Uhm... Ken Salazar (D-CO) Just said "Tar Baby." Twice.

[Ian David]

He described the war in Iraq as a "Tar Baby."



http://www.blackcommentator.com/tar_baby.html


http://www.mythfolklore.net/3043mythfolklore/reading/remus/images/1950tarbaby.htm


Wed-Thurs May 17-18, 2006 Volume 1766 - Tony's Tar Baby

http://www.bartcop.com/1766.htm

[rockymountaindem]

1. Where? n.t.

[goclark]

2. My, my ~ out of touch in 2007 nt

[MnFats]

3. at one time that was not considered racist. or at least not inherently racisst.

the middle photo, the lawn jockey, is another matter. that one belongs in the museum of racist images.
oddly, there are people who consider that shit collectible.

[DURHAM D]

13. Whoopie Goldberg has a collection of

black memorabilia. Do you think that is wrong?

[dipsydoodle]

18. Same applied to Gollywog in the UK

Fell into disuse in the eighties during the same period that manhole covers were re-termed peoplehole covers to help avoid sexist phrases. Now softened to Golly - one of Rupert the Bear's friends in childrens books.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20061106/ai_n16825123

[paulk]

4. oh, boy - another PC thread

:popcorn:

[dipsydoodle]

21. Broadly speaking

PC is in the mind. Apart from that it's an Americanism which got exported to the UK. Now generally despised/laughed at ,here in the UK, as being the world gone mad.

edit-missing word

[Fovea]

5. Was he referring to a specific person?

I need more context to classify this comment.

[Igel]

14. Why would it refer to a person?

In the African-American folk narrative it didn't refer to a person.

If he used it to refer to a person, it was probably racist (although I could probably produce a scenario or two where it wouldn't have racist intent). Otherwise, not.

[Fovea]

46. That is why I asked.

The original post seemed to suggest that Salizar may have used it as a racial slur, and I was curious whether that was the case.

[snowbear]

6. I remember when Romney used that term and took flak..

Ian.. where did Salazar use it?

You didn't tell us much..

[Ian David]

17. He used it to describe the situation in Iraq. Just like Tony Snow did. n/t

[ima_sinnic]

7. Tar Baby is not racist. It was a sticky doll that trapped Brer Rabbit

so it is a "sticky situation." It has only been made "racist" by those who want it to be.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_baby

[Ian David]

10. Yes, it's from Brer Rabbit, but it's also racist, too.

Just like "Mammy" is a song by Al Jolson, which is also racist.



What makes "Tar Baby" racist is that it's supposed to look like a black child.

[Bucky]

16. Good point! Because, as you point out, anything that looks like a black child is racist.

e.g. Gary Coleman

[Ian David]

20. Well, at first I was going to tell you off for saying that...

but then my inner-Emanuel-Lewis got the better of me.

Thank you for being funny enough about insulting me that I didn't get mad.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. So what you're saying is...

Al Jolson in blackface isn't racist?

[Bucky]

47. The Jolson shtick is categorically racist. Salazar's meaning of "tar baby" is not.

[rsr1771]

12. it's not a racist term...

but some people are just dying to be offended. I thought it was stupid when Tony Snow took abuse for using the term. A tar baby is a metaphor. And I agree that the term is appropriate to describe Iraq.

[Robson]

39. It's definitely not racist as used

Saying that Iraq is a "tar baby" is fully appropriate, and actually is an understatement as describing a "sticky situation". Its use in that context has no racial connotation whatsoever. Words and phrases have meanings and inferences based upon how they are used. Or has that premise now been lost in this era of over the top sensitivity to any hint of political incorrectness?

[Lost-in-FL]

8. First, the discovered Obama-Madrassas link by the Hillary

campaign story at Faux News.

Then, the Congressional Black Caucus lame incident (not letting a white Congressman join the organization) and now this???

Oh boy, the GOP propaganda machine is working overtime, trying to portray Democrats as racists.

[Ian David]

24. I don't know if Salazar is a racist or not. But he HAS seen others get chastised for saying it...

so why, with all the words in the English language available to him, would he choose to say "tar baby" anyway?

[El Supremo]

28. I don't know if Salazar is a Democrat or not.

He just loves his friend Alberto Gonzales. And his explanation in this same speech for not pulling out of Iraq was unconvincing.

He's not a racist. But there are very few blacks where he grew up.

[Ian David]

35. If he voted to ban gay marriage, then he's a racist. n/t

[fujiyama]

42. If he voted against gay marriage

he's certainly bigoted, possibly homophobic.

But as far as I know, race doesn't refer to sexual orientation.

[Lost-in-FL]

40. Don't get me wrong...

I DO AGREE with you 100%, why use that phrase? Snow Blow used it and was slammed by Democrats. Even Randi Rhodes used the "hug the tar baby" sound bit more than once in her show.

My concern is that all of the sudden there are leaks about news (in less than a week) where Democratic politicians are associated with "racism". Makes me think that the GOP is at full speed and of course, comments like those of Salazar won't help. Since the GOP is at the bottom, it seem they want to drag the Democratic party with them.

[arewenotdemo]

41. Salazar ain't the brightest bulb in the blue box

[onenote]

43. yeah, and that awful Molly Ivins -- a wordsmith no less

let's beat her up too. http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/1/2001/650

:sarcasm:

[Ninja Jordan]

9. One of the few hispanic U.S. Senators hates blacks. Yeah, that's it!

[Ian David]

15. Also one of the "Gang of 14." n/t

[Ninja Jordan]

19. That's equally relevant!

:crazy:

[Ian David]

22. I'm not saying he hates Blacks. But I'm sure plenty of Hispanics do.

Being a member of a Minority doesn't mean you're automatically free of bigotry against other minorities.

How did Mr. Salazar vote on DOMA or the anti-gay marriage amendment?

[Bucky]

11. And he's right. It's a big damn tar baby.

Let's not be so niggardly with our vocabulary that we start to forget what words really mean.

[Ian David]

23. Regardless of whether he is a racist or if saying "tar baby" is racist, the fact is...

that those educated people have a whole host of vocabulary at their disposal with which to express themselves.

I find it odd that Salazar would pull a "tar baby" out of his ass, knowing full well how many times others have caught flack for it.

BTW...

Have you seen any politician use the word "niggardly" lately, since the last incident?

It's a perfectly innocent word, but it's often perceived otherwise. Why would they take the risk?

[Igel]

27. Personally, I can't really think of a phrase that

sums up what 'tar baby' means. It's a nice addition from African-American tradition. I have a reasonably large vocabulary, but that phrase has been bandied about a bit, and it fits.

"Niggardly" wasn't much used before it was misunderstood by somebody who proceeded to proudly show his ignorance to the world. The only reason to not use it--apart from its rareness on independent grounds--is because you fear what ignorant people think. One could say that they're been held captive to the uneducated, but politicians have generally been in that state for many a year.

[Lerkfish]

25. if he was going antiquated, he should have said "treacle well"

:)

(lets see if anyone gets the reference)

[Igel]

30. With Google, to

even hint there's a reference is to guarantee that people get it.

(I didn't ... until Google nicely directed me to appropriate Alice in Wonderland pages, and from there to the real-life 'treacle well' or 'all-cure well' that Carroll had Doormouse cleverly pun on.)

But 'tar baby' isn't that antiquated. The tales were still read in Baltimore County (Maryland) elementary schools in the late '60s, when I was a kid, and the phrase has been used in non-folkloric discourse a bit.

[Dr Fate]

31. Is that the point of PC- to make sure no one knows what anyone is talking about?

;)

Having said that, I will agree that he should not have said the word- but only because it takes the focus off the issues- not b/c I really think he is racist.

[Dr Fate]

26. Perhaps he should be black-balled for his niggardly use of folk venacular.

But seriously-I dont think he was being racist- and Iraq IS a tar-baby in the orginal sense of the word.

I will agree that he should not say it again just so we can get this off the table and to focus on the debate.

Thankfully us regular old people can still use the english language in context without being accused of racism- right?

[Rageneau]

29. The term 'Tar Baby' has NOTHING to do with race.

The only reason anyone would mistakenly associate the term 'tar baby' with black people is because the fellow who supposedly told the Tar Baby tale, Uncle Remus, was himself a black slave. (Like Aesop.) Therefore, it MIGHT be racist to call someone an "Uncle Remus," but it cannot be racist to call a person the name of one of Remus's (JC Harris's) characters, none of whom HAD any race.

Is calling someone a Brer Rabbit racist? How about a Brer Fox or Brer Bear? If those names aren't racist, then neither is Tar Baby, which after all was nothing more than an effigy of a baby made from tar.

The Uncle Remus stories are too precious a part of our literary heritage, and the term "Tar Baby" is too useful as a methaphor, to be sacraficed on the altar of fanatical political correctness.

Lighten up, people.

[Igel]

33. But in the mouths of some people

it apparently is a racist epithet. At least numerous DUers have said so; I could see how that would be the case, but have never actually heard it used that way myself.

I figure it's like "li'l Sambo". I have heard that incorrectly used to belittle African-Americans, so I think it's properly taken to be a racist epithet in some contexts. But I still know that Sambo wasn't African(-American) at all, but South Indian, and that the little racists assuming the story referred to blacks were as ignorant as anti-racist advocates assuming every mention of Sambo obligatorily is a racist reference to blacks.

[Hoosier Dem]

38. You are right

The phrase "Tar Baby" simply refers to something that, once you're stuck to it, you can't get out of. Sounds like Iraq to a T.

I agree that the PC fanatics are just going too far.

[MrSlayer]

32. So? It's an apt description.

It might be something to talk about if he had referred to Condi or Obama that way.

[Ian David]

36. I would have said quagmire or boondoggle or big muddy or cluster-fuck.

Actually, yeah.

I would have said "cluster-fuck."

This is why I am not in politics.

Well, it's not the only reason.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Has he got a history of race baiting?

Like Mitt Romney?

If not, then I assume he meant the literary meaning.

[fujiyama]

44. Salazar is a conservative Dem

but there is no evidence he is a racist.

"Tar Baby" has two separate connotations and really is dependent on context. It's not as though he called SOMEONE a tar baby.

Iraq is a tar baby in the literary sense.

But then again, as a politician he should probably realize that some words and phrases are easily misinterpreted.

[Crunchy Frog]

45. When you take away the racist connotations, it is an apt metaphor.

Nevertheless, Salazar got his first and only vote from me in '04 (the general election not the primary). There's simply too many bridges burned for me to ever support him again, and if he's to get re-elected, it will have to be with the Repug voters who will replace the liberal Dems that he has alienated.

I'm certain that I'm not the only Colorado voter who feels that way.