What IF we Elect Hillary...thinking we Can Go Back to Clinton Heady Days of Dot Com Wonder?

[KoKo]

Can Hillary's Hubby keep his "sock in the pocket?" Can Hillary DIVORCE HIM in her FIRST "100 Days" so that HER AGENDA for Health Care and a REASONED APROACH to Iraq/Afghaistan can take hold?

Can Hillary REFORM NAFTA for FAIR TRADE as Opposed to FREE TRADE? Is Hillary willing to Concede that NAFTA the "dream of DLC" NEEDS REVISION?

If Al Gore doesn't run...I might consider Hillary...but SHE HAS GIVEN ME NOTHING TO GRASP MY PROGRESSIVE FINGERS AROUND!

I hope that her SUPPORTERS can help me here.

Otherwise I'm waiting for Gore and will vote Kucinich... I WANT CHANGE!

[mtnsnake]

1. Hillary's about as progressive a president as you're ever gonna get

despite innuendo to the contrary here on DU about her.

http://www.progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?member=HI1&search=selectScore&chamber=Senate&zip=&x=43&y=6

[KoKo]

3. You are thinking that a "more progressive" is "Unelectible?

WHY? Why NOT?

[mtnsnake]

4. Hell no. I'm thinking Hillary's a lot more progressive than what she's given credit for here

[KoKo]

9. Convince me Hillary is More Progressive, then. I told you My Problems

with her...and give me a synopsis of WHY she's different? :shrug:

(You know...most DU'ers don't read past the "Subject Line" and really don't go to the "Links" because of time/computer restraints...so whatever is her "Agenda" it needs to be condensed into Three or Four Lines of type...

It is what it is...given the limited time of viewers on this site trying to feed families...working 24/7 and sneaking peaks at DU for their views. :shrug:

[papau]

11. I agree - Hillary behind closed doors fought for single payer - and the ins industry had to work the

DLC and Clinton quite hard so that when Bill gave her the task force he also told her to stay away from single payer.

She is a progressive - much more liberal than Bill - the GOP right wing are correct about that. Which is why I smile as she sets up the mantra that she's so "centrist" for the 08 election.

[Hippo_Tron]

23. If that is true, how do you know that she won't govern from the center once elected

Fearing that if she governs from the left, she won't get re-elected.

[papau]

32. I don't know the future - I only know the past via being involved with the ins. co lobbyists at the

time as the head of a major tax department.

In 93 they were already elected and she wanted single payer and fought for it.

What she would do in the future is anyones guess - my guess is that she would try for GOP support and compromise where possible because she is not at war with the GOP - although many in the GOP are at war with her.

[HereSince1628]

2. Dream on Hillary is into the cut and run economics of off-shoring.

It's actually quite disappointing to me how few of the many democrats still running are supporters of "free" trade as opposed to regulated fair trade.

[ProudDad]

7. Under Capitalism

there will NEVER be any such thing as "free trade"!

[HereSince1628]

30. yes it's an oxymoron, but as I use it I mean trade unencumbered by regulation

or other barriers.

I don't think free-trade is a sustainable concept with a society. It creates a system in which teaches ignoring the social costs "trade" creates is a good thing. It seems to me it's extreme endpoint is a wasted, polluted landscape populated by mostly unhealthy impoverished slaves.

[ProudDad]

31. Ah, the libertarian wet dream

I get it... :hi:

[AshevilleGuy]

5. If she were to win, it would be prudent

for Bill to stay at home in NY, at least for the first months of her term. It would give her some breathing room in the Oval Office. I know it would kill him to do it, but he could at least for appearance sake; it would be a quick trip for him to come to the WH for state dinners, etc.

[Dr Fate]

6. If she wins, it will be BECAUSE people want Bill in the Whitehouse.

I disagree with you- if she wins the nom & does beat the Republican, it will be because folks want Bill back.

Keeping Bill on the sidelines is a no-can-do.

[AshevilleGuy]

8. At some point I believe we will see her

*suggest* that she will be her own president. This might arise from pressure from repooks, accusations that if she wins, she will be a figurehead for Bill. I agree that many people want Bill back (as do I), but many more will NOT want that. Pleasing both sides will be a tough balancing act.

[Dr Fate]

10. Hard to argue with that- you might be right...

I tend to think that a "wink-wink-nod-nod" suggestion that Bill will play a huge roll-if not an equal or eclisping one, can only help her- the media & GOP can whine all they want-voters wont care...

Then again, I've never seen a RW/media frame that Hillary didnt swallow whole rather than challenge (Saddam has WMDs, 100% correct anti-war people are "nay-sayers", Kerry hates the troops, etc), so you might be right. If she took the bait on that and down-played Bill, it would not help her.

[KoKo]

15. Bill Clinton is the "Silver Tongued Devil" of American Politics in 20th Century after FDR..and

FDR had a whole other PLATE OF PROBLEMS on his MENU...and spoke to a different audience. There's NO ONE who can listen to Bill Clinton on whatever issue is his "flavor of the month" and not have tears streaming down their face...listening to him.

But...Been There...DONE THAT! Don't want any more Panderers/Rock Stars filled with Charisma and looks that appeal to Pander to MY VOTE that DOESN'T EVEN COUNT ANY MORE!

GIVE ME SUBSTANCE! GIVE ME "PERSPECTIVE" on "HOW" you Differ from the BUSHIES!!! Don't give me NAFTA WORKED...and FREE TRADE IS FAIR TRADE...Don't give me "HEALTH CARE FOR ALL" and then get in and BACK TRACK...Don't GIVE ME...CLEAN UP GOVERNMENT and then USE WHAT BUSH/CHENEY HAS DONE as your "Starting Point"...Don't GIVE ME...ENVIRONMENT Depends on CHEAP IMPORTS...We've BEEN THERE DONE THAT...and We Ship our TEAR DOWNS and BOMBED BUILDINGS to CHINA for SCRAP while they Import GOODS to WalMart, TARGET, BB&B, Walgreens/JC Penney/Sears/Home Depot/Lowes and all the rest of our "So Called American Stores" where all of us Maxed out Credit Card Users and "Mortgage Re-Financers" tend to SHOP!

I'm hoping to hear how the greatist DEBAUCLE of AMERICAN TRADE will be solved or is EVEN RECOGNIZED BY HILLARY...AND...the REST OF THEM....!

[cali]

16. No you're not. You're not looking for anything

except an opportunity to slam the Clintons. Why not be honest about it?

Oh, and what's with all the caps?

[KoKo]

17. Can you give me a reason to vote for Hillary/Bill Redux...is what I'm asking

and instead of attacking ME...think of all those Americans out there who are so much less informed that those of us here...including You!

GIVE ME MEAT about why we want Hillary to serve?

[cali]

22. Hillary is on the bottom of my list of choices

so you're asking the wrong person to convince you to vote for her. My objections are your right wing attacks on the Clintons. You deserve to be called on them. Don't like it? Don't post crap about Bill keeping it in his pants, or Hillary divorcing him.

[KoKo]

25. Back on Track for Thread...What will Hillary DO FOR AMERICAN Policy?

What does she hope to ACHIEVE? Roll back of Bush II and Cheney? Where would she target REFORM FIRST?

:shrug:

[paulk]

38. how the Clintons differ from the Bushes

here are 4 good references for the accomplishments of the Clinton administration
I think anyone reading them can pretty readily come up with some differences between the last six years and the eight years that preceded them.

http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/jobwelldone.html

http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/about/clinton.html

http://www.perkel.com/politics/clinton/accomp.htm

http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/New/html/20000204_13.html


ps - HRC voted against CAFTA - I think it's obvious that she understands that NAFTA, as it stands now, needs changes. OTOH, if you expect her to adopt KUcinich's positions on free trade, ie; no WTO, no NAFTA, I expect you'll be disappointed.

[AtomicKitten]

12. wow, just wow

Can Hillary's Hubby keep his "sock in the pocket?"

[AshevilleGuy]

13. Yeah, what would he DO all day?

Can you imagine: Bill just rattling around the WH all day, popping into the Oval Office every short while to see what Hilary is doing. Dropping by the VP office suite, dropping remarks like, "Well, when we were here BEFORE, Al Gore used to..." . Arguing with her staff for having his own chair and desk brought into the Oval Office. The possiblities are endless.

Reminds me of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. They had their desks side by side, he offered suggestions that she sometimes took and sometimes haughtily brushed aside. But she was still the Sovereign, and he not.

[AtomicKitten]

14. check this out

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3135985

[AshevilleGuy]

18. Didn't work

The clip kept shutting on and off. I have no clue how to make it work. Thanks anyway.

[KoKo]

19. It would DRIVE HIM CRAZY! His restless Mind! n/t

[SaveElmer]

20. And I'm accused of using RW talking points...

The delusion is complete...these people don't even recognize the RW tools they have become...

[wyldwolf]

27. how did Ann Coulter get over 40,000 posts here?

[elfin]

21. No, we will go back to the days

of the Starr chamber or its successor. Constant harsh hysteria magnified and gobbled up by the media.

Right now looking at Edwards, Dodd, Richardson and hoping Clark announces. All go by the wayside if Al steps in.

I crave the combination of experience, wisdom and tested progressive values. Neither Hillary or Obama do it for me right now - each for different reasons.

[KoKo]

24. So many of us ...fighting sine Supremes Chose Chimp/Cheney are looking for

Experience with Wisdom...Hope without Angst in the Closet Wating...NORMAL FOLKS. (The Bushies "appear normal) but...we now know to be VERY WARY of the "Appearance" of "Normal."

What is "Normal"...well...that might be up to psychological interpretation ...that there IS NO NORMAL...but the example of Bush/Cheney and their years as squatters in the WH living under Supreme's Mandate can give us at least a "Base Line" for comparison.

[wyldwolf]

26. Clinton's economy wasn't based on any "dot com wonder..."

[wyldwolf]

28. you do know Al Gore was Clinton's point man on NAFTA

Here's Gore's words on NAFTA:

You know, during the Clinton-Gore administration, we faced a couple of big challenges on that front. There was a financial crisis in Mexico and we took the bold step of shoring them up. And then when it came to this agreement to try to strengthen their economy and get more good jobs down there to slow down the flow of immigration, I think we did the right thing.

I think other developments in the aftermath of those years, principally the rise of China and the movement of jobs from Mexico to China and to other Asian countries, made the situation worse than it would have otherwise been. But without the agreement that was made and without the shoring up of their economy back then, it could have been much worse still.

KING: Was that night fun for you?

GORE: The debate? Well, it was like a prize fight or something in the debating arena. And thank you for hosting it. And of course, he had -- Ross Perot had been on your show so many times. I called you up out of the blue, and everybody was against it in the White House except for me and Bill Clinton. Everybody else said, oh, it was a terrible mistake.

This was from 8 months ago...

[SaveElmer]

29. And for Jimmy Carter fans...

Me included...

He served as chairman along with Bush, Ford, and Reagan of the NAFTA Commission...

[rinsd]

33. I like a policy of a balanced budget and debt reduction.

If that is what is being referred to as the Clinton days...sign me up.

[oasis]

34. Conason and Lyon's "The Hunting of the President" has the answer to your "sock" comment.nt

[KoKo]

35. I read it and watched the Documentary...Conason and Lyons reporting on the witchhunt

against the Clintons over at Salon back in the late 90's keep me and other Clinton supporters sane. There weren't blogs then and very few liberal online sites.

The problem is that neither Bill nor Hillary since leaving the White House said a peep about the RW Coverage. After Hillary's comment about "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" it seems odd she has courted Rupert Murdoch and Bill hangs out with Poppy.

The fact is..Bill had some problems with a roving eye and cigar. If the dalliance with Monica was a lie made up by the RW Conspiracy then he should say so. That the RW Media hounded both of them over trivial and private affairs doesn't mean that they won't do it again...following every move Bill makes and lying and making up stories when it suits them.

[oasis]

36. "roving eye and cigar"A fixation of convenience for Clinton detractors. It should have

never been an issue then, OR now. That's the point.

[donsu]

37. I don't think people are thinking that Clinton would take us back

to before.

people want this current series of crimes to be remedied and the country put back together again.

[martymar64]

39. That ship has sailed

The conditions that allowed for the heady 1990's of Bill's term no longer exist. We have outsourced so much of our manufacturing and IT infrastructure since the 90's, not to mention the enormous loss of American prestige and power that has been the hallmark of the current administration. When Bill came to power, we weren't embroiled in two major wars like we are now.
My point is:
Under better conditions, I think Hillary would make a fine President. I have my issues with her but I understand the realities of politics. Give a little, get a little.

However, the current conditions in America and our position in the world is now much different and we need not merely someone good, but someone great. We someone with the vision to take the ball and run with it, someone willing to risk their life and political career to make the broad sweeping changes that this country sorely needs. This nation yearns for such a leader, but I don't think Hillary is that leader.
Are any of the other current candidates that leader? I don't know. The only one I think that really has that quality I see is Al Gore. The many efforts to draft him to run and his Oscar are examples of the people's desire for real leadership. He is THE big Unaswered Question of this election so far. His decision to run could change everything.

[NDP]

40. If we elect Hillary then we are the dumbest country on the planet full of the most suckers. n/t