Earth to any Kerry aides/supporters reading this...

[election_2004]

I've decided I'm probably going to vote for Dean in Wisconsin's primaries, because my heart is really with Dean - - even though I like John Kerry about as equally as I like Howard Dean. But if Kerry does get the nomination I will support him and work to get him elected by putting forth 500% effort!!! I live in a swing state (Wisconsin), so I am looking forward to campaigning vigorously for either Kerry, Dean, or Edwards (since I am comfortable with all of them).

However, Kerry needs to avoid falling into the same trap that Gore got caught in back in 2000, appearing to engage in double-talk or making himself vulnerable to the perception that his positions are inconsistent. If John Kerry does not clearly declare his opposition to the Federal Marriage Amendment and other constitutional amendments that attempt to ban civil unions (including the Massachusetts anti-gay marriage anti-civil union amendment proposed by conservatives in MA), he can expect to see large chunks of the progressive, liberal, and Democratic voting blocs stay home (or vote third-party) on Election Day in November. Not to mention all the members of the LGBT community who will refuse to pull the lever for him.

Why is this one particular issue so important? Because this will quite possibly be THE most important election of our lifetimes. Social conservatives are making unprecedented attempts to permanently ban not only gay marriage but also same-sex civil unions through sweeping Big Government legislation. Gays & lesbians are in the political fight of our lives here. This is for all the marbles.

Also, if they succeed in making homosexuals into permanent second-class citizens, guess what issues they'll come after next? Abortion...unrestricted gun access...affirmative action...free speech...how long before we see a Constitutional Amendment to ban late-term abortions? Or a Constitutional Amendment authorizing the government to use "any means necessary" against people who engage in "unpatriotic" speech? This issue poses the dangerous risk of, in the long-term, branching out and extending to other political issues and affecting way more Americans than just gays & lesbians.

I am not by any means asking John Kerry to support gay marriage...but if he is the presidential nominee (which looks very likely at this point), then he has a responsibility to speak out against all Right-Wing efforts at "codifying" the law to ban same-sex civil unions (including the repulsive Federal Marriage Amendment that's sitting in Congress right now).

The media is obviously going to make this an issue one way or another, so it is not only in Kerry's best interest to frame the context of the debate, but he also has a MORAL OBLIGATION to do so! He must do this for his own political credibility and political survival...he must do this in order to win the General Election!!

How will it really hurt Kerry to say, "I don't support gay marriage, but a Federal Marriage Amendment that abuses the constitutional amendment process is going too far. Bush is misusing the democratic process in order to push an extreme Right-Wing agenda" ????

Are moderates and swing-voters really going to base their votes on this one single issue (which, most of the time, doesn't even affect them personally)?

I doubt it. Most Americans are going to care about national security, education, taxes, health care, and the environment...NOT gay marriage. The only people whose opposition to gay marriage makes them single-issue voters are also generally going to be people who wouldn't vote for John Kerry (or any other Democrat) under any circumstances whatsoever.

However, Kerry needs the Democratic base and liberal/progressive activists (who are generally pro-gay, usually supporting civil unions at the very least) in order to win the General Election. He can't expect the support of soccer moms to offset that of his core constituencies.

We must protect civil unions and protect them from being constitutionally banned by states or from being banned at the federal level...otherwise, gay people will be leaving the Democratic Party in droves. As it is right now, many gays & lesbians don't even consider themselves actual Democrats, and only vote for Democratic candidates because 9 times out of 10 the Democrat strongly supports our issues whereas the Republican usually strongly opposes them.

By the way, I am an Independent, so I have no loyalty to the Democratic Party. I respect and admire Senator John Kerry, and that's why I will work for him if he's the nominee. But he has to be at least willing to stand up for me and other LGBT people by fighting the social conservatives who want to permanently preclude any shot of us being given the most basic civil marital rights.

[fiorello]

1. Kerry's gay rights record

This from an NY Times summary of Kerry's legislative record:

He has consistently voted in favor of abortion rights, even on matters where polls showed the public to be in favor of restraints. Last year, for instance, he voted against legislation that outlawed the procedure that opponents of abortion call partial-birth abortion.

Similarly, he has been a strong advocate of gay rights, even when most senators were on the other side. In 1996, he was one of only 14 senators who voted against the Defense of Marriage Act, a law signed by President Clinton prohibiting federal recognition of same-sex marriage.

(Full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/08/politics/campaign/08KERR.html)

With this history, I am willing to trust Kerry on gay-rights issues. I DONT expect Kerry to always choose gay rights over political expediency (or political necessity), but I am willing to trust that he will do whatever he can get away with doing for gay rights. That's the real difference between liberal democrats and conservative republicans: liberal democrats do the right thing for gays so long as they can politically afford it; republicans do the wrong thing for gays whenever they can get away with it.

[kenny blankenship]

9. What matters is ONLY what he's saying NOW

Now that he wants the Presidency. According to his own statements he wants something the Massachusetts Supreme Court has declared obviously Separate and UNEQUAL.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

2. sigh

Then you misinterpret Kerry's position. He has ALWAYS supported civil unions. He has ALWAYS supported EQUAL RIGHTS for same sex unions.

Kerry's position is the same as Dean's on this matter. I don't have search function or I could find you posts defining Dean's opposition to "gay marriage" as well.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Dennis Kucinich supports the right of gays to get a marriage license

What if a state were to deny teaching licenses to gays?

Equality under the law is a core value!

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

5. Kucinich and Sharpton both support calling it "marriage"

But neither of them are the topic of this thread.

[adriennel]

10. ahem, no!

Kerry explicitly said he does not support gay marriage. Last week.

Therefore, your assertion that Kerry has "ALWAYS" supported "EQUAL RIGHTS" for gay unions is both untrue and a logical fallacy (civil unions for gays and marriage for straights is NOT equal and NOT equal protection under the law.)

Dean really disappointed me on this issue as well. But it doesn't look like he will be the nominee, so there's no point in attacking his position on the matter (which is basically the same as Kerry's)

Please, Kerry Supporters, please stop trying to convince those of us who support equal rights that Kerry does the same. He does not.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

11. You are mistaken

Kerry HAS always been for EQUAL RIGHTS for GLBT's

Kerry statement last week regarding Constitutional Amendment:

"Well, it depends entirely on the language of whether it permits civil union and partnership or not. I'm for civil union. I'm for partnership rights.

"I think what ought to condition this debate is not the term marriage as much as the rights that people are afforded," Kerry continued. "Obviously under the Constitution of the United States you need equal protection under the law. And I think equal protection means the rights that go with it. I think the word marriage kind of gets in the way of the whole debate, to be honest with you, because marriage to many people is obviously what is sanctified by a church. It's sacramental. Or by a synagogue or by a mosque or by whatever religious connotation it has. Clearly there's a separation of church and state here. ... Marriage is a separate institution. I think marriage is under the church, between a man and a woman, and I think there's a separate meaning to it."




A Record of Working on Behalf of Gay and Lesbian Americans

With a 100% rating from the Human Rights Campaign since 1995, John Kerry is a powerful voice in the ongoing fight for civil rights for gay and lesbian Americans.

Ending Discrimination
One of John Kerry’s first acts as a U.S. Senator, in 1985, was to introduce a bill prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. He supports passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and has adopted a nondiscrimination policy for his Congressional offices based on sexual orientation and gender identity.

HIV/AIDS Funding
John Kerry cosponsored the first Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act (CARE) - which represents the largest discretionary federal investment in treating individuals with HIV and AIDS. Kerry also sponsored the Vaccines for the New Millennium Act, aimed at boosting contributions to the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative, a non-profit group working to promote development of an HIV vaccine in 2000. Kerry introduced the U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act, which would increase the U.S. government’s funding of international HIV/AIDS efforts from approximately $1.7 billion in 2003 to $1.9 billion in 2004. This effort led to the unanimous passage in May 2003 the United States Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act of 2003. AIDS activists characterized Kerry as one of Congress’s top leaders on HIV/AIDS policy.

Preventing Hate Crimes
John Kerry is an original cosponsor of the Hate Crimes Prevention bill, which would extend federal jurisdiction over serious, violent hate crimes. These would include crimes motivated by sexual orientation. Hate crimes rose a disturbing 3.5% from 1999 to 2000.

Protecting Gay and Lesbian Families
John Kerry believes that same-sex couples should be granted rights, including access to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need. He has supported legislation to provide domestic partners of federal employees the benefits available to spouses of federal employees. He was one of 14 Senators -- and the only one up for reelection in 1996 -- to oppose the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

Lifting the Ban on Gays in the Military
John Kerry opposed the Clinton Administration’s “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Policy” He was one of a few senators to testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee and call on the President to rescind the ban on gay and lesbian service members.

Support for Civil Unions
John Kerry supports same-sex civil unions so that gay couples can benefit from the the health benefits, inheritance rights, or Social Security survivor benefits guaranteed for heterosexual couples.


http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/glbt /

[adriennel]

13. No, read nancyharris's post

this is the point you are missing, and the point Kerry supporters keep wanting to gloss over:

"Because gay marriage is equality under the law. One cannot proclaim to support “equality for gays and lesbians” and then claim not to support gay marriage. Civil unions do not now, nor have they ever, afforded the same rights as marriage."

do you get it now? that civil unions are not the same as the right to marry? that separate is not equal and we've already proven this in our country in regards to race?

I am not denying that Kerry has made progress with the GLBT community--I think he has--but let's not confuse what is simply progressive and that which is truly equal. peace.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

14. But neither does DEAN!

Dean's position is EXACTLY THE SAME! The ONLY difference between Kerry and Dean is that Kerry supported GLBT rights before it was popular to do so.

Where did Dean stand on gay rights and civil unions BEFORE the Vermont court decision in Dec 2000?:

snip from 12/20/2000

"Early assumptions following the Court’s December 20 decision were that domestic partnership is the only real plan of action. Governor Howard Dean has said on several occasions that he would support domestic partnership legislation, but is uncomfortable with the idea of actual gay marriage. Dean has recently clarified his position, declaring in a radio interview, “I’m against gay marriage.” "


http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/feb2000/news_centerstage.htm

snip

In the interview the Governor stated, "Since nothing is going to happen on this issue in the legislature until the court speaks there's no particular reason for me to take a public position on it." His attempt to link whether he makes his positions public to the actions of other branches of government is illogical and insulting. Failing any sense of responsibility on his part, the insistence of OITM and its readers' voting power should give him the "particular reason" he needs to decide to make his position public. Would environmental groups accept a refusal to take a position on clearcutting, NARAL a demur from supporting or opposing abortion, or even Wall Street a "no opinion yet" on capital gains taxes?

Clearly, Dean is either still waiting for the polling data to tell him his position, or he's seen it, and knows you wouldn't like it. But on an issue of fundamental civil rights, shouldn't "no position" or "secret position" be just as bad as the wrong position? The Governor is either with the GLBT community or he's against it. So far, he sure isn't with it.

More: http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jul98/deanoped.htm


Where did Dean stand on gay marriage AFTER the court decision?:


“The Legislature will pass a domestic partnership bill and I’m comfortable with that,” Gov. Howard Dean said.

What was more interesting was what he was not comfortable with.

“It makes me uncomfortable, the same as anybody else,” Dean said of gay marriage. “The 4,000-year-old tradition of heterosexual marriage being an institution is something I think you have to respect. I think there are a lot of people in this state who are uncomfortable about the concept of gay marriage.”

There are thousands more who are not uncomfortable and at least some legislative leaders said they would be willing to consider enacting a marriage statute.

More: http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jan2000/news_scyes.htm

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

3. Deans position is the same as Kerrys

A Record of Working on Behalf of Gay and Lesbian Americans

With a 100% rating from the Human Rights Campaign since 1995, John Kerry is a powerful voice in the ongoing fight for civil rights for gay and lesbian Americans.

Ending Discrimination
One of John Kerry’s first acts as a U.S. Senator, in 1985, was to introduce a bill prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. He supports passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and has adopted a nondiscrimination policy for his Congressional offices based on sexual orientation and gender identity.

HIV/AIDS Funding
John Kerry cosponsored the first Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act (CARE) - which represents the largest discretionary federal investment in treating individuals with HIV and AIDS. Kerry also sponsored the Vaccines for the New Millennium Act, aimed at boosting contributions to the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative, a non-profit group working to promote development of an HIV vaccine in 2000. Kerry introduced the U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act, which would increase the U.S. government’s funding of international HIV/AIDS efforts from approximately $1.7 billion in 2003 to $1.9 billion in 2004. This effort led to the unanimous passage in May 2003 the United States Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act of 2003. AIDS activists characterized Kerry as one of Congress’s top leaders on HIV/AIDS policy.

Preventing Hate Crimes
John Kerry is an original cosponsor of the Hate Crimes Prevention bill, which would extend federal jurisdiction over serious, violent hate crimes. These would include crimes motivated by sexual orientation. Hate crimes rose a disturbing 3.5% from 1999 to 2000.

Protecting Gay and Lesbian Families
John Kerry believes that same-sex couples should be granted rights, including access to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need. He has supported legislation to provide domestic partners of federal employees the benefits available to spouses of federal employees. He was one of 14 Senators -- and the only one up for reelection in 1996 -- to oppose the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

Lifting the Ban on Gays in the Military
John Kerry opposed the Clinton Administration’s “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Policy” He was one of a few senators to testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee and call on the President to rescind the ban on gay and lesbian service members.

Support for Civil Unions
John Kerry supports same-sex civil unions so that gay couples can benefit from the the health benefits, inheritance rights, or Social Security survivor benefits guaranteed for heterosexual couples.


http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/glbt /


Dean, on the other hand:

Where did Dean stand on gay rights and civil unions BEFORE the court decision?:
snip

snip from 12/20/2000

"Early assumptions following the Court’s December 20 decision were that domestic partnership is the only real plan of action. Governor Howard Dean has said on several occasions that he would support domestic partnership legislation, but is uncomfortable with the idea of actual gay marriage. Dean has recently clarified his position, declaring in a radio interview, “I’m against gay marriage.” "


http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/feb2000/news_centerstage.htm


In the interview the Governor stated, "Since nothing is going to happen on this issue in the legislature until the court speaks there's no particular reason for me to take a public position on it." His attempt to link whether he makes his positions public to the actions of other branches of government is illogical and insulting. Failing any sense of responsibility on his part, the insistence of OITM and its readers' voting power should give him the "particular reason" he needs to decide to make his position public. Would environmental groups accept a refusal to take a position on clearcutting, NARAL a demur from supporting or opposing abortion, or even Wall Street a "no opinion yet" on capital gains taxes?

Clearly, Dean is either still waiting for the polling data to tell him his position, or he's seen it, and knows you wouldn't like it. But on an issue of fundamental civil rights, shouldn't "no position" or "secret position" be just as bad as the wrong position? The Governor is either with the GLBT community or he's against it. So far, he sure isn't with it.

More: http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jul98/deanoped.htm



Where did Dean stand on gay marriage AFTER the court decision?:
“The Legislature will pass a domestic partnership bill and I’m comfortable with that,” Gov. Howard Dean said.

What was more interesting was what he was not comfortable with.

“It makes me uncomfortable, the same as anybody else,” Dean said of gay marriage. “The 4,000-year-old tradition of heterosexual marriage being an institution is something I think you have to respect. I think there are a lot of people in this state who are uncomfortable about the concept of gay marriage.”

There are thousands more who are not uncomfortable and at least some legislative leaders said they would be willing to consider enacting a marriage statute.

More: http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jan2000/news_scyes.htm

[Cheswick2.0]

15. No, Dean's position is not the same as Kerry's

Dean said that though he favored the wording "Civil Union", he thought the ammendment banning "gay marriage" was gay bashing. He said that kind of ammendment had no place in modern politics.

Kerry said he might support an ammendment banning Gay Marriage depending on the wording.

[election_2004]

17. but the question is...

Was Kerry referring to an amendment to the Massachusetts state constitution or to the U.S. Constitution?

[flpoljunkie]

6. John Kerry: A Record of Working on Behalf of Gay and Lesbian Americans

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/glbt/

A Record of Working on Behalf of Gay and Lesbian Americans

With a 100% rating from the Human Rights Campaign since 1995, John Kerry is a powerful voice in the ongoing fight for civil rights for gay and lesbian Americans.

Priorities

Preventing Hate Crimes

John Kerry is an original cosponsor of the Hate Crimes Prevention bill, which would extend federal jurisdiction over serious, violent hate crimes. These would include crimes motivated by sexual orientation. Hate crimes rose a disturbing 3.5% from 1999 to 2000.

Ending Discrimination

One of John Kerry’s first acts as a U.S. Senator, in 1985, was to introduce a bill prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.  He supports passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and has adopted a nondiscrimination policy for his Congressional offices based on sexual orientation and gender identity.

HIV/AIDS Funding

John Kerry cosponsored the first Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act (CARE) - which represents the largest discretionary federal investment in treating individuals with HIV and AIDS.  Kerry also sponsored the Vaccines for the New Millennium Act, aimed at boosting contributions to the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative, a non-profit group working to promote development of an HIV vaccine in 2000.  Kerry introduced the U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act, which would increase the U.S. government’s funding of international HIV/AIDS efforts from approximately $1.7 billion in 2003 to $1.9 billion in 2004. This effort led to the unanimous passage in May 2003 the United States Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act of 2003. AIDS activists characterized Kerry as one of Congress’s top leaders on HIV/AIDS policy.

Protecting Gay and Lesbian Families

John Kerry believes that same-sex couples should be granted rights, including access to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need.  He has supported legislation to provide domestic partners of federal employees the benefits available to spouses of federal employees.  He was one of 14 Senators -- and the only one up for reelection in 1996 -- to oppose the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

Lifting the Ban on Gays in the Military

John Kerry opposed the Clinton Administration’s “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Policy”  He was one of a few senators to testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee and call on the President to rescind the ban on gay and lesbian service members.

Support for Civil Unions

John Kerry supports same-sex civil unions so that gay couples can benefit from the health benefits, inheritance rights, or Social Security survivor benefits guaranteed for heterosexual couples.

[election_2004]

7. You are missing my point...

I am fully aware of Kerry's record on gay rights and how impressive his record is. And I never tried to make the case that Dean's record is *better* than Kerry.

But the reality is that Kerry is the frontrunner, and Dean isn't.

What I'm saying is that as the likely presidential nominee, Kerry needs to speak out against the Right-Wing's attempts to rape the U.S. Constitution. Is John Kerry aware that the Federal Marriage Amendment contains language that would ban civil unions in all 50 states?

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

8. Yes, he is

If I had the search function I'd go back a couple days and find you the threads with his actual statement. Maybe someone can help me out here and provide the actual statement. I'll try to dig for it.

That's why he clarified his statement and said he wouldn't support anything that denied equal rights to GLBT's. What he's essentially saying is take the word "marriage" out of it that has religious connotations, and support "civil unions", which has all the same legal rights as heterosexual marriage.

He never said he would support an amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The question was a trap, and he diffused it by saying it would depend on the language.

edit: Here's the statement

"Well, it depends entirely on the language of whether it permits civil union and partnership or not. I'm for civil union. I'm for partnership rights.

"I think what ought to condition this debate is not the term marriage as much as the rights that people are afforded," Kerry continued. "Obviously under the Constitution of the United States you need equal protection under the law. And I think equal protection means the rights that go with it. I think the word marriage kind of gets in the way of the whole debate, to be honest with you, because marriage to many people is obviously what is sanctified by a church. It's sacramental. Or by a synagogue or by a mosque or by whatever religious connotation it has. Clearly there's a separation of church and state here. ... Marriage is a separate institution. I think marriage is under the church, between a man and a woman, and I think there's a separate meaning to it."

[nancyharris]

12. A few comments

<” including the Massachusetts anti-gay marriage anti-civil union amendment proposed by conservatives in MA”>

The Constitutional Amendment proposed in MA is a ban on gay marriages – not civil unions – and this is headed and supported by MA Democrats as well as the few MA Republicans that exist here.

<” How will it really hurt Kerry to say, "I don't support gay marriage,”>

Because gay marriage is equality under the law. One cannot proclaim to support “equality for gays and lesbians” and then claim not to support gay marriage. Civil unions do not now, nor have they ever, afforded the same rights as marriage. To hide behind “civil unions” or even worse “states rights” is to ignore the inequality that currently exists in America. Why have leaders if they refuse to lead?

[election_2004]

16. problems with your answers

I definitely agree that civil unions won't give gays & lesbians the same full protections that gay marriage will. Yes, it is "separate but equal." However, the implementation of civil unions will afford homosexuals the basic spousal privileges that we are being denied in most areas of the country, while acting as a stepping-stone to pave the way for full legalization of gay marriage in the future. This is why it is so imperative to protect civil unions at all costs.

And at least one version of the proposed MA state constitutional amendment also includes broad prohibition of basic marital rights (going simply beyond the definition of "marriage") as part of the constitutional ban in the last four words of the legislation's text. Is John Kerry aware of this?