Osama ads in Iowa...

[DannyRed]

http://www.jrnl.com/cfdocs/new/stories/pgfp0209200408.htm

According to the above linked article:

1) A group called ``Americans for Jobs, Healthcare (sic), and Progressive Values" has no 8872 filing online. The group, started in November, ran three anti-Howard Dean ads including one picturing Osama bin Laden and is now inactive. Tuesday, Feb. 3, an inquiry regarding the filing, made to the group's treasurer, David W. Jones, a Democratic fundraiser in Washington, D.C., elicited the information that the organization is not dissolving but that he is the sole officer listed. He referred the query to Kenneth A. Gross , a partner in law firm Skadden, Arps, who has been with ``Americans for Jobs. etc." from its beginning. Gross, who lives in Bethesda, served in the Federal Election Commission for six years under Reagan . He confirmed that he was counsel for Bob Dole's campaign committees in 1996 and 2000.

2)   Currently, Gross is counsel for the 2004 Republican national convention; he is also general counsel for the Republican Leadership Council. The RLC's 2003-2004 Strategy Meeting featured Gross as a speaker on campaign finance reform.

3) ..... the filing arrived. Dated Jan. 30, it showed that ``Americans for Jobs" received $663,000 from 26 donors. The profile is not ``progressive." About two-thirds of the contributions were corporate, with two executives giving $100,000 each, and a third giving $50,000. Another $80,000 came from attorneys. The Torricelli for Senate Committee kicked in $50,000. Six labor unions gave $200,000. Expenditures, besides the half-million for television ads, included $40,000 for Jones' consultancy firm and $15,000 for Skadden, Arps.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/02/10/politics1944EST0809.DTL

Torricelli's PAC is raising money for Kerry.

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/contrib.asp?ID=N00000245&Cycle=2004

And the top contributor to Kerry's campaign is.....

Skadden, Arp....

Connecting dots.

Kerry supporters, please explain this.

[DannyRed]

1. Kicking

My interest is piqued, and I really want to hear an explanation.

Really.

[MariaS]

2. And while we are at it

here is a wonderful little piece by Scott Ritter.

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-vprit093662615feb09,0,359814.story?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines

My hat is off to America. Good choice

[DannyRed]

3. And,

While the tone and tenor of these pieces are certainly damaging to Kerry, please keep in mind that these are verifiable facts.

Just because these facts exist does NOT necessarily mean that the explanation for them is as straightforward as it seems, NOR does it necessarily lead to the conclusion that Kerry is as dastardly as it seems on the face of things.

That is why I want an explanation.

Smears and nasty rhetoric can come later, if and only if a satisfactory explanation is not forthcoming.

As it stands, it seems to me like the "GOP-lite" attack is more than appropriate, both in terms of style, content, strategy and connections.

Waiting, Kerry people.

[DannyRed]

4. Another Kick

I realize that the hot news is Clark's apparent (but not confirmed, and we can still hope) withdrawal from the nomination race...

But I think this is an important question....

[revo2004]

5. Kerry was behind those ads /eom

[DannyRed]

6. If so,

Then what?

I am still waiting for a rebuttal/explanation from Kerry supporters.

[newyawker99]

31. Hi revo2004!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[kiahzero]

7. What more would Kerry supporters know that non-supporters wouldn't?

What additional information would Kerry supporters be privy to?

[DannyRed]

9. Well,

It is possible that some have looked into this, have more info or whatever.... if so they should answer these questions.

If noone who supports Kerry on this message board have more info, then they should attempt their best explanation, as they have attempted to explain various senatorial votes made by Mr. Kerry.

I often disagree with their explanations, but they do serve a purpose, and sometimes they are convincing and effective.

They should have the space to answer charges against their candidate of choice...

At the very least so that they can explain their continued support to those of us who do not support Kerry...

After all, if they manage to convince even one non-supporter, then they have won a small victory for their candidate.

[Eloriel]

17. One Kerry supporter in an earlier thread today actually defended

those ads -- yup, said they were "not inappropriate."

Don't expect much of an explanation -- or at least not until the proper spin can be determined. It wouldn't be unusual for this thread simply to be allowed to sink -- esp. with the Clark news, I guess.

So keep it kicked. I personally don't feel I need an explanation -- there's been enough other Kerry dirty tricks against Dean that I pretty much know the score here. But it's really not much to ask for them to answer your question and provide an explanation.

[jansu]

8. I've said it before....

Who did the White House gang say they WANTED to run against? Dean.
Who did the White House gang say they would HATE to run against? Kerry.
Has this White House gang lied about anything else? We are letting the Republicans decide who our candidate will be. Enough said!

[GumboYaYa]

11. Exactly. I'm disgusted by the Osama Ads.

How anyone can accuse Dean of splitting the Dem party when they pull shit like this is beyond me. You won't get an explanation, because there is none other than to play ostrich, bury your head in the sand and act like it did not happen.

[paulk]

10. connecting the dots?

Let me see... a customer of mine, who has spent a lot of money in my store, gave $2,000 to the Bush campaign a few months ago.

Ergo - I'm a Republican.

[cindyw]

12. I was going to answer but that is the best answer I could have seen.

I'll leave it you. Kerry would not work with a Republican. He is not responsible for the actions of his contributors. I sure hope none of Dean supporters have run a red light recently. We'll have to send the ticket to Dean.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

14. I'll bet you could connect the dots back to....

Dean.

You see, by surrendering to the inevitable attacks on his being weak on defense meme, Dean himself constructed this tangled web whereby he could attack himself and then later blame his inevitable and unavoidable failure on this one ad.

[killbotfactory]

15. So a Dean bundler ponied up 50k to the attack group?

Nope, it was a Kerry bundler.

[ShimokitaJer]

32. Then why don't you do so?

Rather than speculating wildly, perhaps you'd be willing to do a little footwork and show us some of that "proof" you're so fond of demanding?

[Debi]

38. Not quite...

Torch gave money to Kerry...Kerry had 'nothing' to do with the ads...Torch is raising money for Kerry...incoming!!!Torch helped fund the ads....of course...it's all a damn coincidence. Poor Kerry, just caught up in the circumstances...

[HFishbine]

40. It would be more like

A customer of yours contributing to an ad campaign that denegrated your competition.

[killbotfactory]

13. Kerry isn't stupid enough to have a direct connection with the ad

Therefor he's not responsible.
:eyes:

[DannyRed]

16. Kicking again

With a respinse to the "Kerry is not responsible for his supporters' actions" thingy...

That is a pretty weak response.

It IS a response, and it DOES has some merit....HOWEVER, I think that the opensecrets.org information, coupled with Kerry's political background and history with Skadden, Arp, indicates that Skadden, Arp, who was both a provider and a beneficiary of the money and group that put out that Osama Ad, coupled with the fact that Skadden Arp is Kerry's LARGEST donor, and has been for a long time (before the current election cycle, I believe), indicates that Skadden, Arp is MORE than simply a "supporter".

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EvilJam]

18. and, before i forget...

DEATH TO AMERICA!!
i LOVE You, David Letterman! ;) LOL (i love that bit)! - evil

[DannyRed]

19. Kicking again.

Funny how this thread is sooooooo quiet.

Did I fart or something?

[progressivebydesign]

20. No.. you pointed out the obvious..

.. and it smells just as bad to many people. This story is totally worthy.. but will be ignored. The ad was reprehensible, and it scares me to death that there are Democrats okay with the notion that a Democrat initiated and masterminded and funded this. If Rove did this.. people would scream for his head. I just don't get it...

[DannyRed]

21. I can't

really understand the reluctance of so many who are generally so prolific in their support and defense of Senator Kerry.

I feel as if I am shouting into a chasm, and listening to the wind blow through the trees...

Chiirrrrrp...Chiirrrrp go the crickets.

[Debi]

42. Dont' you mean

BAaaa...BAaaa go the sheep?

[paulk]

22. Skadden, Arps,Slate,Meagher, and From,llp

employs approx. 1750 attorneys, of which Kenneth Gross is one. Drawing a connection between a single employee of a large company and what one of it's partners does outside of that company is absurd.

The article says that "Americans for Jobs" paid $15,000 to Skadden, Arps. For what? Perhaps some sort of legal service?

You're playing six degrees of seperation here.

[DannyRed]

23. Well,

that's a little better, but can you address the other facts revealed in the above links?

[DannyRed]

24. Still kicking...

Still wondering.

Oh, and Skadden, Arp, etc and FROM?

Is that the same From that I am thinking about?

Hmmmmm....

Curioser and curioser.

[anti-bush]

25. Is Kenneth Gross

a Skull and Bones guy?

[tobius]

26. glad they passed that campaign finance reform bill n/t

[DannyRed]

28. Really, people...

Does it take so much to take some time and explain to little old me how this works, and why?

Or is it really as bad as it seems?

If it IS as bad as it seems, what is Kerry going to do about it?

[King of New Orleans]

29. Here, read this article

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1963&e=18&u=/ap/20040211/ap_on_el_pr/anti_dean_ads_2&sid=96378798

It says virtually all the donors to the group were Gephardt supporters. Actually a couple of guys had made donations to Dean.

[DannyRed]

the folks who gave donations to dean

gave equal amounts to the other candidates (Kerry and Gep)

Gep has since endorsed Kerry....

And Torch is now fundraising for Kerry...

And the linkages between Kerry, S,A&etc, llp and the 527...

all tell whatg appears to be a very dirty story...

your explanation helps a bit, but does not defuse the overarching theme...

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[Redneck Socialist]

33. While we're piling on

The unions that donated to the 527 were Gephardt supporters so there is plenty of dirt to go around.

However I am neither shocked nor outraged by this. We are playing the game of politics here and it is dirty and ugly. It will get dirtier and uglier by the time it is done. If the Dean campaign can't handle one negative ad (whomever paid for it) it won't do very well come the general election.

[helleborient]

34. The quiet is deafening as it was from my post..

That the Torricelli contributions for the ads are quite possibly illegal according to AP.

Plenty of regular defenders of Kerry are very conspicuous by their absence.

I suppose they want this to go away...nothing here, move along please...??

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joshcryer]

37. Wow, you're right, this is absolutely amazing.

Amazing.

[enki23]

36. shouldn't this asshole be behind bars somewhere?

fuck torricelli.

[redqueen]

39. Yes, why isn't he?

That's a very good question.

Does anyone know why he's not behind bars?

[Ugnmoose]

41. Kerry needs to respond asap

This is the kind of dirty politicking that can really taint him, if not now, then certainly later on.

[Debi]

43. If you ignore it ...it will go away...

Look at Dean......

[helleborient]

44. Yep, just like Kerry ignores those against the war...

Accusing us of "crying in our teacups."

No tears for Kerry getting caught in bed with old-fashioned political corruption.

[Fleshdancer]

45. You forgot about Robert Gibbs

Robert Gibbs is a former spokesperson for the Kerry campaign. According to this CNN article, Gibbs was one of the two leaders of this disgusting group.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/17/elec04.prez.dean.osama/

[MoonAndSun]

46. kick

still waiting for a statement from either Toricelli or Kerry.

[King of New Orleans]

50. Robert Gibbs left the Kerry campaign

When Kerry fired his first campaign manager. So I guess that means that Kerry fired his campaign manager as a clever ploy to provide cover for his spokesperson to quit and go to work for a group that would secretly sabatoge Dean on Kerry's behalf. Wow, Kerry isn't just a genius he's an evil mastermind.

[redqueen]

47. Why is Toricelli not behind bars?

Anyone know or should I just start digging?

[killbotfactory]

48. If I remember correctly, some of the unions were disgusted by the ad

And demanded their money back.

[DannyRed]

49. You remember correctly...

The unions got suckered into ponying up money for an ad campaign that is as disgusting as anything Chambliss did to Cleland in Georgia.

When THAT happened, a slimeball attack ad comparing Cleland to Osama and Hussein resulted in the destruction of the political career of a triple amputee, a hero, and a decent, generous, straightforward representative of the American people, Senator Max Cleland.

Here on DU, and all over the various political opinion sites and scenes dedicated to Democratic interests, progressive interests, and not a few moderate GOP and independent interests, there was OUTRAGE at such disgusting and dirty tactics.

The ad was put out by a the Chambliss campaign, bankrolled by a "special interest" connected to Ralph Reed, and masterminded and supported by Bill Frist.

Now we have a parallel case of a disgusting and dishonest ad, put out by a consortium of donors and political "money-bundlers", created and funded by a group that now consists of one person and an office, funded and masterminded by a group closely connected with both Kerry and Gephardt, Gephardt now endorses Kerry (and instructed many of his caucus leaders to go for Kerry in Iowa should they not be viable in caucus), and was made using money from Toricelli, who is now actively fundraising for Kerry.

It stinks, and on the three threads I have examined dealing with this issue, I have NOT seen a decent explanation other than "kerry didn't know" and "kerry is not responsible for the actions of his supporters"

Bullshit.

Kerry IS responsible for the actions of his staffers, supporters, fundraisers, and etc.

JUST LIKE BUSH is responsible for the actions of Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Cheney and etc.

JUST LIKE DEAN is responsible for the mistakes made by his campaign, campaign managers, staffers, etc.

THE BUCK STOPS AT THE TOP.

Now, DID KERRY KNOW?

[DannyRed]

51. And, apparently,

The Ad ran in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina.

Funny how that works.

[King of New Orleans]

52. The story I read

says that the Osama ad ran in S.Carolina and NH. It says two other ads (one attacking Dean for his NRA endorsements and other attacking Dean for being pro-NAFTA) ran in Iowa.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1963&e=18&u=/ap/20040211/ap_on_el_pr/anti_dean_ads_2&sid=96378798

Since, I wasn't in Iowa could I get some clarification on whether the Osama ad ran in Iowa.

[DannyRed]

53. Now,

I actually think that attacking Dean based on his NRA endorsements and his past support for NAFTA are perfectly fair game, valid issues, and should be brought up by his opponents.

I support Dean, but I AM critical of him where it is required.

However, the Osama ads went beyond the pale, and their sponsors and benefactors and beneficiaries should be called on the carpet for an explanation.

[King of New Orleans]

54. Oh, I don't think the Osama ads

were fair either. I just want to know if they ran in Iowa or not.

[DannyRed]

55. Yes

they did, according to both my friend who were in Iowa (working for Dean AND some working for Edwards)

And according to CNN article linked above...

[DannyRed]

56. I think I should rename

this to

"The thread that dropped like a rock"

Is there a gravity anomaly?

[DFLforever]

57. Kick!