I think Hillary could down in history as one of the best US presidents ever

[mtnsnake]

Definitely Top 10, maybe top 6 or better.

Obama is still my number one favorite and I think Kucinich best represents Democrats ideals, but even I have to admit that this lady has "winner", "unbeatable", and "future great world leader" written all over her. Not only does she have the kind of experience, determination, and grit that it takes to kick Giuliani's sorry ass and return this country back into greatness, but she has that extra intangible quality that only a woman can provide...an empowering feminine touch, which is just the medicine a country like ours could use right now. Hey, when you mix power and fortitude with compassion, that's one hell of a winning formula for a future world leader to have.

When the history books get written in the year 2020, I think Hillary will get compared to the likes of FDR and Truman. I've also come to the conclusion that after the dust settles, she'll be rubbing elbows in the Womens Hall of Fame with such renowned female greats as Golda Meir, Evita, and Tina Turner, only Hillary's much prettier of course than Golda. Damn, Hillary has nice eyes, although I wish she'd stop with this new wide-eyed look she's starting to do all the time, you know, kind of like what the runaway bride does, only Hillary doesn't make her eyes bulge nearly as much as the runaway bride did last year. If she stops doing that (I think she got new contacts) and stops clapping so much when she's up there on stage, I think she'll probably have the election all wrapped up because she's got all her other mannerisms down pat. I might send an email to her headquarters to give her some advice about the eyes thing and the clapping. Anyway, in the event that Barack finds a way to stop her, or in the remote instance that Edwards comes from behind to get it, it's a win-win-win situation for us Democrats, although destiny is pretty much pegging Hillary as the first female President of the USA.

[yourout]

1. Man this is getting old.

[liberal renegade]

83. better get use to it...

[lvx35]

2. "And I was thinking to myself, it could be heaven or it could be hell..."

I basically agree, when I cut through the dust and actually look at what our candidates are saying I think they are all extremely good. I'm not sure who I will back yet though.

edit: oh, I forget the hell part.

Some part of me has gotten very paranoid though, and the similarities Hillary has to Bush 2 in that she is also a "sequel" freaks me out some still.

[babylonsister]

3. You forgot your popcorn. nt

[sam sarrha]

4. that is because if she was elected all the Freekn Fascist rat bastards heads would explode and we

would be rid of their maniacal Meglamainal shrill whining and backstabbing, disinformation, spinning lying, interfering and dismantling of the constitution.. we would for the first time have a Fox free environment.. and could get on with the business of running our country for the benefit of the people instead of building Fascist's utopias on the backs of the poor they create.

[mtnsnake]

19. Right on dude!

There's a reason they hate her. She knows how to kick Republican fascist ass :toast:

[Tellurian]

5. Did you say something about a brochure in your OP..

I thought I saw something... then couldn't find it.

But I agree with you, Hillary will be the best, if they give her the chance to prove it.
I know you are a Bama fan, but lets be honest, he's not ready to take on the RWMF's when they start their hate machine.

[mtnsnake]

22. No, the only thing I edited from the post was Thatcher

Bumped her for Evita.

I know you are a Bama fan, but lets be honest, he's not ready to take on the RWMF's when they start their hate machine.

I agree that's a huge questionmark, although so far he's handled himself brilliantly when attacked.

[Colobo]

6. I think Obama could go down in history as one of the best US presidents ever

[Tellurian]

11. I doubt he'd survive the general..

he doesn't have a strong enough or experienced enough organization behind him to ensure he'll reach the steps of the White House. It will be John Kerry-Al Gore all over again. See, thats my major concern with Obama..

[Colobo]

15. Both Hillary and Obama would experience the hate from the right

and, based on how things are developing, Obama is showing us that he and his team (including his supporters) are tough as nails.

Hillary is a great candidate, but Obama is showing to be much stronger than what probably most people believed.

[Tellurian]

The fund raising is a positive function..

when you start cutting Republicans off at the knees, it starts to get messy. I like Obama, I just don't think he's ready. The VP slot may be another story, but to fight these SOBs fresh off a short stint on the Senate floor..He needs an army of loyalists behind him. That is where he is seriously lacking.

[Colobo]

33. Let's see, Tell

I just know one thing: This race is extremely interesting and positive for us Dems.

[Tellurian]

63. yes, indeed Katz,

and thanks for the civil discourse.

[salin]

85. as WILL any democratic candidate.

"electability" based on the level of rw hate really ought to be dropped from our conversations except in how the candidate and their team responds - because whoever gets the nod will be relentlessly targetted. It is how the GOP has run campaigns since at least 1988.

[zulchzulu]

99. Oooh yeah. It's a good thing the Right has nuttin' on Senator Clinton

:sarcasm:

[mtnsnake]

28. Without a doubt. He's got rugged competition though.

Obama would be a healer of a divided nation if he could just get in, but I think Hillary is going to end up being the one to send Giuliani packing.

[Tellurian]

64. It's never easy wresting power from the Republics..

Because once you have it, then you still have a fight on your hands to hang onto it.

[mod mom]

96. Agree, however...

I have to admit I would like to see him president in 8 years after serving the next 8 as VP under Al Gore. If he is the nominee, I will work hard for him. I wouldn't lift a finger for Hillary.

peace.

[Prophet 451]

7. You're kidding, right?

Hillary might well be a decent president but I really doubt she would get anywhere near FDR or Truman (nor did Bill for that matter). Of the three front-runners (Gore, Obama and Hillary), Hillary is probably the weakest of them (I don't see Edwards as a serious contender and while I love Kucinich to bits, he'll never win the primary). Hillary's good, they're better and she's too much of a DLC ("make teh Democratic party competative by moving them to the right") candidate for me.

Incidently, as a Brit who lived through Thatcher's reign, she was a monster, not someone to compare generally admirable politicians to.

[BeyondGeography]

8. "There is no such thing as society."

A monster indeed.

[Tellurian]

9. We've never had a female president before...

and being a Brit, neither have you.

[Colobo]

18. Well, they had Marge...

I don't know how close that is to a female president, though...

[Tellurian]

20. And so they have..

Not anything near a US President...especially, George.

You might be thinking of QE1st..

[Prophet 451]

23. Closer to a dictator

Thatcher ran roughshod over normal principles of British politics like Cabinet collegiality, party consensus and so on. She pushed through several laws by sheer force of personality and personal dictat, notably the Poll Tax (which caused widespread rioting). She apparently saw nothing wrong with 7% unemployment (and probably higher if her admin hadn't continually redefined the criteria to keep numbers down) and under her, Britain's manufacturing base died on it's ass.

Imagine Dick Cheney in drag, remove the compassion and you have Thatcher.

[Prophet 451]

26. We don't want one either

We prefer the limited powers of a Prime Minister (although Thatcher and Blair have both attempted to expand those powers massively).

[mtnsnake]

12. Thanks Prophet, I just bounced Thatcher from my post

[sce56]

10. I'm sick of dynasties running on their names Bush, Clinton, Bush God Forbid Clinton!

Sick of them lets draft a Gore - Edwards ticket! After all Gore did win in 2000!

[Tellurian]

16. Dynasty doesn't apply to the Clintons and that oft repeated meme is a misnomer du jour..

[sce56]

39. I don't care give us a real choice not the same old crap! Draft Gore 2008!

[lutefisk]

24. "Banana Republic" characteristic #7: A spouse or offspring of ...

a former leader of a country taking leadership (presidency) of same country at later date.

[Tellurian]

31. well if we're splitting hairs here..

This definition dispels the notion of a "dynasty"-

"A family or group that maintains power for several generations."

The Bushs would easily qualify even out of sequence.

[lutefisk]

78. No, dynasty isn't really accurate- we need a better term.....n/t

[bling bling]

13. She'd be a hardworking, thoughtful, and respectable President.

I would be thrilled if she won the election. I know that Hillary Clinton would make her decisions based on careful review of the information and advice from the experts around her as well as what the people want, as opposed to making decisions based on what would make her buddies $$$. She's been in public service and politics a long time. She's not a good-old boy like Bush, despite the fact that many people think she's his female counterpart. She's a brilliant, self-motivated and hard working person who's risen to the top because she's the cream of the crop. Truly. It's a shame people see the worst in her. But it's a pity for them. Anyone who chooses to see Hillary in an unbiased way should clearly be able to see all the excellent qualities she has.

[Prophet 451]

32. I'm sure

The question isn't (or shouldn't be) whether she'd be a decent, hard-working president. The question is whether she'd be better than, say, Obama. The Democratic field is spoilt for choice this time around because virtually all the candidates would make decent presidents. The trick is picking which one would be best at it. Personally, Hillary would be my fourth choice (after Kucinich, Gore and Obama, in that order).

Any of the D candidates could make at least a C grade presidency (in comparison to Bush's I or F, depending on how you class it), the question is which of them could go further.

[bling bling]

44. That's a good question.

At this time, I'm rooting for Obama. He's the guy I've been waiting for, for a long time. I think he could potentially be the best, and possibly ONLY, person to heal this country and get us united again. To me, that is a priority because it's going to take all of us to get through some of the challenges we'll be faced with over the next few decades.

My fear with Hillary is that no matter what she does 50% of this country will roll their eyes and resist as much as possible simply because it's HER that's doing it. If she says we need to protect the environment, the fundies will do everything they can to undermine her every effort.

But, I also have faith in Hillary to work the system and get things done despite the roadblocks. So even though Obama is my first choice, Hillary is a close second.

And I'm not opposed to changing my mind. I'm not a groupie or a loyalist, I'm simply for the person who will be the best leader for the country. Right now that looks like Obama to me but time will tell.

[Prophet 451]

70. My other concerns with Hillary...

...both stem from how much the right loathes her. Granted, they wouldn't like any candidate with "D" after their name but after sixteen years (assuming Bush finishes his term) of Rush, Coulter, O'Lielly, etc ranting, raving and lying about "Billary", their feelings toward her especially are closer to murderous, fanatical contempt than anything logical.

So my twin worries are that she would motive Repug's who might otherwise stay home to go out and vote in an "anyone but her" effort and secondly, such is the hatred of her, that I'd honestly worry about her safety if she ran or was elected.

[bling bling]

81. Fanatical contempt is the perfect description.

And it's fearsome, indeed, when you consider the mentality of the people who walk in lockstep. These dorks followed orders and demanded (via a mass-freakfest phone campaign) that Slimfast fire Whoopie Goldberg simply because on her own time she said some harmless joke about her "bush" being smarter than Bush.

The right wing has a stronghold on some of the genuinely dumbest yet fiercely loyal suckers you could ever hope to have on your side. Well, frankly, I don't want my side to be filled with unquestioning dittoheads but I digress.

The point is I read their right-wing rags and they all sound like a bunch of angry seething irrational fanatics when they talk about the Clintons. They are so brainwashed it's ridiculous and pathetic.

Having said all of that, I still think it's possible we can get Hillary elected if she wins the Primary. But I cannot in all honestly say that I feel very confident about it.

[mtnsnake]

77. I can't help but root for Obama

He had me from the instant I heard his keynote convention speech. It was like, hey, this guy is a dream contender, a person who can heal this divided country as well as anyone if only given the chance.

[bling bling]

79. "If only given the chance...."

Totally agree. And that chance depends on the Dems. I believe he'll win the General if he makes it there. It's the primary I'm concerned about, ironically.

[mtnsnake]

34. Damn right bling bling

You nailed it as usual.

It's a shame people see the worst in her. But it's a pity for them. Anyone who chooses to see Hillary in an unbiased way should clearly be able to see all the excellent qualities she has.

Amen. Hey, don't put any stock into the hordes of people who stetch the truth about her here. They won't affect her outcome in the least. In the end, the truth always rises to the top.

[IndianaGreen]

14. Putting the horse before the cart, aren't you? "Inevitability fever" perhaps?

I hope Hillary is not measuring the curtains in the White House before a single vote is cast in the primaries.

[Tellurian]

21. Believe in projection much..

[mtnsnake]

25. I think we should have a pool to see who can guess who her WH chef will be

I think she already bought the new blue curtains.

[Tellurian]

36. I nominate Chef Ramsey..from Hell's Kitchen..

Bill would be a regular visitor in Gordon's kitchen.

[AnOhioan]

17. Well, there is opinion, and then there is outright wishful thinking.

[mtnsnake]

29. Opinion it is...

but when's the last time I've ever been wrong? :evilgrin:

[IndyOp]

27. D-e-m-o-c-r-a-c-y *not* D-y-n-a-s-t-y. 1980 to 2016 with 2 families? NO! (n/t)

[bling bling]

46. Are you sure your dates are right?

Where does Reagan fit into this?

[mtnsnake]

50. LOL

Hey, at least she's optimistic. She's got Hillary already pegged for being re-elected in 2012.

[bling bling]

53. HA!

I noticed and was amused by that too. How funny. Great minds think alike.

[Alexander]

80. Reagan was a puppet

Just like Bush, he wasn't running the show. Falling asleep at Cabinet meetings and so on. Bush might as well have been president for 12 years.

[IndyOp]

90. It is my opinion that G.H.W. Bush ran the Presidency throughout Reagan's

term (1980-1988). Thom Hartmann - Air America Radio - has said that Reagan's Alzheimer's began interfering with his ability to perform within the first year of his Presidency. That gives G.H.W. Bush 12 years; Bill Clinton 8 years; G.W. Bush 8 years; and then I am extrapolating 8 years for Hillary Clinton out to 2016. Too long. Much, much too long a period to have 2 families in the White House.

[mtnsnake]

92. I've gotta give you full marks

for coming through with a very crafty answer for what I thought would be a nearly impossible task. Well done!

[IndyOp]

94. Thank you, I think. I hope the answer is more straightforward than crafty -

If by crafty you mean "tricky" or "clever without substance"...

In any case, I am not being optimistic by thinking that if Hillary gets in in 2008 she will stay until 2016 - I am being pessimistic - as in imagining the worst case scenario. How often in the past 30-40-50 years have we ousted an elected President after one term? Bush I is the only person I can think of. Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, GWB --- all re-elected. It seems that Americans have given over to the belief that the term is 8 years unless you really, really screw up in which case you are fired after 4.

We have lots and lots and lots of talent in this nation and each person has a different focus - diversity is strength.

[mtnsnake]

95. Your answer was fine

I was just suprised, that's all, because I thought you had been backed into a corner that you couldn't come out of...yet you did. I don't know if you planned it like that or not, but either way, I'm impressed.

[mod mom]

97. DEMOCRACY NOT DYNASTY. Love it, it has a great beat and you can dance to it.

:hi:

[IndyOp]

100. How HAPPY are YOU this morning??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x582783

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[mod mom]

101. Very HAPPY and ...

Harvey Wasserman has agreed to speak at the event I am working on:

CLIMATE CHANGE-A CALL TO ACTION

Climate Change-A Call to Action

Join us in taking steps in solving the Climate Crisis on the National Day of Climate Action.  Meet others concerned with stabilizing our climate and improving the environment for future generations.  We will discuss ways we all can make a difference and will promote Stepitup2007.org goal of :

"Step it up, Congress! Enact immediate cuts in carbon emissions, and pledge an 80% reduction by 2050. No half measures, no easy compromises - the time has come to take the real actions that can stabilize our climate."



http://stepitup2007.org/


and Mary Jo Kilroy (who ran against Deborah Pryce) woo-hoo!

[IndyOp]

102. mod mom ->

:yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

My little town is having it's Step It Up event in conjunction with our Saturday Farmer's Market - they will have bands, speakers, children's activities...

I am so glad to hear that you have it going on in Ohio, too -> :applause:

:bounce:

[mod mom]

104. over 1200 events nationwide! Glad to hear you are attnding one!

I'm going to post this at the Environment forum because I haven't read anything about these at DU!

[IndyOp]

109. I think that if you want "Step It Up" to get attention at DU -

You need to entitle the thread something like, "Hey DU! Do you want Al Gore to run for President?" and then put the Step It Up info with the message that the more Big Al feels that he is LOVED by the American people the more likely it is that he will brave the horrors of the American Media and political system -- i.e. the buzzsaw...

;-)

[Old and In the Way]

30. The real race is who wins the primaries.

I honestly don't see enough difference between our candidates to preclude a completely unified Party taking on whoever the Republican standard bearer is - they all have unique personal weaknesses, but they all share that awful Republican brand name.

A (Edwards / Clinton / Barrack / Gore / Richardson) - Clark ticket would be unbeatable, IMHO.

[mtnsnake]

37. Yup, the main event will be the Dem primaries

On the Republican side, the contest will be to see who they can choose to get their sorry ass kicked by our nominee. Whoever comes out of the Democratic heap is the next US prez. I dont care who the repukes throw at us.

[lyonn]

60. I'd like to add Biden and Dodd along with Clark.

All 3 have lots to offer.

[mtnsnake]

66. One of the deepest fields ever, without a doubt

All of them really do have tons to offer, as opposed to the other side, which only will offer more of the same.

Maybe that should be our battle cry in 2008. "A vote for Giuliani (or whoever repuke gets it) is a vote for more of the same."

[Old and In the Way]

74. No slights intended...we are blessed with a lot of capable and ethical leaders in our Party.

If one good thing has come from the media's biased predisposition to judge Democrat's far more harshly thean their Republican counterparts, we've done a better job of vetting candidates with issues before they become a problem. The Republicans, for the most part, have not had to worry about their ethical or even criminal actions becoming public knowledge. Today, I wonder if the currently constituted Republican Party can even entertain strong, ethical candidates for national office? I almost think the RNC requires their candidates be compromisable/blackmailable or willing to take orders without question in order to wear the Republican brand in national elections.

I really like Clark at VP, specifically, with any of the candidates running...we are going to need someone with the deep knowledge and earned authority to take on and reform the Pentagon and the MIC. Clark has the unique qualifications to do this job effectively. It is going to take 2 world-class Presidents to deal with all of the problems this administration has set us up for.

[jcrew2001]

35. Hillary could be okay as president but

she can't get elected, she has a small net of donors, and she has a ceiling of voters. People are sick of her and don't like her, and more importantly they don't like her as president. Her donor well will dry up very quickly, and Obama's will grow.

Looks like Clark has his opening to enter the race now....Hillary goes down, Clark comes in...

[hedgehog]

38. I think she could be one of the best presidents that money could buy.

[Stargleamer]

40. C'mon think about the mess she'll be inheriting. . .

Scientists, historians and others have all noted the long-lasting damage that Bush and his cronies have done. Trying to undo this damage isn't likely to leave much of a mark.

Then again, if she can have over 60 Democrats in the Senate, then maybe, just maybe. . .

[mtnsnake]

49. The lady will mop up

...and just like Obama or Edwards would do if they could win, she'll restore the dignity and honor to this country that Bush has taken away.

[Prophet 451]

72. Doubt it

That's not to discount Hillary but after the mess that BushCo will leave behind, I doubt the ability of any one human to turn things around in four or eight years.

[Forkboy]

41. You're a funny guy

I like that.

[mtnsnake]

47. ...

:smoke:

[Clarkie1]

42. Could be. I'd give it a 50/50 chance.

I think a lot of our nominees have that potential, some more than others.

[mtnsnake]

45. Might be one of the strongest Democratic fields ever

The hardest part for any of them will be getting through the primaries. Whichever of our heavyweights gets it could become one of the best ever. The country is ripe for us.

[A Simple Game]

43. Wow, 30 posts and not a one that bashes Hillary, well not too badly.

Only mtnsnake could do that.

You may be right, I don't really care, so far I like them all. Any of them would be an immeasurable improvement.

Tina Turner?

[mtnsnake]

48. It's still early

:evilgrin:

[A Simple Game]

51. Nope, your reputation scares them off. n/t

[mitchtv]

57. Congratulations and thank you for a voice of moderation

in the increasingly mean spirited"debat"about Senator Clinton. She is not my first choice ( I like Edwards and Richarson before her) In fact I like them all. The behavior of some here turns my stomach. I am 62 y/o and things are about as anti democrat as it has been since '68. They intend to do to Clinton what was done to Angelides here in Calif. The pukes will only have to copy the anti Senator Clinton talking points with few changes.

[mtnsnake]

61. and likewise to you for your voice of experience

From reading your post, I'd say you know what's going on.

:thumbsup:

[Tellurian]

58. ...

hmmm...

[Cameron27]

52. Nice post mtnsnake.

Ok she's not one of my favorites, but she'd be a damned good president. If she turns out to be nominee, this woman is going to fight like hell against any swiftboating --- and THAT I like.

[mtnsnake]

56. Thanks

Fight she will. She's already shown how she can do that. I'll never forget how she had Rush practically in tears after she lambasted him for getting on Chelsea's case. Also, none of us will ever forget how she came to the defense of Bill when the right wing was attacking him relentlessly, and nobody else came to his aid. She throttled them but good. That's why they're scared of her.

[AtomicKitten]

54. She could.

[mtnsnake]

62. ooh la la

Move over, Evita.

[AtomicKitten]

65. you are referring to me, of course, right?

[mtnsnake]

68. You shouldn't even have to ask

:loveya: :evilgrin:

[calimary]

67. Is that Hillary? What a lovely young woman!

It's just too bad about Hillary Rodham Clinton.

I actually think her intellect, experience, and willingness to tackle difficult things - AND willingness to work like a dog would indeed make her one of the better presidents. It's just her vaccilation on enough issues to trouble me.

Sigh...

I would very much like to see the Oval Office placed in a woman's hands for a change, considering the bang-up job some of the men have done in there. And I think she could handle it. I just wish I could support her. And she's so damned divisive - unfortunately with a huge amount of the population evidently intimidated or threatened by a strong woman.

That said, if she's our nominee, I'll be there for her. She on her worst day would be INFINITELY preferable to any of the assholes on the other side, on their best days.

[AtomicKitten]

71. I feel your pain.

But try to understand the meat grinder that woman has been in for 15+ years at the hands of the GOP Wrecking Machine scrutinizing her every word. And now some on the further left criticize the way she breathes. No wonder she weighs every word. Can you blame her? Just know that the GOP will attempt to make mincemeat of whoever we put up, so I'm not so sure "divisive" is even a relevant term under these circumstances.

Any of our candidates would make an excellent president. And, yes, she was quite lovely at that age. :)

[calimary]

82. No kidding!!!

You make some good points. I feel bad about Hillary because I actually would like to support her. I have friends who express surprise that I'm not rabidly in her camp. I would LOVE to see her level of brain-power brought to bear on some of the really horrible problems we have now, thanks to bushco. But all she has to do is open her eyes in the morning and the wrong-wingers are all over her. I've always wondered about that - just how frickin' THREATENED they are by a powerful, accomplished, brilliant woman. I mean, look how apoplectic they are over Nancy Pelosi. Dear God!

I think the bad rap against her is pretty damned unfair. But again, I'd like to see her coddle the wrong-wingers a little less. It's we LIBERALS who helped her - AND her husband - get where they are. It was we LIBERALS who were correct about the war, about bush, about cheney, about EVERYTHING. I wish she'd remember who originally brought her to the dance. But then again, I'm not much into trying to compromise with the mindset that has taken our nation straight down into the bowels of hell.

Ahhh... Hillary, Hillary, Hillary...

[Kablooie]

55. He's not even a citizen! He's a great mountain climber though.

[mtnsnake]

59. Whoever it is your talking about, he's alright by me. I love hiking up mountains

[Kablooie]

110. Why, Sir Edmund Hillary, of course!

[bamacrat]

69. Maybe, probably but doubt she will get the chance.

[Cabcere]

73. No offense intended to Senator Clinton or any of the other candidates,

but honestly, I think that pretty much whoever becomes the next President of the USA is going to look pretty damn awesome in comparison to GWB. :shrug: Just my opinion.

[mtnsnake]

75. lol, you got that right

Probably that's why so many of the heavyweights, future ones or not, have thrown their hats into the ring on both sides. After Bush, there's only one way for this country to go...and that's up. Just the same, it's going to be one heck of a job considering what he's leaving behind.

[Cabcere]

76. "Heck of a job..."

Gosh, I hope Brownie doesn't run. :P That could be disastrous!

[DemExpat]

84. Great post!

:thumbsup:

:bounce:

DemEx

[mrgorth]

86. What drugs are you on?

.

[mtnsnake]

87. Just one right now. Truth Serum

:smoke:

[mrgorth]

88. She hasn't won

jack dick yet so don't count those chickens yet kimosabe.

[mtnsnake]

89. I didn't say she did, genius

[Jennicut]

91. The problem with Hillary for me and others like me is that

we don't believe an once of crap the woman says. I doubt she really believes in anything besides power. Was I happy to have Bill Clinton in after all those years of the Rethugs messing things up? Yes. But I am not naive, he had his own problems and issues. I think both Clintons believe in power above all else. That is not the type of people I want running the Dem party. We deserve better. Is it wrong to want something better, something more inspirational? I really don't have an issue with Hillary's governing from the center if that was really where her strong beliefs were. I have a problem with her holding her finger to the wind and taking such a cautious uninspiring view to every major issue facing us. If you all want a stong woman look no further than Nancy Pelosi, who governs with charm and likability but also can seem to get solid things done. Plus, she seems to really believe in what she says. I am a woman myself but I want the best person for the job, not just who raises the most money or who can control the media and get positive coverage. Unlike many here, I truly do think Hillary can win the nomination and the presidency. However, it might not be the best thing for the country. I just can't forgive Bill for some of his mistakes and Hillary is tied into those mistakes. The pardon of Marc Rich is a huge one for me. Do a google search and learn. The attempt to blacklist other candidates from certain donors. Hillary's lackeys (Begala, Carville) badmouthing Howard Dean. The list goes on and on. I don't like Hillary and never will. I suppose i will have to vote for her as any Rethug is 10 times worse. But I would hate to settle.

[mtnsnake]

93. Well done

If only everyone expressed their opinion in the manner you do, the rumor mill would cease to exist.

[dionysus]

98. hahahaha

one toke over the line, sweet hillary, one toke over the line. Standing outside of the DLC station, one toke over the line...

[PATRICK]

103. Bluntly, another assessment.

All I can say is "President Gore", "President Kerry" for whom the same statements were made. This "could and would" has turned so often into the "should have, but was robbed" that it is not very effective an argument anymore why people should cut total slack for a candidate who is not too popular. We have been taken to that well to see our hopes drowned maybe twice too often.

The Kerry supporters did not appreciate what a cruel barrier kept their candidate from getting appreciated, but it was overcome. Noton edit: enough) so in the general election. The Democratic primaries with those bitter memories might find such talk alarming and repelling. If Hillary supporters in their turn, like the Gore and Kerry supporters of yore, want to take this tack one more time maybe they should understand why the voters might slam the door shut on their foot.

Maybe we have a hundred candidates who would be the "greatest" ever seen simply because schnooks and crooks have an unfair advantage of filling the rest of the pages.

We want a sea change, not exceptionalism. We need and demand it. And that "we" is the heart and majority of the population.

[Learn2Swim]

105. Heheheh...

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you there, but I did get a kick out of it. :rofl: :-)

[mtnsnake]

106. Glad you enjoyed it

B-)

[Javaman]

107. That could be said about anyone, because it's up to the elected person

to screw it up.

moron* was appointed, had it handed to him on a silver fucking platter and not only did he* screw it up, he* broke it down, splittered it and set it on fire.

[mmonk]

108. Time sorts these things out.

Including who will be our nominee and who will win the office.