monday April 16, 2007

The Justice Department failed to comply with a subpoena issued by the House Judiciary Committee last week, RAW STORY has learned. The subpoena sought documents related to the firing of 8 US Attorneys by the Justice Department.

The Committee, which has been leading the investigation into the US Attorneys matter in the House of Representatives, noted that there was a 2 PM deadline for compliance with the subpoena for documents that either were not supplied or sent in redacted form.

Chairman John Conyers, a Michigan Democrat, warned in a statement sent to RAW STORY that there would be consequences for the Justice Department.

"We are disappointed that the Justice Department failed to produce the documents and other materials for which we issued a subpoena last week," he said. "While we understand that the Department considers this effort a priority and we plan to continue working with them, we will review all available legal options to secure compliance with the subpoena."

[The Magistrate]

23. The Things Are Not Comparable, Ma'am

The Justice Department is part of the Executive, and some Constitutional ground related to seperation of powers can be raised, though in my view it is invalid. The Republican National Committee is a private corporation, and can claim no such ground.

[babylonsister]

24. Thanks, The Magistrate. I'm just waiting for a private corp

to not respond to a subpoena; what would happen? Could officials then go in and seize what they want (providing what they want hasn't been shredded)?

[The Magistrate]

28. If They Do Not Comply, Ma'am

They would be charged with contempt of Congress, and the desired materials could be seized.

This is beginning to look like rum fun....

[babylonsister]

30. Thanks again, and goody! nt

[LiberalFighter]

41. I would like to see all involved parties to RNC jailed

Wouldn't that be fun?

[damntexdem]

31. The RNC leaders could be held in contempt of Congress.

And the AG could be impeached.

[Jackpine Radical]

60. They do, however, have friends in high places,including

the authorities charged with enforcing those Congressional subpoenas, nicht wahr?

[Vincardog]

7. Has Conyers subpoenaed the RNC for the emails directly?

[MidwestTransplant]

8. What the hell is Executive Branch Interest?

Never heard of that one.

[LiberalFighter]

13. So if I sent an email to the White House...

they would want to check my email first before allowing it to be released to the police?

[babylonsister]

25. the wh; the e-mails are communications between the RNC and the wh,

so they're claiming they get to see them before they're released.

[seemunkee]

34. But not really

If the messages are from one RNC account to another RNC account then I don't think they count as going to the WH, especially if it was done to purposely circumvent the WH rules of having to preserve communications.

[ejbr]

56. Exactly

Now the question is whether those RNC members are willing to go to jail for something that Congress will be able to seize in any event. Will dumbya pardon them? Will he not for political expedience? Now that THEIR lives may be in the hands of idiot-in-chief, are they willing to put their money where their mouths are? Doubt it! :yoiks:

Even they know that loyalty is a one way street with these bastards!

[MidwestTransplant]

36. They cant' claim Exec. Privilege so they are making shit up.

[Pacifist Patriot]

62. EBI is PC for CYA

[jmowreader]

63. You know exactly what it means

The Executive Branch has a very great interest in keeping Bush, Cheney and Rove out of prison.

We are at the point in this case where someone who works at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is going to the federal penitentiary. You and I know it, the Democrats in Congress know it, and most importantly every high-end Republican in America knows it.

The RNC can't delete any e-mails. They know it; anyone who tried it is going to prison. We talk about falling on your sword for your master, but this isn't Feudal Japan. Let's assume someone at the RNC wiped the whole gwb43.com server. He would be caught, he'd go to jail, and when he got out he couldn't even go into the Fundamentalism Industry. What a life-changing testimony that would be: "Hi, I'm John Smith. I was a Pale Guy at the Republican National Committee. One day I was directed to erase a lot of e-mails to keep President Bush out of jail. I got caught and sent up for 25 years. While in prison I found the Lord, and now I need you to give me all your money." Nope. This poor fucker would be standing on a traffic island holding a "will work for food" sign. He couldn't even get a job as a lot guy at Wal-Mart.

The White House's "executive branch interest" is in finding someone midlevel at the White House they can offer up as a human sacrifice.

[Old and In the Way]

9. The only interest here is keeping their crimes hidden.

As the Right would say, "if you have nothing to hide, why do you want to obstruct justice?"

[caligirl]

12. RNC+ Obstruction Of Justice charges = spending money for lawyers

they can't spend in the 2008 campaigns. Spend away RNC.

[rodeodance]

14. Here is the WH letter:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/Conyers-WHcounsel/

[rodeodance]

18. umm. the WH did not say privilege-----like in legal stuff.

[LiberalFighter]

15. Once the email leaves the WH system it is up for grabs

[LiberalFighter]

16. They are trying to expand beyond Executive Privilege

Besides how could there be "Executive Branch interest?" When bushwad doesn't use email.

[frylock]

17. fuck this song and dance. SIEZE THOSE GODDAMNED SERVERS NOW!!!

:mad:

[Gregorian]

59. There aren't any servers.

I guarantee they put them on a Halliburton shipment to Iraq and blew them up long ago. That would be too easy.

The only way we're going to get to the bottom of this is to eventually locate recipients of the emails, and subpoena them.

This is not going to be the slam dunk that it should be.

I hope I'm wrong.

[DearAbby]

19. a clear and indisputable Executive Branch interest

Oh I am sure...They want to eliminate all incriminating evidence...this is an admission of guilt in my book, I don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

[DURHAM D]

20. So the WH and the RNC are stalling on this...

What are the options for the House and the Senate? What is the enforcement arm of the House and Senate? Does it require help from the Justice Department? I feel like the Congress is completely impotent. They are making a lot of noise but have no real clout without help from federal law enforcement.

Justice is ignoring congress. The WH is ignoring congress. Condi (State Dept)is ignoring congress. GSA is ignoring congress. Pentagon is ignoring Dems. RNC is ignoring congress.

The crime family (WH) is being protected by the police department (Justice) - what can the Dems really do?

Frankly I believe we are in the middle of a constitutional meltdown but no one will mention it out loud. Not the media, not the WH, not the Dems. I understood the silence before April 16th because the American people would not have sent in their taxes if they had absolutely no confidence in the government. The revenue is now in - let's have the constitutional conversation.

[POAS]

21. If they give them to the WH

they are potentially in contempt of Congress and impeding a Congressional investigation.

This is somewhat like a prosecutor subpoenaing corporate records and the corporation sending them to a former executive who is the subject of the investigation. Sure the executive has a very keen interest in those records but that does not give him the right to them.

[DURHAM D]

22. So what if they are in contempt of Congress - nothing will

happen to them.

[POAS]

27. People can go to jail

for contempt of Congress.

[DURHAM D]

32. Yes - but the Justice Department has to enforce the contempt.

Do you think they will go arrest their bosses without an order from their bosses.

We are living in a lawless country but no one is talking about it. No rule of law. No good guys in charge.

[POAS]

37. That is what the Harding

administration thought in the "Teapot Dome" scandal. Congress went around a reluctant US attorney directly to the courts that upheld Congress and the Attorney General brother's arrest on contempt charges.

[DURHAM D]

38. Wouldn't that take several years?

Also, it would require a court that cooperates or should I say Judges that care about and understand the constitutional issues. No guarantee these days.

Meanwhile, all actual evidence will be destroyed under the watchful eyes of the WH and Justice Department.

[Lasher]

49. The SCOTUS issued 2 important decisions back then.

They sustainined the arrest of the attorney general's brother for contempt of Congress and upheld the contempt conviction of a witness who refused to answer questions on the grounds that the courts were already investigating Teapot Dome. As the Roberts Court's performance in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld suggests, it is not shy about standing up to the president to defend the powers of Congress.

There is another option, although I don't think it is likely to be used. If the courts refuse to act the House could have their Sargent At Arms arrest the person(s) they believe to be in contempt. They could be tried in the House and thrown into the Capitol jail. There is a precedent.

Here is an OP I put up a month ago, in which I linked to an excellent article that explored such scenarios. Said article has by now been banished to the realm of those who can afford to pay for subscriptions. Too bad, it was a very good article. :(

Edit: Hey, I found the article, woo hoo! I amaze me! :)

The month-old link in my OP led to a page where it said, "This Article is Available to Subscribers Only." But I employed my skill & animal cunning to find the article. Go here, then click on the one article that comes up.

[POAS]

50. Your correct about:

he House could have their Sargent At Arms arrest the person(s) they believe to be in contempt. They could be tried in the House and thrown into the Capitol jail. There is a precedent.

Although I think that method has not been used since the 1820's or there-abouts. It was abandoned in favor of using cooperative efforts with the courts and the executive but it was never outlawed and could be used again if needed.

[AndyA]

26. I think it would be great if Congress would get the U.S. Marshalls to go over there and

seize the damn RNC servers. Just unplug the damn things and haul them off!

The White House just wants to cherry pick what the Dems get. Can you say cover up?

[DURHAM D]

33. Alberto would have to issue the order. n/t

[KoKo]

44. DU'ers have posted that Congress can order the Marshall's to

arrest the President...for certain reasons...and one would think to impound computers might be less than arresting the President. (I don't have the links at hand...but there is constitutional language that says this can be done as part of "separation of powers.)

But, House and Senate need to collect more evidence before they get to that. :shrug:

[Eurobabe]

47. Oh I'd pay money to see that!!

[MissWaverly]

29. Lose them once & lose them twice and lose them once again

it's been a long, long time, so any incriminating e-mails will just get "lost for good", of course.

[opihimoimoi]

35. What is so DAMNING that they stonewall????What are they HIDING??

Didn't they say they gonna bring back HONOR and INTEGRITY back to the White House?

Instead...they went the opposite direction...nothing but Ineptness, Cronyism, and Arrogance....

[pnwmom]

39. I don't understand what the Repubs are pretending here.

They have their laptops and blackberries. If they want to know what emails they sent from their RNC supplied machines, can't they just check them?

[Vidar]

40. Obstruction of justice & contempt of congress. Let it finally begin.

[tomp]

42. extreme and unnecessary?

what kind of language is that for this situation? these are not official white house/executive branch e-mails. the white house has no right to them and no authority to direct the rnc to withhold them from congress. in fact, it might bwe argued it would be illegal for the rnc not to give it them to congress and therefore illegal for the white house to coerce them not to comply with congress. what is necessary is a subpoena and legal action against any who fail to comply, not "extreme and unnecessary" finger wagging. i am not yet impressed by conyers on these matters.

[notadmblnd]

43. there should be no need for the whitehouse to clear them

if they used the RNC servers for official Whitehouse business, they've broken the law, specially in regards to national security. If I were the RNC I would send both Conyers and the Whitehouse copies at the same time. Like they've told us, if you've done nothing wrong you shouldn't mind your personal business looked into.

[go west young man]

57. Exactly. They used RNC servers so there should be no way to

claim executive priveledge this time around. I think the Dems should also bring up the issue of national security in regards to the White House conducting business on an open server. The White House must really want to keep that info under wraps to be willing to defy subpeonas and break the law.

[bamacrat]

45. OH COME ON!!!!

How the hell does this keep happening and nobody does anything about it. When they are practically announcing that they are covering shit up, why does congress just sit and watch?

[lonestarnot]

46. Expedite with sanctions!

[ClassWarrior]

48. Do I see something creeping up the leg of the table??...

Hmmmmmmm???

:rofl:

NGU.

[Kablooie]

51. AH HA! HERE are the Nixon Tapes!!

The tapes are what sunk Nixon. I was wondering if there was an analog here.

If Nixon had not kept the tapes, he wouldn't have gone under.
This was where the damning evidence was.

Now we have the outside, non exclusive server being used which makes any information on it fair game.

The fact that they used the RNC server specifically to hide illegal actions makes this a wonderful find.

They'd better not let the WH take control of it. Legally they have no right to.

[MessiahRp]

52. Subpoena these and the WH is FUCKED

These emails are an open admission to every scandal of the last 6+ years and how they occurred. We're talking blueprints here.

Subpoena them and it's ENDGAME for Bush. Which is why they're fucking terrified of Dems getting a hold of these.

Rp

[HuffleClaw]

53. 'you have to give them to us first.'

pretty blatant, clearly they need to sanitize, i mean misplace or accidentally delete, the material.

[Supersedeas]

54. Danny Pretty Boy Bartlett and Fred Slow the Train Fielding want the clog the system w/Repig BS

[trogdor]

55. Say what?

If there was indeed "a clear and indisputable Executive Branch interest," then why use the RNC's email system to conduct offical government business? Isn't that AGAINST THE LAW?

ITMFA!!!!

[IWantAChange]

58. Keep putting this kind of info into the court of public opinion and

it will all take care of itself come 2008. the "National Security" and 'only Republicons can keep you safe' is a thing of the past - the curtain has been raised and the Emperor has been found to be a dolt running around in his undies.

[Rosie1223]

61. I thought the e-mails were *lost*

Now they're not???

Still can't get their stories straight.