*****Official House Debate on Iraq War Thread 8******

[Eurobabe]

Streaming here:

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

Original Thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3110739&mesg_id=3110739

Thread #2: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3110847&mesg_id=3110847

Thread #3: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3111015&mesg_id=3111015

Thread #4: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3111165&mesg_id=3111165

Thread #5: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3111499&mesg_id=3111499

Thread #6: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3112040

Thread #7: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3114893&mesg_id=3114893

[Eurobabe]

1. Mark Kirk R-IL 10 voting to oppose the surge

Brave man. Let the Iraqis step up to the plate.

[POAS]

5. I've seen several of them.

[mopinko]

21. can we get a rundown of R's?

i haven't been able to watch too much. kirk does not surprise me. can folks list other notable R's? like even ones that appear to be clean and sober, and looking for the light? very curious.

[POAS]

122. I haven't heard of anybody keeping a list

We'll probably need to wait for the actual vote and since it will be electronic we may not know till the house posts it on their website!

[rodeodance]

2. Thanks. I will join you, But see this Barney/Dunkin shootout thread also:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x225025

[rodeodance]

3. RECOMMEND

[POAS]

4. Rec'd for the greatest page!

[POAS]

6. Did McKeon

just liken Islam to paganism and idol worship?

I have nothing against pagans. I have them in my family, but really, is this "staesmanship"?

[Peace Patriot]

9. He doesn't consider worship of money to be "paganism"? LOL. n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

12. Heh. "You know the Truth's on a dollar bill..."

[Eurobabe]

Blanket bigotted statements about the religion of Islam

where is Keith Ellison?? I wish he could get up and refute these rank comments!!

[Peace Patriot]

7. K&R! Is anyone able to give a rap up so far? Details, mood, surprises, speech

content, but especially visual impressions? I'm unable to get TV/radio at this time, and would appreciate descriptions.

THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE POSTED COMMENTS SO FAR! I'VE READ *ALL* THE THREADS! WHAT A BOON! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

[w8liftinglady]

8. flame away...I respect the repubs who have come out against the surge

I know the peer pressure these guys face against the status quo in the republican party.McKeon did a good,sincere job of speaking.

[POAS]

10. No Flames here

I agree totally with you.

Tony Snow even felt the need to say that there would be no "arm twisting" and the Congress Republics would be "free" to vote their conscience.

So ordinarily they wouldn't have freedom to vote their conscience???

[Eurobabe]

11. You'll get no flames from me re: Republicans who support the opposition

They are very brave and deserve an email from us for their support. I wonder if there is any headcount as to who is going to support the opposition and who is voting against it? Anyone seen anything anywhere? :hi:

[Eurobabe]

13. Diane DeGette, (D) CO-1

Strong support of the opposition. Nice speech, supports the troops.

[Eurobabe]

16. Roscoe Bartlett (R) MD-6

Talking about the UN Resolution, bait and switch. Wanted support of UN. "Went into Iraq with unrealistic expectations. Iraq surrounded by dictatorships, theocracies. Suspicious of Turkey's leadership. What now? 2 likely outcomes of war: Another strongman, or federation of two states (Iraq & Iran) Talking about verbage of surge. Complex vote. Unintented and unwanted messages sent to all involved. Untempered rhetoric on both sides. After debate, this vote is irrelevant. All 435 of us want the best for our troops."

Sounds like he won't vote, except as "present." Hmm, haven't heard that one before.

[w8liftinglady]

14. roscoe bartlett,R-Md..another R jumping ship?

[w8liftinglady]

15. another good,cohesive speech about no UN involvement

[Eurobabe]

18. Not sure, towards the end he said he's be present

what does that mean, he won't vote on the resolution?

[rox63]

30. It's technically an abstention n/t

[w8liftinglady]

17. Vic Snyder D-Ark

[w8liftinglady]

19. Walden R-Oregon..

[w8liftinglady]

20. appears to support Petreus/surge

[w8liftinglady]

22. Becerra-the buck needs to stop here

[w8liftinglady]

23. Ferguson R-NJ against resolution-"playing politics with the war"

[Peace Patriot]

34. "...playing politics with the war"?? How awful! Anybody who does that

ought to be drawn and quartered!

Oh, yeah, oops, six years of political and financial profiteering from war--who did that? Why else prosecute an unjust, illegal, unnecessary, heinous war EXCEPT TO PLAY POLITICS WITH IT? --and, of course, to abscond with the loot!

Jeez, these people. So NOW--after shoving this unjust war down our throats, robbing us blind and stealing our elections--they want to make the war BIPARTISAN?

[w8liftinglady]

24. al green D-Tx strongly supporting the troops

[w8liftinglady]

25. awesome speech re what we could have done with the money we have squandered

[w8liftinglady]

26. Miller R-Ca supports surge-says we have no alternative plan

[hippiechick]

28. ... but 3 sentences later he says it's not Congress' job to MAKE plans ...

:hurts: :spank: :hurts:


OMG is he a vapid DUMBASS!!!

[w8liftinglady]

27. Chet Edwards D-Tx

[liberaliraqvet26]

29. The only D ive seen voting against the res is Jim Marshall of GA...

are there any others??

[il_lilac]

33. I'd love to see a list

of who has spoken so far and there stand-???

[liberaliraqvet26]

36. im curious to see Ed Case of Hawaii and Bud Cramer of AL....

I havent seen them yet.

[w8liftinglady]

31. Buchanon R-resolution will undermine troop morale and lead to underfunding our troops

[liberaliraqvet26]

32. He wasnt't even elected, screw him.

[Peace Patriot]

38. REALLY! (S)elected by ES&S election theft machines. Holds power cuz

18,000 Democratic votes for Congress were 'disappeared.' What's he doing there?

---------------

Throw Diebold, ES&S and all election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW! And Buchanan with them. And Bush.

Big toxic spill in Boston. Then we clean this place up. Get our your brooms, ladies!

[w8liftinglady]

35. Louise Slaughter D-NY...kicking ass re :corruption in funding

[w8liftinglady]

37. oh,F$ck Fossella R-NY...9/11

[hippiechick]

39. Mad Props to you who are listening/documenting ...

... I had to turn it off.

All these fucking idiot Repukes spewing the same paranoid 4th grade bullshit ... I could feel my blood pressure spiking and I was developing the urge to turn green and start breaking stuff.

[w8liftinglady]

41. lol..I have crappy dial-up...or i'd post more :)

[w8liftinglady]

40. David Wu D-Ore. supports Murtha's recommendations

stop the abuse of our troops

[w8liftinglady]

42. Barbara Cuban R-Wy..we send the wrong message to terrorists..we are divided

[w8liftinglady]

43. excellentClarke D-NY where is Bin Laden..why aren't we looking for him?

[w8liftinglady]

44. we have created a distraction that has betrayed those who died in 9/11

[w8liftinglady]

45. Gerlach R-Penn no plan instead of surge

[w8liftinglady]

46. Republican talking point-resolution will hurt morale

[w8liftinglady]

47. Waxman up now

[w8liftinglady]

48. we must seek a diplomatic strategy with iraq and surrounding countries

[w8liftinglady]

49. Gallegly R-ca we are at war with jihaddists(sp)

[w8liftinglady]

50. Higgins D-NY we were never provided the resources to succeed

[w8liftinglady]

51. Chabot up now..

[Peace Patriot]

52. Everybody following the House debate on the war should take a glance at

this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=225473&mesg_id=225473

"Military Industry and Weapons Manufacturers Benefiting from Bush's Continuing Militarism"

"Gulf States Plan Weapons Buying Binge"

-----

Context of the debate. Anyone who says "support our troops" is REALLY talking about "support our war profiteers." The "troops" have nothing to do with it. It's all about making lots and lots of money off of their deaths and maimings.

[w8liftinglady]

53. mike pence R up..my apologies-I have his sorry ass muted

[w8liftinglady]

54. Crowley D-NY..only member who has lost a family member to 9/11

[w8liftinglady]

55. we need to deploy to the periphery...

[w8liftinglady]

56. Stearns R Fla

[w8liftinglady]

57. your motives are to cut off funds even if this works-hellbent to reduce funding

[w8liftinglady]

58. Velasquez D-NY

[w8liftinglady]

60. we spend 8 billion a month at Iraq,while US social programs suffer

[w8liftinglady]

61. we must focus on the veterans and their families at home

[The Witch]

59. Go w8liftinglady!!! Following your excellent updates!

:-)

[w8liftinglady]

62. Gingrey R-Ga I oppose this almost meaningless resolution

[w8liftinglady]

63. we will fund and embolden "the enemy" if we leave

[w8liftinglady]

64. are we saving our troops to help old ladies to cross the street?

[w8liftinglady]

65. what we're doing is capitulate jihaadist joe,not help gi joe

[The Witch]

66. Oh, gross!!!

Send this guy back to nursery school so he can keep playing with his GI Joes and stop killing ours!!!!

[w8liftinglady]

67. george miller D - Ca the president needs to step back and think long and hard

the people no longer support this

[w8liftinglady]

68. an Iraqi needs to take responsibility

our troops should be fully equipped,as opposed to the last 5 years..what message did we send the troops when we sent them with out protective armor..etc

[w8liftinglady]

69. bill young r-fla resolution does nothing to help the troops...then..9/11

[w8liftinglady]

70. soldiers in the field are expecting reinforcements...so they can get a night's sleep

what a load of pure unadulterated crap

[w8liftinglady]

71. once you get into a war-it's easy..getting out is not easy-win,lose,retreat or negotiate

who do you negotiate with?

[The Witch]

72. why not send them home to their own beds

why can't i be a congressman, i would kick their asses -.-

[w8liftinglady]

73. Lampson-d-Tx

[The Witch]

74. Yay Lampson!! : cheeer:

Delay-ed no longer!

[w8liftinglady]

75. we did not heed the advice we were given,have not been good stewards of taxpayer money

[w8liftinglady]

76. we must fully support our troops with equipment they need

has been neglected for too long

[w8liftinglady]

77. Because I support our troops,I cannot support the surge

[w8liftinglady]

78. this war is not a partisan issue...our strategy is flawed

[w8liftinglady]

79. Reichert R-Wa

[w8liftinglady]

80. dire consequences for Vietnamese who supported America

[w8liftinglady]

81. citizenship ceremony for Vietnamese who wore their military uniforms

those men stand at attention and salute...and cry when the flag presented..because they lost their freedom..and now have it back

[The Witch]

83. ...

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[The Witch]

82. how you can listen to these guys is beyond me - but

it's appreciated! :loveya:

[w8liftinglady]

84. hehe..the guy is here installing my satellite internet-FINALLY-so my posting will be interrupted fro

[w8liftinglady]

85. Miller D-NC we have been mislead for 4 years that Iraqis were standing up

[w8liftinglady]

86. Repubs playing make-believe again

[w8liftinglady]

87. Poe R-Tx ...give me a freaking break..The ALAMO?

[SaveElmer]

88. They are really scraping the bottom now...nt

[w8liftinglady]

89. Guess what-we took care of it ourselves...just like the Iraqis will

[w8liftinglady]

90. Scott D-Va

[w8liftinglady]

91. terrorism is not an enemy-it's a tactic

[w8liftinglady]

92. none of the previous surges have been effective

[w8liftinglady]

93. quoting Cheney and rumsfeld from 3-4 years ago

[The Witch]

94. I've been WAITING for some straight talk!

Now if someone would please explain that the "enemy" is divided and by bowing out we can leave them to turn on each other - (that would appeal to the bloodthirsty repubs)... argh...

[w8liftinglady]

95. King R-Iowa

[w8liftinglady]

96. know thine enemy-destroy their will-

[w8liftinglady]

97. going back to n Vietnamese propaganda

[w8liftinglady]

99. bin laden is waiting for us to leave afghanistan and iraq

[The Witch]

102. I thought he was busy watching the O'Reilly factor and C-SPAN!

As Stephanie Miller says - look for the cave with the satellite dish.

[The Witch]

98. Wonder what he knows about his "enemy."

First of all, their name is not "Democrat."

[POAS]

105. Ok I just got back home and first thing I hear

I a Republic congresscritter quoting from a communist to justify staying the course.

I must have been gone longer than I thought or I entered some wierd parallel universe!

[w8liftinglady]

100. Inslee D-Wa

[w8liftinglady]

101. any American soldier does not fall in vain-they fall in our arms and our hearts

[w8liftinglady]

103. outlining how we have fulfilled the mandates set out by bush...mission accomplished...

we have fulfilled our obligations

[w8liftinglady]

106. reeal enemy in Baghdad is sectarian failure to compromise

[w8liftinglady]

107. Congress' responsibility is co-equal to the president

[The Witch]

104. that's lovely

:)

[w8liftinglady]

108. R-Conn...is this the American way to disassemble a government

[w8liftinglady]

109. christopher shays

[w8liftinglady]

110. we are now micromanaging the war

[w8liftinglady]

111. endorsing the recommendations of iraq study group

[POAS]

118. And what would the President be doing

Seems to me he and his henchmen have been micro-managing since day one in office.

[The Witch]

112. He's such a two-faced slime

He regrets his vote for the war - but won't do anything to stop it - ehhgnghtng :die:

[w8liftinglady]

113. Carson d-Indiana

[w8liftinglady]

114. did not vote for the war...our soldiers still do not have equipment or benefits

[w8liftinglady]

115. our priorities are not right-as he asks for more troops we have cut veteran's funding

[POAS]

116. She's having a tough time

but making one hell of a lot of sense!

[w8liftinglady]

117. she sounds like she has the flu

[POAS]

119. Here we go again --- Brown-Waite

This resolution is meaningless.

Then why the hell spend so much time telling us how evil the resolution is!

[POAS]

120. The thing I like best about this is

getting to see and hear some Congress men and women that I have never heard of. In most cases I'm very impressed.

[The Witch]

121. I heard pelosi is up at 1 :----D Will look forward to that

tuning in so I don't miss it

[POAS]

123. They are only listing

about 45 more minutes of debate time. I wonder if that is just for a segment of in total.

[A wise Man]

124. This so called debate is amazing

I hear logic, reasoning, obvious analysis from one side (D'S) and rehearsed talking points of parallel speeches without paying any attention to what has been said on the other side (R's). Yet they want we the people to continue allowing us to send our sons, husbands and daughters to their deaths for a lie from this WACKO UNELECTED PRESIDENT.

[The Witch]

125. Oh, when they talk about israel it burns me most.

Do not use the plight of MY people to justify YOUR massacre!

[POAS]

126. Tom Lantos controlling the time for Dems now

I really Like Mr. Lantos.

[POAS]

127. Peter King again???

How often is he going to babble

[POAS]

128. Ross-Lahtinen

"A war without boundaries"

So why confine our efforts within the boundaries of Iraq?

And now the neo-domino theory.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

129. I really wish this asshat Peter Hoekstra from MI

would STFU about the Caliphate. Everytime I turn this debate on, it seems like he's up and bloviating some more. He's like a goddamn broken record....

[POAS]

130. I'd like to ask him to define Caliphate and

explain the difference between Sunni and Shiite.

[POAS]

131. A new talking point

"The Fickle Finger of Fate"

[caledesi]

132. All the repubs sound the same? Why?

REPUBLICAN TALKING POINTS:

micro-manage - (STFU, there are 3 branches of CO-EQUAL government)
they will follow us home - (yeah right...the Shiite and Sunnis don't have enough money to even leave Iraq)
9/11 - (the ubiquitous 9/11...fear, fear fear)
demoralizing our troops - (yeah, like our troops don't have enough to worry about...it's called survival)
emboldening enemy - (yeah, right...who is OUR enemy?)
no plan on Dem's part - (Dem's plan is bring our troops home)
meaningless resolution - (then vote dammit)!
victory - (what the hell is victory?)
Democrat Party - Oh, shall we start calling your party the RepublICK Party?
public "opinion" - (No, the American public spoke loud and clear on Nov 7, 2006)
we must fight "them" overthere - (Huh? Bet the Iraqis are thrilled to know that!)

Did I miss anything?

edit: usual stff

[POAS]

135. How about

Instead of the stars and stripes we'd by flying the union jack if Washington..blah blah

or

They want to take "In God We Trust" off our money and replace it with "In Allah We Trust"

or They want to raise the Crescent and star flag over the whitehouse.

[zulchzulu]

133. Repig talking point: When all else fails, quote Lincoln....

THese chickenhawks sure can quote Lincoln...

[POAS]

134. or Kennedy, or Roosevelt

[caledesi]

137. So hypocritical...they smear Obama for announcing his run

in Springfield and invoking Lincoln.

Have I told you how much I hate these people?

[POAS]

139. You don't hate them anymore than I do

but your welcome to remind me as often as you'd like!

Nothing like a good mutaul hate between friends....:evilgrin:

[caledesi]

144. POAS...yeah, baaby! nt

[POAS]

136. Adam Putnam (R-Fl)

Is this kid old enough to shave yet? Is he old enough to enlist?

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

140. That was my first thought, why isn't he over in Iraq

"spreading democracy". Typical chickenhawk POS Puke....

Oh, God now he's bringing up the bogus terror alert from the UK last August. These people are so bogus.....

[Bluebear]

138. Who is this child? Is he 18 yet and can he sign up to go to Iraq? nt

[POAS]

142. How did someone so young get

so full of fear?

[zulchzulu]

141. Putnam (R-FL) "phase one of far-left to elect their own..."

Painting Democrats (many who are veterans) as enemies of the troops by chickenhawks who never served... an old trick...

This resolution will bring upon the country terrorism in the form of poisonous baby food....

[zulchzulu]

145. Roy Blunt (R-MO) wants it both ways with the resolution

He just said that the non-binding resolution means nothing, yet it sends a message to the terra terra terra ists a big message...

..so a message that means nothing also means something...

[POAS]

146. That would be talking point

number three, parts A and B.

Two sides of the same Salvadore Dali Coin

[POAS]

143. Blunt mis-characterizing Murtha now

I hope the last one up to speak is Murtha to slam back at these Republic scumbags.

[POAS]

147. Republican Co-Sponsor up now

Walter Jones, NC

[liberaliraqvet26]

148. Walter Jones (R-NC) KICKIN ASS & TAKIN NAMES....

he has been great in this debate!!!

[liberaliraqvet26]

152. When is the vote already, I have a BOEHNER...

lame attempt at humor.

[zulchzulu]

149. Jones (R-NC) is a real American hero

He has the cahunas to show that he will not read the Repig talking points. Hats off to him!

[zulchzulu]

150. Boehmer (R-OH) wants to sell you an Escalade or a Quagmire

He's reading the RNC talking points very well...do we want undercoating with our Escalade...I mean...escalation.... no thanks, buttweed.

[A wise Man]

151. John Bone Head has said it again

We didn't start this war they did!!What a genuine dip s_ _ t.

[zulchzulu]

153. We should thank Bone Head for his service in the...um...um...

...country club? When he went to Auto Sales classes as a kid?

[A wise Man]

157. I'm so sick of these jackass holes

using the same old bs talking points. Now its "They want to destroy our way of life", or "We gotta fight them over there or they'll catch DELTA FIRST CLASS and follow us over here, just because defy the idiot in chief.

[POAS]

154. Boner head

"This is WAR"

No it isn't bone head, it is an illegal occupation of a sovereign nation.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

156. I just put the TV on mute. I don't want to listen to anymore

crap from the Pukes...

Do the Dems have anytime left or will it be all scumbags until the vote is taken?

[zulchzulu]

155. What's tragic is that Congress could be debating impeachment

If I was a congressman, I would say that we should vote now so that we can start the impeachment proceedings...

[POAS]

160. Patience young Anakin, patience.

[zulchzulu]

158. Johnson (R-TX) forgot to bring his photo album...

Sheesh...wtf...thanks for your service, but can we throw the brick on this guy.

[Bluebear]

159. Jingo bells, jingo bells . . .

[POAS]

161. Now that the vote is in

have the troops thrown down their weapons and surrendered to Bin Laden yet?