Transcript: Kerry on gay marriage, NPR, February 9.

[Bertha Venation]

Offered without comment (for now) is the transcript of the two-minute segment of Melissa Block's interview w/ Senator Kerry last night in which she questioned him about gay marriage.

Block:
I'd like to turn to the subject of gay marriage. The highest court in your home state of Massachusetts has said that same-sex couples do have the right to marry. I know you've said that you oppose gay marriage, but would you support a constitutional amendment that would define marriage as a heterosexual union?

Kerry:
Well, it depends entirely on the language of whether it permits civil union and partnership or not. I'm for civil union, I'm for partnership rights. I think what ought to condition this debate is not the term "marriage" as much as the rights that people are afforded. Obviously under the Constitution of the United States you need equal protection under the law, and I think equal protection means the rights that go with it. I think the word "marriage" kinda gets in the way of the whole debate, to be honest with you, because marriage to many people is obviously what is sanctified by a church -- it's sacramental -- or by a synagogue or a by a mosque or by whatever religious connotation it has, and clearly there's a separation of church and state here.

Block:
And why would you support, say, civil unions or what you call "partnership rights" and not gay marriage?

Kerry:
Because I think marriage is a separate institution. I think marriage is under the church between a man and a woman and I think there's a separate meaning to it, that's why.

Block:
Even for marriages that aren't conducted in a house of worship?

Kerry:
Correct, even those that aren't there's still two meanings. I mean, the state picked up the concept afterwards; it's a latecomer to the state. You know, for those who have separate beliefs there ought to be a way here to be able to deal with it, but what you call something is not that critical

Block:
You were one of fourteen senators who voted against the Defense of Marriage Act back in 1996 that was signed by President Clinton.

Kerry:
Correct.

Block:
Why did you oppose that?

Kerry:
I opposed it because I thought it was gay bashing on the floor of the United States Senate. It was one of those examples of ideological Republicans trying to drive wedges into the electorate of America and I objected to the Senate being used for that -- even as I still said at the time I don't personally support marriage as we understand it within the context of religion.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

1. My NPR station is currently on pledge

I called after the hatchet job above. I was asked what I was pledging. I said "squat until you quit doing Karl Rove's dirty work for him." I told them that, even as a gay man, I COULD NOT CARE LESS about gay marriage wen compared to issues like an illegal war, a busted economy, rampant corruption and creeping fascism. I told them thast until NPR delivered serious journalism and tough questions of the administration on these issues they could ask Unca Karl for pledge money, not me.

[QuidditchFan]

2. Thank you for the context...

His statements sound a lot different and much more reasonable in the whole context of the interview. Thank you.

[HFishbine]

3. Kerry supporter, sincere question

According to the candidate profiles on Lesbian Life, Kerry has not made it clear if he will support a bill to end workplace discrimination based on gender identity and expression.

Is he still undecided?

[blm]

6. Kerry was the first Senator to OFFER an antidiscrimination bill in 85.

Sounds to me like Lesbian Life does not have a comprehensive view of Kerry's record.

[Bertha Venation]

9. Kerry supports ENDA

Human Rights Campaign - Congressional Scorecards back to the 103rd Congress.

Kerry scores 100% on HRC's Congressional Scorecard -- all the way back to the 104th Congress (their site shows only the House votes in the 103rd Congress; the 103rd is when they started tracking).

That Kerry scores 100% means that he supports every measure HRC tracks in Congress. In other words:

Kerry supports ENDA.

[HFishbine]

18. That link is broken

But Lesbian Life quotes him as saying:

"I oppose discrimination of all kinds and my office policy prohibits discrimination in the workplace based on gender identity and expression. I believe we should focus efforts on getting ENDA passed and signed into law, and I am concerned that adding gender identity and expression to the ENDA legislation is likely to significantly hinder that effort."

http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/workschool/p/JohnKerry.htm

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. He is a skilled speaker and a skilled politician, however this issue

is not one that even the most skilled politician can dance around and please both sides.

The recent decision of the Massachussets Supreme Court said it much better than I can, and sadly for the politicians, who cannot be blamed for wishing to avoid the question, the best they can hope to do is fool enough people enough of the time until the Amendment comes to the floor.

Each elected representative will have to put aside the ornate phrases, masterpieces though they may be, and stick with plain old yea or nay to the establishment of a separate legal status for some people according to the doctrine of a particular religious sect, or equal protection under the law in a secular state.

[incapsulated]

5. I don't understand

Maybe I'm slow, but please explain to me how Kerry can support the idea of a Constitutional Amendment defining marriage, "period"?

This is a no-brainer.

He doesn't have to support "gay marriage" personally.

But he doesn't have to give the idea of amending the constitution over something as transparently anti-gay as this legitimacy by even considering it.

This is ridiculous.

Just say no to a Constitutional Amendment. Most people don't care about this, not when it comes to an amending the constitution, it's pure right wing garbage. You won't lose any votes John, but you could lose a lot of Democrat's respect.

[library_max]

7. Thank you for presenting the complete transcript.

I think it clears up a lot of the unfair interpretations some posters have been reading into Kerry's statements.

We really need to get off this issue. It's 100% wedge-issue politics. We need to get back to the issues that help us against Bush - jobs, the war, the deficit, etc. The longer we dwell on this, the better for the Republicans. Remember, politicians do not necessarily govern the way they campaigned. The fact that Kerry hasn't come out foursquare against a marriage amendment in the campaign doesn't mean that he won't oppose such an amendment if elected president. His record (voted against DOMA, HRC rating 100%) indicates that he will.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. Kerry truly trying to be a uniter and not a divider here

unlike others politicians. His DOMA response is to be commended.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. He is acknowledging political reality with this statement

The political reality is that Republicans have not only played the gay bash card but the religion card. Just the other day, a bishop claimed he would deny communion on the basis of legislators going against the church's dogma. Kerry was specifically targetted as was Kennedy.

By speaking in CAREFUL terms about the religious aspect that the terms "marriage" invokes (even though to be sure, matrimony is the religious term, marriage is not), he has demonstrated an OBSERVANCE of religious beliefs while, likewise, stating that religious beliefs are no reason to discriminate NOR to deny equal protection.

I'm gay. I realize many gay people disagree with me on this point, but frankly, we have a huge hot button issue with the ultra regligious. Republicans handily took the South in 00 one church at a time which is where our losses in Arkansas and Tennessee can be easily traced.

[Bertha Venation]

11. I think I'm with you but I'm not sure....

not sure I follow what you're saying.

Once I transcribed the interview, I had a MUCH better understanding of what Kerry was saying, and I found myself agreeing w/ much of it, especially this: the word "marriage" is a problem.

I'm not willing to see this issue disappear completely, but I am willing to hear our candidate address "civil unions" or "partnership rights" -- as long as they are the perfect equivalent of the "Heterosexual 1,049" -- in debates with * and in stump speeches. I'm willing, IOW, to compromise....

Christ, what am I saying.

I'm so tired.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. Of Kerry and Dean...(I am not sure of the others)

They both leave the civil union aspect to the states to deal with which I do find problematic since equal protection is a constitutional issue.

My response is simply to his verbiage and I agree with the 1,049 comment as well. I think he covered that. In essence, the response he made underscores a bigger Kerry problem for me which is talking like a lawyer. He essentially said if broken down "Sure I'm for an amendment as long as it's constitutional" then states exactly why it couldn't be constitutional.

[dsc]

19. that is flat out false

and in both cases. Dean said on Larry King and MTP that he would support a federal law requiring that states recognize gay relationships. What he would leave up to the states is the scheme they would use. I think Kerry's position is similar.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. You are correct.

I looked it up and was going to return to this post. The point of looking it up being that without a federal law or ruling the unions are not recognized nationally.

[DuctapeFatwa]

13. He definitely says something there for everybody, and it is a VERY

skillful manipulation of language, which is indeed important for a politician who may have cause to make some very unpalatable things sound better.

[killbotfactory]

14. The right answer is: No, amending the constitution is too extreme

[IndianaGreen]

15. Kerry does not understand, or is being cute on equality under the law

A marriage license is a civil document issued by the State, not the Church. It is just as wrong for a state to deny a marriage license on the basis of sexual orientation as it was to deny it on the basis of race.

If Kerry doesn't understand that, then he is no better than those that are quite content to sacrifice civil rights on the altar of political expediency.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. I think he understands it just fine and explained it well

I don't know whether you are straight or gay, but as a gay person if my choices are to have the electorate take extreme means to further marginalize me and discriminate against me versus a skilled politician who has ALWAYS voted in my favor extend the same rights and simply call it something else, I'll take the latter.

[dsc]

20. that isn't what he said

It isn't like he is requiring that amendment to require civil unions. He said it had to merely accept them.

[DuctapeFatwa]

17. Why should he be better? Politics is not about integrity.

It's about winning.

If I can convince you to sacrifice not only your rights, but your own kid's inheritance so I can win, I'm a damn good politician!

And you'll probably even let me use your kid for cannon fodder, before he becomes a penniless one-legged orphan whose fundie grandparents say he can't live in the house you built.

That's talent. That's what we mean when we say "electability."