Anyone just hear Hilary Rosen on MSNBC tell Tucker the swift attack was fair

[blm]

and that Kerry needs to drop his objection to Fox?

And THIS is a Dem spokesperson?

Who the Fock does Rosen support?

[babylonsister]

1. Yes, she basically said the Dems are making mountains out of molehills

in paying so much attention to these (3) recess appointments. With reps like this...

[blm]

The people who have been chosen by the corpmedia to speak for the Dem party

have been part of the problem for FAR TOO LONG.

The Carvilles, Begalas, Rosens, McAuliffes, LannyDavises of this party have hurt the Democratic message for a decade now in their fervor to protect and strengthen the influence of the corporatist wing of the Democratic party.

[Cha]

51. And the corporatemediawhores

give these rwingers all the time they need to brainwash the viewers.

I'm hoping Americans are wising up to the mediawhores who are propping the chimp up and are selling out their country for the sake of a buck.

[Supersedeas]

61. the shills are absolutely sickening.

[The Backlash Cometh]

58. She sounds like a mole, or maybe a schmole.

Schmole: Cross between a mole, a shill and a schmuck.

[brentspeak]

2. Who's Hilary Rosen?

A "Hilary Rosen" under Google search turned up a former head of the RIAA.

[arcos]

5. Yes...

She's former head of the RIAA, a Democratic lobbyist and the 46th most influential gay person in America according to Out Magazine.

[Mend]

59. Is Sam Fox gay? eom

[blm]

6. She's been acting as a Dem spokesperson since 2003, as I recall.

.

[hatrack]

45. "Acting As" would seem to be the key phrase here, wouldn't it?

:eyes:

[AX10]

7. That's her!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_Rosen

On November 30, 2004, Rosen became the interim director for the Human Rights Campaign, a leading GLBT lobbyist organization, following the ouster of Cheryl Jacques. Hilary's partner, Elizabeth, was the executive director of HRC for eight years prior to Jacques' assumption of the post. Since May 2005 she's been a contributing blogger at The Huffington Post and a consultant to companies in the media industry such as XM Radio, Viacom and Snocap.

Rosen recently founded a consulting firm specializing in digital media and the entertainment industry with Jason Berman, former Chairman of the International Recording Industry Association (IFPI) called Berman Rosen Global Strategies.

Rosen is a television commentator on politics on MSNBC and a contributor to MSNBC.com.

How the HELL was she ever allowed to chair HRC? :wtf:

[jonnyblitz]

11. Her long time partner Elizabeth Birch used to run Human Rights

Campaign , the DLC of gay groups, in the 90's.

[orleans]

100. i'll tell you who she is by asking: hey rosen! what's in your cd wallet???

"Q: What's in your CD wallet?

"A: The new Janet Jackson record, Bruce Springsteen, Shawn Colvin, old standbys like Prince, Stevie Wonder, Parliament.
snip

"Hilary Rosen, 42, calls herself just a "nice Jewish girl from New Jersey," but the CEO of the Recording Industry Association of America acknowledges she's a "lightning rod" for controversy. Rosen is the most visible spokesperson for the $15 billion music industry at a time when a transition to digital puts it at a major crossroads. USA TODAY's Jefferson Graham met with Rosen at the Four Seasons Hotel in Beverly Hills Monday for an interview that ranged from Napster to the RIAA's recent skirmish with the Federal Trade Commission and Congress over marketing of inappropriate music to youngsters, and from the future of digital music to Rosen herself.


http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/2001-05-02-hilary-rosen.htm

[AX10]

3. It was the grass/netroots that won us last fall's election.

Howard Dean's organization and the net is what won us the election, not the Washington beltway Dems. The beltway Democrats are the only kind that are allowed on TV. You know, the kind that roll over and play dead for the GOP/punditry.

If beltway morAns such as Ms. Rosen, were incharge of our campaign efforts last fall, we would have LOST seats inspite of the GOP/Bush's horrid approval ratings.

[arcos]

4. Rosen is a fully owned corporate whore... nt

[Pirate Smile]

8. Hillary Rosen supports Hillary Clinton.

She has been introduced that way on Hardball.

[blm]

10. No wonder the Dem spokespeople never handled the swifts well on these shows

back then.

Lucky for the Clintons in 92 that some Democrats defended Bill when he was attacked as a draftdodger - and the senator leading that defense of Bill Clinton was John Kerry.

[karynnj]

30. What is pathetic about that comment is that it is wrong on 2 accounts

1) Kerry did not lead the fight or lobby anyone to reject him. Kerry has said in several interviews that all he wanted was the guy to take responsibility for doing wrong. (He said the SBVT were wrong - but doesn't connect that giving them money to do it is wrong.)

2) Kerry has lived a life that he deserves to be very proud of - he is a very very decent person who has lived up to his values.

Obviously Hillary Rosen's values are more flexible than I can accept. This reminds me why in 2004 and 2000 I was so happy to vote for people I could say were good people - a part of me wishes I did not vote in 1996 -

[IndianaGreen]

107. Oh the irony!

Kerry leaped to Bill Clinton's defense, and Hillary couldn't wait to stick a dagger in Kerry when he was attacked for his botched joke.

[enough already]

76. That explains just about everything

Another attack on Dems by our presumptive nominee and/or her spokes-assholes.

[ProSense]

9. Hilary

is another misguided Democrat who doesn't understand that lying should never be condoned and cowardly liars should never be rewarded.

She and her ilk always advocate looking the other way, nothing matters, don't make waves. F*** you Hilary.

Here is her bio.

[blm]

12. Why on earth would someone like this think SMEARING and LYING is fair?

.

[zulchzulu]

13. I mean really, the Repigs only lied about Kerry's military service..like whatever..

Kerry should just get over it...I mean...since Fox wouldn't do anything nasty to Rosen's preferred candidate...yunno...

:sarcasm:

[blm]

14. Not only that, but Fox proved to be fully INCOMPETENT for the job during the hearings.

.

[karynnj]

33. well, after all he doesn't walk with a limp

Kerry has repeatedly spoken eloquently and from the heart about the sacrifices that people who go to war make. He still has srapnell in his leg and suffered nightmares for years. His record - his he had on his website - was absolutely spotless. Nixon was disappointed when he heard that - but Nixon - the evil Nixon, the President I never thought could be beaten in evilness - did not lower himself to lie about Kerry's record.

This woman needs to be OUT as a Democratic spokesperson.

[windy252]

15. It's things like this

that make me glad I usually only watch Olbermann.

[karynnj]

34. speaking of whom,

can we email this for worst person of the day?

[beachmom]

16. Despicable!! When the transcript comes up, somebody post it.

This woman needs to apologize for enabling the Swifties. I hope her opinions aren't shared by the junior senator from New York who she supports.

[sampsonblk]

17. That's the moderate position

Only us left wing wackos are actually fighting this fight. The only thing we have in our favor is that we happen to be right.

[ProSense]

20. That's nonsense! Only wingnuts and idiots hold this position. Congress

should move to cancel this illegal recess appointment.

[blm]

22. I don't see it as liberal v moderate issue - it's a decency and honesty issue.

And an issue of why would a Dem spokesperson even UTTER the words this person did to validate what the swifts did?

[flpoljunkie]

18. Surprise! Hilary Rosen has written on Huffington Post that is supporting Hillary Clinton.

[blm]

19. Was she thinking of Hillary2008 when she was supposed to be defending Dem nominee on TV in 2004?

How did she end up a Dem party spokesman in 2003? Did Terry McAuliffe tap her?

[flpoljunkie]

21. Have no clue, but she's writing this on HuffPo: Obama is no Threat to Hillary

"Obama flirting with running..." Bet she's like to take that one back, and the comment that follows it below in bold print (mine).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hilary-rosen/obama-is-no-threat-to-hil_b_32299.html

Hilary Rosen

10.23.2006
Obama is No Threat to Hillary (95 comments )

Barack Obama is the real deal. I've loved reading about him and watching him in interviews over the past weeks. He is refreshing, lofty and connected to our struggle to demonstrate the better selves in all of us.

I like the way he talks about teaching children purpose. And I like the way he emphasizes empathy as the quality most missing in public discourse.

Of course I wouldn't vote for him to be President. Not yet anyway. Call me old fashioned but I think the pressure of the job requires at least some experience. And he just isn't there. And it is very hard to envision him catching up in the next two years.

Obama flirting with running is the best thing that could happen to Hillary Clinton. Speculate away my punditcrat colleagues about how Hillary's Democratic primary support would drain away to Obama and surge him forward. I see it differently. While Senator Clinton doesn't need a comparison chart to prove her bonafide readiness for the presidency, in this case it will be a gift of a chart.

Senator Clinton is practiced in world affairs, knowledgable about military conflict, she has lived through the pressure of national political campaigns, she recovers with grace from attempts to drag her through scandal and she has the experience that we want in the Oval Office. (I have said many times, Al Gore and Hillary Clinton are the only Democrats who walk into that office, in my view, understanding how to do the job well).

Yet Hillary's detractors see her as too liberal, too fresh, too ambitious --- too unelectable. Next to Obama you can't help but think she looks a downright conventional choice.

[Sparkly]

23. Oh please tell me you heard that wrong...!!! nt

[blm]

25. Wish I could - I even left out the fact that she was laughing along with Tucker.

.

[Sparkly]

26. Laughing?!? LAUGHING?!?!?

About the Swift Liars?!?? :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Arugula Latte]

24. Here is her contact information, which doesn't include an e-mail address

This is from the Berman Rosen Global Strategies web site at bermanrosen.com:

HILARY B. ROSEN

607 14th Street NW
Suite 500
Washington, DC 20005
office 202.354.8210
fax [phone]

[Blue_In_AK]

27. Rosen supports Hillary Clinton.

Can you judge a candidate by his or her supporters? Some of Sen. Clinton's supporters really bother me.

[MonkeyFunk]

36. No, not really

there are idiot fans of all candidates.

Hilary Rosen is useless as a Dem spokesperson. She also said today that Pelosi's trip to Syria was "not her finest moment".

[blm]

44. Are you kidding? I didn't hear the slap at Pelosi. This is NOT good for the Dem party, at ALL -

And that is probably why the corporate media has tapped her as a Dem voice.

[beachmom]

28. I saw the re-broadcast. She said Democrats were "silly" for

being mad about this, and said Clinton did recess appointments, too (still don't know if he did that after WITHDRAWING a nominee). She DID say the charges by the SBVT were ridiculous, but then when Tucker said the crime was "hurting John Kerry's feelings", she laughed and said John Kerry should stick to the "folklore" that he was attacked unfairly and "stop whining" about it.

Gee with friends like her ....

[blm]

29. Unfortunately, she's a Dem SPOKESPERSON and was acting as one during 2004, too.

And people wonder why Kerry could never get media traction any time he countered the swifts.

How did our Dem spokespeople do with the FACTS they were given, Hilary?

[brentspeak]

41. I can't seem to locate information on Rosen being a Democratic spokesperson

Do you have a link to that?

[blm]

42. She was often on the cable shows as the representative Dem voice.

Who tapped her for that position? That I have no idea. I only knew of her when I worked in the music business in LA. When she started popping up on cable shows as a Dem spokesperson it was around 2003 iirc, and I never really understood why she was there, as she was never a great defender of Democrats or their key issues.

[cadmium]

47. She is just the kind of FOOL that

the TV has been trotting out to represent Democrats for the past 10 years. She will probably say "Iraq - Get over it", "NSA spying - get over it" etc. She catches attention onf this thread because of the Fox issue but that is just emblematic of what we have been accepting from these hacks. We shouldn't take it when they launch attacks against Howard Dean, Pelosi, Kerry or anyone else from the democratic wing of the Democratic party.

Boy that Dean quote rings true now.

[brentspeak]

49. What the DNC should do is issue a statement saying that she has no official connection to the Dems

[cadmium]

50. She just made an enemy out of me. I always refer to

Ann Coulter as "Republican pundit Ann Coulter" I never say just Ann Coulter by name alone. I need a short phrase to precede her name like insider hack Hilary Rosen--something more catchy. Whenever refering to DINO's in a post we can use Hilary Rosen by name as an example.

[brentspeak]

38. self/del

sorry, responded to wrong message

[madfloridian]

31. Can you say Napster? From Salon....

http://archive.salon.com/tech/view/2000/05/01/rosen/index.html

[blm]

37. 2003 and 2004, 5, and 6 are becoming even clearer, eh mf?

.

[blm]

52. Try this little gem, mf. Check out the DATE.

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

[madfloridian]

53. That was interesting indeed to have been from spring 2004.

I was stunned by some of the statements. Yes, it has gone on a long time, before we had a clue.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

90. It's unpopular to add 2+2+2+2+2 and come to the conclusion that the answer is 10.

It makes you a 'conspiracy theorist' to those set against the anti-corruption, open government wing of the Democratic party.

A noted HISTORIAN like Doug Brinkley can point out that there was a fight for control within the party in 2003 and 2004, but if we repeat his points and talk about who was doing the REAL fighting and undermining of the candidates and nominee, we are vilified.

[flpoljunkie]

32. This segment appears to be coming up again on the east coast, after the commercial break.

[flpoljunkie]

35. Sorry. Different pundits--John Harwood and Susan Page.

Suan Page said Bush would pay for it in the Senate when he needed something done, and it was not a smart move for Bush.

Harwood made light of Obama not having any big bucks contributors like Fox to appoint as ambassadors with his $100 contributors. Just weird!

[blm]

40. Geez - we can get media shills to see this appointment in our favor and our own Dem SPOKESPERSON

spins it against Kerry and the Dems opposing Fox?

How weird can it get? And if Rosen is saying this, you can be sure it's because this is the way Clinton camp sees it. If they didn't, she would be more supportive of the Dem side on this.

[flpoljunkie]

57. Different pundits, different show. This was Tweety discussing Bush's recess appt. of Fox.

[Auntie Bush]

39. She supports Hillary! I was taken back by some of her comments too.

[BeyondGeography]

43. Disgraceful...it's natural to have rivalries within the party

but we should at least be able to unite against slander from the other side in presidential campaigns.

[beachmom]

46. Let's contrast Hilary Rosen with the DNC:

DNC Statement:

On the same day the Democratic National Committee issued a report chronicling the Bush Administration's consistent pattern of putting partisanship ahead of good government, President Bush did it again. Today, the president put his political party ahead of the American people by using a recess appointment to install Republican political contributor Sam Fox as Ambassador to Belgium.

Fox contributed $50,000 to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which was responsible for notoriously brutal and utterly false attack ads smearing Senator John Kerry and his Vietnam crewmates during the 2004 election. In response to Fox's nomination, 11 of Kerry's crewmates sent the Senate Foreign Relations Committee a letter saying that "those who finance smears and lies of combat veterans don't deserve to represent America on the world stage." President Bush withdrew Fox's nomination last week when it became clear he would not survive a vote in the
Committee.

"Faced with serious and principled objections over a nominee who funded some of the ugliest attack ads in a generation, President Bush had a choice between honoring the veterans who have served this country by distancing himself from these despicable ads and rewarding the donors who served his political goals," said Democratic National Committee Press Secretary Stacie Paxton. "Sadly, President Bush once again put the interests of his Party ahead of the American people by circumventing the Senate in a clear abuse of his power."




Key phrase: "ugliest attack ads in a generation"

Why couldn't Hilary Rosen have uttered a phrase like that, and understood how such despicable behavior does NOT get rewarded with acquiescence.

[blm]

48. Deserves its own thread. Should we appeal to Dean/DNC to get approval on Dem

spokespeople who show up and dump on our side and our issues? Seems he could establish a team of spokespeople that the party wants tapped to support the PARTY and that individual candidate spokespeople be LABELED as such and not allowed to rep the party on overall issues.

[cadmium]

56. I agree. There are some good ones out there.

Chris Schector is pretty good at beating back attacks and going on the offensive. I'd like to see some folks form People For the American Way

I dont have more names of the top of my head. NOBODY could challenge Gary Hart on policy issues.

[wisteria]

54. Tucker found a repub disguised as a Dem.

No honest Dem would say the things she did, she would be equal to a traitor.

[DeepModem Mom]

55. Yes, I heard it. K&R

[wyldwolf]

62. ! ! ! ! ! ! W A R N I N G: This Thread Contains Factually Inaccurate Information ! ! ! ! ! !

! ! ! ! ! ! W A R N I N G: This Thread Contains Factually Inaccurate Information ! ! ! ! ! !

Anyone just hear Hilary Rosen on MSNBC tell Tucker the swift attack was fair and that Kerry needs to drop his objection to Fox?

Did not happen. Rosen said it was a disingious for Democrats to object to appointments when congress is out of session because Democrats have done it, too, but she did not say Kerry should drop his objection to Fox.

Although she did say John Kerry should guit whining about the swift boat attacks now, she did not say the swift boat attack was fair, she said they were untrue, and that John Kerry and his colleagues on the committee are perfectly entitled to vote against Fox.

From the Transcript of Last Night's show:

CARLSON: Let‘s get back to the core of this. And that debate will continue, there‘s no doubt, Hillary. But it turns out, I guess, and this is the part of the constitution that I‘m not that familiar with, but it‘s unconstitutional to appoint someone ambassador to Belgium if he‘s hurt John Kerry‘s feelings. That is the single criterion here, have you hurt John Kerry‘s feelings.

ROSEN: This is sort of a silly fight for Democrats. You know, Bill Clinton made several recess appointments for people that the Senate wouldn‘t approve for these kinds of important posts. My friend, Jim Hormel, was recess appointed as ambassador to Luxembourg. It‘s a prerogative of the presidency to do these thing things for people. I think it‘s a little disingenuous for them to object.

CARLSON: But can you just say, I don‘t like how you voted in the last campaign? I don‘t like who you supported, and that‘s you‘re not fit because you were my enemy in the last campaign to represent our nation in the all important nation state of Belgium?

ROSEN: Well, I think John Kerry and his colleagues on the committee are perfectly entitled to vote against this guy.

CARLSON: Of course they are. But they usually dress it up. They‘re like, you know, he‘s just unfit. Now they are just like, you know what, he contributed to ads that made us mad.

ROSEN: Well, they didn‘t say that‘s the reason. They said they thought that Belgium was potentially a hot bed of some future—

CARLSON: Belgium deserves better.

AKERS: But they didn‘t hide the fact that they were upset about his role.

AKERS: The bigger issue is 527 groups, in general, 527 groups, such as Swift Boat Veterans, that don‘t have to disclose their donors, their funding, anything, and that became the big debate in the Foreign Relations Committee. You know, look, you were part of something that was destructive government and politics. Sam Fox said he thought 527s were destructive.

CARLSON: Destructive? It‘s destructive to air your political views on television? It‘s destructive to have political views that the majority doesn‘t agree with. I mean, what the hell does that mean? The Swift Boats were a bunch of Vietnam veterans who had a view about John Kerry that was totally legitimate, and some how it‘s destructive. I know that‘s not your argument. That‘s theirs.

ROSEN: Regardless of—we don‘t have to redebate—

(CROSS TALK)

ROSEN: But they are just ridiculously untrue. But John Kerry would be wise to stick with the folklore that the Swift Votes was an unfair attack on him, and the more he brings up this issue this week, the more people are going to say, you know what guys, stop wining.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17982233/

-----------------------

So fault Rosen for truthfully stating that Dems make appointments when Congress is at recess. Fault her for saying Kerry is "whining" about the swift boat attacks now. But don't claim she said the attacks were fair and that Kerry should drop his abjection to FOX.

That isn't what was said.

[blm]

63. She said Kerry should stick with the FOLKLORE that attacks were unfair - folklore means MYTH

Or do you have a different definition of folklore.

And Rosen did say it was a silly fight for Dems. Clinton never made an appointment that was WITHDRAWN because it couldn't pass. And he never appointed someone who demonstrably LIED UNDER OATH during their confirmation hearings to EARN the rejection of the senate committee, as Fox did.

[wyldwolf]

66. Several points. The first is obvious. She DID NOT say what your OP said she did

...and she DID say the the swiftboat charges "are just ridiculously untrue."

The dictionary's first definition of Folklore is "The traditional beliefs, myths, tales, and practices of a people, transmitted orally." It dsoes not mean myth

1846, coined by antiquarian William J. Thoms (1803-85) as an Anglo-Saxonism (replacing popular antiquaries) and first published in the "Athenaeum" of Aug. 22, 1846, from folk + lore. This word revived folk in a modern sense of "of the common people, whose culture is handed down orally."

Why would she first say the swiftboat charges "are just ridiculously untrue" and then call them "folklore" if she thought it was a myth?

So, again, your OP is fundamentally inaccurate.

Clinton never made an appointment that was WITHDRAWN because it couldn't pass. And he never appointed someone who demonstrably LIED UNDER OATH during their confirmation hearings to EARN the rejection of the senate committee, as Fox did.

This is a NEW argument from you not related to your OP. It is a silly one, anyway.

Recess appoitments are made because Presidents know they won't pass in Congress. Whether or not the appointment is witdrawn is immatrerial to the discussion

[blm]

67. On first hearing it came off exactly as a slam - and others here heard it, too.

And folklore does mean MYTH and that is how she used it.

And the point was that she used Clinton's appointments to make it seem like Bush did nothing wrong here, but there was a BIG difference - when a nomination is withdrawn it is supposed to be WITHDRAWN from consideration.

Clinton never withdrew the nomination to avoid a vote and then appoint that person in a recess.

So, there is no similar ground in the way Rosen states.

She took a shot at Kerry, at Dem senators against Fox, and Pelosi.

And did it all as a Dem spokesperson, when the DNC statements were supportive of those Dems on those issues.

So - she doesn't speak for many of us.

[wyldwolf]

68. Upon reading the transcript, you should admit you heard it wrong

And folklore does mean MYTH and that is how she used it.

Dictionaries do not give that definition as their first or second entry. It is obvious she didn't mean it as "myth" because she also stated the swiftboat charges were not true.

It really doesn't matter about the recess appointments. Clinton made them when it was obvious they would not be approved. Bush withdrew this one because he would not be approved -then appointed him in the recess. Same thing, really.

Regardless of whether you believe she took a shot at Kerry, she DID NOT say what your OP states she did. Your OP is, therefore, wrong.

Further, at NO TIME was did she refer to herself as a "Democratic spokesman" nor was she introduced as such. So YOUR OP IS WRONG on yet another point.

Let's review:

Rosen DID NOT tell Tucker the swift attack was fair.
Rosen DID NOT say Kerry needs to drop his objection to Fox.
Rosen WAS NOT introduced as a Democratic spokesperson nor did she refer to herself as such.

[blm]

71. She said BOTH - and as a spokesperson she should be more coherent.

And it was more than just me who picked up on it as mockery WHEN IT WAS BEING SAID, and that is not something you read in the transcript.

Rosen ended up making contradictory statements about the swifts in that segment but there was no mistaking HOW she said it.

[wyldwolf]

72. By her statement the swiftboat smears were untrue, she would not believe them myths

And, again, she never called herself, or was referred to as, a spokesperson.

You've been called on another in a long series of factually inaccuracies. Just admit you misheard and your OP is wrong.

[beachmom]

102. The thrust of her post stands

Hilary Rosen did NOT defend Democrats, and should get the hell off TV. She said of Nancy Pelosi "This was not her finest moment". Are you going to defend that, too?

[wyldwolf]

110. no it doesn't

Hilary Rosen did NOT defend Democrats

Yes she did.

and should get the hell off TV.

That isn't for you to decide.

She said of Nancy Pelosi "This was not her finest moment". Are you going to defend that, too?

No, but that isn't what the OP was about. :)

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flpoljunkie]

70. Transcript of "folklore" comment. Hilary Rosen both defends and smears John Kerry.

CARLSON: Destructive? It‘s destructive to air your political views on television? It‘s destructive to have political views that the majority doesn‘t agree with. I mean, what the hell does that mean? The Swift Boats were a bunch of Vietnam veterans who had a view about John Kerry that was totally legitimate, and some how it‘s destructive. I know that‘s not your argument. That‘s theirs.

ROSEN: Regardless of—we don‘t have to redebate—

(CROSS TALK)

ROSEN: But they are just ridiculously untrue. But John Kerry would be wise to stick with the folklore that the Swift Votes was an unfair attack on him, and the more he brings up this issue this week, the more people are going to say, you know what guys, stop wining.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17982233/

Perhaps Hilary is hoping to be invited back to Tucker's show, and with these kind of snarky comments, she will be.

[wyldwolf]

73. the transcript was already covered here.

There was no smear. She said the swiftboat's words were "ridiculously untrue" so why would she, in the same sentense, refer to them as anything other than the dictionary definition of "folklore" which is NOT a myth.

[flpoljunkie]

79. Rosen, avowed Hillary support, dismissive of John Kerry standing up against man who funded Swifties

I posted this section of the transcript so others could read it and see how Hilary Rosen is giving with one hand and taking way with the other.

What was John Kerry to do when Fox came before the committee? Act like nothing had happened, and that Fox had not contributed $50,000 to fund the vile Swifties smear ads against him? Imagine what people would have said if he had remained silent.

And then for Hilary Rosen to call this wining, erases all objectivity she may claim as a representative of the Democratic party.

As for why, perhaps she wanted to be a return guest on Tucker's show. It wouldn't be the first time a Democratic dissed his/her own party to score points with a right wing talking head.

[wyldwolf]

81. accept she wasn't dismissive, and the points in the OP were clearly wrong

I posted this section of the transcript so others could read it

It had already been posted in this thread.

[flpoljunkie]

82. You need to reread it and perhaps then you will see that she is plainly dismissive not only of

Kerry, but of any Dems who would support him.

And don't miss how she started on Kerry...

ROSEN: This is sort of a silly fight for Democrats. You know, Bill Clinton made several recess appointments for people that the Senate wouldn‘t approve for these kinds of important posts. My friend, Jim Hormel, was recess appointed as ambassador to Luxembourg. It‘s a prerogative of the presidency to do these thing things for people. I think it‘s a little disingenuous for them to object.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17982233

[wyldwolf]

83. I have, over and over. I guess I'm not as sensitive as you

[flpoljunkie]

84. Now that is silly.

[wyldwolf]

85. no. I don't think so.

[flpoljunkie]

86. "Kerry would be wise to stick with the folklore that the Swift Votes was an unfair attack on him..."

ROSEN: But they are just ridiculously untrue. But John Kerry would be wise to stick with the folklore that the Swift Votes was an unfair attack on him, and the more he brings up this issue this week, the more people are going to say, you know what guys, stop wining.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17982233

The use of the word "folklore" conjures up folk tales--things that may be thought to be true within the common wisdom, but may not actually be true. You have to wonder why she used the word "folklore" instead of the "fact" that the Swift Vote ads were an unfair attack on John Kerry.

So snarky and low of Hilary to go after John Kerry like this. I hope she has thought better of what she said since her appearance on Tucker's show.

[wyldwolf]

87. "The use of the word "folklore" conjures up folk tales" - I've already covered this in this thread

The fact of the matter is, blm was absolutely incorrect in her characterization of Rosen. Now all of you are trying to squeeze juice from a turnip to salvage something from blm's original screed.

[flpoljunkie]

89. blm was correct in her characterization of Rosen--who while pleasing Tucker, did no favor to

Kerry, Pelosi, or, consequently, the Democratic party. Again, I hope Hilary Rosen has since thought better of what she said on Tucker's show.

I have nothing further to add to this discussion.

[wyldwolf]

91. show me one point in the OP that was correct

[Zhade]

94. Are you really this obtuse?

Rosen was clearly referring to the idea that the attacks were unfair as the folklore, not the content of the attacks themselves (which, as you say, she called untrue).

Again: "folklore" referred to "the attacks were unfair", NOT the attacks themselves.

[wyldwolf]

96. I believe that would be you, Zhade

[Zhade]

115. Interesting that I can address your past questions, but you have to revert to insults.

Glad to know I properly called you on your confusion.

[wyldwolf]

116. that is absolutely hysterical. You insult me, I insult back, and you whine about insults

Here is a hint: I will not re-argue every point I've made in this thread to every new poster in it.

[beachmom]

103. Do we have a Spin Doctor in the house? I was screaming at the TV.

"It was ridiculous and untrue but Kerry should stick to the folklore ... and stop whining about it."


That's called equivocating -- it creates DOUBT and furthers the smear. How can you NOT get that? Why are you defending Hilary Rosen? She's not running for president.

[karynnj]

105. Not to mention another point

I have watched hours and hours of Senator Kerry - I have never heard him whine. NEVER.

[wyldwolf]

111. yes, we do. Starting with the OP

[karynnj]

74. Ok let's test whether it's ok by taking John Kerry out of it

You can use any concept of what folklore means. I agree that she does say right before that that they were completely untrue. Her next sentence is a disaster because the word folklore allows that it is possibly NOT true that Kerry was attacked unfairly. (I actually took a class in folklore in college - I know the defintion and even "common belief" does NOT mean it is true. )

Let's translate it to her issue, and assume a Democratic spokesman said:

"It is totally untrue that gays can't do work as well straights. But (the name of a gay organization) should stop whining about people who say that and accept the folklore that gays are great workers."

Note: I know I would be here posting that this is appalling.

or (as she's a Clinton supporter) here's one that may be a better match.

It is true that the Clintons were not guilty of anything in Whitewater. But Bill and Hillary should stop whining and accept the folklore that they did nothing wrong here.

Note: I would object to that statement beacuse an intensive investigation showed they did nothing wrong.

With Kerry's Vietnam service, it went beyond not having done wrong - he is a war hero, who saved lives! That is NOT questionable it was fact 35 years ago and fact now. The other point is that Kerry absolutely did NOT bring this up other than in the hearings. He did not send out emails for people to protest it. He did not lobby anyone to vote against him.

[wyldwolf]

75. the only thing you can say is she was sloppy in her choice of words. BUT...

...the OP's contention is STILL false.

Despite what BLM said in the OP, and despite what the others who piled on here said:

Rosen DID NOT tell Tucker the swift attack was fair.
Rosen DID NOT say Kerry needs to drop his objection to Fox.
Rosen WAS NOT introduced as a Democratic spokesperson nor did she refer to herself as such.

[karynnj]

77. I agree 100% that she was sloppy with her choice of words

I I am not BLM, though I do often agree with her. I went totally from the transcript, which I agree was less bad than initially reported - BUT even with your definition - folklore opens the door to implying that the situation is not factually described.

1) I said that she said the SBVT were liars - and I included the comparable piece in each example.

2) She did say that Kerry should let the SBVT thing alone - which is very kind of her - it's not her reputation and I assume she was OK with Clinton's raging, finger in the face rant when he was angry because Wallace asked about the irresponsible dishonest movie that (if believed) hurt Clinton's reputation. (Kerry only had millions of dollars of smears - far beyond one movie)

3) There was a Republican and Rosen - she was the Democrat as far as anyone watching said.

You didn't take my test though. Are you ok with the gay or the Clinton example?

[Zhade]

95. "Rosen DID NOT tell Tucker the swift attack was fair."

In those words? No.

In the context of "it's folklore that the attacks were unfair", which gives the distinct impression to anyone who can comprehend the words that she dismisses the idea that the attacks were unfair? Yes.

This isn't rocket surgery.

[wyldwolf]

97. Not at all. And you're right, this isn't "rocket surgery."

It is more of the manufactured outrage the left is becoming known for. "Let's scan the TV dial and internet and find something to get mad at."

[beachmom]

104. She has been called a "Hillary supporter" in the past.

I've watched the show before. She's a Hillary supporter, and a "Democrat", and should be taken off TV, because she is hurting our cause.

[flpoljunkie]

80. Great post, karynnj!

[Zhade]

92. Your post contains its own inaccuracies...

"Why would she first say the swiftboat charges "are just ridiculously untrue" and then call them "folklore" if she thought it was a myth?"

That's not what Rosen said. Per your own transcript, her use of "folklore" refers to "the Swift Votes...{being}...an unfair attack on him".

In other words, "the traditional belief" that the attacks were unfair. Which, as I'm sure you agree, attacks based on utter lies tend to be.

(And incidentally, next time you try to refute the idea of "folklore" meaning "myth", you probably shouldn't use a definition that includes the term myth in the definition itself.)

[wyldwolf]

98. Actually, you're trying to rewrite what was said and transcribed

[beachmom]

101. Gee that's funny -- "folklore" was the word KO used to refer to the

talking point that 9/11 and Saddam Hussein were linked -- the one Dick Cheney can't let go of. You're trying to defend the indefensible. Give it up. This is about Hilary Rosen, not Hillary Clinton.

[wyldwolf]

112. Sorry, I don' base my vocabulary - or actual definitions - on KO.

[beachmom]

99. So you're going to defend Rosen?

She did an AWFUL job and called Democrats "silly" for fighting this. I would think the proper comment from a Hillary supporter would be that she can't control what her supporters say, and that you AGREE with the Democrats fighting the Fox recess appointment. I believe upthread I corrected BLM on a few fine points. The main point -- that Rosen mocked Kerry and Dems fighting this -- stands.

[wyldwolf]

109. I'll defend what she said against what blm says she said.

[WCGreen]

64. Perhaps we should all inform MSNBC that she doesn't speak

for us....

[blm]

65. I think we should ask Dean to insist networks ID Dem speakers CORRECTLY.

Rosen's remarks against Pelosi's trip were in direct opposition of DNC's letter of support for Pelosi's trip.

[wyldwolf]

69. She WAS ID'd correctly

[flpoljunkie]

88. Let's see. MSNBC political analysts for Hillary-Hilary Rosen, Bill Press. CNN-Carville, Begala.

Why are they not all properly identified as being political analysts who also are supporting Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination?

I sense a hiring pattern here.

[mloutre]

106. New campaign slogan: "Herself in '08 -- Because She's Already Bought and Paid For"

[cascagraphic]

78. I think I'm gonna throw up

[AtomicKitten]

108. and here Rosen stuck up for Kerry

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37009-2004Oct15.html

:shrug:

She's a commentator. I don't get the monitoring here at DU of the tee-vee pundits. It seems there is an unrealistic expectation that Democratic commentators should follow a regimented script. It just isn't possible to agree with anything anyone says 100% of the time.

[wyldwolf]

113. "...an unrealistic expectation that Democratic commentators should follow a regimented script"

Part of the new "progressive" order.

[flpoljunkie]

114. Rosen does defend and then takes it away with her other snide comments, i.e., the "wining" comment,

and the completely strange and unhelpful use of the word "folklore--" when the word ought to have been the "fact" that the Swifties lied about John Kerry's war record.