Anti-War, lefty, progressive people check in please!

[Cascadian]

Just want to see if you all are out there. I am feeling a little lonely in here right now. Too many DLCers in full force. I am getting attacked everytime I slam Hillary's record. I want to know I am not alone here! Kucinich supporters esepcially show yourselves.


John

[Nica-Libre]

1. Anti-war lefty checking in...

Hillary is just not for me. I'm pulling for Obama, though. Can I still be in this thread?

[Cascadian]

7. Of course.

Always welcome! :hi:


John

[GregD]

Yo!

[Czolgosz]

2. You're not alone.

[Erika]

3. Any Dem who slams one of our candidates slams them all

I have uttermost respect for Dennis for holding to his principles. You don't see him downing other Dems. Do you see a message?

[Nica-Libre]

12. and where has Obama slammed another dem?

High moral ground isn't soley owned by Kucinich, ya know.

[Czolgosz]

13. That's part of the primary process - demanding better from those candidates who less perfectly

reflect our best values.

[IndianaGreen]

19. Primaries are so bothersome to those expecting a coronation

If they are so thin skinned now, how are they going to be when Hillary catches flak from both the Left and the Right?

[Cascadian]

26. That is all what the conventions are about these days.

They are coronations and that is what the Hillaryistas want and be damned if anybody get in the way. Politics in this country has become such a freaking joke!



John

[truedelphi]

78. Except for Chris Matthews, I see the RW Talking Heads

Almost imploring the public to like her.

I think that any rational person has to realize that this is who the RW wants as their candidate.

Maybe they don't own some nasty goods on her - maybe they just have already invested too much time in figuring out how to smear her - but it seems to me that they are setting her up.

If so, why?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

56. here we go again.

where's the popcorn?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dr.Phool]

5. Yo!

[GregD]

8. echo!

[IndianaGreen]

6. Present and accounted for!

For a politician, war is easy, peace is hard.

[ThomCat]

9. I'm here.

:hi:

No,you're definitely not alone.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

10. hippie-lefty anti-war liberal checkin in

you are SO NOT alone!

[Dhalgren]

11. Kucinich supporter here!

Don't lose heart! Remember, "War is over, if you want it." Peace can be. It isn't easier to fight and make war and kill and destroy - those things profit only a few. Peace, cooperation, understanding, tolerance, reason, justice, prudence - all of these profit everyone. We can do this...

[AlCzervik]

14. i supported Dean last time round and still have posters up, Dean was right.

i'm leaning one way right now but i'll see how it goes.

[Cascadian]

16. Dean supporters ALWAYS welcome!

I still think he was the better candidate in '04. He should have won!

[AlCzervik]

18. Dean gave me hope plus he didn't take any shit. Also liked Clark for the same reason

plus Clark referred to Bush in his flight suit "As prancing around on deck".

[Cascadian]

I know it's a bit late but a Dean/Clark ticket would have been tops!

I guess there's nothing wrong with imagining the things that might have been.


John

[Cascadian]

20. DUPE

remove

[Le Taz Hot]

63. And the same DLC

corporate operatives have decided now that Hillary is more, what was that word again? Oh yeah, "electable." :eyes:

[juno jones]

15. Here

I really think the american public is in need of a 'little bit of the strange', as it were. I'm tired of the tale of two families.

And now for something completely different....

[RufusTFirefly]

17. Reporting for duty!

As a lefty who recognizes that politics is the art of the possible, I'm ready to compromise, but I have my limits.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cascadian]

23. I have been on here for 4 years.

Never have I ever been a Mole and nobody asked you to post on this thread.


You are officially ignored!



John

[Erika]

24. I was against the attack on Iraq but I won't badmouth dems

but I'll be damned if I badmouth Dem candidates.

[Erika]

I was against the attack on Iraq but I won't badmouth dems

but I'll be damned if I badmouth Dem candidates.

[Cascadian]

27. Okay. Fair enough!

But I will not be afraid to call B.S. when I see it! Even if it comes from a Democrat.


John

[truedelphi]

79. I will only vote for someone with a strong progressive heart

And soul.

I'd vote for Dean, Gore, Jim Webb (wish he was running!), Kucinich, Al Sharpton, Edwards.

Anyone trying to pass a Universal health Care bill that includes alot of payout to Insurance Execs gets my hackles up. Though if Hill is the only Dem possibility, I guess I'd hold my nose.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudDad]

38. A snake in the grass

is like too many stems in the weed...

Big bummer, man...

[mtnsnake]

53. I'll give you a break today, pop.

Next time I wont be so accomodating though. Now run along...

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

67. Please don't personally attack others. Cascadian tries to stay fair even in tough exchanges, and

many of us survived the 2004 primary by maintaining a level of fairness and civility even at the most trying times.

Not sure why you get away with calling other DU posters liars or delusional, but ...hey...lucky you....I guess.

[paulk]

86. "Cascadian" posts things that are outright lies

about Democratic candidates...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3196452

he lied in this thread about HRC's vote on Alito, then went back and edited it out when called on it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3196563#3196635

and also lied here about what HRC said, then again went back and edited it when called on it.

I'm surprised to see you defending this poster.

[Cascadian]

91. I ADMIT TO MAKING A MISTAKE!

Apparently that's not allowed on DU. OH DAMN ME! FYI I got the info from this article....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/why-hillary-clinton-is-no_b_21833.html


I do apologize for not mentioning this in the original post.




John

[blm]

103. Sure he and I have tangled in the past, but not namecalled. And if he editted out the mistake

then isn't that proof he wasn't lying about the vote, just mistaken about it?

Many times I had to correct those who believed the 2004 Dem candidates voted for Bush's taxcuts when it turned out NONE of them did, not even Lieberman. Some wouldn't correct their mistake, but some would.

If someone edits to correct a mistake, then it probably was just a mistake.

[Cascadian]

89. I really try to go out of my to not insult people and name calling but....

with these attacks and insults, it is getting harder for me to be fair and be civil. Their actions are reminisent of second grade. All this name calling and insults have got to stop. I wished the mods would crack down on this garbage! I really do.


John

[rinsd]

102. What a big fat steaming pile

You start threads attacking Democrats and insulting large swaths of people.

Projection is not a sympton of right winger's disease alone I suppose.

[Cascadian]

111. I never started calling anybody names.

Where did you get that bit of disinformation? I NEVER started it! If a Democrat misteps and supports something as disasterous like the IWR, I am going to call them on it. I am not afraid to call bullshit if I see it and that isn't reserved for Republicans but for Democrats as well. At least I can expect the grabage from Republicans but Democrats? I think we can do better than that!


John

[rinsd]

112. Ummm

Implying supporters of Hillary are DLC(which if one is I could care less but the term tends to be a pejoprative around here and you should know that), implying supproters of Hillary are somehow organized/paid, called them neocons and that's just on this thread.

"I NEVER started it!"

So are you under the age of 12 or do you possess enough maturity to either ignore such or in the event of you need to counter attack actually standing by those actions isneatd of using the excuse for your tactics as "they started it"

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mmonk]

22. I'm here.

I've just been busy today.

[Phredicles]

28. You rang? For '08: 1) Gore;2) Kucinich; 3) Just not HClinton...

Is it true that the DLC's official motto is: "The DLC - Because one Republican Party just isn't enough"? If not, it certainly should be.

[peacetalksforall]

29. Gore supporter checking in. I don't have to get to know him. I don't

have to be bewildered about issues. I don't think he stands for the same things the DLC and DLC supported candidates stand for at this point in time. I appreciate people who grow and speak plain about issues important to me. When my ear hears perfect campaign rhetoric, my body revolts. I admire anyone who digs in and learns the issues, analyses, speaks with depth on many subjects, thinks for himself.

But how does anyone step in and straighten out the mess we're in.

There are several good thinkers. And one who is not running thinks AND acts. Feingold.

[SaveElmer]

30. "Too many DLCers in full force."

You mean the two or three of us that are calling you out on your distortions...?

:rofl:

[wyldwolf]

50. ... but we're organized and paid operatives. We therefore have the upperhand

...we have a legion of researchers at our disposal, and when something factually inaccurate is posted about the DLC (or, well, any Democrat), we're immediately dispatched from DLC Central to make the lefties cry.

[SaveElmer]

66. Speakin of which...did you get your check...

Mine must have gotten lost in the mail...

:rofl:

[unkachuck]

31. checking in....

....I'm present and accounted for....


edited to add:

....may the blood-sucking right and left wing war-profiteering fascists, who never met a dead body they couldn't profit from, rot in the slimiest place in hell....

[mntleo2]

32. 3rd Generation Lefty (That I Know Of) Here!

...my granddaddy was a WOBBLY and the other one a UNION railroad man and maybe there are more going back further, I don't know.

Do not be afraid to tell the truth dear man, the truth will set you free!

Some of us won't forget that just 3 years ago Clinton went around the country with LIEberman crowing about how "wonderful" Welfare DEformed is. Yeah right. A law that has plunged millions of families into permanent poverty and made it law that working a McJob is "better" than parenting, "better" than getting an educatkion and it is "better" to leave 2 month old babies in daycare than with their mothers. Oh yeah that is SO wonderful. It is SO wonderful Welfare-to-Work is killing good paying union jobs in many states. Then people wonder why they can't get paid family leave on the table since it has been codified into law that parenting is now "doing nothing."

Thank YEW Bill and Hillary Clinton!

I will *never* forgive her for holding hands with such a sleaze bag as LIEberman ~ much less touting such elitist, classist crap. Never

Cat In Seattle <---fierce low income advocate who knows 1rst hand what horrible things poverty is doing to low income American families

[Cascadian]

35. Labor needs to start getting angry again.

The American worker is getting screwed over all over the place. People need to march(peacefully) on the streets and not back down from these corporatists that are draining our jobs and our lives.

Kudos to you, man!


John

[bread_and_roses]

98. Raising hand, HERE! I don't forget Welfare "deform" either, or

"Free Trade."

[IsItJustMe]

107. Damn, you said a mouth full. I will never forget either.

[treelogger]

33. You may not like my answer.

Sure, I'll make you feel better. I think that starting the Iraq (and Afghanistan) wars were two horrible mistakes. Both are immoral, illegal, and everything is wrong with them. After 9/11, a police action or law enforcement action was required, to catch and prosecute the people who committed those attacks (in the same fashion as catching McVeigh and Nichols after the OK city attacks). Instead, the events of 9/11 gave the shrub a convenient excuse to live out his phantasies, provided full employment for his neocon friends, and allowed him to restore the honor of the Bush family by finishing the job his father was unable to finish. Now it will take one or two generations of careful diplomacy and ethical international behavior by the US to restore its standing in the world.

Now comes the part you are going to dislike. Before the invasions, Afghanistan and Iraq were reasonably stable countries. Certainly with medium to bad records on human rights, certainly with some internal problems like somewhat broken economies. But with regimes that were supported by a good fraction of their population (not democratically elected, but supported). And both functioning countries, in which normal people could usually lead somewhat productive lives.

What we have now is two totally broken countries, with rump governments the US has artificially implanted, both in a de-facto state of civil war, no working infrastructure, and human rights problems that are much worse than they were under the taliban or under the baath praty. The US invasions have completely destroyed these countries, and caused terrible suffering to its people. At this point, the US is honor bound to fix the problems it has caused, and at the minimum repair the two places back to be as good as when it found it, preferably make them into models for their respective areas.

Here is the simple example: If I borrow a tool from my neighbor, and I damage it when using it, I can't just return it broken. I can either repair it to the point where it is as good as when I borrowed it, or I can replace it with a nice new one. This is my moral obligation.

So, I happen to agree with the shrub on one small thing: We need to send more soldiers to Iraq. But his numbers are all wrong: Not an extra 20,000, but an extra 400,000. That should be enough to pacify the country, occupy it completely, rebuild the economy and civil infrastructure (such as schools and roads), and start a legal process of cleaning up the abuses. How did I come up with that number? It is a rough guess; the army counter-insurgency manual calls for one soldier for each 50-70 population, and there are about 25 million people in Iraq. I might be wrong by some margin on that estimate, but it is not too ridiculous. The US proved in Germany and Japan that it can perform nation-building (and I grew up in postwar Germany, so I can attest to it having worked remarkably well).

And if I say soldiers, I mean soldiers. Not Blackwater and CACI contractors. In my view, the government still has a monopoly on force. Contractors are fine, but not in any form of law enforcement or military role. Here is a simple test: Contractors should be unarmed, and have no powers of arrest, nor rules of engagement.

The people of the US, through their freely elected senators, chose bring war to Iraq (and to Afghanistan, but compared to Iraq that is a small problem). That was a terrible mistake. Unfortunately, many democrats took part in that terrible mistake. Now, they have to stand up to the mistake, and fix it. From this point of view, the current debate about resolutions that remove US troups is massively wrong-headed.

I apologize if my views were not what you requested.

[ProudDad]

41. Let's use a more apt metaphor

"If I borrow a tool from my neighbor, and I damage it when using it, I can't just return it broken. I can either repair it to the point where it is as good as when I borrowed it, or I can replace it with a nice new one. This is my moral obligation."

bush didn't "borrow" anything.

The more correct analogy is:

I tell all the neighbors that one of our neighbors (about a block away, near the gas station) is dangerous. My neighbors all know they're not dangerous. They tell me to leave the home alone.

I get a few of my more neighbors to join me, well, at least I get a few of the mental defectives to join me and then I tell the rest of my neighbors to go fuck themselves.

I break into the neighbor's house, remember, the one near the gas station. I break all their furniture. I kill their pets. I lock them all into two of the bedrooms and take over the living room. I live there for years and toss scraps into the bedrooms where I've locked up the neighbors. As a result of the stress I've caused them, they begin fighting among themselves when they aren't lobbing chicken bones at me when I'm not looking.

My neighbors still think I should leave and let the family put their lives back together again. Instead, I call a few more of my mentally defective friends to come move in with me. If there are more of us, that'll make the rest locked in the bedroom behave. As soon as they behave, I'll leave...

Iraq will stay broken until we get our sorry asses out of there and let the rest of the world, the SANE PART, help those folks put their country together again.

[bvar22]

65. In order to FIX Iraq....

In order to FIX Iraq, the USA must STOP BREAKING Iraq.
The US Military does NOT "Fix Things".
The US Military BREAKS Things and KILLS People. THAT is their ONLY job.
Killing People and Breaking Things is what we pay them to do.

US Military OUT. UN Peacekeepers IN.


BTW: What do you mean by "pacify the country"?


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Cascadian]

95. You get no argument from me.

The Democrat MUST get the troops home and to hell with what Bush wants. It is a time for action and defiance in the face of the Neocons and that includes those who enable the Neocon agenda.


John

[treelogger]

132. Nonsense about the military

You said: "The US Military does NOT "Fix Things". The US Military BREAKS Things and KILLS People. THAT is their ONLY job."
With all due respect, that is not quite correct (I could have used stronger words, but they would have been impolite). Look at Germany and Japan after WW2.

You asked: "What do you mean by "pacify the country"?"
Totally stop all violence. Prevent people from harming other people. This probably requires completely disarming the country, and very heavy policing. This was for example done after WW2 - violent crime and all forms of warfare stopped, together with all other economic and social activity. There is a reason that the army manual calls for one soldier per 50-70 inhabitants for an occupation.

It seems obvious to me that stopping the current civil war (in both Afghanistan and Iraq) that has been started by the US invading these countries is a prerequisite to turning those countries into civil societies.

I understand that the cost (both to the US and to Iraq/Afghanistan, both in money and in lives) of pacifying and rebuilding them would be great. But the cost to Iraq/Afghanistan of not doing so would be far greater. And the US went into these wars knowingly, with support from the administration, from congress, and judging by the polls a majority of the population, so at this point it is necessary to pay the bills for the thing we started.

[bvar22]

138. And would you advocate....

And would you advocate the elimination of 80%plus of the male population of Iraq, especially those between 14 and 60 in order to pacify the country?

The fighting age male populations of Japan and Germany were virtually eliminated during WW2, and most of those countries were bombed and burned into rubble BEFORE the Marshall Plan. Is THAT what you want?

The US WAS successful in pacifying the West for White European settlement.
Do you wish the fate of the Native American on the indigenous population of Iraq?

THINK about what you are saying. "Pacifying" seems like a such a good thing. Ask any VietNam Vet what "pacifying an area" really meant.

You might be surprised at the large number of Military Personnel who disagree with you.
For your own education, Google "Break things and kill people".
Here is one hit:
"Retired U.S. Army Col. David Hackworth is a cocky American military commander who for half a century was at the front lines of the Army's most important battles....The American Army is trained to break things and kill people ...


I WILL NOT sign on for the US Military to "pacify" anything.
Would YOU like to be "pacified" by the US Marines?

[treelogger]

140. You are exaggerating ...

... to the point of turning your "arguments" into an utter farce.

You say: "And would you advocate the elimination of 80%plus of the male population of Iraq, especially those between 14 and 60 in order to pacify the country? The fighting age male populations of Japan and Germany were virtually eliminated during WW2, ..."

I don't know where you grew up. I don't know where you learned history. I grew up in Germany. My parents were at the bottom end of fighting age at the end of WW2. My uncles were in the middle of fighting age at the end of fighting age at the end of WW2. My grandfather and my granduncles were at the upper end of your scale at the end of WW2. Many friends of the family were in that range. Of all those close friends and relatives, I know only one who was killed (an uncle). Your assertion that 80% plus of the male population in Japan and Germany must have been eliminated is completely ludicrous. A sensible estimate might be 10% or 20%.

Here is a very simple counter-argument: If your assertion that 80% would have to be killed to pacify where true, and you are including nearly all men of child-making age, than the few remaining men should have had on average 5 wives, in order to enable the large jump in population after the war. Admittedly, the baby boom in Germany was delayed about 5-10 years compared to the one in the US, but the cause of that wasn't unavailability of men, but it took the economy a long time to get back up to speed. Sure, there were war widows, even a significant number (my elemantary school teacher was one), but they were by no means the vast majority.

You say "... and most of those countries were bombed and burned into rubble BEFORE the Marshall Plan. Is THAT what you want?
That is once again nonsense. At the end of WW2 in Germany, a reasonably fraction of the means of production were broken, and a reasonable fraction of housing in the big cities (maybe 1/3 on average) was gone. Towards the summer of 1945, industrial production came to a virtual standstill. But the reasons for that was not that 99% (or even 80%) of plants were gone. The reasons were (fortunately) much more superficial: Complete lack of fuel (no oil, once the Rumanian sources had become unavailable to Germany), breakdown of long-distance transportation (train stations and railroad lines bombed), and breakdown of the command and control structure. In many industries, operation started again within a year or two. My dad finished high school in the last 40s (I think in 1948), and immediately got a job as an apprentice accountant at the big Blaupunkt radio factory in his hometown, which had survived the war completely intact (because the allies had been under the mistaken impression that it was located downtown, and had nearly levelled the commercial center of town, including my grandparent's house, which required them to move to first a shelter, then to relatives in the suburbs, until they found a rebuild apartment in town about 1947 or 1948).

You say "The US WAS successful in pacifying the West for White European settlement."
No, Europe and Japan had already been settled, and most of the people (with a certain percentage dead) were still there after the war. The place continued to be settled by the same people (except for many who were unfortunately missing, for example all my jewish relatives on the other side of the family).

You write "Do you wish the fate of the Native American on the indigenous population of Iraq?"
That is a complete non-sequitur. Has anyone suggested that the Iraqis be moved to reservations, so puritans from New England can settle in Iraq? I'm suggesting that Iraq be competely disarmed, and policed heavily enough that violences stops, for several years. This requires closing Iraq's borders to neighboring states from which warring factions can smuggle arms, and it requires severe punishment for anyone who tries to play civil war. Once violence stops, a rebuilding of industrial and commercial activity can begin. Once Iraqis find themselves with jobs, an economy, and something useful to do, they might with to (and be able to) create a stable society. Or they might wish to go back to bashing each other's brains in, if that's their preference (it's a free country, they can do as they please). But once the US has restored Iraq to a stable, safe and productive society, it's obligation to fix the damage it has wrought in Iraq is satisfied.

[mntleo2]

34. Dupe ~ Sorry!

[Norrin Radd]

36. here

:hi:

[ProudDad]

37. Anti-War since 1964

and Proud Of It!!!

I discovered that I was anti-war at the U.S. Naval Academy and immediately resigned. In just 4 short years was playing lead guitar in a S.F. Acid Rock Band and working against the Vietnam war.

I consider ray-gun and bush I and bush the lesser the anti-Christ...

I consider Hillary Clinton WAY TOO CORPORATE.

I like Fidel and LOVE Chavez...Although I'm a bit further to the left than Fidel...

We've got your back Cascadian... :hi:

[Cascadian]

39. Thank you! n/t

[Cascadian]

93. Thanks, man!

We all have to stick together and not be afraid to fight back and help each other out. Unfortunately, the days of being civil and playing fair on DU is over. We have to hit back and hit back harder at these people.


John

[Cascadian]

40. Thanks and Peace to you all!

I don't conisder myself a hippie or a pacifist but I know what the difference between right and wrong. I also know I am not perfect and if I make a mistake on some information I may have, I appreciate somebody correcting me instead of chiding and bashing me like some people have on these boards. I know what is in my heart and mind that is right. I know you all do too.

Thanks again and let's look out for each other on here and in the words of Mike Malloy "Keep it lit!"



John

[gimama]

42. Group-Kuchy-Hug!

(((HUG!)))

[calimary]

43. Here! Still leaving a light on in the window for Al Gore.

Do not feel alone. 'Cause you're NOT.

[eridani]

44. Been exactly that since 1963

Unfortunately, like all too many lefties, I dropped out of electoral politics in 1973. Trying to make up for lost time.

[niallmac]

46. Reporting for duty. eom

[sampsonblk]

47. Here!

I am standing my ground. You keep up the good fight!

[MethuenProgressive]

48. Anti-Iraq war, pro-Afghan/bin Laden fight, no Hill Hater, pro-Gore/Clark

I want us out of Iraq, and I want bin Laden's head on stake.
I think its a shame so many decent folks have bought the Republican anti-Hillary propaganda.
Hillary looks like the best candidate in the race right now, but I want Gore or Clark or Kerry.
Dennis is a dweeb, Edwards is Dukakis in short pants, and there's not much to Obama at all.

Do I have to leave DU now that I've refused the kool-ade?

[Cascadian]

88. No you don't have to leave DU.

Neither do I. Unfortunately, it is obvious some people want us who are against Hillary to leave. We have to keep fighting back.


John

[sazemisery]

49. Front and Center!

[Greyhound]

51. We're here, bloody and beaten, but still here.

Ours is a sad lot, constantly ridiculed and derided by virtually everybody in spite of the fact that we are always, as in without exception, right.

It invariably takes the short-sight and terminally greedy years, sometimes generations, to figure out that we were right all along, and they never give us the credit for their "enlightenment", claiming it was their idea all along, when they finally do figure it out.

This one's for you.:grouphug:

[Cascadian]

94. Thanks.

Right back at ya!


John

[JNelson6563]

52. Anti-war progressive checking in!

:hi:

[KoKo]

54. Another one. I'm going to send Kooch some money...but still hoping Gore

will come in at the last minute. Until then we need a strong voice who isn't raking in bags of money from the "usual sources."

[ChairmanAgnostic]

55. they are doing the same on every moderate and liberal website

it is a push, organized by the campaign, and they are working in concert. I guess the vast reich wing conspiracy can only be combatted by a vast internet push by Hillarians.

They will tire of this once they realize that they aren't convincing anyone, they are just pissing real people off.

[Skinner]

60. I'm really getting tired of seeing this particular "argument" on DU.

By all means, criticize candidates all you like.

But let's stop the underhanded broad-brush smears about people who support them. There is no reason to believe that supporters of some Democratic candidates "real people," while supporters of other candidates are here as part of some organized campaign. Baseless broad-brush smears like this are highly inflammatory, and they detract from discussions of real issues.

I believe that we are better than this.

[Cascadian]

61. DING DING DING! We have a winner!

Of course this is a campaign organized probably by the Clinton handlers to shove their candidate in our faces and if anybody gets in the way, smash them! That is all. Some of the people who are pro-Hillary have not even been on these boards before. Hasn't anybody noticed this?


John

[AtomicKitten]

68. self-edit

[SaveElmer]

81. Reached 10,000 posts today...

I suppose I was planted here 5 years ago specifically for this purpose eh?

[ProudDad]

105. Hmmm

Isn't it time to get a life? :shrug:

On edit:

Quantity doesn't equal quality...

[Forkboy]

120. Congrats on the 10K

:toast:

[AtomicKitten]

122. happy 10,000 posts to you

[calimary]

134. Congrats!

:toast:

[Cascadian]

139. I am not convinced nor am I impressed.

It has all of the hallmarks of a bunch of third graders call each other names. I have just been critical of them without hurling insults and name calling. I am just calling B.S. as I see it.


John

[DIKB]

57. I got your back.

Hillary = NOT MY CANDIDATE

Not one DLC Dem can convince me her hawkishness towards Iraq, and Iran both can EVER be excused by her support of liberal causes.

This pacifist will DIE before I EVER support an unapologetic pro-war candidate.

[Jennicut]

58. I support some of Kucinich's ideals

and I really a sick of certain Dems telling others that they should not criticize Dem candidates. That is such rubbish! Last time I looked at the constitution (the parts Chimpy hasn't destroyed yet) I thought it was my right to be able to criticize who I want when I want and however I want. If one loses their ability or right to criticize then one eventually realizes that they have come to live in a dictatorship. I will slam Hillary for her whishy washy Iraq views all I want. I will slam other Dems for their corruption or pork spending, scandals or anything else I don't agree with. That does not mean I support Rethugs because they got us in this mess of a war in the first place as well as ruined the economy, raised the deficit, took corruption to a new level, etc. But get real! If you don't constantly question things you become nothing to those in power. Just sheep willingly led to slaughter. I like some Dems and think all the third party offerings right now suck. If the Dems could clean up their act I would be happy. But don't be naive. Many Dems in congress are so tied to corporations they don't make a move without their say. Just because the Rethugs are corrupt beyond anything we have ever seen does not make some Dems much better. Just slightly, but not much. Look at the ridiculousness of the amount of money being raised so soon by these candidates. Our democracy is becoming a plutocracy where the entrance fee to power is so high only those rich and powerful can attain it. Maybe its always been this way, to some extent. But its getting worse and I have have a right to criticize the Dems that promote the idea of money=power.

[Le Taz Hot]

62. We're here.

The loudmouths are just more prolific. :hi:

[peace13]

64. Alive and well.

Had a heckler at our peace vigil last night. He was videoing our group to post on the 'web'. We asked him if we could take his picture and he agreed so two of our guys stood beside him with their signs held out front. It is so funny, it looks like the guy is one of us. This man stops every Tuesday night and calls us communists. Next week we are going to have a poster made with this picture on it and 'Americans For Peace' underneath. When he stops by we will hold it up for him to enjoy. You have to keep your sense of humor in this business! Peace, Kim

[Larry Ogg]

69. The pendulum swings twice too the Right and once too the Left, so moves the center…

I said this before and I will say it again. I will never forget the words of some Republicans when they lost control of congress to the Democrats in 06, “Thank God that the new Democrats are at least Conservative”. God forbid any real liberal being elected that might stand in the way of the elite’s quest to suck the life blood out of this country. Starving slaves are not conservative, but conservatives will make starving slaves of us all…

[bvar22]

70. Lefty HERE!

:hippie:

Actually, I'm a Centrist, simply because I support the issues that the Majority of Americans (Democrat & Republican) support. If you listen to the CorpoMedia and the Corporate Owned wing of the Democratic Party (DLC), you would believe that I'm an insane "fringe" radical.


Here is what the MAJORITY of Americans (Democrats AND Republicans) want from OUR government!

In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic Party:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."


http://alternet.org/wiretap/29788/

8. Over 63% oppose the War on the Iraqi People.

9. 92% of ALL Americans support TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x446445

There is a HUGE disconnect between our Government and The People.
BIG MONEY will decide who our two choices are in 2008, and 2008 will be a WIN/WIN for them.


I am a solid Kucinich supporter, and will campaign for him to stay in the race all the way to the Hillary Coronation at the Democratic Convention. If we can't get him elected (or nominated) I, at least, want someone to give voice to the issues of the REAL Democratic Party (Working Americans).

After looking at The ISSUES, I find it impossible to support anyone else. I also find it incredible that anyone who is a member of a Progressive website could support any of the other options being offered by the Democratic Party.


DUers, please notice the number of thread hijacking attempts by the right wing screamers.
This is a thread asking Liberals to "check in".






The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[ButterflyBlood]

71. yep here

I know what you mean about the Hillary bashing too. Some DUers appear to want to ban all anti-Hillary posts.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtomicKitten]

87. your view of politics is hopelessly myopic

You have no clue that there is a myriad of opinion within the Democratic Party. In your world, it's DLC versus the leftie mob. That is as far removed from reality as your failure to address the real opposition, the GOP.

Good luck on your campaign at DU.

[Cascadian]

92. It's easy to attack the Republicans.

At least I know what to expect but when Democratic lawmakers back things like the IWR and do nothing about the nomination of Neocon justices like Alito then somebody should call them out on this! I am not afraid to call bullshit on Democrats when they do not do what they are suppose to do. We elected them last year to go after Bush and they have done very little to do this.


John

[AtomicKitten]

104. I share your dismay

and, quite frankly, disgust at Dem complicity in the IWR. I will not reward any of the knuckleheads who voted 'yes' on the IWR in the primary.

At the same time, I also acknowledge that the Democratic Party is the only viable avenue to winning the White House in 2008 and, more importantly, keeping it out of GOP hands. I view getting a Dem in the White House in 2008 as more important than which Dem in particular wins. I've got my eye on the precarious balance of the Supreme Court.

Rather than launching grenades within the party (which is what you are doing with your campaign to trash-talk Hillary (and please understand that is much different than honest criticism), it is infinitely more productive to try to move the party in the direction we want to go. The risk at best is splitting the vote, at worst implosion. Because when rubber meets the road, any Democrat is waaaaaaaaaaaaay preferable to any Republican.

It serves no purpose to hamstring our candidates with dishonest, dishonorable rhetoric; any one of them may get the nod. In my opinion, it would be irretrievably retarded to not vote or vote third party in 2008 with the Supreme Court hanging in the balance.

[rinsd]

101. LOL

This would be funny if it weren't so sad

"you're either with us or you're with the Republicans"

This is the exact attitude of far too many on this board whther they are farther to the left or more moderate it does not matter.

[Learn2Swim]

72. Present

I'm here too. :hi:

[AtomicKitten]

73. Is it ignorance or hubris

... that makes some blind to the fact that there is a wide spectrum of opinion within the Democratic Party? To characterize the members as DLC or lefties is at best naive and I suspect intended to be purposively divisive.

And, for that reason and others, I can say without equivocation that liberals like myself - yes, Virginia, another breed of leftie altogether - are loathe to associate themselves with progressives and insist on that clarification.

[petunia.here]

74. To World Peace Forever.

A candidate actually running on a peace platform?! How could this second generation hippie not support Kucinich? :D

[emcguffie]

75. I love Kucinich.

Please, please, spare us all from Hill.

You know, many of us just don't bother to participate. But that doesn't mean we're not here. I don't know anyone who likes Hill.

I think it's all propaganda, because THEY want her to be the nominee.

I don't even believe any polls that say she's "the favorite". I don't believe a word of it.

[bearfan454]

76. bearfan checking in nt

[hippywife]

77. Presente'!

Proud lefty peace activist reporting. Don't feel alone. We are here.

[DixieBlue]

80. Howdy!

I've been feeling very lonely and overwhelmed for quite a long time.

[dajoki]

82. Liberal and proud...

Been that way my whole life, but the older I get the more left I go!!

[robinlynne]

83. oh wer'e here, all right!

[Jim Lane]

84. Quasi-Kucinich supporter here

If I could pick the President from the current candidates, I'd pick Kucinich.

I might end up voting for someone else in the primary, though. For example, if by then it's effectively come down to only two candidates who have a realistic shot at the nomination, with Kucinich hitting around 3% the way he did last time, I might cast a strategic vote for the better of the two remaining viable candidates.

In other words, much as I like Dennis, I probably wouldn't pass up the chance to vote against Hillary. I rank her as last or next-to-last among the Dems -- the uncertainty arising only because I don't know enough about Mike Gravel.

That said, I will of course vote for Hillary (or any other conceivable Democratic nominee) over any conceivable Republican nominee or third-party candidate.

[Marnieworld]

90. I voted for Kucinich in 2004

Sure it was a lost cause then but it felt good!

Commie pinko liberal bleeding heart hippie moonbat and proud!

Give me a Department of Peace.
End the Drug war and release all non-violent people convicted of simple possession.

Poor whatever amount of money into the Gulf Coast necessary to re-build and bring the same people back into their homes.

No more pre-emptive wars.
Restore Checks and Balances.
The Unitary Executive Theory is total bullshit.
Torture of anyone under any circumstances is absolutely wrong and a war crime.

Repeal the 2001 tax cuts.

Save the planet for crissakes! No more tax breaks for oil companies, no off-shore tax havens. Regulate the shit out of the polluters.

Oh and to touch on your point about Hillary this is what I wrote about her yesterday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3195323&mesg_id=3195673

"You seem to imply that Senators should vote for their political ambitions rather than what is right based on their principles and the available information. I may be a naive idealist but I can't surrender to that level of cynicism. I would give up all hope. I have no pity if Senator Clinton's vote haunts her. Millions were in the street at the time screaming the truth, Hans Blix, Scott Ritter, and many more were saying exactly what was happening. The totalitarian bent of this administration was clear and they voted to give them complete power to invade under the politicalprotection of hope of diplomacy which everyone knew would not happen. Kerry did it too and it broke my heart.

Where was Hillary when Bush kicked the weapons inspectors out in order to invade? Where was all of the complaining about the lack of diplomacy? I don't recall anything in opposition at all. She calculated based on what she thought she needed to do in order to run for president in 2008. She ignored or did not seek what was apparently true because it was too personally risky for her ambitions. And still her alleged apologies still exist in the false world that she voted based on what info was available to her at the time. That insults our intelligence and takes the anti-war base for granted. Obviously the people who knew it was wrong before it happened BASED ON AVAILABLE FACTS cannot accept this answer. Just another calculation.

If she's the democratic nominee I shall vote for her. But I think as a party, as a country we need an actual leader, someone who acts and speaks from informed principles and lets the pieces fall where they may. We are in crisis and business as usual without ever acknowledging the serious jeopardy our country has been in for the past 6 years is not enough to fix things"

Still feel lonely? :hug: :hi:

[Cascadian]

96. I feel better thank you! n/t

[Cascadian]

97. Once again to all lefties and anti-war people A BIG THANKS!

And a call to arms!

We have to start hitting back on these forums. Be not afraid to post your feelings and opinions. And if these Hillaryistas attack us then hit them right back! This is what they want and we should not be afraid. This goes for those who support other candidates who have been hit back the Hillary attacks. We must back each other and pick each other up when we get struck down.


And to those Hillaryistas....BRING IT!



John

[Tellurian]

130. What in the world are you talking about?

It was you that was rude in the Hillary threads.. And for another, you have alot of nerve trying to incite aggressive behavior for Hillary supporters. She is a potential nominee for the presidency and it she gets the nomination your tone and mission will have to change. We get along just fine with almost all of the posters here from every camp. It wasn't until you arrived on the scene with all your ill mannered aggressiveness that things got overheated...

[garybeck]

99. Reporting for duty. Please, no Hillary DLC. Please. n/t

[treestar]

100. Here!

:hi:

[marmar]

106. Moonbat lefty has your back here....

:grouphug:

[Jacobin]

108. checking in

Pass the popcorn.

[bamacrat]

109. Anit-war, pro-pot lefty here. and damn happy

[elizm]

110. I'm here...in SC...

Anti-war all the way....which is why I am supporting Obama.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

113. Me!

I'm a Kucinich supporter, I think most wars are unnecessary, not to mention immoral, and I think that the corporations need to reined in before they ruin this country and indeed, the whole planet.

[GreenPartyVoter]

115. Here!

[Carolina]

116. anti-war and

anti-Hillary

[we can do it]

117. Another Kucinich Supporter Checking In

[Sapere aude]

118. I don't support the war, never have and am not anti Hillary.

Why do we have to slam a candidate? Why not talk up your candidate instead?

[AnOhioan]

119. They can try all they want...but my support for DK is firm

Even firmer than before with all the whining about how DK is washed up, out of touch, etc. I will take DK anyday over the corporate Dems who are busy talking to focus groups and triangulating out the ass.

[tbyg52]

121. A little late, but here I am. nt

[silverweb]

123. Here!

:grouphug:

[JeffR]

124. Very late, but reporting for duty

And Dennis will be getting my primary vote. Again.

[GreenInNC]

125. guilty as charged

[Flabbergasted]

126. Check

[TheBaldyMan]

127. durn forn infill traitor here

for all the freeper lurkers - yes I am a 'furriner' and live in a country with gay marriage, heavy gun control and socialized medicine.

P.S. I think Kuchinich is the dog's bollocks.

[mnhtnbb]

128. Not alone. Here I am!

[KansDem]

129. Include me in!

Would like to see Gore run again, but will understand if he doesn't.

[Vidar]

131. Out of the Middle East now!

[underseasurveyor]

133. Yup.........................

That describes me. We be around:smoke:

[BlueCollar]

135. present

but I will not join in on any attacks against Hillary Clinton even though she's not my choice for President...

[ShortnFiery]

136. Present.

:patriot: :hi:

[arendt]

137. One more latte driniking, sushi eating, Volvo driving pinko checking in

You are not alone. They just close their eyes and refuse to see us.

arendt

[Hardrada]

141. SDS/IWW checking in.

An injury to one is an injury to all!

[Debs]

142. Anti war lefty here

Love Kucinich, not a huge Hillary fan but I dont think she is the devil and will have NO problem voting for her over any Republican if she gets the nomination.

[Kickin_Donkey]

143. Yo ...