Libby Jury: what the hell is taking so long? 3 days and counting....

[npincus]

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003550074

He lied or he didn't. This is surely a bad sign. Someone (or more than one) is hanging up this conviction.



WASHINGTON Jurors deliberated a third day Friday without reaching a verdict on whether former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby obstructed the investigation into who leaked the identity of a CIA operative married to a prominent Iraq war critic.

After 2.5 days of deliberations over the fate of Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, the eight women and four men went home until Monday.

In addition to obstruction of the leak investigation, Libby is charged with lying to the FBI and a grand jury about how he learned about and whom he told about CIA operative Valerie Plame.

[TomClash]

1. I would not be surprised if a juror was paid off nt

[Morgana LaFey]

22. or much, much worse nt

[TomClash]

25. Yeah that wouldn't surprise me either

With these people, nothing surprises me.

[insane_cratic_gal]

2. they probably have a hold out or two

or perhaps they are trying to decide on which accounts to charge him with. From what I understood, the accounts where what was complicated.

[jody]

3. Probably indicates a hung jury at this point. Outsiders didn't hear/see the evidence presented to

the jury so it's possible the evidence makes it difficult to vote guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.

[bullimiami]

8. not necessarily. there were several counts and a lot of evidence.

all it takes is a few jury members that want to take the serious methodical approach and review everything and its hard for the rest to deny them that.

of course they could be decided on some counts and hung up on others.

[terip64]

4. They have an awful lot of info to go through. It takes time...n/t

[CTyankee]

18. My son who is a prosecutor in Brooklyn NY said the same thing.

He said that the length of time it is taking is neutral but added that the jurors had lots to go through. He said that in his experience a quick turnaround means an acquittal more than likely.

[BOSSHOG]

5. Five years ago I sat on a court martial board

for a young sailor charged with stealing money from a shipmate. There was no doubt of his guilt in the minds of the court members but some members had this god awful desire to psychoanalyze the actions of all concerned. Our meeting went on and on and on well after our conclusions were in granite. I hope this is the case with scooter because there is no doubt of his guilt, just like there is no doubt in the minds of rational human beings that bush lied and lied and lied about Iraq. The conservative manner of integrity wastes a lot of time of a lot of people.

[yy4me]

6. We are all waiting patiently but will not be surprised if it goes on

for days. This is the same jury that appeared on Valentines Day wearing red shirts with hearts. I don't know which is more bizarre, the wearing of the shirts or that one person was not wearing one. Was this a message to Libby that they loved him? One dissenter then and now? Good grief, I am getting to be a skeptic in my old age.

[H2O Man]

7. This is not long

at all. I wouldn't have been surprised if a verdict was reached by Friday afternoon, but am not at all concerned with it going into next week. Take a look at all of the paperwork associated with each count.

[napi21]

9. This is not long. They have to go over each count, and lots of

testimony. They obviously aren't like you & I, having presumend Libby guilty BEFORE the trial! From the items they requested on Thursday, it looks like they are being very methodical in their deliberations, and that takes a lot of time.

[npincus]

11. I was hoping for a hanging jury myself

:evilgrin:

[Straight Shooter]

10. This is a very complicated case and it has severe repercussions for the U.S.

You would be amazed at how even with "simple" cases, jurors will take their jobs soo seriously and attend to the most minute of details.

I would have been shocked if they had returned with a verdict by Friday. The weekend will give the jurors time to rest and reflect, and perhaps by Wednesday we will have a verdict.

[cosmik debris]

12. They took the weekend off

don't hold your breath.

[HereSince1628]

13. If the jury includes members who are careful and deliberative

why shouldn't it take this long?

I don't want to pretend I believe that jurors don't often just go on intuition, but stepping through the charges and checking off the evidence and counter arguments against that evidence seems like it would be a desireable feature of judgement by fellow citizens.

[rocktivity]

14. "The jury's first request came Wednesday...a large flip chart,

masking tape and Post-it notes." link

I remember a case on Court TV that had everyone flipping out because the jury took more than a week. When they finally delivered their guilty-on-all-counts verdict, they explained that they'd simply agreed to study all the evidence. I think this jury is thinking along the same lines. Relax.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Morgana LaFey]

23. You'd think a flip chrt and post its would be standard equipment

wouldn't you? I would, anyway.

[global1]

15. Probably A Juror Wanting To Make A Name For His/Her Self....

knowing the nature of this case and what it could mean to the country - could their be some enterprising juror that takes the lead in the jury room and is diliberately going through everything because they want to write a book about their experience on this jury when its all over?

[Peace Patriot]

16. Three days is nothing in a case of 5 counts of perjury/obstruction--

and a complicated case of national importance, based on numerous witnesses and documents. (I noticed that one of the things they requested was photos of the witnesses--obviously to paste them on the flipcharts, to help them keep it all straight).

Fitzgerald presented a very strong case, very methodical, very clear, based on the evidence. Libby's defense team responded with hot air (truly) and what I can only describe as insults to the jury, and possibly even veiled threats. ("I'm an important lawyer, and this is an important client..."). So, indications that the jury is paying attention to the evidence points to conviction. The only argument I can see for NOT convicting Libby--who clearly lied to the FBI and the GJ--is that Cheney (and Bush behind him) were giving the orders, if you consider that exculpatory for a top national security adviser and aide to both Cheney and Bush. Libby's lawyer Wells tried to play the card of Libby as victim (of a WH/Rove conspiracy to scapegoat him), but presented NO evidence to support that claim. The evidence is that Libby lied to protect his own ass, and to cover for his boss. Strong evidence on both motives. And the evidence that Libby lied is overwhelming. His lawyers tried out a bad memory defense, but that just collapses when you look at the tall tales that Libby told. It's not that he forgot; it's that he was making things up. They also failed to support a bad memory defense. And they didn't put Libby on the stand to discuss his memory. So, in the face of strong evidence of made-up stories, Libby's lawyers were just SPECULATING that he forgot ten conversations about Plame in one week, forgot why he did all that, and forgot that it was his boss, Dick Cheney, who told him who Plame was.

But the burden of proof is on Fitzgerald--not on Libby's lawyers. If and when Bush and Cheney are impeached, it will be a different kettle of fish. They don't have to be convicted of a crime to be thrown out of office. Their gross malfeasance in this affair makes them unfit for office. Libby's trial has contributed significantly to the charge of gross malfeasance, and has also produced evidence of their conspiracy to out US agents (especially strong in Cheney's case).

It's impossible to predict what a jury will do. But, personally, I think Fitzgerald will pursue the case, at least against Cheney, Libby conviction or no Libby conviction--possibly with a GJ report naming Cheney as an "unindicted co-conspirator" and perhaps leaving it to Congress to take it from there.

[Me.]

17. The Safavian Case Went Into A 5th Day Of Deliberation

This article says 4 days of deliberation, but others say they actually started the 5th before handing down a verdict.

"Former White House Official David Safavian Convicted In Abramoff Probe. “A federal jury in Washington, D.C., convicted David H. Safavian, the former chief of staff for the General Services Administration (GSA), of obstructing a GSA proceeding and making false statements, Assistant Attorney General Alice S. Fisher of the Criminal Division announced today. The jury convicted Safavian today of four charges stemming from an October 2005 indictment, following an eight-day trial and four days of jury deliberation. The jury found that from May 16, 2002 until January 2004, Safavian made false statements and obstructed investigations into his relationship with former Washington lobbyist Jack Abramoff. The investigations focused on whether Safavian, the chief of staff at the GSA from May 2002 until January 2004, aided Abramoff in his attempts to acquire GSA-controlled property in and around Washington, D.C. In August 2002, Abramoff took Safavian and others on a golf trip to Scotland.” "

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/10/ney_guilty_plea.php

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Maybe they're actually doing their fucking job?

I wouldn't want a partisan lynch mob jury.

Thank goodness that we have people who do their civic duty and take some time to work through the evidence before they send people to federal prison.

[shifting_sands]

20. Good news Bad News

Has anyone here ever served on a Jury? I sure you must have. I was on a jury once that took 8 hours to come to a simple DUI conviction that was cut and dried. The Judge almost threw us out and started over. If there is even one on that jury speculating or making assumptions over and above the evidence presented it can be a nightmare. The jury is supposed to come to a conclusion based strictly on the evidence presented and the charges, it just doesn't always work that way and I believe there are several counts or at least 4 or 5 in this trial. I don't think that the fact they are going over the weekend or into next week means anything at all especially if there are jurors who are "deliberate" types or "make excuse for others" types. If there are jurors on a straightforward DUI who are like that, I can guarantee you there are jurors on this case like that.

[williesgirl]

21. I thought the jury was excused for the weekend.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. It isn't a bad sign at all

It's a complex case with multiple charges. It takes time to go through all the information and all the charges.

I don't think there's anything unusual about the length of time it's taken so far.