For those on DU expressing distaste for those criticizing Bush for politicizing VT

[saracat]

I remind you of what the GOP did to the Democrats regarding Paul Wellstone's Memorial. I remind you about the nastiness of their comments when JFK Jr. died.

I believe that it has never served us well as a political party to "be above the fray". We need to call these bastards out for their behavior immediately with NO hesitation.
Bush and only Bush has politicized this tragedy , just as he did 9-11. This admin will NEVER stop politicizing national tragedies for their own benefit.

I believe we have an obligation to point out the inappropriateness and disgusting self serving that Bush co is doing.Silence in this case is read as approbation.
Thank you to all on DU who have spoken out about this travesty.

It is obscene that this man who has sanctioned mass murder should be crying crocodile tears about the deaths of innocents. It is disgusting that this war monger who has not attended a single military funeral should be depicted by the MSM as the "Chief Consoler" and being given credit for "uniting the nation".

It is time for us to take off our white gloves and "party manners". No one respects us for this gentlemanly behavior.We are viewed as "weak" for not responding.It is time for us to get down in the mud and speak out.

Bush is a monster and a hypocrite who for reasons too many to mention had no proper place at that VT Convocation. His presence was an insult to VT. the students and the mourners.His presence was an insult to this nation.

[AuntPatsy]

1. Completely agree, way too sick considering he has no problems

sending the same age group to a war he knows dam well might very well be thier last breath...definately an insult.

[SteppingRazor]

2. In (puke) defense of (retch) the president's visit...

I'd expect any president to make an appearance at a thing like this. Clinton would have done the same. So would Poppy, so would Reagan, ad infinitum.

[saracat]

4. None of the other president's were sociopaths! And none of the

others would have politicised the event! Even Poppy would have had more dignity.I am no concerned that W attended but that he is "using' it just as he "used" 9-11.

[SteppingRazor]

9. "None of the other president's were sociopaths"

Touche! :P


I have to say that I've been in a cube all day, and haven't seen any of the president's speech or what he's done at VT, so I can't comment on the politicization of the event. I'm just saying that I don't have a problem with a president doing the visit. I don't think that, by definition, it's a photo op.

[progressoid]

12. He didn't bother two years ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x677747

If he were sincere, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. But his history suggests the opposite; just blatant politics and PR.

[SteppingRazor]

13. Excellent point

:thumbsup:

[Bucky]

23. I'm feeling your pain, Razor. But how we feel doesn't matter. This is for the victims' families

If the president of the United States showing up makes the families who've endured this loss feel better, then it's more than appropriate for Bush to show up; it's mandatory. Bush doesn't do a lot of good in the world. Here's a rare case where he can. If it will help any of them get over their devastating loses, then my personal animosity toward the man has no business interfering.

[saracat]

24. What about the animosity some of the victims families might feel?

Do you seriously believe Bush could actually bring comfort to those people? Some might be too polite to say but many will probably resent his presence.

[SteppingRazor]

26. Yeah, but aren't you assuming that those families all think like you (and me, for that matter)?

Put yourself in the position of the average, barely politically literate American. You probably don't vote, and if you do, you're only aware of who's running after the primary season is over.

To most people, the fact that the president is there, whatever else he may have done, is probably appreciated.

But of course, by assuming this, I'm guilty of doing the same thing you're doing. Neither of us can know what's going on in these people's heads. All in all, though, I think Bucky's got a point.

[saracat]

29. Nope, but I assume some resent him, not necessarily "all".

Also, this is a "college " campus and a good one.Educated folks tend not to like Bush. Just saying.

[Bucky]

32. Actually Bush did much better among college graduates in the last election

College graduates tend to vote Republican.

[noiretextatique]

40. that statistic must be qualified by gender or race or region

or something.

[Bucky]

41. Level of education IS the qualification.

For all genders and for all races, getting a college education increases the likelihood of voting Republican. The old college-hippies-versus-hardhats stereotype from the Vietnam era is an enduring myth. This isn't to say some blue collar workers aren't Republican or that some college kids aren't Democratic. But across the whole population the trend lines run the other way.

[Polemicist]

43. I don't think that's exactly accurate...

While those with a high school or lower education are overwhelmingly Democratic, there is much less differentiation in party affiliation among those with some college or a college degree. The percentages of Republicans and Democrats are almost equal in that demographic. And in those with post-graduate degrees are strongly skewed Democratic.

So the more education you get, in actuality, the more likely you are be a Democrat. This information is taken from a party affiliation study by the University of California, Berkeley (SDA)and is surmised in chart form at this web address....

http://dabacon.org/pontiff/?p=539

[ProudDad]

46. Level of INCOME and belief in the myth

that they can get rich, rich, rich IS the qualification.

College graduates are just as politically ignorant as a class just more greedy...

[earth mom]

62. Bullshit. Got any stats to back that up that aren't right wing biased?

:eyes:

FYI-Most people on DU are educated-either formally or informally and that goes for the rest of the people in this country, the MAJORITY of whom are against *. People who don't give a damn about educating themselves aren't going to look further than the facade that is * & Co. or they support him purely for financial reasons and that's WHY we got into this mess in the first place-because so many people in this country don't give a damn and ARE NOT educated about politics. Instead, they get their news from the liars on teevee instead of doing the hard work; researching, reading and learning the truth for themselves.

[Pacifist Patriot]

64. I'd like to see where you got that stat if you don't mind.

I've heard the higher the education the more likely to be progressive / Democrat.

[Bucky]

31. I think we need to be realistic about how small a minority genuine "Bush haters" are

There's a difference between hating Bush and a those who just think he's a failure and a simpleton. The aura of the office reflects the country, even if the man in the office doesn't serve us well. But that alone, for most people, doesn't erase the aura. I understand that we on this board dislike him, and do so for very valid reasons. But the families at VTech need acts of civility to get them through a horrible moment. The president showing up in a time of national grief doesn't politicize the event. If he tries to use it for political leverage later, that would be politicizing it. Giving official state comfort to the fallen and their survivors is not political. Complaining that he shouldn't go because you don't like him or his policies is an attempt to politicize it.

I'm sorry if you can't see that difference. It's the price you pay for surrendering to hate.

[CJCRANE]

33. * is at about 51% STRONGLY disapprove.

That means half of Americans hate his guts.

Having said that - I thought his speech was OK in the context it was given.

[saracat]

34. Wow, oh wow! Why aren't you capable of seeing the difference

and that Bush IS already politicizing this event? My so called "hatred" is not stopping me from recognizing that Bush is "selective' in the events of "national mourning' he attends. It is already being stated by the shills on the GOP payroll that Bush has redeemed himself by this appearance. There is even a letter here on DU from a VT grad asking him NOT to go to the convocation.It is right here in the greatest threads. I am sure it was not the only request that he attend. I am sorry that you do not have sufficient experience with PR to be aware of the manipulation of public sentiment for political gain when it is obvious.Fortunately many are aware of this and are speaking out.
And BTW, I stand by my statement that educated folks tend to be liberal.Many studies have been done and point to this fact.

[Bucky]

42. Someday you'll learn the facts & I are always right while stereotypes & you are always wrong.

I don't know where your "many studies" are that show college educated people are more liberal, but here's the demogaphic table from a recent peer-reviewed survey from the Pew Research Center that shows clearly Republicanism correlates positively to level of education.

If you scan down to the education stats, my fact-loathing friend, you'll see that the more education one has, the higher the percentage of Republicans there are. Then next to that is the Democratic numbers, which trend in the opposite direction. The sample size is over 19,000 by the way. That ain't a chicken feed study. Margin of error for that size a sample is 0.7%



The findings are these: that among those with less than high school educations, 20% are Republican and 41% are Democratic. Among college grads, they two parties are about evenly split, but those are the Republicans' highest numbers and the Democrats' lowest numbers.

Note also the income trends (the richer you are the Republicanner you are) which is obviously tied to education in a pretty big way. If it helps you to understand why all the smart people aren't as Democratic as you, remember that smart people make more money, and smart is not the same as wise.

[ProudDad]

47. "smart people make more money" is bullshit!

The number one determinant of future income is the level of affluence of the family one is born into.

I've been unfortunate to know a great many corporate vice presidents and AVPs and managers during my long computer career. They are nearly uniformly incurious (like the commander in thief) and basically marginally competent as human beings. They've just learned the corporate bullshit language and know the "right people"...

The only truth is that the more money you make the more likely you'll vote repuke. The other truth is as stated above, the 'choice' of birth family is the major determinate of "success" in the bullshit capitalist economy.


On Edit: Oh, yeah! It's also a given that bush represents the epitome of the breed. He's a perfect example of corporate, college "educated" prick.

[saracat]

54. Wow again.You cite one study and it is gospel?

A little research will show the most highly educated areas of the country are blue states.Enough said.And I do realize that all "smart " people are not as Democratic as I " but whatever.As one who is employed in the PR/media field,I know public manipulation when I see it.To imply that the presence of Bush at VT today was only the performance of his duties and perhaps an expression of condolence is beyond naive.
I most certainly am appreciative of "facts" contrary to your conjecture.I simply do not agree with the results of your single study.Academia has for years been determined to be liberal in its bent which is the reason that so many conservatives have been fighting for a place in academia. But believe what you will.

[Bucky]

60. As opposed to you citing zero studies and it being gospel?

If you're actually in the PR field, then you should have access to numerous demographic studies. They'll pretty much all back up what I've said: people with more education make more money and people with more money tend to vote Republican. It sucks, but it's true. Damn facts; I hate 'em!

The one study I cited was from Pew Research (and if you're in PR you know their reputation) and was part of a large tracking study with a 0.7% margin of error. Don't confuse facts you don't like with "conjecture".

Also, don't confuse me defending facts with defending Bush. Of course he's gonna manipulate the situation for his own benefit. Name me a president who doesn't use tragedy to bump up his numbers.

[saracat]

61. Some other "Facts", for what its worth!

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=945

Liberals have the highest education level of any typology group ­ 49% are college graduates and 26% have some postgraduate education. But the Enterprisers also include a relatively high percentage of college graduates (46%), although fewer Enterprisers than Liberals have attended graduate school (14%).

[rhiannon55]

3. I agree with you 100%.

Staying silent while that fucking mass murderer pretends to give a shit feels cowardly to me. I will not be silent in the face of such monstrous hypocrisy.

[rodeodance]

5. I have felt down that Bush had to represent the US that the convocation-yet

he is still the Pres. no matter what his polls (nor if you like him or not).

[saracat]

7. But even Bush had to debate with the WH whether he should attend!

Rove undoubtedly thought it would score points.And why should he represent the US at the convocation, President or not, since he doesn't represent us at any military funerals?

[Cha]

8. It's bush's selective mourning

that is sickening.

[AlinPA]

15. I don't get it. Was he invited? If so, OK. Otherwise it is was politicking.

[saracat]

17. He "offered to attend".He doesn't wait for invitations.

[tomp]

44. not my president, not ever! only an illegitmate traitor. nt

[earth mom]

63. WTF? That dude STOLE the presidency! There is NO justification in anything he does!

:puke:

[Cha]

6. Excellent point! And, it's

incredible that anyone on DU is chastizing us for calling bush out on his disregard for our Soldiers funerals or Native American school shooting but beats it down to Virginia in record time to capitalize on this latest tragedy in America's schools!!

bush is Pox on the Planet.

[LiberalFighter]

10. The only way I see to do this is to attack any so called reporter

giving bushwad a positive spin. Call them out for not doing their job. Call them out when they are not presenting only one side of the news.

[saracat]

14. Begin with Malveaux on CNN and David Gregory of NBC

[LiberalFighter]

36. I've already sent an email to CNN expressing my displeasure with her "reporting"

[Stinky The Clown]

11. "Above the fray"

A high minded strategy for losing.

K&R

[saracat]

16. Absolutely.Been there, done that!

[caligirl]

18. voted up. Theyare what they are- repugs are political snakes call them what they are every time.

[The Count]

19. *s first statement was to defend the killers!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x675462
I see the NOLA absence was noted.
Are there really DU-ers taking this bozo seriously on ANYTHING??????

[babylonsister]

20. Hear, hear! Agree totally! nt

[Lochloosa]

21. And let me remind you....

But just when you think he can't go any lower, President Bush always finds a way to outdo himself. Today, in the wake of the incomprehensible slaughter of thirty-three students at Virginia Tech, the president sent out his spokeswoman to - first and foremost - defend the killer.

"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms," said Perino, in the first White House response, adding the utterly meaningless "but that all laws must be followed," thus nipping in the bud any crazy attempt to use this incident to have a discussion about gun rights in the United States.

Well, thank Heavens someone's looking out for the Second Amendment while everyone else is losing their heads.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x675462

[saracat]

22. Thank you.That is so true!

[Old and In the Way]

25. I wanted to watch the convocation, but I flipped the channel when

Brian Williams started telling me how compassionate and sincere Bush is and how good he is in times like this. I was disgusted.

I remember watching Bush at the WTC when they had the ceremony for the deceased after the rubble had been removed. I remember distinctly watching ABC (and Peter Jennings' commentary) focusing on Bush who had just gotten out of his limo. He seemed to be all smiles, almost jocular. Then an aide whispered something in his ear and he went into his solemn/serious mode. I'll never forget that moment.

[saracat]

27. Brian Williams is another sycophant who disgusted me today.

I also remember the rubble scene and I remember who insulted I was by Bush using the bullhorn and talking about getting "those people who "knocked the buildings down".I was reminded of kindergarten blocks and thought how petulant and juvenile Bush sounded. I was ashamed for our country that the victims had such poor oratory from an incompetent.I was amazed to hear Bush praised for that speech.

[MotorCityMan]

35. I never undestood how *'s speech after 9-11

was his supposed "finest moment". I remember seeing it and and all I could think about was that he was standing on people's remains.

[emilyg]

58. Made me barf

I remember that

[valerief]

28. He's a scourge. Nothing wrong with dumping on a scourge at every opportunity. nt

[TheFarseer]

30. How is he politicizing it?

Serious question - I haven't seen much news lately.

[saracat]

37. I think if you read down this thread you will see.

[Cha]

38. With bush you need to

ask? bush stays and reads "My Pet Goat" and stays for 30 minutes after he's told New York is being attacked with airplanes, for more photo ops.

bush would politicize a fucking coma.

[saracat]

39. And did so with Terri Schiavo!

[StrictlyRockers]

45. Totally recommended.

yeah man

[mtnsnake]

48. Wow did I ever miss a lot while I was gone today

Someone was pissed about someone criticizing Bush? Damn.

Excellent post btw. Couldn't agree more.

[badgerpup]

49. I've put my finger on what's pissing me off about this.

The tragedy was about those killed and wounded in this.
The attention should be directed to them and their families, since they are the ones who suffered, and will continue to suffer and have to deal with grief.

They did NOT need George Bush showing up wearing his "Consoler-in-Chief, uniting the nation" :puke: hat, thus diverting attention from those who merit it.

Not to mention that because of the security precautions that Bush must take everywhere he goes, I'm imagining the interference of all those SS guys, Humvees, etc is just going to needlessly complicate things.
Yeah, maybe a president is supposed to do stuff like this...but Bush's way of doing this sort of thing complicates and interferes with everything in which he gets involved.

Remember when he was making his belated "Oh yeah, I really DO care. Sorta." visits to NOLA?
Rescue efforts had to be shut down for five hours so the current occupant of the Oval Office could do his photo op. :grr:

[Norrin Radd]

50. I'm with you on this. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. There's effective amoral politics and ineffective amoral politics.

The high road has not very much to do with it.

Ragging on Bush because of this is not useful, nor uplifting, nor well-targeted nor effective.

There's plenty of other stuff for (and with) which to impeach him.

The truism is that when your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails? A corollary to that is that when your only job is to drive nails, you'll attempt to use any and every nearby object as a hammer.

Some topics make ineffective hammers.

[lpbk2713]

52. Piss on that devious lying SOB.

He gets no quarter from me.

[illinoisprogressive]

53. Why would anyone express negative for those who criticized Bush

[K8-EEE]

55. I really don't see it as "politicizing" WHEN'S THE RIGHT TIME?

I just think it's ridiculous that it's considered a POLITICAL ISSUE that people who have given off 1000 clues that they are wanabe homicidal maniacs can get these types of weapons so easily!

Why is it easier and more legal to get a semi-automatic weapon than, I dunno, marijuana? Just sayin'.....I mean that's exactly what I think whenever one of these things happens, why shouldn't I say it? It's NEVER the right time for these people to bring up that the gun regulations are INSANELY lax while other things are INSANELY draconian!

It's exactly the same as "Now we're at war, this is no time to criticize going to war!" But it was no time to criticize it BEFORE either as I recall -- and they don't WANT an "after!"

[peacetheonlyway]

57. so true...

he was asked about how the police handled the situation and Bushie's response was same, "this is not time for debate. I'm here to help them heal"

how is Bushie helping the average 186 people dying per day in Iraq?

[peacetheonlyway]

56. Evidence of Bush Politization

#1 First statement from Whitehouse Perino pointed to "The President believes people do have the right to bear arms", politicizing their pro-gun stance
#2 Bush and Brian Williams have hard time containing their laughter in a one-on-one interview. Both are seen smiling and Bush is almost about to burst out laughing, while Laura cuts off Williams with her pre-programmed story about the 'we have to show the children they are safe". jeez what fucking planet is she living on, last time I checked there were no little kids in the shooting.

#3 finally, we will see his picture on every news channel and on every webcast of the event, giving bush a poll jump that even Rove himself could not have timed any better.

NOTE: on the exact same day that Gonzalez was to face the music in a hearing in congress.

[sojourner]

59. amen n/t