Thank God back in 1947 Harry Truman had the foresight to bomb Stalin's nuke program!

[Bucky]

As we confront the growing menace of Iran's nuclear threat, let us take heart from the glorious example Harry "Kick S" Truman set for us in 1947 when it became clear that extremist nutcase/madman Josef Stalin was developing nuclear weapons. With precision bombing, one city at a time, the unstoppable army air force obliterated Communist Russia's nascent nuclear program and spared the world from certain nuclear confrontation.

Later that month, Omar Bradley led triumphant American tanks rolling up Red Square to raucous cheers and thanks of the liberated Soviet people who, like hopeful people everywhere throughout history, loved the abstract concept of democracy more than the dignity and pride of their own homeland. Can the lessons of history be any more clear? If America acts the world will step out of the way, admiring us for our family values, and pull all their statues down in deference.

Thank you, Harry. Thank you, Omar. Your wisdom continues to inspire us to this day.

[reprehensor]

1. Forgot about that one!

And now the USSR has usable (but radioactive) Toilet Paper for all komrades!

Onward!

[maine_raptor]

2. Operation Dropkick

was the name of the plan. Very nicely detailed in a book by the same name. No joke, That book is out there, might be out of print, but that was a plan developed by the USAF back in the late 40's.

[Bucky]

3. Operation Drop-Kick was the USAF exercise that got out of hand in "Dr Strangelove"

Whatever happened to General Ripper, anyway? Probably serving on the KBR board of directors.

[maine_raptor]

6. Dropkick WAS the actual name of the plan.

And you are somewhat right about General Ripper..........the actual plan was developed by Curtis LeMay just before SAC was formed. It called for less than 50 a-bombs (Hiroshima sized) to be dropped on Soviet cities and military bases over a short (couple of days) period.

[Zero Division]

4. Alas, to mindless hawks every enemy is Nazi Germany and every...

outcome is post-WWII Germany and Japan.

[two gun sid]

5. Excellent post!

[rockymountaindem]

7. That's not such a good analogy

The US was taken very much by surprise when the USSR detonated an atomic bomb in 1949. We had almost no idea their project was that far along. Secondly, precision bombing would have been impossible at the time and thirdly with no aerial or sattelite reconaissance of the Soviet Union at that time, it would have been impossible to pinpoint the Soviets' nuclear facilities. If it were possible, though, it would have been a damn bad idea.

[Bucky]

10. Oh, Rocky, surely you know history repeats itself because no one was listening the first time.

The US was taken very much by surprise when the USSR detonated an atomic bomb in 1949. We had almost no idea their project was that far along.

I think that's what today's neocons are counting on us fearing with Iran. I hope you realize I was being a little silly here.

Secondly, precision bombing would have been impossible at the time and thirdly with no aerial or sattelite reconaissance of the Soviet Union at that time, it would have been impossible to pinpoint the Soviets' nuclear facilities.

Perhaps you missed the meaning of my phrase "With precision bombing, one city at a time."

If it were possible, though, it would have been a damn bad idea.

You, sir, are obviously a communist.

[rockymountaindem]

11. I'm not a communist...

but I do have a cool Russian hat!

I guess I was a little harsh in my comments. I did see what you meant about "precision bombing one city at a time", but in my opinion that isn't what this Iran thing is about. The Iran thing, firstly, may not even be happening at all (a manufactured crisis), although this is unlikely since pretty much everybody who's anybody, including Wesley Clark, is worried about the ramifications of doing anything against Iran. There must be something behind this. Secondly, while the impact of an attack on Iran on our diplomatic and foreign affairs would be disasterous IMHO, the attack itself would be far less severe than what you sarcastically proposed doing to the USSR, 1949 style. As far as the intelligence goes, the United States today has a far, far greater ability to monitor the situation with aircraft and satellites, so that we won't be taken by surprise. Hell, we're so good at that we can even spot hundreds of sights that *might* have WMD, just to be on the safe side :sarcasm:.

In any event, I do not think that an attack on Iran will be necessary to fulfill whatever Bush's little plan is.

[Bucky]

15. I hate disagreeing with Clark (and I'm not sure I am) but you're right about Iran

I just don't think there's anything like a rational, intentional plan in place for attacking Iran, despite what Clark warns and the apparent & vocal majority of DUers seem to think. The consequences of actually bombing Iran would, in fact, be quite devastating to the US. Response one from Iran's military would be to stop entirely the flow of oil coming out the Strait of Hormuz carried by US firms. They have the power to choke the world's oil market more or less at will and doing so with a US public that is already war weary and Bush fatigued would prove surprisingly effective.

Our stationary targets in Iraq are sitting ducks to both Iranian and pro-Iranian Iraqi attacks. They can also easy hit Israel with a wealth of missiles that would make the Hezbullah war look like a frisbee match. A fight with Iran would escalate fast, cross borders quickly, and pretty much unite all of Islam against the United States. Given recent meetings between Hugo Chavez and Iran's leadership, there is also the very real possibility that a Venezuelan oil embargo on the US would play into this mix. Iran's best strategy in stopping US aggression is to make the pampered American consumerocracy feel the pinch as hard and deep as possible.

The damage to our economy, however, would pale in comparison to the damage to our diplomatic capabilities for the next two generations. We could win the shooting match with Iran in the long run, asssuming we had a White House that understands long term management. We don't.

In fact, the negative results of any direct attack on Iran by either the US or Israel, a distinction which Iran's leaders will not scruple about, would be so vast and so immediate and so certain... that I'm 99% certain that they couldn't possibly consider actually planning to attack Iran. I say "99% certain" because frankly they are idiots. But even an idiot can avoid obvious blunders.

What I think the deal with the consulate raid and the war ship deployments and the troop escalation surge augmentation (like they're gettin fake boobs) is just good ol' fashioned saber rattling. They're acting like they really could and would like to hit Iran to try and wring some, any, concessions out of the Council of Experts (or whatever they call Iran's ruling council). Up to now Iran has responded by sending out their trained monkey Abedinejad, to flip us off every couple of weeks or so. The more intense sabre rattling from Washington now is just upping the ante--but it's still a bluff.

That said, sabre rattling on this scale can easily get out of hand. It is inherently escalatory to the tensions. It's almost a game of chicken and carries an increased threat of accellerating into an actual shooting war--not one of design as DUers claim, but one of accident and bravado breaking off the leash.

Be clear about this, the most surgical of strikes can and probably would trigger just such an escalation. Iran knows that the US has the upper hand in these things. They would have to move fast to make us hurt economically. So while Bush and his babysitters may not be planning a direct hit on Iran, they may be laying the groundwork for it nonetheless. These are not people who know their own limitations; if the shooting starts, the world will blame us.

[autorank]

8. First rate K&R!!!!

Is Lincoln rolling?

[Fovea]

9. And we believe our children's children's children

will thank us, once they can see their shadows outside again. And of course, when they can actually play outside again.

A damn shame we discovered critical mass before we discovered nuclear winter. Who knew that incinerating 50 cities would be a bad thing?

[gordianot]

12. Republican Neo- Cons have wanted Limited Nuclear war for a long time.

They are obviously still working on it today.

see link: ttp://www.freezerbox.com/archive/article.php?id=41

Lest We Forget: Neo-conservatives and Republican Foreign Policy, 1976-2000
BY ALEXANDER ZAITCHIK
04.06.2000 | POLITICS

One cold winter day in 1981, a high ranking Pentagon official in the Reagan Administration was called before a Senate subcommittee to explain some comments he had made in an interview with Los Angeles Times reporter Robert Scheer. In the interview, Thomas K. Jones asserted that the United States would recover from a full-scale nuclear war in two to four years. He also advocated a civil defense program centered around the digging of holes to be covered with doors and a layer of dirt. "If there are enough shovels around," he said, "everybody's going to make it."

[Poll_Blind]

13. Indeed! K&R! n/t

PB

[Poll_Blind]

14. Kick! n/t

PB