Which Republican gets the 08 Fundie vote?

[saltpoint]

The fundamentalist Republican primary vote is still up for grabs owing to GOP voters' misgivings about many of their candidates' positions on hot-button social issues.

McCain's assault on Falwell in 2000 is remembered. Romney endorsed gay rights positions in his race against Ted Kennedy. Giuliani is pro-choice. And so forth.

It remains possible that Republican fundamentalists will coalesce around one candidate. Which candidate do you think they'll choose?

[PresidentObama]

1. That snake Brownback.

:grr:

[marmar]

2. Because so many of them are xenophobes as well as batshit crazy....

I'll go with Tom Tancredo.

[saltpoint]

3. I think you're correct on that description, marmar.

Tancredo entered the race officially today, or yesterday -- one or the other. I don't keep up with the Republics very well.

[More Than A Feeling]

4. Whoever the Republican hierarchy says will get it.

Remember, in the Republican party, everything is top-down. Their grassroots have no real influence to speak of, because the rank and file will just go along with what the leadership says. So who is Rush Limbaugh supporting? Who does Karl Rove support? Who do the Coors', the Mellon Scaifes, the Bradleys, and the Olins support? Cause that's who the Christianists support.

[saltpoint]

NPR pointed out this afternoon that ordinarily the GOP has an

heir-apparent lined up, in the batter's box, ready to go.

But not this time. This time it is more of a free-for-all.

I'm inclined to agree, I think. This is a wide-open race and potentially a hell of a mess for the Republics.

[NormanYorkstein]

5. the fundies will vote for anyone against abortion

the only issue that is a "deal breaker" for the fundies is abortion, they will overlook anything else but not that. That's why Ghouliani probably doesn't have a chance. I mean, everything else aside, he's got his own problems obviously.

[saltpoint]

7. Welcome to DU, NormanYorkstein. Nice to have you aboard.

Good point.

The pro-choice Republican faces a very steep climb to the nomination.

No question.

[NormanYorkstein]

20. thank you Crusoe, my opinion about the fundies

I think the fundies might vote against say gay marriage but none of them outside the Fred Phelps really wants to fight about it. Every fundie in America has a LGBT family member or friend, and most of them do not hate them.

But abortion is different, they really will fight over that. So however the political calculations work out, I think that's probably the key to flipping a red state or two. Just my opinion from reading stuff, please don't take it as anything else.

As far as the "professional Fundies" like Falwell or Robertson or Dobson I can only assume they will just say whatever they are paid to say, even if it's abortion. If I was a Ghouliani lobbyist I would promise to send money their way to shut them up, and it would probably work. But I think the low level fundies are serious about it. Again, just my observations, could be way off base.

[saltpoint]

21. You make a lot of sense. I love your distinction between the

anonymous fundie and the "professional fundies" like Dobson and Falwell et al.

Dobson's arranged confession of Newt Gingrich's affair really gives me the creeps.

I agree with you about abortion as a motivating issue for the fundie vote. Many also are homophobic, so it kind of goes with that demographic. Agree with you also that many fundamentalist households harbor a woman or a man who is a lesbian or a gay male. I'm thankful for any young people in that circumstance that they can search the web and find affirmation and acceptance.

The Far Right believes it is near to overturning Roe v. Wade. I'd love to see their hopes dashed by a blue landslide in 2008 and subsequent liberal appointments to the SCOTUS.

[NormanYorkstein]

31. yeah good point about Gingrich

I had forgotten about that - the "professional fundies" pretty much just admitted they are hypocrites didn't they? I mean they didn't even try to hide it. I think that says a lot.

It's true, all of the fundies have a gay cousin or a lesbian aunt, it's just a cultural thing how they deal with it - like Muslims and Hindus. The politicians are the only ones who hate. But abortion is different they are really serious about that.

Anyway I don't think the GOP has a chance unless the Dems really screw up - which is always possible of course. Sometimes I wonder!

[saltpoint]

34. If we can keep up the pressure and work extremely hard, I think

our position going into the November 08 election is very, very good.

It's going to be a wild one for the nomination race in both parties, though.

[Jai4WKC08]

37. I don't agree with you about gay marriage

I think it's at LEAST as important to them as abortion as an issue, and possibly more.

You're right that many fundies have a family member or friend who is gay (probably most of them do, but many are in denial), and they may sympathize and love them and, unlike the Phelps types, not want them killed or driven out of the community.

But I think it makes them even more afraid of the so-called "gay agenda." They think the gay life-style is a choice and they're scared to death their kids will become gay, or that US society will accept gays and they'll have to live among them out in the open, or God forbid, they or their kids might have to go into the Army with gays and get raped in a foxhole or some other stupid fantasy.

The fundies may think abortion is the bigger sin, but they feel far more personally threatened by homosexuality and their reaction to it is more visceral and extreme.

[rosesaylavee]

6. Newt.

He's confessed to Dobson. Fundies like a repentent sinner.

[saltpoint]

9. It's odd that Newt hasn't announced and is still doing fairly well in

various polls.

And the approval from Dobson is creepy.

I guess we can't count Newt out.

I'd like to, though!

[rosesaylavee]

13. He is the prodigal son. They love that sort of crap.

Newt's biding his time in the shadows and will emerge in the fall... I bet.

[saltpoint]

15. I'm wondering if Dobson can rally the nutbags around a Gingrich

candidacy. Maybe. But this is a multiple-divorced smarty-pants guy. Is he down home enough for those regressive yahoos out there in fundie land?

[rosesaylavee]

17. Didn't they love it

that * said he had "quit" drinking and "found" Jesus? All fundies need to hear is that Newt is sorry. I bet it doesn't matter now if he marries a few more times. He's a sinner who has confessed and now is a lovable fundie guy. What a simple life they lead.

I hope I am wrong.

[saltpoint]

18. True -- they really do love a confessed sinner. Do you believe the

Dobson-arranged confession will be enough?

It's hard to think like a fundie Republican, but if we were one, would we gravitate toward Newt or Brownback or one of the others?

It's going to get interesting.

[rosesaylavee]

19. Who ever can grovel better will get the nod.

Ewwww. :)

[saltpoint]

22. LOL! That IS a kind of nauseating visual image, isn't it.

[rosesaylavee]

33. How's this for timely - Did you hear Newt's radio essay

this morning about the pres candidates are in it too early because they are just paying consultant fees and not making campaign inroads this early on?

I guess as he is not a candidate and he was just talking about the process, they accepted his essay. He is a snake.

[saltpoint]

35. He certainly is a snake. I'm not sure if he's run any private polling yet

but I can't imagine polling will show him with broad support among likely GOP primary voters.

Maybe. But I'm not seeing it right now.

[ripple]

8. Brownback, hands down n/t

[saltpoint]

10. Hi, ripple. If Sam Brownback can get the fundies to coalesce

behind him I think he has a real crack at the nomination. Especially if the rest of the vote is split in four or five different ways.

[ripple]

32. Yep, I wouldn't underestimate his chances

I don't think the true fundies have really united behind a candidate, yet. The evangelical right isn't going to get too excited about anyone else- except perhaps to unite against Romney if it looks like he could get the nod. That would be an interesting showdown, would it not?

In any case, I think Brownback will come out looking like the "authentic" candidate for the Christian right.

[saltpoint]

47. What a strange thing that would be -- to see the hyper-Protestant fundies

rallying behind a Mormon for president.

[napi21]

11. I have no idea, and I don't care! I find it VERY entertaining that

no one candidate seems to be able to please them all! Iknow the Dems have been doing this for years, and sometimes the final choice isn't....terrific, but it's sooo much fun watching the Pubsinfighting! I almost don't care who the final choice is. We will fight them and win!

[saltpoint]

12. Hi, napi21. Yes -- I think you're right -- we're going to kick them

high and low, no matter which of their bunch gets nominated.

I like our line-up of possibilities way better than theirs, but our side gets stronger especially when the fundie base is in an uproar over so many Rethugs.

I just love it.

[On the Road]

14. Giuliani Seems to Have That Reagan Teflon

and will get lots of fundamentalist votes regardless of whether his life embodies their principles or not.

[saltpoint]

16. That Teflon is shining on him right now, yes. I wonder if he can keep

it or not. There was some talk that he might even skip Iowa. If he competes in Iowa and doesn't win, he risks losing momentum for New Hampshire and beyond.

Right now he's still "America's mayor," the glowing champion in a post-9-11 world. I want to see how he looks after a couple weeks slopping through those pig farms in western Iowa.

http://www.iowapork.org/newsroom/changing_industry.html

[napi21]

23. Well, little new wifie got him some negative points with the animal

lover crowd! NOBODY likes to hear somebody pushing some medical devise viahaving to kill puppies!

I admit to being a real dog lover,but what she did just makes me dislike her more. I already know Rotten Rudy isa nasty creature and should never get anyone's vote!

[saltpoint]

25. Yep. I have to have a dog around. I grew up with them and like them

still. Judy Giuliani just doesn't quite inspire me as a potential First Lady.

I don't know how widespread news of her previous job is, or how the mainstream media will cover it -- if they cover it much at all -- but bloggers pay attention to these things. I think Rudy has his work cut out for him.

[napi21]

27. I HEARD that info on CNN & MSNBC! I don't know how much traction that

story will get, but it's already IN the MSM!

I was sooo happy my DIL was here tonight when that story aired. Her Dad was an employee of Eastern AL and for whatever reason,he still blames Clinton for his job loss! It's been a tough battle, but I think I've convinced her to THINK for herself and listen to reality!

[saltpoint]

29. I go many days in a row sometimes without an MSM hit, so I was

behind on this story about Judy Giuliani. I am happy to know that's where you heard it, and I hope word gets around. Even if she were an angel, I still can't stand her husband.

I like your strategy with your DIL -- seems to me that's the best possible way to keep an open mind.

[TwilightGardener]

24. Huckabee was a Southern Baptist minister--why don't they lurve him?

[saltpoint]

26. Good question. He's not pulling in the endorsements or the cash.

He's kind of stuck on the tarmac. No take-off in sight.

With those creds, you'd think he'd be able to whip up some passion among the nutbags. But none so far.

[treelogger]

28. Brownback is mentioned often

To be honest, I don't know any fundies. I live in the SF bay area, work in high-tech, so I chat with very few republicans (who are mostly centrists), very few religious people, and absolutely no fundamentalists. And I like it that way.

BUT: I'm also a gun owner and shooter, and I frequent quite a few gun forums, which are for the most part (with rare exceptions) just bristling with ultra-right-wing people (angry white men, knuckle draggers, call them whatever you want). They go on my nerves, but that's one of the things you have to endure if you want to discuss technical and legislative aspects of guns. And on those forums, I see Brownback's name mentioned often, as the consensus candidate of the neanderthal-type posters.

P.S. Off-topic remark: I grew up in Germany, in a medium-sized town that's 20 minutes from the very pleasant village of Neanderthal. The town does not deserve the negative reputation it gets from being associated with its former inhabitants, of 80,000 years ago. The people there are positively not neanderthal, but quite cro-magnon :)

[saltpoint]

30. treelogger, welcome to DU. Good to have you.

I envy you your place of residence now and would love to see the town of Neanderthal. I understand the point you are making.

When Alexander the Great drove to the Indus Valley his soldiers had had just about enough, and Alexander reluctantly agreed to turn around and return to Babylon, by then the capital of his new empire.

Alexander marched with most of the army across the Gedrosian Desert, while his friend Nearchus went by sea along the coast. In one of the inlet harbors along the Asian coast, Nearchus describes coming across a band of people, long-haired and unkempt, digging through the sand for things to eat. Scholars believe that this may have been a surviving tribe of Neanderthals. This would have been c. 326 b.c.e. It's remarkable.

Brownback. I can see it happening. According to the Washington POST's Chris Cilliza, Brownback has a network of volunteers who are getting more and more focused and determined.

[Jai4WKC08]

36. Remember folks, Brownback is a Catholic

Southern fundies won't vote for a "papist" any more than they would a Mormon or a Jew.

I think if Huckabee can mount a credible campaign, he will be their first choice. But knowing how Repubs like to play rough, I don't think Huckabee will pull it off. He has too many skeletons in his closet, and Repubs are skeptical of Arkansas politicians anyway.

So I voted Fred Thompson. He may not be a fundie, but he's close enough to keep them happy... after all, Dubya is a Methodist, which is one of the most liberal Christian churches -- he's just a pretend fundie so long as it helps him politically. If Bush can win over the televangelists who give the fundies their marching orders, so can Thompson. All it takes is money.

[saltpoint]

38. You're right -- Brownback is a Catholic, but he was not raised in the

Church. He's a Catholic of a new order, so to speak.

And his inner circle of supporters and financiers are both Catholic and fundamentalist Protestant.

He belongs to some sort of prayer group that gathers monthly, I think, and is comprised of both Catholics and Protestants -- but all extremely conservative.

I see your vote and why you cast it. I wonder about Huckabee, too. Something is dragging him down -- way more than I expected.

[Jai4WKC08]

39. His inner circle now won't translate to primary wins

The average voter doesn't absorb that much detail anyway, and so won't learn about ecumenical prayer groups and such. Nor will fundies generally distinguish between new and old order Catholics, especially in the South. They still believe a Catholic will take orders from Rome. Many don't even consider Catholics to be Christians.

Another thing, if it's true -- during Brownback's last Senate campaign, his opponent said he was a member of Opus Dei. Anybody know if that's true? If so, or even if it isn't, it could hurt him. Don't think his Publican competition won't use it if they can.

[saltpoint]

41. True of many voters, yes, but Iowa caucus-goers are an astute bunch.

I think they'd make that distinction with Brownback.

How did Pat Robertson place 2nd there in 88 if not for a well-organized ground game. Money then came in in trickles compared with the numbers I read about in yesterday's news -- in the 20s of millions.

I'm not quarreling with you on the drawbacks of a Brownback candidacy, only suggesting that his appeal -- in a crowded, weak field -- could be greater than it ought to be.

[Jai4WKC08]

49. Well, you may be right of course

But I grew up in GA and I just don't see Brownback appealing to southern fundies. And the South has BY FAR the greatest concentration of fundamentalists.

Iowa is, I'll grant you, a different story. It's much more like Brownback's home state of KS (where I live in now).

[saltpoint]

50. I wonder if ground organization is going to be the maker or breaker

for Brownback.

You know him pretty well if you're in Kansas. He's a frightening guy to me. But he seems very determined to run a winning campaign. It's still early. McCain's official announcement is now set for April 25, but I think he will have to leave the race if he doesn't win in either Iowa or New Hampshire. If he finishes well back of the pack in New Hampshire, he's done for even if he wins in Iowa.

At least that's my take.

How Brownback will navigate the crowded field is anyone's guess. But I love the prospect of all those Republicans trying to slash each other's throats in Des Moines!

[Czolgosz]

42. Fred Thompson fails the fundamentalist litmus test EDITED - POSTED IN WRONG PLACE

[saltpoint]

45. Thompson is going to have his problems doing an end-run around

Dobson. Dobson is a psychotic, of course, but that only makes his hold on the fundie vote all the more obstinate and troubling.

Agree with you on Brownback or Huckabee, and especially on Brownback. I think he is a stange enough fish to get pretty far, especially if he can organize the hell out of those Iowa small towns. He's 8 or 9 months away from finding out how far his ride will go.

[Learn2Swim]

40. I chose Romney

but man, does the whole field of gop'ers just feel like it gets slimier by the day? Why is that?

Oh, wait. Because people like Romney are ENCOURAGED by their party. Pretty scary.

[saltpoint]

43. He IS pretty frightening. He looks to me a lot like one of those wax

dummies in Madam Somebody-Or-Other's Wax Museum.

There's that macabre, creepshow aspect to Romney. I think he'd make even the friendliest dog bark in fright.

[Learn2Swim]

46. You know what

you're exactly right! I never thought of that, but he is definitely of the house of wax.

Yeah, he creeps me too, something fierce.

[saltpoint]

48. Romney's creepy enough that he'd keep Vincent Prince up at night.

[Czolgosz]

44. Fred Thompson fails the fundamentalist litmus test on abortion (besides, he's not running)

Fred Thompson (yes, the elite actor who left us all spellbound with his performance in "Curly Sue") has long been a supporter of first trimester abortion rights and has voiced opposition to a proposed constitutional amendment banning abortion.

The National Review quotes a letter from Thompson to constituents affirming his views on abortion:

when Thompson ran for Senate in 1994, he did so as a supporter of legal abortion, as several press clips from the time pointed out. NR has also obtained a copy of a letter Thompson sent to a constituent in 1997, which notes that Thompson supports various restrictions on abortion but also includes the line, "I believe that government should not interfere with individual convictions and actions in this area."

http://www.nationalreview.com/daily/nr070600.html

When James Dobson, the creepy and influential director of Focus on the Family, reviewed Thompson's record and succinctly concluded, "I don’t think he’s a Christian." When friends of Thompson called Dobson to argue their case, Dobson elaborated, that he "has never known Thompson to be a committed Christian—someone who talks openly about his faith." http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070328/28dobson.htm

Thompson is NOT someone who will unite the Christian Dominionists (look for Brownback or Huckabee to break out with these fundamentalists and surprise the field with a strong finish in Iowa - maybe even as strong as a second place).

[TheBaldyMan]

51. McCain, he's proved he is as divorced from reality as a fundie

expect planted questions on the age of the earth and when life begins.

Seriously, fundies are so credulous it seems they will swallow anything they're told hook, line and sinker.