Obama Didnt Get It

[champt10]

He and neither do most people understand that Biden wasnt saying there hasnt been an inarticulate black candidate ever. What he said was that there hasnt been one with ALL The qualities he described. The keyword is mainstream. Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton were NEVER given a chance to win. People are actually giving Obama that chance, and that is why he is considered to be more mainstream. He has mass appeal throughout the democratic party, unlike Jesse jackson or sharpton. So maybe people including Obama should try to get the ENTIRE statement.

[AtomicKitten]

1. maybe Biden shouldn't make reference to race at all

just a thought, eh?

[champt10]

2. Oh Please

He complimented the guy. You guys sound like FNC. He said he is one of a kind.

[AtomicKitten]

4. Considering Limbaugh is referring

to Obama as HALFrican-American, it would be nice if he didn't have deal with the issue of race from his own side of the aisle.

Don't look to me to coddle politicians when they put their foot in their mouth. They are out there and fodder for scrutiny.

[lvx35]

12. It really should just be a human race thing.

I would love it if Obama said his race was "human" and nothing more. Race is a massive distraction.

[AtomicKitten]

17. *

[Kahuna]

19. To say he is one of a kind IS the insult to all black people. He's saying

Obama has attibutes that NO OTHER BLACK PERSON has????? That's highly insulting to all black person. And by the way, I used to get these kind of "compliments" all the time.....thirty years ago.

[rep the dems]

39. Everyone is one of a kind.

He was just saying he's the first Presidential Candidate to have all those qualities.

[marmar]

3. Mainstream to whom?

Mainstream as in "acceptable to white people?" Are John Edwards and Evan Bayh acceptable to white people too? Or are they just expected to be articulate and clean?

[beaconess]

32. Jesse Jackson won 11 primaries in 1988

And got almost 7 million votes.

Sounds pretty "mainstream" to me.

How many primaries did Biden win that year?

[Ninja Jordan]

5. Why should Obama help an opponent?

Let Biden dig his own grave.

[illinoisprogressive]

6. true. I do find the media dwelling on this and Clinton's joke a bit obsessive

I think that the story is overplayed. Like with Clinton's zinger. I don't like her but, I thought the zinger fine and made her look real for a change. Then the media dwelled on it for days and made it to be so much. What woman, given a great opening like that, wouldn't make a great little zing like that.
And Biden is Biden. He has foot in mouth and everyone knows it. He is forever saying dumb things. I dont' think he is a racist and I doubt Obama thinks he is. I think he knew how Biden is.

[AtomicKitten]

8. true and at the same time Obama should not be expected

to be grateful for the gaff and consider it a compliment.

[ToeBot]

11. And if anyone could talk themselves out of the nomination... n/t

[beaconess]

30. Because he's supposed to be appropriately grateful that Biden et al let him into the "club"

[IndianaGreen]

7. I guess I didn't get it either! Biden was condescending towards the likes of Shirley Chisholm

the first African-American woman to have her name placed in nomination for President at the Democratic Convention. Biden also insulted Carol Mosley Brown, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton. Perhaps because Obama is biracial, that makes him more "clean" to Biden. If you are gonna be Black, don't be too Black!

:mad:

[frankenforpres]

9. i disagree with some things here

1. no one thought (maybe hoped, but not thought) al, jesse, or carol had a shot. so not mainstream

2. i think by clean, he means of corruption.


biden just says what is on his mind, he doesnt have a filter. in some ways i respect that.

[IndianaGreen]

10. "Clean" as applied to minorities such as my own Latino background

is used to mean "bathed" by the people that use such language. I am not amused!

[fishwax]

13. well ...

1. no one thought (maybe hoped, but not thought) al, jesse, or carol had a shot. so not mainstream

In April of '08. Jesse Jackson had more primary votes than any other candidate and had about as many delegates as Dukakis. I think he had a pretty legitimate shot.

2. i think by clean, he means of corruption.

But that's NOT what he meant, at least according to his own words on tonight's Daily Show, where he said he meant to say "fresh" or "new."

biden just says what is on his mind, he doesnt have a filter. in some ways i respect that.

I respect people who, when they speak their mind without a filter, don't come out with patronizing crap insulting to African Americans. One doesn't have to "have a filter" to avoid implying that it is somehow surprising that an African American would have such qualities.

[Eurobabe]

14. No more pResidents without a filter, Asshat was enough!

The next President better have a damn good functioning FILTER. It's shit like this that makes the US look STOOPID.

[frankenforpres]

15. cmon, biden isnt going to win

the guy didnt mean any ill will, he isnt going to be prez, it is a non story.

[Eurobabe]

16. We all know that, but even Senators without a filter

can cause problems. I think it IS a story. People in positions of making public statements representing the US need to watch themselves.

[beaconess]

34. What's a bigger story, in my mind, is how diligently people are defending Biden

and insisting that Obama should be grateful for the "compliment" and shut the hell up.

THAT, to me, is a much bigger story than what Biden said.

[frankenforpres]

46. interesting point

i definitely dont think he should be grateful

[beaconess]

33. No sane person thinks Biden's going to win, either - so I guess he's not mainstream, either.

[Kahuna]

20. Well you know IG, I used to get "compliments" like this all the time

30 years ago. And the fact that I'm a very fair-skinned black person had a lot to do with it. The "compliment" was usually preceded by, Are you half white? :eyes: Because, you're "different." You're so smart and articulate, blah blah blah...

[IndianaGreen]

28. From my mother's side of the family, I come from a proud Sephardic tradition

but from my father's side, my paternal grandmother had some Black African blood in her. I think it is great to come from such a multi-ethnic tradition, but what I see as strength, others see as weakness. I don't think Biden even realizes what he said.

What I think is great is that Hillary and Obama are running, and neither gender nor race are the issue, Biden's ill-advised comments notwithstanding (he is an old dude, anyhow!).

[Kahuna]

18. I know. I know. He was giving him a compliment like when white

folks used to tell me 30 years ago, how "different" I was. DIFFERENT FROM WHAT????? All other black people? Are you telling me that you think I'm the best or smartest black person you know???? If you think that I'm the smartest of best black person, you don't think very highly about black folks.

Get it now. :eyes:

[salin]

24. Probably not...

those going on the defense are sounding self-righteous in the posts - ala already decided that *I* am right and not listening reading to anything else since the point of the thread is to dismiss all others.

For those who don't want to see - the context of the overall piece was dismissing other candidates, one by one. Yet now we are to believe that for Obama he was being positive with none of the condescention shown towards other candidates? Sure.

Your point is well taken - but sadly probably won't be heard by those who need to hear it.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

21. Complete bullshit

Funny thing about Joe Biden: in 1988, he bumbled out of the race like the dunce he is, while Jesse 'Unclean' Jackson went on to finish second.

Other funny thing: this isn't even close to the first racist statements he's made recently.

Really funny thing: his hair plugs, and that he thinks he's going to be president.

[retread]

22. Oh yeah, he's not like the rest of THEM is he? n/t

[Connie_Corleone]

26. You just hit the nail on the head. See my post below.

[salin]

23. Maybe if Biden hadn't indulged in slapping all of his rival comments

people might be more open to these sorts of 'explanations' - but the over all tone was one of condescention - hence the context made it sound as bad as it was.

Foolish way to kick off a campaign. But Biden isn't known for really wise moves during a presidential campaign (Kinnock (sp) speech comes to mind).

[Connie_Corleone]

25. Let's cut through the bullshit.

Obama being a mainstream candidate is just code speak for, "I like Obama. He's more like "us". He doesn't have all that racism/slavery baggage like the other black candidates who ran for president. He sounds more like "us". We don't have to feel guilty about racism every time we hear a black candidate speak to us."

That's what mainstream means here. What else could it mean since the other black candidates spoke to the issues that concerned the poor, minorities, the war in Iraq, equal opportunity, etc?

Yep. Nothing mainstream about those issues. /sarcasm

[justiceischeap]

27. One thing that struck me last nite about the "clean" comment

Clean could mean he is without baggage. Not saying I know if this is how Biden meant it but that is another way it could be taken.

[beaconess]

29. Thank goodness you're around to educate him about it.- why don't you email him and

give him the benefit of your greater wisdom?

[Hippo_Tron]

31. What Biden meant to say was the first black candidate that most white people take seriously

And IMO, Biden is 100% correct. That doesn't change the fact that in the era of soundbite politics you don't say things like that when you're running for office.

[beaconess]

35. That's not what he said. And even if that's what he meant, why talk about

his being articulate, clean and smart, as if this was something unusual?

[Hippo_Tron]

36. It's his way of saying that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton weren't serious candidates

And that they only appealed to black people and not to the rest of America. Especially since Jackson, who had a much better shot than Sharpton, made anti-semitic remarks during the primaries killing any shot he had with a lot of white voters.

[beaconess]

37. If that's what he meant, he was dead wrong

If he made that assumption, he's not only wrong, he's ignorant and a bigger fool than I thought.

Only an ignorant person blinded by race and racist stereotypes would believe, much less claim that Sharpton and Jackson "appealed only to black people and not to the rest of America."

For example, Jesse Jackson won 11 primaries in 1988 and got considerably more support than Biden did. In fact, he came in second only to Dukakis. His support came from all races, not just blacks. I'll bet that Jackson got more support from white voters than Biden got from black voters - making Jackson a much more "mainstream" candidate than Biden can ever hope to be.

[Hippo_Tron]

40. Well I think Biden would've been slaughtered in a general election

He has even worse senatorial syndrome than Kerry did. But whether Jackson could've appealed to enough white voters to win is a valid question.

[beaconess]

41. So, you have to appeal to enough white voters to win in order to be a "serious" candidate?

I guess that means George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush (or Al Gore) are the only serious presidential candidates we've had in the last 20 years since no other candidate appealed to enough white voters to win the election?

[Hippo_Tron]

42. It's sad but it's true

The fact is that if a black candidate acts a certain way and talks a certain way, white voters will dismiss him as being a "black candidate" instead of a "mainstream candidate". I'm not saying that Jesse Jackson only wanted to appeal to black people, because I believe that he tried to appeal to all races. If he ran now and had a shot I'd definitely vote for him because I like his stances on issues and I appreciate the support he gave Ned Lamont. But the fact is that most of white America considers Jackson to be a "black candidate" and thus he would have an extremely difficult if not impossible time overcoming that in a general election.

[beaconess]

44. Then how do you explain why Jackson did better than Biden in the presidential race?

Biden certainly didn't come across as "too black" for white voters, yet Jesse Jackson kicked his - and just about everybody else's - butt in 1988.

[Hippo_Tron]

45. Democratic primaries consist largely of progressive white voters and black voters

Far more so than a general election anyway. Democratic white voters tend to be particularly more progressive on race issues and more willing to look past stupid things like "black candidate" vs "mainstream candidate" whereas Independent and moderate Republican whites are far less likely to.

Biden also killed his candidacy because of his speech plagiarism and again was a weak candidate because he had "senatorial disease".

[lynne]

38. Biden's statement stands on its own, they're his words -

- and we shouldn't need to mold them into something else or try to explain them away. Any candidate that is issuing apologies the day he announces isn't worth wasting time on as they are going nowhere. Biden has a habit of being inarticulate himself, aka his remark about Indian's and convenience stores last year. He won't make it out of the gate.

[zulchzulu]

43. The only thing to "get" is that Biden f**ked up...pure and simple

He should know better than to string himself up like he did. You can't blab on with Greenville Country Club talk to the media when you're running for President. Biden painted himself in a corner.

Dragging Obama into Biden's sloppy vortex is inane.

[TankLV]

47. This topic reminds me of when a woman asks: "Do I look fat in this?"

it's a no win situation.

If you don't want an answer, don't ask the question.

Of if a guy compliments a woman on the way she looks presently, she accuses: "So you're saying I don't look good on all the other days?"

It bullshit and as a man I'm sick and tired of the double standard.

Bidden gave Obama a compliment. By saying Obama was good in some aspect, Bidden was NOT saying that ALL OTHER BLACK PERSONS WERE LACKING!

That is what this discussion is degenerating into, and it's juvinile...

People need to grow up.

If you look hard enough, you can take offense at EVERYTHING...

BUT...

that does not negate the negative connotations of the particular words used in Bidden's statement, because the bigoted amongst us use exactly those words to mean the insults they intend, but try to hide it in language that is ambiguous...

So in light of THAT context, I can see how some take offense at what Bidden said.

I just think from listening to Bidden, and what he has said and done all his life, he is hardly even beginning to approach being a racist or bigot or a KKK member that some are trying to make him out to be - in fact, quite the opposite...

[foo_bar]

48. "No honey, you don't look fat. For the first time ever! We're talkin' storybook!"

[beaconess]

51. "No honey, you're not like your mother and sisters - you're pretty and shapely and smart"

[fujiyama]

49. Oh so now it's Obama's fault

for replying to Biden's statement? Biden did (whether he meant to or not), dismiss all previous African American candidates while "praising" Obama. And in his patronizing and condescending statement did imply that they were not as "articulate".

And Jesse Jackson, whether he was considered a "meanstream" candidate or not, did do pretty well in '88.

I don't think Biden's a racist. But he's an idiot. And he shot himself with this. It's not Obama's duty or responsibility to dig Biden out of this. In fact, Obama was very gracious about this and played it well.

[beaconess]

50. This is an all-too familiar refrain

A public figure says something that offends blacks. When black people (and others who get it) call them on it, the black folk are attacked for "playing the race card" or "calling X a racist" or "making a big deal out of nothing" or "not letting it go." They are then lectured by members of the majority who insist that not only did the public figure not mean any offense, but that the black folk had no right to be offended and that the public figure is now being victimized.

I find it fascinating that people are so much more willing to attack the people who are offended by such comments than they are to criticize the person who made them - or even make any effort to understand why the comments were offensive.

Of course, if a BLACK person makes a comment that white people find offensive, the majority has an entirely different approach. Case in point - Jesse Jackson's 20 year old "hymietown" remark. After he made the remark, Jackson apologized profusely, met with Jewish leaders, developed strong partnerships with the Jewish community, and has done everything in his power to overcome the incident. Yet, 20 years later, this is still thrown in his face in every discussion about racially insensitive comments. Neither at the time nor now have I heard a groundswell of white folks screaming that Jackson didn't mean any offense or that Jews had no right to be offended or that people should just let the issue go.

And I bet if Barack Obama were to make a racially insensitive comment about a white person, he would get nothing close to the full out defense we've seen Biden afforded and those offended by such a comment would not be overwhelming told to shut up and get over it.

[izzybeans]

52. The fact that the multitudes of african-american men who fit that description

remain anonymous is pretty f'ing telling. When's the last time someone had to reassure good "folks" that a white man was "articulate" and clean. John Kerry was called wishy-washy and too intellectual. I'm sure he's pretty clean and his wife sure thinks he's purty.

If Biden meant Obama is the first person people are paying attention to then his words betray him. ALL the qualities he listed included clean, attractive, and articulate in the mainstream. This by implication means the rest are dirty, ugly, and stupid. This includes all the friends of Dr. King that have been demonized as "out' of the mainstream by white America. Defending that statement is a mighty, might task. Good luck.

[geek tragedy]

53. What a silly, uppity Negro he is!

When massa says he talk good, he should nod his head and say "thankee massa."

:sarcasm:

[Renew Deal]

54. I think people get it. It's just incredibly dumb.

[SteveM]

55. "It will certainly be talked about" -- Wayne La Pierre, NRA

I don't much care about the "clean" controversy or what the pill-popper, draft-dodger Limbaugh says. What is important is this: www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/17/politics/main2369157.shtml The story is about Obama's time in earlier offices. "...opposed letting people use a self-defense argument if charged with violating local handgun bans by using weapons in their homes. The bill was a reaction to a Chicago-area man who, after shooting an intruder, was charged with a handgun violation." To which the dehydrated Frenchman Wayne La Pierre responded: "It will certainly be talked about. You can take that to the bank."

Don't folks here think it's time to talk about the gun stands of Democratic presidential hopefuls? Or should we remain silent as usual and let the NRA define candidates, as usual? Consider this appeal before this posting is relegated to the gungeon.