Kerry should withdraw

[BeFree]

A really radical view.

It is obvious the man knows nothing about politics, or how to win an election. Hell, he's only won about 50% of the votes so far. He's a failure!

The Skeletons.
Kerry has a closet full. It's just a matter of time before all those skeletons are Drudged up and spewed across DU. It is a scandal waiting to happen! He needs to get out ahead of all of those scandals and quit while he's ahead.

IWR
He voted for it! He thought he could get away with pissing off two percent of the people who now say he's a warmonger! Yep, he's tried to explain the POLITICS behind his vote, but really, what the hell does he know about politics? He's a loser!

Tongue In Cheek, People. TIC

[dave29]

1. It's fun to laugh about matters

of life and death.

How many people have died because Bush was given permission to run around the globe and blow $hit up?

[Dookus]

the same number of people

who would've died if Kerry had voted no on the IWR.

[jayfish]

6. Elaborate? -NT-

Jay

[Dookus]

7. What's to elaborate on?

If Kerry had voted no in the IWR, nothing at all would've changed.

Hell, even if the entire congress had rejected the IWR, Bush would've gone to war anyway.

[jayfish]

10. Ok.

I thought you were going in another direction.

Jay

[JackRiddler]

41. I get it.

So why vote? Why march? Why even organize via DU?

The whole Congress could have voted against IWR...

Another 100,000,000 could have marched in the streets...

But the all-powerful Bush would have got his way.

Am I following you properly here?

"Bush was going to launch that crime no matter what, so it was politically expedient of me to support it at the time."

Hey, come to think of it, isn't this analogous to the argument of Nader voters in safe blue (or red) states?!

[formernaderite]

38. Kerry to appear on Imus in the AM....

...maybe he'll announce then.

[AP]

4. Why don't we hold Bush responsible for his own actions? Why is it...

...Democrats' fault that he invaded Iraq?

[Mairead]

21. Because the Congress fig-leafed him.

Dookus's claim that even a total repudiation wouldn't have changed anything isn't credible, I don't think. Under the Constitution, the power to go to war is vested 100% in Congress. Had they chosen to repudiate Bush's adventurism, he would never have gone forward with it--he couldn't have, without risking impeachment and conviction.

So Kerry at least should have voted a simple No.

And, presumably, we will hold Bush responsible. In November. I hope.

[Hippo_Tron]

40. Impeachment and conviction, under the GOP controlled congress?

Not possible and congressional authorization would've happened anyway. Had Bush found that there were not enough senate votes which all he needed was Zell Miller and one other dem to tie it (Lincoln Chafee voted against it), then he would've waited till after the midterms for the resolution.

[Mairead]

42. Yes, because we're talking about the case where oppo to the i&m included

the GOP. I.e., that Congress was united against the invasion and massacre. In such a case, going forward would have been flouting Congress. There's no legitimate case for impeachment when the Prez does something the Congress doesn't like but which is within the Prez's remit, but when the Prez is, as it were, a stand-in for Congress, he'd better do what Congress wants.

Or at least that's my interpretation, fwiw.

[HazMat]

9. How many more people have died

because people like your guy stood with the Republicans and supported Gulf War I ? Remember the highway of death? We wouldn't even be in Iraq if it was up to real Democrats like Kerry who voted against the Gulf War.

[polpilot]

16. Now we have a pro-war demo nominee to run against a pro-war repub

with $100 million. I can hear Rove belly laughing on the floor of the oval office.

Dean '04...The Anti-Establishment, Anti-Iraqi War, Anti-DLC candidate.

[BeFree]

19. He's not really pro-war Demo unless you are a 2%er

But don't tell Rove that.

Let's let Rove try and tell America that Kerry wanted Saddam to remain.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

28. Bush would have gone to war anyway.

None of the Dems who voted on the IWR would have taken us to war. Bush did it, not the Dems. Time to start placing the responsibility where it belongs and stop letting Bush off the hook.

[Carolina]

34. yeah, but

the go-along-to-get-along Dems made it easier for Bush. A united Democratic opposition, hell any opposition, could have forced the media to examine the situation rather than cheerlead.

This lifelong, yellow-dog Dem does blame Bush but the Dems who voted for IWR are complicit. And complicity in a crime makes you equally
GUILTY.

[stepnw1f]

2. whatever - vote for your candidate. Mine is Kucinich.

Stop trashing candidates people. It really doesn't help.

[HFishbine]

3. Kerry has done quite well

at explaining the politics behind his IWR vote. We understand perfectly.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chocolateeater]

12. Why would he attack Dean-Witter?

Nobody from that firm or family is running for President.

[stickdog]

17. Plus, they are one of Kerry's biggest contributors! (nt)

[oasis]

8. His Lurchlike looks are a chick magnet which spells nothing but trouble.

:evilgrin:

[KC21304]

11. I know it is attracting this chick. LOL

Trying to find out when Clark is going to endorse him in Madison tomorrow. Can't miss the chance to see the Dem ticket.

[Jacobin]

13. Gee, only two percent think IWR was an idiotic stupid

callous, lamebrained, calculated political misstep that cost thousands of innocent lives?

Count me confused.

[BeFree]

18. Quote: 2 percent call him a "warmonger"

Was IWR all those things, and more? It was only supported by close to 80% of America.

But, yes. IWR was wrong. I can see, however, how a skilled politician could try to take the lemons he was offered and attempt to make some lemonade from those lemons. That's politics is played. Not a sport for wimps, eh?

[Jacobin]

22. Hitler was supported by a huge majority of Germans, too

that didn't make it right.

And yes, one who advocates invasion of a country that has not attacked our country in order to make Israel feel more comfortable and to steal their natural resources IS a warmonger.

Warmonger.

Warmonger.

[DrFunkenstein]

23. Hitler - Last Refuge Of The Far Left

When in doubt, you can always count on the far Left to compare someone they oppose to Hitler. Usually after unsuccessful comparison to Bush.

PS - I hope you're not a Dean supporter, because have I got some wild Israel stories for you!

[anti-NAFTA]

26. What Israel stories?

I'm curious. All the candidates have the same position on Israel as far as I know, except maybe Kucinich.

[diamondsoul]

33. HEY! I am far Left...

And I never use a Hitler comparison in a debate!

Sorry, just had to set the record straight there.:evilgrin:

Oh, and you should just remind them of the golden debate rule- The first one to compare the opponent to Hitler loses by default.

[BeFree]

24. Warmonger

What Kerry's IWR vote was about, was disarming Iraq and taking the power away from Saddam Hussien. When November comes around, the pugs won't be able to say Kerry was for leaving Saddam in place. * lost on that political gambit.

Of course, what * did with the IWR was obscene. Kerry pretty much said so. We all agree that what * has done is obscene, right? Now most of the public is seeing it that way too.

* is a warmonger. Kerry was hoping his vote would lead to a peaceful disarming, thru the UN, of Iraq. Not quite warmongering.

[anti-NAFTA]

27. It was politically expedient but IMMORAL!

And he knew damn well what Bush was up to. I did.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

31. No, I think he means the 2% using the IWR as a "one issue" litmus test

for their votes in the GE.

[Carolina]

36. me too, two

:eyes:

[Old and In the Way]

14. If Kerry had intoduced the resolution, I'd hold him accountable.

But it was Bush. He elected to use it as a mandate to make war based on lies. He didn't let the inspectors do their job, because there'd be no grounds to invade. He invaded because he knew there were no WMD. He thumbed his nose at Congress, the UN, the American people, and the entire world. He invaded for his selfish political/economic reasons. He ought to be tried and impeached.

[Skip Intro]

15. I might could accept his IWR vote then, if he'd say invading was wrong NOW

He still supports invading Iraq.

Doesn't he?

[Crachet2004]

20. Keep Kerry!!!!!!!

Anyone we nominate will be subject to the same kinds of assaults. The Republican smear machine will invent something if nothing exists! Even if there is some truth to what Drudge is reporting-and there may not be-maybe some kind billionaire will buy the bimbo off and send her to Hungary for a couple of years! Wait to see whats up for real before dumping our best hope for beating the Bushwhacker.

Stay strong!!!!!!!

[anti-NAFTA]

25. Politics vs. Principles

I won't have blood on my hands. I won't contribute a vote to someone who's voted for free trade and for the filthy war.

No one's accusing Kerry of not knowing about politics. He is the prototypical guy who says the right things to the right people with nothing to back it up. "Benedict Arnold" yourself, Kerry. I don't think I have to pull up his voting record on trade again.

[BeFree]

29. Free trade is a good idea gone bad

Voting for free trade is not such a terrible thing. It is the way free trade has been instituted. Kerry, having not been able to do much as a senator to control how free trade has been administered, is not to blame.

I would like to read some about what Kerry plans to do on free trade if he is prez. If anyone has some facts... let 'em rip.

BTW... my vote in the primary will go to Kucinich. Ain't gonna do a lot of good, but that's that.

[DU GrovelBot]

30. ## Support Democratic Underground! ##

RUN C:\GROVELBOT.EXE
 
This week is our first quarter 2004 fund drive.
Please take a moment to donate to DU. Thank you
for your support.
 
- An automated message from the DU GrovelBot

Click here to donate.

[quaker bill]

32. I agree he has explained the POLITICS behind his IWR vote.

That is precisely my problem with it.

[Carolina]

37. mine too

explain, explain, explain, spin, spin, spin, justify, justify, justify. It still defies/ed basic common sense to support Bush on anything since well before October 2002, he had already demonstrated his duplicitous ways and zealotry, and his cabal was filled with many of the same players in Iran-Contra and BCCI about whom Kerry was all to familiar.

[Edge]

35. He needs to go because he voted for the Patriot Act...

the very act that's taking away our freedoms. Do we need a President who'll do that?

I'm sticking by the candidate who DIDN'T vote for it.

[ecstatic]

39. I'm not sure if I can handle 4 years of intern-sex scandals

drowning out real news.

[Freddie Stubbs]

43. He currnetly has 56% of delegates that are committed so far

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/scorecard/index.html