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Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:09 AM
Original message
Kerry Supporters - please advise
I am a yellow dog Democrat. Have been all my life.

I am very sad today in light of Clark's Tennessee showing after all the hard work everyone here did for him.

It looks like Kerry will be the nominee.

I will vote for him but right now I have no intention of giving his campaign money (it's not like he needs it), or canvassing neighborhoods, or putting out signs, or making phone calls.

I have no passion for his candidacy.

So, please, feed me your passion. Leave out the "we need to beat Bush" thing - that's a given. But I can't sell a candidate I feel no passion for.

So tell me what it is that makes you feel that strongly for Kerry. Instill some passion in me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:13 AM
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Read the book "Tour of Duty"
You may still not have passion for his candidacy, but it will help you learn how he thinks
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. Read Four Trials.
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jfxgillis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Why? Passion is what gets us into these messes.
It's been obvious for more than a year that Kerry was BY FAR the most qualified candidate by:

Professional Experience

Character and

Positions

All the other Dem candidates had a glaring weakness
in one of those areas.

I don't want to get excited about my candidate anymore than I'd want to get excited about the surgeon removing a brain tumor. I want the go-to guy to go-to it.

I loved Clinton and I hate Bush, but I'm sick of the one thing they have in common, this extroverted nice-guy charm and the sense that "he's the guy you'd wanna have a beer with." Fuck that. I don't WANT to have a beer with the President of the United States. I want him to clean up Iraq, put the economy of a glide path up instead of down and I want him to resist the worst excesses of the right-wing culture warriors.

Passion? Who the fuck needs it.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. You might be interested to know that USA Today's Walter Shapiro said JK
was the candidate, surprisingly so, as his reputation was that he was aloof, that he would most like to have a beer with.

Shapiro wrote this in his book, "One Car Caravan" and repeated it in response to the question, when he appeared on C-Span's Morning Journal last fall.

Shapiro spent some time with all the candidates last summer.
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jfxgillis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Perfect and delicious irony
The one guy who projects cool standoffish reserve professionaly instead of that gladhanding folksiness is the one guy you'd actually like to have a beer with.
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Donkey007 Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's hard.
I can't feel passion for a candidate that gives no passion during his speeches. When Clark speaks I hear it from the heart of a great person. No monotone and he looks at you.

Knowing that this is merely a follow race I can't vote for Kerry in the primary. I feel that I am just following what all others have been told to do. I won't have my decision made for me.

I worked really hard for Clark because I believed in him. I developed a "passion" to hear what he had to say. You can't develop the same feelings for someone else over night.

NO ONE should expect you to.

When your candidate drops out, you will know how it feels.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. CNN said Yellow Dog Dems are now voting repub
It must be true because I saw it on TV.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'll vote for Kerry and against Bush.
I supported Bradley in 2000 over Gore, but my guy lost. I pouted for a day or two then chose Gore over Nader in November because Dubya looked strong and I wanted to avoid a right-wing shift in the judiciary.

Kerry is smarter than Bush and has a keen grasp of history and ideas. That alone motivates me, especially when Dubya can hardly speak English. The phrase "dumber than a bag of rocks" was invented in anticipation of Bush's presidency.

If you were hiring a CEO for your company and these two guys were the applicants, you'd offer the job to Kerry.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. I also have no passon for his candidacy. But!
I have a passion for defeating bush. So, I do intend to contribute to Kerry's general election campaign.
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. Why dont you wait till he is the nominee?
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. Having a pro-war, establishment DLC demo nominee is embarrassing
for many. What does one say while one's repub colleagues are laughing??

Dean '04...
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Zolok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
10. I understand how you feel...
Back in 1932 my grandfather proclaimed Franklin D. Roosevelt a "nice boy but not the man to take on the interests".
He said Al Smith was the only truth-talker up to the job of President...
My father said "Harry Truman is a hack and gone goose" in 1948....
Oh how he longed for Eisenhower to return from Europe and announce he was a democrat.
In 1960 my mother yelped that "Kennedy is a trimmer"....
She always was a Stevenson die-hard
I thought Bill Clinton would be a disaster for the party and the nation in 1992.
But then, I was with Tsongas in that race...
***
The Democratic party is not a commerce worshipping authoritarian cult...there is no orthodoxy to enforce and no enforcers for that fact.
Consequently no one can force you to come out for the ticket this year....at the same time no one can infuse you with passion either.
Either one is jazzed at the notion of the complete political destruction of La Famiglia Arbusto or one is not.
I for one, have a glittering perfect moment floating in my head, so delicate and ethereal it can but only be writ in fleeting cyberspace.
It is 2am in Crawford Texas a haggard and hoarse George W. Bush faces an enraged mob of his supporters and many many backers...timorously he whispers into the microphone..."I just made a call to Senator Kerry to congratulate him on running a-a-successful race (here he breaks into sobs all live on CNN)...I told him I'd work with him to e-ensure a smooth transition..."
Here the mob howls with animal fury utterly drowning out the President's remarks.
:)

www.chimesatmidnight.blogspot.com
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Zolok, I loved your post.
I just goddamn loved it.

Especially the line, "The Democratic Party is not a commerce worshipping authoritarian cult..."

Thank you for making my day.
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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. This is the Best Perspective POST Ever Submitted,Here!
GRADE: A+:bounce:

Fabulous from start to finish! Well done,Indeed!

your Man in the Faculty Lounge,Crunchin' tracking polls and seeing the Kerry Tsunami a-comin':wow:
G.G.:smoke:
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lucidmadman Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Gosh...
...what a sweet vision of election night 2004. And the first part makes me wish I'd been born in a democratic household...graceful writing...
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rogerashton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
11. Positives!
Also sorry to see Clark out of the race but there are real positives about Kerry. Can you think of any other major political figure who is a veteran both of combat and of antiwar activism? Anybody at all -- anyone who understands from experience both what it is to fight for the country and to be committed to opposition of a government that he felt had taken the wrong direction? He can think and understand alternative views. He is passionate about issues and about getting results. His legislative focus on investigations and his willingness to explore alternative ways of getting results through legislation show this -- but when it has come time to vote, he has been on the side of the ordinary person. He has the stature and gravitas to make the presidency once again a position of world leadership, not just administration of the American republic. The world's most powerful country will never be liked, but today we are not respected, with good reason. Kerry is the man who can best change that.

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Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Posts like this
might infuse me with some passion. Thanks!

What is Kerry passionate about, in your opinion? What core issues have been forefront in his mind throughout his Senatorial career?
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lucidmadman Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
12. Maybe this is naive but...
...try to see Kerry's 'insider' status as a plus. When/if he's inaugurated he'll hit the ground running. No period of learning the ropes in DC. He knows the ropes. He's got allies. He knows his enemies moves. I think he'll be able to get things done way faster than an 'outsider'.
Maybe in this election passion needs to take a backseat to rational considerations...
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Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I tend to come from the perspective
that rational considerations LEAD to passionate conviction.

I like what you said about knowing his enemies moves. That is a definite plus.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
15. I support John Kerry because his record in the Senate matches his rhetoric
John Kerry has stood up for our interests throughout his Senate career, fighting corruption a la Iran Contra and the BCCI banking scandal. Robert K. Kennedy, Jr. feels he would be a champion for the environment; he has fought against drilling in ANWR and is a long time advocate for renewable energy and increased CAFE standards. Senator Kerry has also supported public financing of all federal campaigns, together with Paul Wellstone, they introduced and passed this legislation in the Senate on two occasions, I believe--and without Clinton's support, I might add.

John Kerry has consistently voted against bankruptcy bills, egregious giveaways to the banks and credit card companies. He has a lifetime rating of 94% from PIRG which scores Congress on the environment, consumer issues, and good government. John Edwards, by way of contrast, has a lifetime rating from PIRG of 74%.

John Kerry will stand up and fight for us. It inspires me to see his "band of brothers" from Vietnam standing by his side supporting him because they believe in John Kerry's leadership. The firefighters are always there, too; they have been with him since the beginning of his campaign.

I am eagerly looking forward to having a president that I can respect and admire, who can lead this nation forward--restore the promise of our democracy--and, by doing so, also regain the respect we have lost in the world.

That being said, we will have to fight hard for John Kerry, if he wins the nomination, because the BFEE has shown they will stop at nothing to win elections. John Kerry is a fighter, but he cannot succeed without all of us Democrats fighting with him--yellow dog or otherwise.

(I would also like to say that, not only do I respect and admire Wes Clark, he was my second choice, and I have contributed to his campaign.)
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fiorello Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
17. Many, many, MANY positives about Kerry
Kerry was always my #1... Some reasons:

Vietnam veterans against the war.

Kerry opposed Bush's foreign policy since at least 2002 - posted earlier on this site. His foreign policy positions are not easy one-liners, but they are very similar to Clark's. Kerry's commitment to a sane foreign policy goes back to the 1980's when he fought Reagan on Iran-Contra.

Kerry has consistently supported liberal democrats on the economy, jobs and health care. He is less obvious about it than Edwards, but just as strong on these issues. (Kerry's main economic advisor is Robert Reich - the most progressive of the Clinton cabinet members, the author of "Locked in the Cabinet", who cared most about doing something for working-class people.)

Kerry has voted for both abortion rights and gay rights even when these votes were unpopular (NY Times: full record on http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/08/politics/campaign/08KERR.html). That means something beyond the individual issue. Kerry is NOT just a political opportunist who takes popular positions.

Kerry does not have a "single-issue" rallying cry.... but he is there on just about every major issue.

Passion is a in part a personal thing - when to trust that a politician means it, or is just feeding you a line. I trust Kerry, more than most politicians... more (for example) than I trusted Gore.

I expect a Kerry campaign to call for a sane foreign policy... a halting of corporate givaways to the rich.... a commitment (in the name of patriotism) to health care, to better opportunities for working people, to earning support from foreign countries rather than bullying them, to fighting terrorism without the Bush 'terrorism madness', and to the environment. Kerry's record says that he's telling the truth about all these issues.

Of course I'm passionate about Kerry!





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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
20. A Word About Anti-Insider B.S. or H.S. or Just Plain Shiite!
Edited on Wed Feb-11-04 11:21 AM by GalleryGod
The most important job on the Planet.
What we find as chi-chi-attractive in a job applicant is that he's had no prior experience in the industry.

*So? If I have a brain aneurysm-I LOOK FOR A PLUMBER !?

*OR How about a Veterinarian ?(that's closer to the Washington "Outsider" we all just :loveya: friggin' adore!?) how about a clerk/typist from a small New England paper goods store?

*By this "Neo-Hip,Hyperbolic Standard" the ENTIRE Democratic Field in 1960,1968, and 1972 are eliminated.

Go:crazy: FISH!

G.G.
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magnolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
21. I was you a while back....
...but I am becoming more and more passionate about Kerry everyday. To begin with...you can't force passion, it has to come naturally. That said...there's a saying "when you judge someone, you define yourself, not the other person". Change your perception of Kerry. Sure...he's flawed...who isn't. There will be plenty of Repubs finding fault with him. We don't need to do it too. We can defend him and focus on the positive. And if you have issues with him...deal with it AFTER he's in the white house.

The fact is...because there were so many candidates in the running...most of us won't get our first choice. So...take a few days to lick your wounds, then let it go and get behind the guy who wins.

When Gore was running, it wasn't just Repubs that bashed him...many Dems, many on this board bashed him as well. What did we gain doing that????
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. Everything is connected
That's what got my attention. Energy Independence is connected with our international problems is connected with global poverty is connected with our own jobs and is the foundation for the next century. He sees the connections in everything.

Energy Independence with a real plan and 30 years of commitment starting with the first Earth Day in 1970. He met his wife at an environmental summit. He started working on Acid Rain when he was Lt. Governor and has also rewritten the Oceans and Fisheries laws.

Global engagement and respect, even a religious summit with major world religious leaders to create harmony and a truthful presentation of world religions. His Dec 3 CFR speech was touted as the best foreign policy speech in recent years. He managed to go to Iowa and talk with people about Global Aids and climate change and avoiding a clash of civilizations. I remember when reporters were laughing, Iowans don't care about Aids in Africa. By that last week in Iowa, he had made it important to Iowans and received roaring applause when he talked about his global vision.

Community connections with service and Youthbuild and Housing Trust Fund and small business loans. When you create community, eventually you don't need federal programs. Healthy communities care for themselves.

And he doesn't quit. The issues he cares about today are the same issues he's been working on his whole life. He created one of the first rape units in his prosecutors office, helped pass the domestic violence act, pushed women's small business assistance, and is surrounded by women in his campaign. Same with gays, minorities, every other issue. He didn't abandon Vietnam Vets and he didn't abandon Vietnam. John McCain says the POW/MIA issue and normalization with Vietnam simply wouldn't have happened had John Kerry not been dogged about it. So instead of another NKorea, we have hope with Vietnam.

Lots of reason to be passionate about Kerry in my estimation.

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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-11-04 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. Yup, its passion that causes the mess
Edited on Wed Feb-11-04 03:04 PM by Nicholas_J
Listen, I like Clark, would have supported him if he was the candidate (I would support anyone but Dean, even the much maligned Lieberman, who is as honest and honorable as Clark is).

Part of Clarks proble was trying to present himself as a "Washinton Outsider". Most people know that Generals are career Washington Insiders, and they work for the department in Washington that has the biggest budget. If you do not think that Clark didnt lobby his bosses, Congressmen, and the President for bigger chunks of budgets for his arena of military control, you are mistaken. Most people who looked at Clark and supported Kerry, know that.

ALl in all, simply looks at experience. Kerry has done it all. He has the military expererience. He has years of both Domestic and Fpreign affairs experience. Edwards has some. His experience as trial lawyer is experience of a sort, but it is not the same as government experience. Dean was a governor of a state with a population smaller than that of the number of people working for the federal government.
And Denas claims for what he did as Governor are wanting. His fiscal balancing act was largely accomplished by a plan that was in place when his predecessor died, Dean simply let it run on. Same thing with Vermont's health care programs. They were created in 1989, a few years before he became Governor, and were by in large the ideas of a Vermont independent named Con Hogan who served as the head of health programs for the Governor who preceded Dean. Dean has never showed much talent for coming up with ideas of his own.

Kerry has the government experience that Edwards has, and more of it. He was a lawyer, and a prosecutor at that, also a Lt Governor. Has had years of foreign affairs experience, as well as having been in charge of a number of domestic comittees, the Small Business comittee comes to mind as being one of the more important.

You decide. IF you were going to have delicate brain surgery, who would you choose. A guy who had just gotten out of residency, and had seen the surgery done a few times and assisted. A small town doctor, who has gone through medical school, but has never performed major surgery, or someone who has had years of experience at it, and done the surgery dozens of times.

Like all politicians, Kerry has made the odd error, and had to make the odd compromise. Sometimes if there is something very critical in a bill that you want passed, but Republicans have tagged something offensive onto that bill, if the thing that is important is a bit more important to accomplish, then sometime you vote for legislation that is a bit offensive. Not one cnaiddate stands free of having made complromises that could be conmsidered unacceptable by people who beleive that you should just sit and oppose everything if you dont get everything you want. Unfortunately, our government was designed exactly that way. It contains the means by which the minority party can prevent the majority from getting everything it wants, using these techniques. This is the genius of our government. There is no way to get everything you want, without compromise. Thats why we have things like filibusters, and rules that it takes a supermajority to break them.

The difference between Kerry and the others, to be honest, is that he has all of the qualification that the other candidates claim to have, but none of the other candidates have all of his.

Even Kucinich, idealist that he is presented as, has a slighly tainted past record, and though I will take his word for his change of heart, It does seem to have come at a rather convenient time.

Only Kerry has a consistant record that matches his current platform. He has been unflinchingly liberal, and frequently gone against eventhe majority of the democratic part on issues like DOMA. He was prevented, by the Democratic Party moderates, from pursuing articles of impeacment on Reagan after Iran Contra. He started demanding it, but was voted down.

It is total past record that anyone should look at. Passion is one of natures lower and rather unstable functions. It serve a purpose, but it does not stem from the higher areas of the brain. Reason does. SO look what your candidate says, and go back and look to see if that candidate has been relatively consistant in the past though actions, with what they are claiming in the present.

And then convince yourself, rather than have others try to sway you with their slant on it. Put your own slant on it. Use your own head, your own intelligence, your own eyes, and thne choose. But dont base it on having your passion arroused by hat a candidate says. These people are trained to speak persuasively n front of people, as that is one part of leadership. But they are also trained to lie, sometimes for good purposes. I am sure at time Clark was forced to lie about certain situations that involved security, and misdirect, and mislead people. In his case, I am certain that the lies were necessary for a greater good. But a talent for lying convincingly can be turned to less than noble purposes. Self Serving ones. Sometimes absolutely dangerous ones. So relying on the fact that someone can get your passions aroused is no guarantee that they are telling the truth while doing so. Its better to use your head in these areas, and rely on the word of no one, who already supports a candidate. Rely on your own intelligence and judgement. This is how most voters who have been doing it for a while select their candidates. They have heard all of the campaign promises and speeches, and know that the only way to really tell anything about a candidate is to look back, not straight ahead.
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