Kerry's ahead now, but this is far from over. Important Caucus Details!

[Zardeenah]

It's been anounced. It's official. Kerry won Washington. Kerry won Maine. Right?

Well, in Washington at least, that was just the first round! Any of the candidates can still win. *ANY* of them!

Here are two, very important points regarding caucuses and the National Convention.

1. Delegates (in WA) are not beholden to vote for the candidate for which they are the delegate. There are three more rounds to go. Here's an example: In Washington, Kerry got 48, Dean 30, Kucinich 8, Edwards 7, Clark 3, and Sharpton 1, with 3% uncommitted. If Dean and Clark drop out, and their delegates throw to Kucinich, Dennis suddenly has 42%! There are other possibilities of course, but it could still go anywhere from here. I'm sure other Caucuses are similar, so Caucus states are still up in the air, almost completely.

2. Everyone should know this! If no candidate comes to the national convention with more than 50%, all delegates at the convention become uncommitted, and candidates all get a chance to plead their case before another vote. This seems like the fairest way to decide, since it ensures that all delegates really get to hear about the platform of all of the contenders.

Now, I think Kerry, while electable, isn't the candidate that can totally cream Bush, since he is beholden to corporate interests, and he has voted for the Iraq War, and he's not a particularly fiery speaker...so I am speaking from that point of view.

I think all of us for other candidates need to do everything possible to attain that brokered convention! We need a candidate that is really in touch with the average American, that offers a clear contrast to Bush, and has a clear plan to implement all of his policy changes. For me, that is Dennis Kucinich. Check out his policies at http://www.kucinich.us and send me a message if you want a CD or DVD with speeches. :)

But no matter who your candidate is, if it's not Kerry, *don't give up*! Remember, all Democrats are electable this year, and we shouldn't compromise in the primary stage! Why pick a mainstream, right leaning Corporate Democrat, when this is our chance to really shake things up in this country!


Susan

[Mass_Liberal]

1. I'm really sorry to say this

but if Kucinich won the nomination, he would lose the GE. I'm really sorry about it, but America is not that liberal yet.


I am that liberal, and it is deplorable to me that the center in this country is so far right, but I think that's the way it is.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. I agree. But Howard Dean is also....

in the same spot. He is too polarizing.

The only way that Dean could win is if we had a 1980
type of situation where everything went to hell (things were
worse back then). Many people would not necessarily agree with
Dean's policy's as they disagreed with Reagan, but they would be
looking for a drastic change in the direction of the country.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HazMat]

14. Things were far worse

Jimmy Carter had the lowest approval rating (in the mid 20s, IIRC) of any president in modern history. He wasn't even popular with Democratic voters. We may dislike Bush, but he is still very popular with Republicans, and his overall approval ratings are around 50%.

[vanityfair]

16. Worse in 1980?

Not from what I've seen.

[shance]

17. Just to clarify. Howard Dean has raised more money than ANY other

Democratic candidate ever.........................

What was that about polarizing?

[truhavoc]

4. I agree, his idea to pull out of Iraq immediately did it for me n/t

[Zardeenah]

6. I've found people misunderstand the Iraq position...

They picture an immediate troop withdrawal, with nothing else, leaving Iraq to sink or swim.

Dennis wants UN troops in to broker the Iraqi constitution and help establish order...He wants us to pay for the infrastructure we damaged. He wants us to pay reparations to the families of the innocent civilians we killed. He won't leave Iraq high and dry, just bring our troops home.

Susan

[truhavoc]

8. That is what I pictured

I pictured a vaccum left in Iraq, leaving it even less secure. I would hope that it would be possible to get the UN involved in the aftermath of *'s failures in diplomacy. Personally that is my only major problem, and I know exactly how the GOP would spin it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. He said as much in the last debate.

Clarified it for me.

[Cuban_Liberal]

11. But DK's plan leaves our troops there, just like everyone else's does.

That's the part he never mentions.

[Zardeenah]

13. It doesn't leave our troops in...We're out in 90 days (+/- a few)

Here is the plan, in detail. Our troops will be in Iraq after Dennis's inauguration for around 90 days...No longer...

"The following is the only detailed plan from any candidate for President that will quickly bring all U.S. troops home from Iraq.

The United States must ask the United Nations to manage the oil assets of Iraq until the Iraqi people are self-governing.

The United Nations must handle all the contracts: No more Halliburton sweetheart deals, No contracts to Bush Administration insiders, No contracts to campaign contributors. All contracts must be awarded under transparent conditions.

The United States must renounce any plans to privatize Iraq. It is illegal under both the Geneva and the Hague Conventions for any nation to invade another nation, seize its assets, and sell those assets. The Iraqi people, and the Iraqi people alone must have the right to determine the future of their country's resources.

The United States must ask the United Nations to handle the transition to Iraqi self-governance. The U.N. must be asked to help the Iraqi people develop a Constitution. The U.N. must assist in developing free and fair elections.

The United States must agree to pay for what we blew up.

The United States must pay reparations to the families of innocent Iraqi civilian noncombatants killed and injured in the conflict.

The United States must contribute financially to the U.N. peacekeeping mission.

The United Nations, through its member nations, will commit 130,000 peacekeepers to Iraq on a temporary basis until the Iraqi people can maintain their own security.

U.N. troops will rotate into Iraq, and all U.S. troops will come home.

The United States will abandon policies of "preemption" and unilateralism and commit to strengthening the U.N.
"I will work tirelessly to take America in a new direction, to gain approval of this plan at the United Nations, and to put it into action, bring all U.S. troops home in 90 days. Only if the United States takes a new direction will we be able to persuade the U.N. community to participate. Such a new direction is reflected in this 10-point plan." -- Dennis Kucinich

People ask Dennis all the time how he will get UN troops in when they have refused thus far...They have refused because Bush continues his arrogant attitude towards the UN and its member nations, and his insistence on privatizing Iraqi assets and controlling the resulting gov't. Dennis will go to the UN and say "America was wrong...We're sorry we acted on such bad intelligence. We want only the best for the Iraqi people, and we want the international community to supervise so that they can determine the distribution of their own resources and the constitution of their own government without undue pressure from the US." (or something like that, that's not a direct quote). I sincerely believe that the UN will contribute as many troops as Dennis mentions under those circumstances.

Susan

[Zardeenah]

5. I think the country *is* that liberal...

Polls show majorities support liberal policies, from healthcare to trade, from election reform to civil liberties. I have even seen polls showing a majority of Americans favored gay marriage (although that was before the media propaganda machine really got to work).

People just don't have leftward choice. Dennis won in his *heavily* Republican district with 70% of the vote -- all while spending a fraction of the money on his campaign. Kerry outspent his opponent by a huge margin, but just squeaked by in MA.

I wouldn't have considered myself left or liberal, but when I heard Dennis speak, I was conviced. He will be the president of the people, of the environment, of peace. Dennis is so honest and real -- sure, he doesn't come off well in 30 second snippets, but when he gets a chance to speak, everyone in earshot really listens.

Susan

[beyurslf]

3. If we want the person who is most in line with the average

American, first we need someone who doesn't vote.

But seriously, DK is way to the left of "most" Americans. We here may find ourselves in his camp but we hardly representive of everyone. That's like saying the freeper site is representitive of all of America.

A brokered convention is a good way to lose in Nov. Why don't we just forfeit and tell Bush he can step down when he is tired.

[helleborient]

7. Yep, gotta love the media trumpeting overwhelming victories that are less

Than 50%

[nofurylike]

12. thank you for that important info, Zardeenah! n/t

[Mick Knox]

15. Meanwhile Back at a Ranch in Texas...

Karl Rove is frolicking about in a pile of unspent money LOVING and PRAYING that no candidate is selected while the Candidates themselves spend money thrashing each other, trying to stave off their challengers, and unfriendly press, etc.... Not to mention.. if Kerry gets say 48 % .. but keeps winning like this.. this would be practically stealing .. i.e. 2000... to give the candidates who are winning NOTHING- No States... an equal chance at the convention.

[Zardeenah]

18. I'm just saying maybe there's an information gap...

Maybe the best candidate didn't have enough publicity, and a bunch of voters/caucus-goers didn't know the other guys' platform. Many people, progressive people, didn't find out about Dennis until after a vote...How many still don't know about him? How many were mis-informed about Dean, or Edwards? How many just voted for Kerry because the media told them that he was the "only electable one"?

A brokered convention gives all of the delegates a chance to hear all the candidates speak on their agenda, so that they can all vote with full knowledge. If my guy loses after that, I can take it, but right now, I think the media handicap is crippling for everyone except Kerry, which isn't fair. That lets the media steal the election.

Susan