Bartcop on Americans for Growth / Osama Ad

[NashVegas]

http://www.bartcop.com/020804burns.htm

Meanwhile, the filing I belatedly saw, dated January 30, shows that "Americans for Jobs” received $663,000 from 26 donors. There is nothing
“progressive” about the over-all profile. Two-thirds of the donations came from corporate sources; two executives gave $100,000 each, and
another gave $50,000. About $80,000 came from attorneys. The Torricelli for Senate Committee also kicked in $50,000. Six labor unions gave the other $200,000; this is probably one of the few times that the international laborers’ union and Loral tobacco have donated to the same entity.

[progressivebydesign]

1. Thanks! I was just asking what had happened to this..

Seems no one really seems to care about who blindsided Dean in Iowa, anymore. I care. It's disgusting. Are these also the people that lied about Dean wanting to end Social Security and Medicare? That really killed him in Iowa. With pigs willing to donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to take down a good man, then our democracy is terminal. We let big money steal every last shred of decency our democracy had. Abstaining from voting this year is not the answer (Bush needs to go), but something has to be done. I want my country back!! Why do you think Howard Dean was such a resounding success with individual donors? The very system he rails against has tried to kill his candidacy.. and still does.

[Jerseycoa]

2. The Torricelli for Senate Committee also kicked in $50,000.

The Garden State represented. :evilfrown:

[maddezmom]

3. and who is he representing?

this isn't good news for the front runner. :(

[Duder]

4. So now we know...

NJ Senator Raises Money for Kerry

WASHINGTON (AP) - February 6, 2004 — 'Presidential Democratic hopeful John Kerry is letting former Sen. Robert Torricelli raise money for him less than two years after the Senate formally rebuked Torricelli for his actions with a political donor.
Torricelli, whose rising political career collapsed in 2002 after his fund raising became the subject of criminal and Senate investigations, said Friday he is not seeking a formal position in Kerry's campaign but has raised money for it.

"I have asked people to send in checks," Torricelli said in a phone interview. "I have raised some money for John. I have known him for many years and probably have contributed to most members of the Democratic caucus."

"I don't have role in the campaign nor am I seeking one," Torricelli said, saying he attended a meeting of fund-raisers with Kerry Thursday night in New York. "I am happily retired from political campaigns. But I certainly support his candidacy."

"John did a briefing last night with 150 people, made a brief appearance and thanked me for the help," he said. Torricelli said he did not know how much money in all he raised for Kerry because checks were still flowing in.'

...

[clarknyc]

7. This really stinks.

Kerry will do the right thing and condemn Torricelli's involvement, right? Right?

[ShimokitaJer]

14. probably not "condemn" so much as "deny" would be my guess

After all, Kerry can't take responsibility for the activities of any overzealous volunteers/fundraisers/personal friends who just happen to be working on his campaign. And it would be ludicrous to even suggest that Kerry benefitted in any way from the ads attacking Dean. Much as the Bush administration can not be held responsible for the actions of those who work for them, Kerry must be absolved from any crimes for which there is no specific quote from Kerry directly admitting fault.

[Eloriel]

30. Wha??

And it would be ludicrous to even suggest that Kerry benefitted in any way from the ads attacking Dean.

You're kidding, right?

Dean's favorables didn't go down? Kerry's didn't go up? Kerry didn't win Iowa (with a little help from some of his other "friends" and accomplices)?

It's one thing to claim that Kerry probably didn't know anything about this, but to claim he didn't benefit is -- well, ludicrous, to use your word.

[ShimokitaJer]

33. Guess I should have engaged my <sarcasm> mode more explicitly

Of course I agree with you. I was attempting (apparently unsuccessfully) to sarcastically mock the Kerry apologists' denials. I'll try to add a smiley to make that more clear. Sorry about the confusion.

On edit: Oops, no can do. The time limit's expired. Oh well, I guess I'll just take this as evidence you've got to be careful about what you think you're conveying in written discourse.

[Walt Starr]

10. OOPS! This may eb the kciker that will keep me from holding my nose

on November 2nd.

This dosn't look good for Kerry. As it stands right now, I cannot vote for the man.

[KaraokeKarlton]

22. That does it for me. If Kerry is the nominee I will vote against him

n/t

[ozone_man]

36. All right KK.

If we didn't have a good enough reason to vote against Kerry, this sure looks like a good one. It's what we expected when the ad came out but couldn't prove. BTW, thanks for posting this in the other thread. Kerry is such a ... can't say it here :grr:

[blm]

25. Blame by association, AGAIN? Guess what? They're all Democrats.

Some of the posts here are spinning themselves silly.

If you recall, even some of the people who gave money to the group who ran the ad DENOUNCED the ad. The ad was made after the money was raised. Hey many of you thought Trippi made crappy ads but they were made AFTER you sent the money, weren't they?

Kerry's campaign DENOUNCED the content of the ad when it first came out, btw. Don't let facts get in the way of the hysteria on this thread, though.

[Duder]

28. Kerry's a phony

Let's not forget that this same group had Dean nra ads that coincided with Kerry's anti-nra attacks.

"John did a briefing last night with 150 people, made a brief appearance and thanked me for the help," he said.

All Democrats aren't the same. Kerry & Terry can kiss this swing state voter's ass.

[Eloriel]

31. Denounced the ad?

In my recollection, it was pretty damned tepid. In fact, I didn't consider it a denunciation at all -- more like a dissociation. Wish someone could come up with a link. I'd like a chance to revisit this "denunciation."

[charlie]

5. Well, isn't this rich...

Mr Kenneth A. Gross of Skadden Arps is a trustee of the Campaign Finance Institute. His name is on the staff letterhead of this document petitioning the IRS to require more timely disclosure of campaign finance information:

While we strongly support revision of Form 990 as a significant step toward fuller disclosure, and articulate our rationale below, we wish to point out that the suggested changes do not go far enough. For campaign finance disclosure to be effective it must be timely. Annual reports that appear months or even years after an election are of limited use to voters. More frequent reporting, along the lines of Federal Election Commission (FEC) and IRS Section 527 disclosure requirements, is necessary. In addition, 990 and other useful reports should be available on-line in a searchable and downloadable database so that the public can quickly and easily find relevant information.

http://www.cfinst.org/disclosure/pdf/IRS_Comments_012803.pdf
(Note: Acrobat document)

...and this same guy is playing rope-a-dope with the article's author:

Seven Democratic primaries and three caucuses have taken place between the filing deadline and this column; the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary took place before the filing deadline; Tennessee and Virginia hold primaries tomorrow.

[ShimokitaJer]

6. Let me guess the Kerry supporters' response

I wonder, will they go with "There's no direct proof that Kerry himself authorized the ad" or will they try for the "Well, Dean did things just as bad (though I'm not going to tell you what they were right now) so it's okay." Personally, I think they've gotten to the point where they just don't give a shit anymore and will respond to everything with the mantra "It's just politics. There's nothing slimy about it."

Isn't it funny how "Mr. Electable" John Kerry is the one who has to stoop to this kind of crap to get the nomination. Not "funny ha ha" so much as "funny I thought we were trying to get a lying sack of shit OUT of office."

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. Dean is the one who said these things and needed to defend himself

Let's pretend for a moment that Dean had won the primary and as nominee came under the exact same attack as in the ad.
If Dean couldn't survive these attacks now then he hadn't a chance in the fall. It was his task to defend himself successfully.

I don't know who ran the ads, but it was not inappropriate.

[ShimokitaJer]

11. And we have a winner: all three excuses used!

Translation for the non-Kerry literate:

"Dean is the one who said these things" = as predicted, no specifics regarding what "these things" are, nor any indication of how this absolves Kerry from involvement

"I don't know who ran the ads" = you can't "prove" Kerry is responsible, despite the mounting evidence

"it was not inappropriate" = ads like this against a fellow Democratic candidate are just fine and dandy as long as Kerry is the one who does it

[NewYorkerfromMass]

13. You don't seem to understand. National defense was a litmus test this year

It is no coincidence that the 3 top remaining candidates all have good credentials in that regard. Kerry/Edwards/Clark.

[clarknyc]

16. Maybe I'm missing something.

What are Edwards national defense credentials? Honestly, I don't know...

[ShimokitaJer]

17. So, let me get this straight.

Because national defense is important this year, it is perfectly fine for a Democratic candidate to support ads suggesting another Democratic candidate's nomination would result in more attacks by Osama bin Laden... and that he would do this while insisting that the party stand united against GWB.

You're right... I don't understand at all. Please explain to me why this is fine in your world, be that NY or Mass.

[HFishbine]

20. And that

is what we are supposed to unite behind and sanction in the name of ABB.

[progressivebydesign]

39. Let's not forget the ads claiming Dean would end Medicare & Soc. Security.

As long as they're scaring people in Iowa. Why not go full tilt? Those ads were a BIG reason Dean fell in Iowa. I still have to pinch myself to make sure I"m really awake when I read people on DU defending an ad like this..

[HFishbine]

19. Top three?

A genuine list of the top three would acknowledge that Dean is currently 2nd.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/scorecard/index.html

[clarknyc]

15. That was too easy!

Kerry really should release a statement condemning any fundraiser involvement in financing that ad. How does he expect to get Dean supporters on board if he doesn't? I mean, if he's the nominee of course...

[progressivebydesign]

37. Help me...

Did I just read that this ad was a good thing, because it's a test to see if Dean can take the heat if he got the nod? It's his "task" to defend himself successfully? That is a very interesting take on it.. to say the least. So, if a woman is jumped from behind by an assailant, is it her "task" to defend herself successfully? The analogy is very similar. She did not ask to be attacked, the attack was not fair, and it was made by an unknown.. shadowy figure, and both attacks were meant to do harm. How is it okay for someone to use the most despicable character in current international affairs, to smear a good man? How is that okay?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

40. Would this ad have worked against Clark or Kerry or Edwards?

and the analogy is not similar.

[chocolateeater]

42. Of course it would,

this type of ad worked against Max Cleland, who lost both of his legs and one arm on a battlefield in Vietnam. What makes you think it wouldn't work against Clark, Edwards, or Kerry?

[lastliberalintexas]

44. You're being waaay too logical there

Kerry is the ONLY candidate that the RW can't attack on ANYthing. You need to get with the program! :-)

[chocolateeater]

48. OK. I am getting sleepy...I am getting sleepy...I am getting sleepy.....

:7

[progressivebydesign]

51. Thank you Mflorence.. brilliant answer.

You're completely right. This ad would have worked on anyone. It has no basis in fact, that's why they work so well. It's all about the image. It's a deplorable ad. I do wonder how people who fund and create these ads see themselves any differently than Karl Rove. The master of smear.

[chocolateeater]

60. You're welcome

and thank you. I think some people need to realize that just because someone is a Democrat, doesn't make the slimy Rovian tactics he/she uses any nicer or cleaner.

[HFishbine]

8. Funny

That the group would say they couldn't file their report electronically because of a lack of a PIN number. Somehow, they managed to file their organizational report electronically in November.

http://forms.irs.gov/politicalOrgsSearch/search/Print.action?formId=10732&formType=E71

[slinkerwink]

12. this is WHY I cannot vote for Kerry

[blm]

26. Where's the proof?

Present it.

[mrgorth]

18. Oh god!

[Nazgul35]

21. kick...

for those ignoring this...

[w4rma]

23. The Kerry/Gephardt smear machine. (n/t)

[blm]

24. How does this impugn Kerry? Democrats generally have some association with

each other most of the time.

There are NO direct connections revealed here. Just more ASSUMPTIONS based on degrees of separation, as usual.

[janx]

27. Who, ultimately, is behind this? Do we know yet?

?

Somebody organized this thing and arranged for the ad.

[w4rma]

29. So Torricelli and Gephardt support Kerry now. (n/t)

[RetroLounge]

32. So much the ABB bullshit...

Kerry can choke on his mortgage for all I care...

[blm]

34. They're also connected to Gore & Harkin. Anyone believe in fairness here?

.

[ibegurpard]

35. Torricelli is raising money for Kerry in NJ. That fact was discussed

here at some length yesterday. Now it becomes known that Torricelli was also helping to fund that ad. At best it's a coincidence that should cause Kerry to immediately disavow himself from Torricelli (why he'd be associating with him in the first place is questionable).

[Sly Kal]

They are not

They are connected to the Kerry campaign at this time. What associations people might have had in the past are irrelevant.

[Sly Kal]

45. They are not

They are connected to the Kerry campaign at this time. What associations people might have had in the past are irrelevant.

[NashVegas]

38. What I'd Like to Know:

Which labor unions, what did they think they were buying, and for whom?

[ibegurpard]

41. kick

eom

[Redneck Socialist]

43. Help

Anyone know where or how I can get a full list of these guys donors?

(Yes I already tried google.)

[Duder]

46. Try this...

Kenneth A. Gross, a partner in law firm Skadden, Arps, who has been with ``Americans for Jobs. etc." from its beginning.

Skadden, Arps et al
$99,800

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/contrib.asp?id=N00000245&cycle=2004

[Redneck Socialist]

49. Thanks

but I didn't see "Americans for Jobs, etc. listed there.

[MoonAndSun]

47. Kerry needs to make a statement about the Toricelli link....

has anyone seen any statement from Toricelli himself? The Democratic leadership needs to find out what happened with this group and how they helped fund the Osama ads in IA.

And no obsfucation from Kerry, either he did or did not know what Toricelli's group was doing. And and quick condemnation if he did not know about it, and if he did, he needs to admit it and face the consequences.

[NashVegas]

50. Okay, I Got the Union Info

Directly from the article's author:

International Longshoremen's, $50K. Boilermakers, $5K. Laborers, $50K.
Ironworkers, $25K. Transport Workers, $20K. Machinists, $50K.


Longshoremen (Open Secrets 2004)

Presidential Candidate Total Contribs
Gephardt, Richard A (D) $5,000


2002 & 2000:

Torricelli, Robert G (D-NJ) $2,000 (one of the lesser recipients)


Boilermakers: (2004)

Presidential Candidate Total Contribs
Gephardt, Richard A (D) $5,000


Laborers (2004)

Presidential Candidate Total Contribs
Gephardt, Richard A (D) $5,000

Ironworkers (2004)

Presidential Candidate Total Contribs
Gephardt, Richard A (D) $5,000


Transport workers (2004)

Presidential Candidate Total Contribs
Gephardt, Richard A (D) $5,000


Machinists: (2004)

Presidential Candidate Total Contribs
Gephardt, Richard A (D) $5,000
Kucinich, Dennis J (D) $5,000

total to Gep - 25k
total to Kucinich - 5k

===

Isn't it just freaking nuts that they donated so little to the campaigns outright and 200 freaking k dollars to Club for Growth to do the hitting for them?

[mitchum]

52. Interesting to see all of the variations of "That does it! I will never..

vote for Kerry!" coming from plenty of people who have droned on and on and on about how they would never support him. Look, we heard you the first fifty times.

I see no proof that the Kerry campaign is behind this. And the truth be told; I really wouldn't be bothered if they were. Politics is a very dirty business. I want a candidate who will play to win.

[funky_bug]

54. Politics is a very dirty business?

That's the excuse you give for this? Hello???? This is the man who is poised to take the White House! I don't want a dirty politician in the White House for FOUR MORE YEARS! This term was enough, thank you very much.

My husband has been trying very very hard to convince me to support Kerry if he wins the nom. I'm tellin' ya, I've been ABB since the beginning, but I seriously doubt I can hold my nose and vote for Kerry if he's just another player in the "dirty business" of politics.

[mitchum]

57. I believe that you are confusing the Kerry campaign with me

I said that I would not be bothered by this. There are a number of things that don't bother me which you would find appalling. That's me, not the Kerry campaign

[wabeewoman]

55. "you wouldn't be bothered?"

I think that might be the difference between Kerry and Dean supporters right there. I want a president who will change the tone and direction of this country-not win like the last one did by playing dirty! I am not commenting on whether this is true or not as I don't know. But I really think saying its ok for a front runner who got to be in front because he played dirty is wrong.
edit to correct spelling

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[killbotfactory]

53. It must be nice to have such honorable people working for Kerry

[mitchum]

56. I'm working for Kerry? Where's my check?

If I remember correctly you used to have that stupid avater of Jack Nicholson. So I should assume that you are a balding, alcoholic, ax murderer.? Guilt by association and all...

Thanks for the personal attack, buddy.

[killbotfactory]

59. What the fuck are you talking about?

I'm talking about Toricelli, who is a bundler for Kerry and contributed to this group.

[mitchum]

61. Oh man, I am honestly sorry

I thought that you were piling on the "evil" mitchum. Your post was right after those. My sincere apologies.

Honestly, I'm not that crazy about the Torecelli connection (he's not a very adroit dirty operator)