Clark Drops Out - Kerry Hits the Fan...Coincidence?

[Jack_Dawson]

Why did we hear not one speck of dirt on Senator Kerry while Clark was running, but only NOW, 24 hours after General Clark drops out, we start hearing the Clintonesque accusations? I want to believe the two aren't related but my instincts say different. Anyone?

[jmaier]

1. I'm not a tinfoil type but

the timing does seem odd -- clearly, these stories aren't brand new and would have been just as headline worthy before TN & VA primaries, for instance.

[BootinUp]

42. Sometimes foil is not required

I am having a hard time not looking at this as one hell of a coincidence on the timing.

[codegreen]

2. if Clark thought Kerry would 'implode', why would he drop out?

this story reeks of nonsense.

more smoke and mirrors from the defenders of Chimp.

[59millionmorons]

I agree

It doesnt add up, Clark would of taken most of Kerry's votes if this story is true. Why would Clark drop out.

[Jack_Dawson]

14. Ask Yourself: Would Clark Really Say That?

Of course not. But by mentioning it, it deflects attention away from what it is - an obvious smear by the repukes. Don't fall for the "Hey if Clark said it" routine. Clark is above that shit.

[codegreen]

15. you're right, Clark will likely come out disavowing that statement

within the day

[Jack_Dawson]

18. Of course I'm right

Clark is not a National Enquirer type of person. Anyone who believes for a second he would say something like that needs to have their head examined. BTW, you don't need to be a Rhodes Scholar to know that there ARE no off-the-record conversations with reporters.

[Fleshdancer]

22. Supposedly 3 reporters can verify Clark's statement

I know there's not actual link and so I'm inclined to believe you...it doesn't sound like Clark at all, but I'll be scratching my head if it is true. Doesn't make any sense to drop out of the race right now.

[Jack_Dawson]

25. The same reporters the Plame story was shopped to?

I have a funny feeling no reporter is going to corroborate this pile of crap.

[cosmicdot]

38. they often collaborate, suchnsuch contributed to this fib--> mob mentality

You all get "A" for knowing your Media.

((I taught high school in the 70s.))

xtra credit for:

"you don't need to be a Rhodes Scholar to know that there ARE no off-the-record conversations with reporters."

each of our Senators and Congress critters should that framed and in their bathroom on a wall seen frequently ... those who say something in detriment of another person or party or peer ... they know to use the off-the-record 'gap' to executive any mischief.


I can't imagine working again in corporate amerikkka ... the media branch of this corrupt little system would be even worse. The good ol'boy system at-large doing its damage. 'To Fit the Mold' or risk e excommunication onto the street brings hardship, retribution, and retaliation to the those looking to mobile upward in the food chain.

[OKNancy]

56. I read he said it off the record

So, say Lehane tells Clark some dirt, and Clark mentions it to someone off the record, then Clark can't be faulted. He never used one bit of this in his campaign. It all just doesn't make sense.

[Jack_Dawson]

58. Clark knows there is no "off-the-record" with reporters

He is a Rhodes Scholar, remember?

[formernaderite]

32. I'm smelling the Clintons behind this....

...makes room for a Hillary nomination in 2008. Sorry, but Dean was so badly treated by the media and Kerry with those Osama ads. I hope the democrats voting in the coming primaries take a fresh look at Dean.

[lancdem]

35. What are you talking about???

The Clintons?? How about the GOP?

[OKNancy]

Not the GOP

it's too early to be GOP, unless they think Dems are totally stupid.
Maybe they hope to resurrect Dean....but that is not going to happen with Edwards in the race.

[bushisanidiot]

68. It's OBVIOUS and Typical GOP Mud Slinging

on the one hand they claim the dems are "trolling for trash" on the other hand they come up with some lame pic of jane fonda with kerry in the distant background as "evidence" that kerry was some sort of communist or something.. leaving out of course, that the picture was taken 2 whole years prior to fonda's hanoi visit, then they troll out some "alledged" affair crap from kerry's distant past.

who the hell cares??

president shitferbrains shirked his duty to the country in 1972, was arrested for cocaine possession, was arrested for DUI, drank like a fish until at least his 40th birthday, had an exgirlfriend abort his lovechild, and all the repukes can come up with is that kerry had an "alleged" affair? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[krkaufman]

57. Agreed.

That was the most glaring bit I noticed from the Drudge sludge. If Clark thought Kerry would "implode", why would he drop out? (Of course, I remain hopeful that he's waiting in the wings for the phone to ring. There's still time for him to come to our rescue. :))

As for the effectiveness of the smear, the biggest problem Kerry has is the Clinton effect. People's negative perceptions that affected the 2000 campaign will be superimposed onto Kerry, regardless of the validity of the smear. Sad.

And, yes, the timing of this anti-Kerry upsurge is definitely coincidental with Clark's departure from the race. (I remember seeing the first "anti-Kerry movement" comment on CNN shortly after Matt Bennett announced Clark would be dropping out.)

[qanda]

3. I was thinking the *exact* same thing

I was actually going to post about it yesterday, but today is even more appropriate. I'm almost positive that they were waiting for Clark to drop out before they started in on Kerry.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

49. Of course. There were a few pundits who predicted this....

n/t

[HFishbine]

4. I'm not sure what you are implying

Since Druge atributes the initial story to Clark, are you saying that Clark was sitting on something until he got out of the race? I'm loathe to believe that.

[PAMod]

5. Another question - If Clark knew, why would he drop out?

Allegedly Clark made an off the record comment to reporters about it, but that doesn't make sense.

[PAMod]

8. Sorry, I must be a slow t-y-p-e-r

[DancingBear]

16. We know the man

I don't think Clark would ever smear someone like that. The words don't even sound like ones Wes would use. Whoever said it (or made it up) - it wasn't Wes.

[PAMod]

24. My thoughts, too.

Doesn't sound like Clark at all.

[Jack_Dawson]

54. Kick

:kick:

[Brotherjohn]

6. The Kerry dirt is most likely a response from the Bush camp...

...to counter or distract from the negative attention they are receiving from the AWOL issue, which has also progressively exploded over the last 2-3 days.

[ewagner]

7. Wait and see

the story is developing (or not).

Once we have more information, then we can make a more precise, and informed judgement.

[meegbear]

11. Exactly ...

nothing indicts like denial, but let's se how this plays out.

[IndianaGreen]

9. We are facing 9 months of the dirtiest campaign since the 19th century

and the election is already predicted to be a rerun of 2000, and Scalia is still in the Supreme Court.

I don't want to go through that crap again!

[cosmicdot]

51. amen. hallelujah

but, I fear we will go where 2000 was just a trial run

2004's Marketing Autumn Rollout :shrug:

the October Surprise for Jimmy Carter might look like a junior high stunt

Will going to a 'live' campaign rally come to going to a closed circuit video-conferencing event?

[BL_Zebub]

10. Since the media was basically ignoring Clark, I don't see the connection.

Maybe you could elaborate on what your instincts are telling you, Jack?

[elixir]

12. The idea is that the repubs waited for clark to drop out before attacking

kerry. The fear was that if they took Kerry out of the running clark would stay in and fight on either getting the nomination or weakening Edwards (which is who the repubs really want).

[Tom Rinaldo]

33. Yes. My thoughts too. n/t

[BootinUp]

43. I tend to agree - but we're going to be called

The Clark Foil Hatters Club :)

its hard enough to get people to acknowledge the media ignored Clark.

[OKNancy]

61. No they want Dean

No matter some of the Edwards people here who have turned off DUers, Edwards is a strong candidate. I think the GOP wants Dean.

Here are the possibles:

1. Drudge got it and doesn't care if it is too early to help the GOP
2. The GOP did it, but mis-calculated the timing
3. Lehane did it for revenge
4. Dean ( or another Dem) did it to hurt Kerry. They waited until Clark was out.

It doesn't make sense that the GOP did it this early. I hate to say it, but option 3 or 4 is most likely.

[Cheswick2.0]

71. Nope they still want Kerry

This story wasn't supposed to break now. That is why everyone was sitting on it. However drudge being drudge he couldn't resist. Plus Clark, if he in fact has been talking about this, probably wanted to get it out now before it killed the democrats in the General election.

[Nicholas_J]

72. The story is not new:

Lehane was spreading it in 2000 when Kerry was being considered for the shortlist VP.
ANd he has been spreading it ever since he started working for Clark, but no one but Drudge picked it up, and only after Clark made a statement off the record in front of a dozen reporters.

[funky_bug]

36. EXACTLY my thoughts

They had to let Kerry's MO run Clark out. They knew they had dirt on Kerry, and knew how to take him down. Clark, obviously, was another story. The couldn't have held up against him, so they had to wait it out.

[DancingBear]

13. Welcome to the show, boys and girls

Clark was the fallback to Kerry - with him now gone the attacks can start. Edwards and Dean are of no help here. If Kerry can wrap it up quick and get Clark on as a VP - they both together will stop the attacks. Otherwise, no.

For the sake of defeating Bush in November, I hope Kerry puts Dean and Edwards away quickly.

This was NO coincidence.

[Jack_Dawson]

37. Agreed <eom>

[democratreformed]

65. I felt it coming from a mile away

Unfortunately, I still had hope. I am beginning to lose that more and more every day.

[banana republican]

17. Get a Life.

of course it's AWOL & company.

He is the only one who really stands to gains from it.

[krkaufman]

60. Ummm... Edwards, Dean, Kucinich & Sharpton...

... would all benefit from a Kerry implosion. The only people not helped are Kerry, Clark, the other candidates already out, and the American people.

[OKNancy]

64. I know---wake up

it's hard to believe, but the people who benefit are still in the race. It is just too early to be GOP.

[Adelante]

19. Jack? Do you have a link?

I don't know what anybody's talking about. Thanks.

[Jack_Dawson]

20. www.drudgereport.com

[Adelante]

34. Thanks

I find it hard to believe Wes Clark said something like this. We have to wait for confirmation from a reputable source.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Hell no,

it's not a coincidence! Can Clark REENTER the race? Has that ever happened? Could he get back in after they release all their Kerry garbage? :shrug: I can hope, right?

[jmoss]

23. An Edwards staffer told me.......

......that the Clark camp purposely leaked JRE's foram announcement, which was supposed to happen at the old Mill where his father worked, chock full of media & local front-page hype. Instead he was confronted the day before on his driveway in Raleigh, wearing cackis & a polo, with his two youngset children clinging to his leg. That was another senseless swipe at a candidate.

So maybe this leak is possible. But I don't know about my story, or yours!! Politics begets paranoia, I'm realizing.

[Jack_Dawson]

28. Oh PLEASE!!!

That's a real knee-slapper. C'mon now, that's even too tinfoil for tinfoil hatters.

[cosmicdot]

53. sounds like either picture of Edwards would have been positive

supporting workers; good community values person

how would Edwards be hurt seen at home in khakis and a casual shirt?

[krkaufman]

63. "foram announcement"?

What's a foram?

[AP]

26. Just as likely Clark knew the story, knew he couldn't use it as candidate,

only felt comfortable after he dropped out, knew it was going to come out eventually, and, as a patriot, thought he'd get it out now, rather than after March 2, when it might be too late.

[elperromagico]

62. Agreed. As LBJ used to say,

"better to have him in the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in." Perhaps if we bring out the dirt ourselves and deal with it early on, we'll take away a great deal of the GOP ammo.

[Cuban_Liberal]

27. The same thought had occurred to me, frankly.

Oddly coincidental, if nothing else.

[GRClarkesq]

29. While the Repubs will think this is a gift

I am not sure they like the timing. Wait until Kerry is the nominee and then sling the mud.

[Jack_Dawson]

31. You forget: They still want DEAN!

They are ecstatic over the timing. Who wants their AWOL candidate to go up against a war hero? Good luck.

[MidwestMomma]

47. It's scary how things are following the Repug strategy reported

at Moderate Independent. Let's see, how did that go? Knock Dean down early so he wouldn't build up too much support, then build up Kerry to take out Clark, then once Clark was out, take out Kerry and start building up Dean again so that he is the nominee but weakened. Can't remember Edward's place in all this but I think he will be the victim of building up Dean.

I'm feelin' the need for a big ole tinfoil hat right now. Scary......

[HoosierClarkie]

59. I feel you.

I have been devasted for the past two days and I thought it was because of Clark dropping out. Now that I am getting a better handle on my emotions, I think I am relieved for Clark and scared to DEATH that the Moderate Independent could be right.

I will not stop fighting though.

[democratreformed]

66. I'm feeling it too... n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

69. they would much rather run against kerry

he has no issues he can run on. He voted for everything they wanted the last three years.

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[WI_DEM]

39. but if the dirt does hit the fan

Clark is positioned to get back in--he is on ballot in all the states.

p.s.
according to Drudge Clark knew this was coming down. Drudge says that off the record Clark told reporters that "Kerry will implode" over a intern affair.

[ShaneGR]

40. The problem for Clark wasn't Kerry, it was Edwards

The #2 needed to be decided in Vir. and Ten., it was.

[krkaufman]

67. Wrong.

Edwards was only Clark's competition for getting to a one-on-one race with Kerry. (With Dean, Kucinich & Sharpton's continued candidacy's also as thorns.)

Ask yourself, if Kerry hadn't been in the race, whom would people have voted for? Kerry's military experience is one of the main reason's people view him as "electable", and Clark is the only other candidate with that experience. Clark would have been the obvious beneficiary, and would likely have been the favorite.

If Edwards weren't in the race, Kerry and Clark would still be battling over the national security perception, with Kerry having the advantages of an established political machine. However, the race would have migrated to a one-on-one comparison, where Clark would have an advantage.

Edwards won't be the nominee unless Clark & Kerry both bow out. Edwards is getting a small percentage of the vote, but he lacks the necessary experience -- national security, executive, foreign policy, domestic, you name it. He's a great motivational speaker, but that's about it.

As for

[Rowsdower]

41. didn't Dean warn about hitting back?

Dean has been angry, rightfully so, about the tactics used against him over the last few months. I could have sworn I heard him say he was going to start dishing it back. Anyone wonder if Dean's people leaked this stuff?

[GumboYaYa]

44. Does the name Chris Lehane ring any bells?

[cosmicdot]

46. Chris Lehane is history

according to this from here http://www.dailykos.net/archives/004185.html

Chris Lehane is history
You knew it was coming.

Kerry communications director Chris Lehane has resigned from the Kerry campaign.

John Kerry's communications director has resigned over differences in the direction of the Democrat's presidential campaign.

Chris Lehane's departure comes amid speculation of a wider shake-up in the Kerry campaign, which has been torn by internal fights and a lack of public support from the candidate.

Can campaign manager Jim Jordan be far behind?

The official line is that Lehane wanted Kerry to move more aggressively against Dean. True or not, Lehane is an asshole. Many have documented his blatantly unfair attacks on Bradley as Gore's campaign mouthpiece in 2000, such as this piece:

Lehane more than exemplifies spin-he lives it, he celebrates it, he worships it. At Gore events, Lehane relentlessly bends, manipulates, dodges or obliterates the truth <...>

more

[GumboYaYa]

55. That's way old news.

Lehane moved over to the Clark campaign after being fired by Kerry. My point was that after Clark withdrew, Lehane is free to spread his shit around. Lehane is a notorious slime ball.

[Tom Rinaldo]

48. Either this story has" legs" or it doesn't.

Drudge and sorts are capable of "denting" Kerry by throwing out rumors and accusations, but not sinking him on this. If that is all it is, it should be the least of Kerry's worries, ranking far below gay marriages in MA and prior votes on defense etc. in the pecking order of where they will come at him.

If the Washington Post starts running lead stories with the name of a specific woman Kerry was allegedly involved in, than we are heading into Clinton territory.

In either case anything Chris Lehame did or didn't do is inconsequential. This is either a right wing fabrication, or some dirt they have been waiting to spring on Kerry. If the latter is true, ultimately the timing is better sooner rather than later, so we can get it out there and deal with it and move on, or fail to deal with it and move on to another candidate.

[cosmicdot]

45. To Tell the Truth...how difficult can that be for some fellow-citizens

the unseen intrigue invites rumor ... which, when I worked for corporate amerikkka, turned out to be true or I was on a good grapevine ... we all know 'Et tu, Brute', Machiavelli, Henry Kissinger, Karl Rove and other names, places, and plays where we can see how the powerful operate ...

my range of emotions run the gamut:

from

- is there a difference between Clinton and GOP politics?
vs.
- the Clintons would never risk integrity - bridge burning is not good


The media is selling the version of the fray they want to abuse. We lose out because we do not progress or advance under that failed Public Trust.

We'll know when we get there .... I just hope we make the correct decisions - the next 4 years will be telling (keep a bag packed or plant a garden) integrity is Dennis Kucinich, and the Media obviously doesn't care for 'good' ... and, there are so many stories which could be built by reporters on Dennis' ideas -- the Media could be helping us start creating to make them a reality ... people love to contribute to a common good ... no, it's Tabloid Journalism and Politics and it's destroying us with its lack of values, integrity or decency ... the same behavior it caters to.

4th estate needs another meeting on the tennis courts

[Donkey007]

50. #2 is only a number exactly - not a name to me

I can't believe that we are even having this conversation. I will always respect Clark!

[cosmicdot]

52. you lost me

[Cheswick2.0]

70. I'm not seeing a connection

what exactly is it you think is going on?

[Jack_Dawson]

73. I'm just saying...

I think the pukes feared Clark more than Kerry. So perhaps they let Kerry's "mo" progress unchecked. Now that Clark's out of the race, they can go back to doing what they do best

[OutlawCorporatePolls]

74. the real question is..

..why only when a candidate drops out and supports kerry, does he get any press? lol.