Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Clark supporters, what to do now

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
douginmarshall Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 10:28 AM
Original message
Clark supporters, what to do now
I believe that the support for General Clark has the ability to change this nation. I am not talking of a new party. I am a Democrat and will continue to support Democrats at all levels. There was an amazing energy and passion within the Clark campaign that needs to continue. I have taken the liberty of making some changes to the Clark Pledge to making it Clark's Army Pledge.

What do you think. I believe this should be the vision of all Democrats.

:-) :think:



Clark’s Army Pledge

A grassroots organization dedicated to the vision for America of General Wesley Clark


We believe in the promise of America as a place of opportunity and inclusion for every man, woman and child.

We appreciate the great opportunities our citizenship bestows and accept the responsibilities it demands. We realize that shared sacrifice and service to country are fundamental to the American experience.

We accept America's role as an enduring symbol of hope and progress for the human spirit throughout the world. We welcome the responsibilities this role demands.

We recognize that a successful democracy requires discussion, disagreement and dissent, and that leaders must be held accountable for their actions and decisions.

We cannot accept despair, neglect or discrimination in our country's schools, workplaces, hospitals and public services. We will not tolerate corruption and exploitation by our leaders, corporations, or special interests.

We trust and support a government of, by and for the people. We believe in the role of the American government as an uplifting force, a voice for the oppressed and an arbiter of justice.

We recognize the untapped potential of the American people and the awesome power of our shared heritage and treasure. We believe our potential is not being recognized.
We believe our nation's best days are ahead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
DakotaDemocrat Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Taking his vision locally...
Working on my local elections (Stephanie Herseth and Tom Daschle)!

Holding my state legislature accountable.

Volunteering. Anywhere. When you can do good - you should.



This is his legacy, folks, it is up to us, at least for now, to show a Higher Standard of Leadership.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Back the Dean Campaign.
The passion and mission are parallel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
douginmarshall Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. No thank you I want to win in Nov. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Dean is NOT equal to Clark, however. No one has the integrity that
Clark has. He also is a kind person who truely cares about others.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LuLu550 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. honor him by voting for him in your primary
I am voting for him on March 2...he is still on the NY state ballot.
I will then put my energy toward voter registration and paper verification of computer voting machines.
Then I'll work for the Dem candidate after the convention.

That's my plan and I'm sticking to it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
celticartemis Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Me too!
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is great
I feel much better to see Clark's Army stickin together. I will take that pledge, and vote for the General on March 2

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. A great camaign guys. Clark is a great leader. Hope unity will happen soon

and all of us who what to take our country back can be meeting and
working together.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I believe in unity but not till
after the convention. Clark did something important for his country and the 2004 election. He had an impact. We need to preserve that until the convention. And see where it goes from there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donating Member ( posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
10. vote for the person polling second in your state
Edited on Thu Feb-12-04 11:15 AM by 56kid
so that the convention has some discussion

or alternatively stick with your candidate and vote for Clark

just a thought
 Add to my Journal Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. I will
vote for Clark in my primary (IL) and then actively jump on board and support the nominee -- canvas, volunteer, etc.

I also plan on donating to more to Moveon.org and looking at how I might be able to help in some key Senate races. Finally, since I am independently under-employed and location doesn't much matter, I'm looking to relocate to one of the RED states by late summer. I'd like to take the fight, in my small way, directly at the enemy on their home turf! :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
12. Two important additions:
"We believe poverty is a blight on our nations honor. We believe that a great people can take care of it's own, and still reach beyond our borders to help others in need. Those who are blessed with more have a moral obligation to lift up those who struggle with less."

ALSo, if we are true to Wes Clark's vision, we must also embrace the mission of our nation's continuing security. It is a key pillar to Clark's personal mission, and part of what allows him to reach out to a broader cross section of Americans than Progressives usually reach. I always hesitate at this one, because I have so mistrusted Republican Presidents from our past. Nonetheless, the way Clark expresses it, I understand and accept that mission. I feel less sure of my ability to express it, but I know that Clark can, here is my try:

"We understand that this world is an uncertain place, and that freedom and justice are always worth defending. We will stay ever vigilant to Protect America; it's transcendent values, it's democratic institutions, and it's diverse people, from any unwarranted attack. We also however realize, that use of force can only be justified if it is done as an absolutely last resort, and that our ultimate security is dependent on the positive relations we foster with people across the globe."

Yes I want to build on what we have started with Wes Clark's leadership. I will work inside the Democratic Party. I will also work outside of the Democratic Party but not against it. I will work to defeat George Bush, and I will work to improve our nation through an ever widening commitment to the ideals expressed above.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lurk_no_more Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
13. For me
Edited on Thu Feb-12-04 11:36 AM by lurk_no_more
I am going to carry on in the Clark tradition, I am volunteering my time and services to local organizations and am helping out in local elections.

Kerry is my second choice, but I cannot get behind him just yet, I didn't think Clark's leaving would have effected me the way it did, right now I want to say to hell with it all but that will pass and getting bush out IS important.

My wife and I donated the max to Clark and I don't know if I can do it again now that he's gone, he was the best we had and America has lost what I believe is our only chance to get back to all we could be.

I'm voting Clark in the Primary even if it's a write in, I owe him that.

Thanks all Clark supporters for all you've done to help General Clark and to make my time here worth while.

Time to chill and gather my thoughts.





And then there were none!
” JAFO”

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Clark has my vote March 2nd in New York
I want him to get enough votes so that some people sit up and notice how well he did for a candidate who withdrew. It would help Clark in his on going mission for the Party and the Nation. But mostly I feel I owe him that loyalty, and I owe myself this opportunity to vote for the one man who I absolutely believe would make a Great President.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
14. Voting Wes in the primary - Dem Nom in November
I'm not making any moves just now. I need a rest, for one thing. I also want to give Wes a little time to let us know what he wants from us. Once I hear his plans outlined by him, I'll buckle down, fall in, get back to work, and so forth. All I know so far is he will be campaigning for the Dems and will be backing the nominee. I'm interested in where he will go with his policies. That's the part I'm holding out for.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
16. Sincere question
And I really don't mean to be disrespectful, but as I read that, most of it just as easily could be written by anyone churning out standard political rhetoric that sounds good but doesn't actually mean much. There's no "there" there. A lot of wonderful, or glib, catch phrases (and fairly standard ones at that) with no real substance.

We believe in the promise of America as a place of opportunity and inclusion for every man, woman and child.


Who doesn't? Or, who would admit to not believing that? Standard political rhetoric.

We appreciate the great opportunities our citizenship bestows and accept the responsibilities it demands. We realize that shared sacrifice and service to country are fundamental to the American experience.

And?? Does that mean all of us should serve in the military? Or some other forced conscription? What kind of "sacrifice"? What kind of "service"? Did Clark have a forced conscription plan like Kerry's plan for high schoolers? IOW, what does all this MEAN?

We accept America's role as an enduring symbol of hope and progress for the human spirit throughout the world. We welcome the responsibilities this role demands.

Responsibilities such as? PNAC might say much the same thing, and actually has.

We recognize that a successful democracy requires discussion, disagreement and dissent, and that leaders must be held accountable for their actions and decisions.

Again -- who would disagree openly with this? How is what Clark believes different from anyone else's? This is, like, the description of what a democracy is. Ours isn't working very well at the moment, we can all agree, but just reiterating the obvious standards (which still do apply, even if poorly) isn't all that helpful or enlightening IMO.

We cannot accept despair, neglect or discrimination in our country's schools, workplaces, hospitals and public services. We will not tolerate corruption and exploitation by our leaders, corporations, or special interests.

That's a little better. A little more concrete. I can visualize "despair, neglect and discrimination" -- along with not accpeting them. Also "corruption and exploitation" by powerful forces.

We trust and support a government of, by and for the people. We believe in the role of the American government as an uplifting force, a voice for the oppressed and an arbiter of justice.

Mmm, back to platitudes. Sounds great, but not very concrete.

We recognize the untapped potential of the American people and the awesome power of our shared heritage and treasure. We believe our potential is not being recognized.

Again, platitudes.

So, obviously, all this leaves me quite cold. What does any of it MEAN? Why do you (or anyone) find it inspiring? It's just political rhetoric, AFAIC.

I'm genuinely asking -- I just don't see anything there to get excited about.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
douginmarshall Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. You don't get it and never will
That's OK we each have our own vision of America and what we want it to be. This is not meant to be policy. It is the vision that we strive to work toward. This is what guides us in being Democrats. What has been the vision of the Democratic Party. There was a day when the Democratic Party was driven by principle, do we remember RFK, Phil Hart, Patrick Moynahan, Barbra Jordan, Eugene McCarthy, Ed Musky, HHH, MLK, and all the others that I am not remembering.

As a kid and then a young man I always knew that as a Democrat I stood for what was right. That serving your country, not just military, was honorable. We lost that somewhere along the line and I want it back.

You say, "So, obviously, all this leaves me quite cold. What does any of it MEAN? Why do you (or anyone) find it inspiring? It's just political rhetoric"

This tells me that you have not understood Clark and his supporters. You need to understand that this was from the heart and not for political gain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Here is my sincere reply
All of the greatest unifying cries and ultimately the deepest causes can be purely stated in a handful of words, and actually that is the only way in which they ever are purely spoken, because beyond those powerful phrases the writer starts to inject personal bias and toning and choice of words that tend to resonate differently for different people.

John Lennon said "All you need is Love", and in a way that sums it up too. "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" has a real ring to it also.

OK, I do understand your point. Wesley Clark is an intellectual and by most accounts, a complex man. Still I have no doubt that the simple phrase: "Honor, Duty, Country" means a great deal to him personally, and that it has provided him with a basic compass heading he has consulted throughout his life.

There is a reason why most successful public leaders, and I guess I can include preachers here too for the hell of it (pun intended), are great orators. Words have the power to inspire, and to uplift. They also have the power to brainwash, and to deceive, granted. I am convinced that one of the great political American battles of the early 21st century will revolve around words, what it truly means to be an American. I think Republicans won that battle in the late 20th Century.


"We believe in the promise of America as a place of opportunity and inclusion for every man, woman and child."

The key word there is inclusion. That is not part of Republican rhetoric, it changes the subtext of the rest of the statement which is otherwise boiler plate. Now you are right, almost all Democratic politicians would acknowledge that statement, in passing. The way I see it though, we are taking a pledge to embody that concept (inclusion) in all of our political and social stances, so that those of us who sign on to this pledge bear witness through our ongoing actions to the central importance of that concept. It becomes the benchmark, the litmus test, to whether or not we stand for equality in this great land of opportunity. I accept that my political work should be measured by that benchmark.


"We appreciate the great opportunities our citizenship bestows and accept the responsibilities it demands. We realize that shared sacrifice and service to country are fundamental to the American experience."

At the onset of his campaign, Clark initiated a call for voluntary community service, and he asked his supporters to take up responsibility for acting to improve people's lives on a local scale through coordinated activity. Clark does not believe in conscription. He strongly defends a voluntary military and is opposed to the resumption of the draft. It is Clark's call for giving something back to your country and your community, recognizing that compassion and cooperation strengthens us as a people and as a nation, and that the elevation of narrow self interest as the defining measure of progress and success is corrosive to us as a people, and ultimately to our well being.


"We accept America's role as an enduring symbol of hope and progress for the human spirit throughout the world. We welcome the responsibilities this role demands."

You point out that the implications of that pledge can play out in different directions depending on how it is interpreted and implemented, and you are right. Again, this is a case of wresting control of positive imagery words and concepts out of right wing hands. That is our challenge, and we should be judged on that. We will have to further define that meaning through our actions and our beliefs, I do understand where your lack of ease comes from. This is the center of the right/left struggle with symbolism as it pertains to the justification for America's actions in the world. It is essential that we redefine these concepts in America's unconscious mind away from the PNAC script you refer to. Clark in his speeches often specifically referred to the United Nations as essentially an American initiative, reflective of American values, that our current government does not value. With a little research I can point you to other speeches where he details how America's security is dependent on whether or not the world perceives us as a force for greater good or greater evil. An example of what Clark means by this type of language was the massacre in Rwanda. Clark believes we were untrue to our moral obligation, given our capabilities, when we did not act to stop it, whether or not their was oil involved, or Geo political alliances at stake.


"We recognize that a successful democracy requires discussion, disagreement and dissent, and that leaders must be held accountable for their actions and decisions."

All Democrats will say this, though not all Republicans without rushing to include language that undercuts the essence of this statement. Nonetheless, it is a clear line in the sand. Another benchmark that can be referenced anytime any elected official, Democrat or Republican, gets secretive or evasive. Clark holds this standard up as being at the core of our Democracy. That is the point here. Not that most or all Democrats can agree with this, but that adherence to this standard is at the core of the unifying principles of his cause and movement, not something peripheral or elective depending on circumstances.

"We cannot accept despair, neglect or discrimination in our country's schools, workplaces, hospitals and public services. We will not tolerate corruption and exploitation by our leaders, corporations, or special interests."

Since we agree here, 'nuff said. I'll group the next two "platitudes".


"We trust and support a government of, by and for the people. We believe in the role of the American government as an uplifting force, a voice for the oppressed and an arbiter of justice."

"We recognize the untapped potential of the American people and the awesome power of our shared heritage and treasure. We believe our potential is not being recognized."

Yes, platitudes. It hints at a commitment to participatory Democracy, beyond simply voting every couple of years. Perhaps that could be strengthened. It confirms a belief that Government can and should be activist in nature, so long as it adheres to the other stated principles. Now this is standard pap for Liberal Democrats, but the beauty of Clark's movement is that because of the genuine chords of a deep sense of patriotism that it struck for many who have NOT considered themselves Liberal Democrats, some were drawn to Clark who have not fully embraced this concept. I suppose you could see this piece as firming up the conceptual support of moderates and even some conservatives who have been drawn to Clark for an understanding that Government can be a force for Good, not only a necessary evil.

Anyway, the proof is always in the pudding. But if these concepts become identified with the types of people who have been the activist core of Clark's campaign, then the words used themselves will be redefined away from the moths of their Republican kidnappers, AND THAT IS A CRUCIAL STEP IN TAKING BACK AMERICA.

A basis of unity can never be as detailed as specific policy positions, and they can never be as nuanced as a platform, or certainly not as comprehensive as a political thesis. They form a starting point for discussion, not the end point for a movement.











Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Truthfully.... (didn't want to use sincere again) :-)
I will put this simply for you, Clark is like a big boy scout in a lot ways. People in America don't want that generally or haven't for a long time. Its exactly what this country needs. Accountability, Integrity, Leadership. When Clark throws these words out there, it is not like any other politician giving a stump speech. Its not the way it comes across to me.

This pledge is only as meaningful as each of us makes it. If you take it seriously it does mean something. We Clarkies believe that courageous, intelligent, honest to a fault boy scout and we are willing to take a chance on him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
17. I would still vote for Clark in the primary and then support the DEM
nominee in the GE. I'm a Dean supporter and if he drops out before March 2 I'm still voting for him in the primary. It may be the only chance to vote for Dean so I have to make it count.

So sorry to all the Clark supporters. You're a hard-working, dedicated bunch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HoosierClarkie Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. Working hard to keep Mitch Daniels out of Indiana.
Then I will vote for Clark in my primary in May. Go to local meetups everyone. Be a Wes Clark Democrat locally. :) I think he will be back! :bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC