Why I am shifting from Dean to Kerry

[Jersey Devil]

I love Howard Dean and will never be able to thank him enough for transforming my party into one of active, energetic enthusiasts who will fight like hell instead of rubber stamping Bush policies in fear as had been the case before his arrival upon the scene.

But that dream is clearly not to be. I do not blame the DLC or the DNC or the media for it either. Regular Democrats just like you and me have had a chance to see and hear all the candidates and they clearly have chosen Kerry. I don't believe it is solely based on "electability" either. I think his experience and steady demeanor had a great deal more to do with it than anything else.

I think it is vitally important that all Democrats come together now for practical reasons. I certainly admire those who stand on principle, but in the end I believe principle will get us four more years of George W. Bush if Kerry is required to spend heavily on Super Tuesday.

Bush holds such a lopsided advantage in funding between the primaries and the Conventions that he will savage Kerry if Kerry is put into the position of being broke due to the primaries.

So I say unite now, help stop spending money on the primaries and start raising money for the general election campaign. We can turn the energy and enthusiasm shown during the primaries into a force that will be difficult to reckon with. Stringing this process out any longer will accomplish nothing but to make Bush stronger and our general election candidate, who is obviously going to be Kerry, much weaker.

OK, flame me.

[Mass_Liberal]

1. I won't flame

but I will say that you could wait for the GE to vote for Kerry. After this, you probably won't ever have a chance to vote for Dean.

[mrgorth]

58. Same here.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

2. Indeed it is not solely based on Kerry's "electability"

he's so much more than another tall guy in a suit. Give the voters some credit. Thanks for a good post.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. He's 'electable' because he's the best choice as President.

Not the other way around.

[RetroLounge]

81. You're correct

he's so much more than another tall guy in a suit.

he's another tall guy in a suit who voted for the war, No Child, etc.

My kind of Liberal. Not.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eileen_d]

6. It is incredibly rude to label someone as "weak" for changing their mind.

Support of a candidate is not marriage.

[liberalnurse]

15. I never called anyone weak.....

some people are not capable of defending themselves or their convictions, they surrender.

Example:
Nurses are like that....many are not unionized as they surrender to big business.... out of a false fear of job loss. It's been a know fact. Nurses could be the most powerful group in this country if there were not so many who are weak.

Low wages and long, mandatory work hours and under staffing has plagued nurses for 25 years. They still won't fight for their convictions, they surrender.

This is what is happening with most of the democratic voters. Kerry and company are hedging their bets on the same phylosophy. I won't bite.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalnurse]

90. I am not judging anyone here.....

It's a fact, some folks are weak and passive by nature. I gave an excellent example of group weakness to assist my position. There are voters that are also in this group category. Study a little anthropology/sociology and learn for your self...

[boxster]

50. "Some people are weak"

So, Jersey Devil isn't part of the "some people"?

Sure....

[liberalnurse]

33. You opinion has been noted and

placed in file 13.

[eileen_d]

35. Well, that's reassuring

:eyes:

[Jersey Devil]

8. As much as I love Dean, this is not about one man

nor is it about bowing to anyone's whims. John Kerry is a fine candidate in my opinion and I will be proud to support him.

That is not an abandonment of principles nor is it a sign of weakness. To the contrary, I think that the willingness to accept someone who was not my first choice for the greater good of our country takes more courage than standing with arms folded and refusing to budge while the country burns.

[eileen_d]

11. Jersey Devil, I salute you.

Great post! :toast:

[edzontar]

66. Jersey devil, I refute your thesis

What ever happend to loyalty and conviction?

[BurtWorm]

12. Don't forget, this is about delegates at the convention.

A place at the table. It's not about bandwagons and coronations.

I'm not trying to pressure you, just give you an alternative way of looking at your vote.

[liberalnurse]

17. I respect your chosen choice ....that is about

conviction, that is good. I'll stick with mine......As a strong Dean supporter, who will not surrender, but would die on the sword....I won't vote for kerry.

[Jersey Devil]

23. I am not looking to convert anyone but

I thought it would be helpful for others who perhaps are in the same position to see what the thought processes are of another who is considering the same problem.

[WiseMen]

114. Very wise you hotness.

[Cheswick2.0]

46. could you show me the posts where you showed you love for Dean?

I missed them and feel quite disappointed.

[Jersey Devil]

49. Someone else did it for you

Is there a loyalty oath involved?

[boxster]

59. Try the Search function. It came with your star.

Or, look at some of my other responses in this thread - I posted a link to an obvious one.

[zoeyfong]

96. We are not talking about picking out a new pair of shoes, this is about

choosing the leader of the free world. Are you saying you are proud to support a man who committed america to an unwise, unnecessary, unwinnable war for reasons that could range from stupidity to the height of criminality? I guess i'm just not the Democrat you are, because my loyalty to this party does not go quite far enough to allow me to vote for such a man. You can say he is incrementally better than bush, but if that's all it takes to represent our party who really needs it? You know, the past behavior of a party has a present and future effect on its ability to attract new members and grow. When the democratic party has disgraced itself time and time again, how can we really expect anyone to support us? Frankly, i think the media chants of Dean's (and others') unelectability are so much hot air, but nevertheless, this is about more than just winning in 2004. This is about doing the work necessary to achieve the long term changes i presume most of us here want. Kerry is not going to get us there; he is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[candy331]

10. Is that a twang of conscience that you are

trying to unload here? Surely you know your vote is a vote of your conscience and certainly don't need agreement by anyone here/elsewhere. And I would hope that your little speech is not designed to influence others to vote against their conscience. "People who don't stand for something will fall for anything" and it seems you have taken the fall.

[liberalnurse]

21. In my opinion, a vote for kerry would be

taking a fall.

[Gman]

101. Your children deserve better than to not vote for Kerry

assuming he's the nominee. If you're somehow implying you'll vote third party you're not thinking of your kids considering the enormous (and hopefully not totally irreversible) damage Nader and the rest of the Greens did to our country in 2000.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jersey Devil]

13. I have always been a Dean supporter and a contributor

There are an awful lot of people on DU. Some of them, like me, listen a lot more than they talk. But if you did run accross my posts in the past you would clearly see that I was a Dean supporter.

[boxster]

18. That would require actually taking the time to look.

It's amazing how quick people are to flame in a thread like this.

Heck, I'm a Clark supporter, so I have no dog in this fight. I just think it's ridiculous that your prior support of Dean is questioned without so much as an attempt to review your past posts.

[Jersey Devil]

31. Thank you - I agree and have been trying to be good here

I am much more used to a rockem, sockem BBS atmosphere and can give as good as I can take. I would tell him what I really think but I do not want to get this string locked.

[boxster]

36. Don't bother. It's probably just a hit-and-run...

comment anyway and the poster would never see your response.

There seem to be more and more of those types of posts on DU lately. As a Clark supporter, I think that a couple people are going to have to find a new hobby now that Clark has dropped out of the race! Can't hit-and-run what isn't there anymore....

}(

[CWebster]

45. Not really, just an observation

Many of us Dean supporters have been battling for months and months. We tend to be solid at this juncture.

[boxster]

54. Some people are realists.

And, some people just want Bush gone.

Again, all it took was two minutes and the search function to see if JD really was a Dean supporter. It was pretty obvious when reviewing previous posts.

Do a little research before you jump on someone; that's all I ask.

[CWebster]

64. Some people are accustumed to having their reality

shaped for them for easy consumption.

I assure you, I research Dean supporters often. Some here will know what I am talking about.

[boxster]

69. I have no doubt that you do research Dean supporters.

You did not, however, in this case.

[CWebster]

73. Obviously

I didn't have enough cause to.

[liberalnurse]

91. Indeed that is true.

We have been crucified here and tend to be on our guard. Kind of like defensive driving.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boxster]

41. You know - DU does have a Search function. Let's use it, shall we?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=199597

Sounds like a Dean supporter to me. And, a pretty strong one, at that.

[eileen_d]

42. And again, the implication of "weakness"

for changing one's mind.

It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!

[boxster]

47. No kidding.

Arrogance and conceit only turn people off. Too bad some people can't seem to realize that, as it reflects poorly on their candidates.

Not to mention that Jersey Devil *was* very much a Dean supporter in the past. Two minutes with the Search function showed that.

But, of course, taking time to research that would take away two minutes that we could be elsewhere posting personal attacks!

:eyes:

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

63. Some people realize this election is bigger and more important

than any one candidate. Dean is not going to be the nominee, that is apparent now. Nothing wrong with people cutting their losses and choosing from the alternatives. Happens in business and politics all the time.

This election is about getting the worst son of a bitch fascist in history ever to squat in the White House thrown out on his ass in November. Not about reorganizing the Democratic Party.

[zoeyfong]

106. This is *not* just about Bush. Bush didn't happen overnight.

American politics is rotten to the core. It is not simply a case of one bad man. Hitler didn't cause WW2 all by himself, and bush did not wreak the havoc he has in the last 3 years by himself either. KERRY IS AN ACCCOMPLICE TO BUSH.CO's CRIMES. He is nothing but a self-serving, self-promoting politician and will not make any substantive changes in the way america is governed. Who needs that?

[ibegurpard]

14. yup

eom

[boxster]

16. If you've been here so long, perhaps you should try out

the search function.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=199597

Sounds like a Dean supporter to me.

[liberalnurse]

38. Sounds like just an everyday good democrat to me.

No strong candidate affiliation was observed or detected.

[boxster]

67. Did you even read the post? What part of....

"Tomorrow, no matter what, it will be a Dean victory"

did you not understand?

Sounds like a candidate affiliation to me. And, certainly not a "weak" one.

[liberalnurse]

89. Not a strong one, but one of being on the fence still.

Thats okay, as I sense the post is to open up and explore the options for such voters. My hope is that actual exploration of the candidates running will be employed. Too much Drive-Thru voting going on. Thats passive voting, to vote to wear a sticker to work to just say "I voted" and not really have a knowledge based decision.

[ronnykmarshall]

32. Ya'll have some secret handshake?

Guess JD, didn't get THAT memo.

:eyes:

[Jersey Devil]

40. LOL

Thanks, I needed that. :)

[ronnykmarshall]

43. You're welcome JD!

I get so sick and tired hearing "I don't think you supported <blank> at all" sort of crap.

[progressivebydesign]

5. No flame but a point..

I do not agree with people that want to end the primary season now. Does anyone realize what happens when we end the primary battle now? Bush will be given 6 months of non-stop 24/7 media coverage for every little photo op, initiative, you name it. The republicans WANT us to get this wrapped up. They'll have more time to work on the ONE Democrat, rather than have to splinter their attacks for a while.

We'll fade into nothingness media-wise until the convention, which will be a damn bore, because everyone knows how it turns out... and frankly a big waste of money.

End it now and we're guaranteed to become all Bush all the time for 6 months.

[helleborient]

7. Are you concerned that personal wealth is defeating small donors?

Those of us who can only give $2,000 to our chosen candidate regardless of who we are when John Kerry can give $6 million. He is privileged above the rest of us in what he can give to his chosen political campaign. That is wrong.

[ShimokitaJer]

22. You can afford to give $2000?

Even without the donation caps, there's a physical limit to how much the non-wealthy can give. It's not just Kerry's personal wealth, but his network of wealthy contacts who both donate and help raise donations, who make the biggest difference.

Dean's average donation is still hanging around $90, and that's still more than I've been able to give. Does my $50 donation mean less to me than a wealthy donor's $2000 meant to them? I doubt it. What did they have to give up to donate that much?

[helleborient]

25. Good point...Howard Dean proposes $250 as the limit...

That limit would destroy a candidacy like John Kerry's.

[BurtWorm]

9. Dean still needs delegates. If the DNC hasn't cleared the path entirely

for Kerry by the time you vote, there will still be a need and a place for counter-Kerry voices at the convention. You can stay true to your heart and do a service to the party as well. Let the delegates switch if they have to. I hope Clark/Gephardt/Braun supporters in New Jersey do the same.

[Jersey Devil]

19. Why would anyone want counter-nominee votes at the Convention?

To what purpose? Is Kerry not liberal enough? It would seem to me that his record is more liberal than any of the other candidates. So where would these counter-Kerry votes push him?

[helleborient]

26. The Iraq War and No Child Left Behind are not liberal...and dissent

Is one principle this nation was founded on.

Kerry is by no means nearly as liberal in voting record as Dennis Kucinich.

[Jersey Devil]

37. I will grant you Kucinich is probably more liberal

but not by a whole bunch when you think about it. I know that many Dems are hung up on the Kerry IWR vote but I am not. With the information that was in front of him at the time I can understand why he voted the way he did, as did 98 other Senators. I also have no problem with No Child Left Behind because it would have been a good program if it had been properly funded.

[helleborient]

51. Congress gives the funding for programs...Kerry voted for it without the

Proper funding...he is responsible for the funding as well.

Why would you vote for something without the funding??

[Jersey Devil]

79. He didn't and I wouldn't

Appropriations bills are taken up separately in Congress and usually initiated in the House. How in the world would Kerry know that Bush had no intention of funding his own proposal?

[BurtWorm]

You need representation during the platform debates

primarily. More goes on at the convention than meets the eye through the TV screen. Kerry is well on his way to getting the nomination. Does he really need all of the remaining delegates? Of course he doesn't. There are issues that Dean delegates or Clark delegates, or even Lieberman delegates will push for that Kerry delegates will not. Just because we want to evict Bush doesn't mean we can't still be our maddeningly contentious selves, does it?

[BL_Zebub]

20. I would never flame a fellow Devil

But you are sadly mistaken :evilfrown:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. Do what you want but remember

THis is a front loaded primary season and populous states have not yet voted. While the money thing IS a consideration, so is the notion that the WHOLE PARTY may choose the nominee.

It is your choice and your vote. I personally am for Kerry but am voting for Kucinich on Super Tuesday as he has vowed to continue a progressive movement within the party. I hope Dean does as well.

I agree with most of the people that want change..we just disagree on the methodology.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

84. Great minds think alike

I'm voting Kucinich on Super Tuesday, knowing Kerry will handily win Mass. I really hope the progressive wing of the Democratic party takes shape-I'm sick to death of these quasi-Republican DLC types insinuating I'm a communist. Dean and Kucinich have forced the more moderate candidates to address important issues. They have made this primary season a truly inspiring event.

[boxster]

28. Considering that this came from someone who used to use the pink tutu

graphic, I'd say that you're sincere in your conversion to Kerry!

I'm a Clark supporter, but I have to agree that Kerry's surge to front-runner status was much more than just electibility.

I'm hoping that he can pull out all the stops and raise enough money to fight Bush in the general election. We're going to need all the money we can get our hands on in order to fight the Bush/media machine.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[boxster]

60. Grovel, grovel, grovel.....

[pezcore64]

39. lol

i think you're completely insane, but okay!

its you choice after all!
whatever floats ur boat!!


Go Dean!!!

[Jersey Devil]

56. If I were completely sane why would I

have an interest in politics?

[pezcore64]

61. lol

good point ;)

[Cheswick2.0]

44. You were a Dean supporter?

I haven't been around much lately. I guess I missed it.

PS... I am a Kerry supporter, I just can't stand him or anything he does.

[Jersey Devil]

52. Yes, absolutely a Dean supporter, why do you ask when I

already said that?

[ronnykmarshall]

57. See? I told ya, JD!

The lack of handshake, not in all pictures in the Dean yearbook. Hmmmmmmm ...... maybe you're not even a DEMOCRAT!!!


FREEPER!! FREEPER!!


I cast ye out in the name of FDR!!

[boxster]

65. Ugh, every single one of these people questioning your credentials

has a star by his or her name. *sigh*

[HazMat]

111. Which is one of the reasons why I refuse

to support this site.

[Cheswick2.0]

68. I am sorry, I just never knew you were a Dean supporter... did you know I

support Kerry? Yeah, I just think he should drop out and get behind the candidate who can beat bush and isn't compromised by scandal. I think Kerry should drop and support Dean.

[Jersey Devil]

78. I think your candidate may as well be Don Quixote at this point

Accept the obvious. Dean has about as much chance of beating Kerry as the Don.

So if you want to tilt at windmills I suppose that is your right. But don't complain when after the joust is over that the evil king still rules.

[boxster]

55. Try the Search function. It came with your star.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=search&select_forum=

[Jersey Devil]

71. of course

Thanks for your support. I suppose I should get a star too so I don't look like a freeloader - this little "grovelbot" guy keeps following me around reminding me.

Old tactic - poison the well - I am used to it. Question the credibility of the messenger and thereby diminish the credibility of his message.

[boxster]

93. Yeah, here I am defending you....

and I hate that damn pink tutu picture! And, I'm not even a Dean or Kerry supporter! (Clark, for the record.)

What the hell is the matter with me?

Hehe - just kidding. Maybe. :)

Glad I could help. It just bugs the crap out of me any time supporters of ANY candidate post this hit-and-run, no justification, no research crap about other people on the board. Especially when the "crap" is so obviously false and so easily proven to be so.

My favorite, though, are the people who when proven wrong either change the subject or "spin" their own previous comments.

Completely fictitious example:

Poster1: Kerry's shirt was black.

Poster2: No, it wasn't. It was white.

Poster1: No, it wasn't. I saw it and it was black.

Poster2: No, it wasn't. Here's a picture and three solid references showing it was white.

Poster1: Skull & Bones!! Skull & Bones!!

[CheshireCat]

48. Agree with most of your post, but

I do not agree that it is time to call a halt to the primaries and annoint Kerry as our candidate.

We need to keep the media focused on the Dem candidates because once we choose a nominee, they will try to slaughter him.

Most of the Dem candidates are challenging the Smirk everyday. This makes the news and opens some minds. Without these candidates dissing Bush, the media will focus on bringing down Kerry. They will be relentless.

Once the summer is here and a candidate chosen, we must remember that getting rid of Bush has to be done before we can do anything about our loss of freedom and the special interests that buy and blackmail almost all politicians.

We MUST join together and vote for the Dem nominee. Then in 2008, maybe we will have the luxury of voting for someone we truly agree with.

Without the defeat of Bush, we don't stand a chance of getting back our country.

Is Kerry my first choice? Hell, no. Dean wasn't either even though I voted for him in the SC primary. MY type of candidate doesn't win elections in the US yet. But the push to the left cannot start until Bush is gone.

[Jersey Devil]

53. I think yours is the strongest argument for continuing, but

I think I would condition that upon exactly how the race is continued. If it continues with pot shots at Kerry by the other candidates, as it seems to be, I think it is just more ammunition for Bush.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

62. I completely agree with this post

Forcing a hand in the platform is worth staying in.

[eyeswideopened]

70. Are you implying that we should compromise our principles ...

For the sake of the democratic party. That is a sad thing. I see where you are coming from but putting aside principles is a hard thing to do. As much as I want to see Bush loose this election, I would probably rather not vote that just vote for anyone to get rid of him. I have to believe in the candidate that I vote for. Unfortunately we will probably end up with two candidates that I just can't bring myself to support.

[Jersey Devil]

74. Compromise is not an evil concept - Mick Jagger said so

Admit it or not but almost all of life consists of compromising.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need.

[liberalmike27]

72. Must

vote Kerry, must vote Kerry, media tells me to vote Kerry. Hey, where is that Kerry bandwagon, I don't care about my ideology, CNN has been trashing Dean too bad, and it's on the TV, so it must be true.

You don't understand the effect of what has happened on the Dean voters, and clearly you don't understand the media manipulation that has gone on here.

[Bake]

110. If Dean is such a strong candidate, WHERE ARE HIS VOTERS???

Do you people just love so much being in a "smug minority"? I honestly don't intend this as flame bait, but some people just psychologically have to isolate themselves while congratulating themselves on their purity and correctness.

If Dean were such a strong candidate, why hasn't he won a SINGLE PRIMARY?? Where is all his support?

And why do people continue to contribute to his campaign? I know, I know: it's their money, they can contribute it to whoever/whatever they want. And of course they can! But: they might as well deposit their savings in the Titanic National Bank. You KNOW it's going DOWN. I'm a Clark supporter personally, but I saw the handwriting on the wall. It doesn't mean I was less committed to Clark, it just meant I was being REALISTIC.

I supported Kerry long before Clark entered the race. Long before Dean entered the race. When Clark entered, I got behind him. Now that he's out, I'm for DAMN sure not going to savage the guy who is MOST LIKELY going to be our nominee.

Bake

[54anickel]

75. No flame here. But here are my thoughts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=311752#311934

[shivaji]

76. Dean would be a far better president than Kerry ever be

Dean is a pragmatist, not afraid to make tough decisions.
Kerry, the richest senator and defacto owner of one of the largest
corporations (Heinz) is through and through a corporate whore. Take
it from me who has been a politics buff for 40 years, NOTHING WILL
CHANGE under Kerry. The congress is expected to be solidly repug,
and Kerry will just play along, like he has done with shrub.

[Jersey Devil]

82. Pulling rank on me?

My first political campaign consisted of registering voters in Teaneck, New Jersey for LBJ in 1964. I've been involved in them ever since and have managed campaigns and even held public office as a Democrat.

Calling the presumed nominee of my party a "whore" isn't exactly my idea of wise political strategy.

[Mass_Liberal]

100. what office did

you hold? Worshiping wannabe minds want to know :) .

[Capn Sunshine]

77. No problem here. Just apologize

for all the shit Kerry pulled on the Dean campaign, and you've got my vote.

[Jersey Devil]

80. Apologize for what?

I think I was watching and listening to a different campaign than you were. Kerry did nothing more than the other guys did, including Dean.

[RetroLounge]

83. Have fun over in Bandwagonland...

:eyes:

[Jersey Devil]

86. Why try to denigrate those who disagree with you?

I am not a bandwagon jumper. I made my decision based on logic and reason with the intent to solidify support for the obvious nominee so that Bush can be turned out of office.

There is something to be said for those who stand loyally for someone they believe in. I suppose you might even say it is noble. But there also must come a time when everyone must face reality or suffer for it. The failure to accept it and support the Democratic nominee means a reality of 4 more years of Bush.

Meanwhile, as we watch Bush and his draconian policies unfold over his second four year term, those who stood rigidly and refused to bend can pat themselves on the back and tell themselves how 'noble' they are. And then, if they can scrape the fare together, they can get on a subway.

[littlejoe]

85. I echo your sentiments.

Kerry is a good man, and should make all of America proud. I stand firmly in support of him.

[dionysus]

87. it's ok to jump on the bandwagon

lots of people view the election as a cheap-ass high school popularity contest

but my honest question is this; are you switching to Kerry just because he's winning? Thats what it looks like to me. I don't see any other reason in your post.

Have some conviction!

[shanti]

88. and???

i've been a dean supporter since he gave his famous california speech a year ago. i will stand behind him UNTIL HE HIMSELF throws in the towel. now, THAT'S what a dean supporter is!

[Jersey Devil]

105. You seem to think everyone has the same level of support

for Dr Dean as you do. Frankly I found his strongest points his courage and determination. There were lots of things I didn't like about him like his somewhat conservative approaches on some issues. I sure wasn't thrilled about his NRA score.

But as you must do all the time because no candidate will ever be perfect, you compromise. He was the best candidate in my opinion and while that may still be true reality tells me that I must move on if we are to be able to move Bush out of the White House and stop his insane policies.

I am not into any kind of personality worship. I want someone who isn't going to give us a Scalia as Chief Justice or a Pickering as an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court. I know how dangerous that is and if nothing else I know Kerry would never do that in a million years.

[Guaranteed]

92. LOL whatever. nt

[zoeyfong]

94. Of course it's all about electability. Short term gains can cause long

term losses. I am sorry, I can't get behind the ABB movement. This party and this country are way past the point where that is a viable strategy. Who do you kerry people think you're fooling? The man is a spineless panderer of the highest degree; are you really prepared to say you are proud of his decision to send america to war based on nothing but lies and fear-mongering? I ask you, is there any sin egregious enough that you would not vote for a democrat over bush? There is absolutely no act more contemptible for a national leader to commit than to send a country into war for personal or political reasons. To have this man as the symbolic head of the democratic party would do yet more lasting damage to the party, and to America. Short term gain is not the only thing that matters. If that were true then bush's tax cuts were actually a good idea. With kerry as president we can expect to see more bush-like governing; meanwhile, the democratic party will continue to stagnate and face the same lesser of two evils choices year after year.

[MessiahRp]

95. Welcome to the Kerry Camp!

I will avoid the fray above and just say the following...

Welcome to the Kerry Camp. There's room for all and we can unite and defeat Bush. Every Democratic Candidate's message is to eradicate the Bush regime. Should your guy not win join the camp of the one who can. Thus you stay on message regardless of who you support.

I have been a part of WI's Kerry camp since Feb. last year and let me tell you it's communal, very family-like. So from my family to yours, I welcome you aboard.

Rp

[mitchum]

97. Way to go, you devil you

Thanks for supporting America's next president

Kerry 2004

[jpgray]

98. Some people here will be rude until you have 1000+ posts

Just live with it, and know it's mostly pettiness. You should have seen how I was handled at first. :scared:

[Jersey Devil]

102. I have way more than 1000 posts, just not here

I've been posting on internet Bulletin Boards since the early days of the MSNBC Bulletin Boards. My old haunt there was the Political News forum.

Thanks for the warning. I do know my way around BBSs and since this one doesn't let wingnuts in it is rather tame by comparison.

[oasis]

112. Don't worry about it. Thanks for speaking out and taking your lumps.

You took enough criticism on this thread to equal that of a 1000 poster.

Stay with us all the way to the winner's circle in November.

[eyeswideopened]

104. sucks doesn't it

[KaraokeKarlton]

99. The dream is only going to "not be"

if people like yourself keep hopping on the DLC bandwagon. Dean stood up for you and me when no one else would and we all owe him the same kind of loyalty he showed us. How can any of us expect any Democrat to follow in Dean's footsteps and stand up for us again if we don't reward them for putting their asses on the line?

Think long and hard about that.

[Jersey Devil]

103. You are making this far too personal

I owe Dr Dean gratitude for sure, which I expressed in my original post. But "loyalty" is a personal measure of devotion. I love his ideas and his courage but I would never allow myself to become emotionally involved with any politician.

His ideas, at least to some extent, will live on with Kerry. To force Kerry to go through a financially crippling primary process would mean a Bush victory and the total dashing of anything that Dean would have wanted to accomplish.

Compromise is not always easy but it is often necessary.

[TheDonkey]

107. Great Choice.

Kerry is going to make an incredible President.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gringo]

109. Welcome, Devil!

You may not be able to tell it from the hostility you'll get here at DU, but millions of democrat voters across the country have come to the same conclusion.

Everybody will feel better when Dumbya's out of office.

[K8-EEE]

113. I Agree....No Flaming From Me!

The flames will go out with time. I mean there is no use beating a dead horse.

People can say all they want -- Dean had it in the bag and made a series of missteps, as did his campaign manager. When the stakes are that high, a few fatal flaws can send it down. Kerry ran a great primary race. It was only a few weeks ago he was not even in the cards.

[retyred]

115. Welcome to the fold

There's light at the end of the tunnel, his name is Kerry!

Welcome aboard sir!



retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[oasis]

116. Conversion kick