162, 507 (and counting) united to Stop Hillary Clinton

[obamian]

I just came across this Facebook group: Stop Hillary Clinton: (One Million Strong AGAINST Hillary)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2243510858

This group illustrates the hate that is out there for Hillary.

[Old and In the Way]

1. Yes, I'm sure there are 162,507 Republican knuckle draggers that hate Hillary.

So what?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

2. There is a similar group against Obama: it has only 768 members

To recap:

Number of people in the anti-HRC group: 162,507
Number of people in the anti-Obama group: 768
Net difference: 161, 739 more people joined an anti-HRC group

[aquart]

3. Wow. Arithmetic.

If it ain't a vote at the polls, it ain't nuttin'.

[Up2Late]

4. They might get more support if you didn't have to be a member of Facebook just to view the page!

At least with MySpace you can view the page without having to log in, that was the first (and probably the last) time I'll go to Facebook.

[Apollo11]

5. I want right-wing rednecks to hate our candidate

If we put up a candidate that nobody hates, then we picked the wrong candidate.

Even if 40% of the voters actively dislike our candidate - I don't care.

But if it starts getting closer to 50% then it starts to become a real problem ...

Unfortunately a LOT of folks out there have a negative perception of Hillary.

According to a national poll for CNN, 44% of voters have a unfavorable opinion of Hillary Clinton.
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/03/14/rel4e.pdf

According to a national poll for TIME magazine, 51% of voters say they would not support Hillary for President.
http://www.srbi.com/TimePoll4096-Final%20Report-2007-03-27--10.30am.pdf

So the Facebook group is only the tip of a very large iceberg ...

[Dr Fate]

12. So who "hates" McCain or Rudy as much as folks on both sides dislike Hill?

Maybe a tiny portion of super-informed types who no longer buy the "Maverick" & "hero" lines? It's tiny, whatever it is.

I disagree with your statement- I'm like Dean- I want those dudes with the Rebel Flags on their trucks to start liking DEMS- maybe-just maybe- we can get them to take the damn things off.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

15. "51% of voters say they would not support Hillary for President."

We'll win by HRC magically sweeping 100% of the remaining 49%! Oh wait...you need a majority to win, usually...

[wyldwolf]

6. my sister-in-law is a republican and she is on this list

[DFW]

7. Seems like a lot of energy wasted

What's with all this Democratic energy being spent so early on "I hate Hillary" propaganda?
OK, so she's not my first choice, either. So what? Methinks the haters doth protest too much.

If it's from the radical right or National Hate Radio, I can understand that she scares the
living expletive deleted out of them. But from us? We really have nothing better to spend
our energy on? How about campaigning positively for whatever candidate you DO support instead
of posting which Democrat you hate? If you hate a Democrat, go paste it on the Republican
Underground (if there is such a thing)or Freepland, or whatever.

Tearing Democrats down is the specialty of Karl Rove and Frank Luntz. I'm sure they'd be thrilled
to have Democrats help them accomplish their goals, but I really don't think we should.

[AtomicKitten]

23. nail on head

She doesn't need to be your first, second, or even third choice to understand that she is one of our potential nominees and tearing her apart is tantamount to shooting oneself in the foot if by chance she gets the nomination. And watch the nastiness spread to the other candidates like a scorching case of Chlamydia.

Unfortunately some quasi-Democrats have a long and distinguished history of doing just that, every election, like clockwork. Witnessing their lame, puffed-up, allegedly ideologically pure arguments is like watching a combination geek sideshow/train wreck in slow motion, every election, like clockwork.

Pull up a chair, kids. It's gonna be the same old shit, different election.

[Connie_Corleone]

8. Why post that crap here?

The Republicans do enough to tear down our candidates. Why should fellow Democrats do the same?

[flpoljunkie]

9. Indeed! It is surely crap!

[obamian]

10. There is currently a Democratic Primary going on

I'm not a member of this group, nor do ever intend to become a member of this group. If Hillary wins the nomination, then I will do whatever I can to help her win. But until then, there should be a fair discussion about which candidate is best fit for the job. I don't want to smear Democrats, but I will make valid criticisms of Democrats. If you find valid evidence against Obama, I encourage you to post it. Looking back at the above post, I didn't really explain my reasoning for posting this, so I apologize for that.

One of the reasons I support Obama is that I think he can appeal to Republican voters better than the other candidates. 4/10 Republicans voted for him in Illinois, he has been praised by Republican colleagues and writers, and I've heard many Republicans say they're going to vote for Obama. If you search Facebook, you will even find a several Republicans for Obama groups (though no big groups yet). And there is http://www.republicansforobama.org

I have also heard both Democrats and Republicans say that they hate Hillary Clinton. There have been polls that have confirmed this. A Facebook group of 162, 507 voters who have decided not to vote for Clinton is important information to consider when deciding which candidate to support. I don't have the statistics of who is in the group, but I'd expect the majority of people in the group are Republicans, though there are probably some Democrats. Nevertheless, the point is: this group demonstrates Hillary Clinton's ability to motivate Republicans to join together.

We need the greater majority of this country supporting Democrats. 51% isn't enough to spur the crucial change we need in this country. I think Obama is a better salesman of the Democratic Philosophy than any of the other candidates .

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

14. Okay.

I don't want to smear Democrats, but I will make valid criticisms of Democrats..

How is posting this helpful? How is this valid? So a bunch of posters over at face off have decided that they won't vote for Sen. Clinton. Fine. What do we know about them? Repubs? Kids? Jerk offs? What can you say about them? And how is it relevant? Don't you think that there would be the same number for Bill Clinton? How about if we start one for rudy dudy or "I've lost my mind mccain? What possible meaning would it have?

If you don't want to smear Dems instead of posting this then why don't you post something positive about a candidate you do support. There is one, isn't there?

[obamian]

22. What it means

So a bunch of posters over at face off have decided that they won't vote for Sen. Clinton. Fine. What do we know about them? Repubs? Kids? Jerk offs? What can you say about them?

1) Based on the Facebook Demographics, the vast majority of the group are Americans somewhere in the 16-30 age range. Kids younger than that aren't as likely to be interested in politics and aren't as likely to be on Facebook. And Hillary and Facebook aren't as popular overseas. So I think it's fairly safe to assume that these people are potential voters.

Edit: I just looked at a random sampling of the members of the group and there are plenty of high school kids. I'm not sure how representative the sample I took was of total population of students, but I would be fairly confident in saying that about half the members of the group will eligible to vote in 2008 election. Which is still a lot.

And how is it relevant?

2) There is a Democratic Primary going on. It's evidence that there are a lot of potential general election voters that
a) Dislike Hillary enough to join a Facebook group
b) Are willing to invite all of their friends to a group against Hillary. (This group couldn't have gotten this big if not for b)

I don't think this Facebook group alone is a strong argument not to vote for Hillary. When you consider it along side all of the rest of information about Hillary, this Facebook group bolsters the argument that she can rally the right more than any other candidate. I just came across this Facebook group and was surprised by it's size, and I thought other people might find it relevant to how they choose (or argue for) a presidential candidate.

Don't you think that there would be the same number for Bill Clinton? How about if we start one for rudy dudy or "I've lost my mind mccain?

3) There may be. I haven't seen a group nearly this big against any of those candidates, which is why points a) and b) are such big deals. Tons of people are willing to join and promote a group against Hillary, while as far as I know, they haven't joined and promoted a group against other candidates.

If you don't want to smear Dems instead of posting this then why don't you post something positive about a candidate you do support. There is one, isn't there?

4) Half of my last post was positive Obama stuff. My username is Obamian. And I've written most of the content for http://www.obamapedia.org Nevertheless, in the context of election campaign, what individual candidates do only matters when considering what the other candidates are doing. I didn't mention any other candidates and didn't properly justify my posting in the first post, again, I'm sorry for that.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

16. Good post

It is sad that some are seeking to stifle dissent because they view this as some sort of coronation, not a democratic process which will culminate in primaries next year.

It isn't just her ability to motivate Republicans. She is disliked by many independents and even some Democrats. We need to win the independent vote solidly (Kerry won it by a few points but it was not enough) and need strong Democratic turnout. Look at what happened the last time Democratic turnout was depressed in 1994 in the aftermath of the bungling of health care...

[rinsd]

19. Oh look now its Hillary's Heath Care proposal's fault for the Dem loss in 94

"It isn't just her ability to motivate Republicans."

They certainly seem motivated

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

20. The target keeps moving.

Very popular at times.

I'm still waiting for the OP to post something positive about his/her candidate, not just crap about Sen. Clinton

[rinsd]

21. Would be happy to see anything positive about any Democrat

That isn't also used to bash another Democrat.

[obamian]

24. I agree that bashing is bad, but I think comparing is good.

Candidates should be compared to their opponents.

For instance, the FNC debate.

It's hard to determine what: "Edwards pulled out of the FNC debate" means alone. It matters what the other candidates did. It is important to consider that he pulled out first and that Obama and Clinton also pulled out, when judging his actions.

[Connie_Corleone]

25. Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm an Obama supporter.

No one is stifling dissent. It's one thing to criticize. It's another to form a campaign to stop Hillary Clinton. That's what the primaries are for. Let the voters decide.

Point out what you don't like about her policies, what she's saying on the issues, but there's no need to build some group to stop her. Register people to vote, get the message out about the candidate you support.

If you spend too much time trying to "stop" Clinton, you might end up getting her as the nominee because you didn't promote your own candidate enough.

[AuntPatsy]

11. I agree seen far too much of this on du today.

[ElizabethDC]

13. There are 752,775 members in the "When I was your age, Pluto was a planet" group

Facebook is just silliness like that. And I'll bet you anything that a good chunk of the members of the anti-Hillary group (like with any group on facebook) are high school students (and younger) who won't even be able to vote in '08.

[Forkboy]

17. Pluto got shafted.

:(

[ElizabethDC]

18. Pluto *did* get shafted.

I'm very upset about it. Clearly, so are a lot of facebook members.

[DFW]

26. One detail worthy of correction:

I know nothing about Face Book, but then, I'm over 30.

But as for Hillary not being known overseas--that's about
as true as WMD or safe strolls through a Baghdad market.

I am stationed overseas most of the time, and speak 9
languages, so I speak to more than just diplomats, bankers
and hotel concierges. They ALL know Hillary overseas, and
none of the people I speak to, from stodgy Swiss bankers to
the chocolate store saleswoman in Brussels, have any problem
with her whatsoever. This also extends to French people who
can't stand their own woman candidate for president, Ségolène
Royal, so it's not a gender thing.

If you like Obama, fine. I've met him and talked with him, I
like him, too. I haven't yet decided who will get my vote in
the primaries, but if Obama wins the nomination, he'll get
my total support, as would Hillary if she's the nominee.

At some point, when I feel "convinced," I will decide to give
my lonely primary vote in my State (Texas, in case there is
someone out there who doesn't know where DFW airport is) to
one of the Democratic candidates.

But I won't be tearing down ANY Democratic candidate unless
Fred Thompson or Ralph Nader suddenly decide to seek the
Democratic Party nomination (gotta draw the line somewhere).