Barack Obama has as much experience as Adlai Stevenson did

[cali]

when he ran for President in 1952. Stevenson was Governor of Illinois from 1948 until he ran. Prior to that he was an attorney in private practice, a speech writer for the SecNav, and a special assistant to the SoS.

He may not have won, but to the best of my knowledge, no one said he wasn't qualified.

Obamaa has now spent 2 years in the Senate. He spent seven years in the Illinois Legislature. He taught Constitutional law for 13 years.

BTW, here's my favorite Stevenson quote:

We travel together, passengers on a little spaceship, dependent on it's vulnerable reserves of air and soil, all committed, for our safety, to it's security and peace. Preserved from annihilation only by the care, the work and the love we give our fragile craft.

Adlai E. Stevenson

[NMDemDist2]

1. and how did that work out for Mr. Stevenson?? just saying.... n/t

[IndianaGreen]

8. Adlai ran against a war hero and WWII icon, Dwight D. Eisenhower

No Democrat could have beaten Ike!

On the other hand, Adlai Stevenson was a candidate that everyone liked and appreciated for his humility and honesty. Adlai was a great American, and he brought honor to the United States as our Ambassador to the United Nations. Can we say that about Bolton?

[Dawgs]

24. How did it work out for all of the candidates, with a ton of experience, that lost?

Just sayin.

Experience don't mean shit.

[Labors of Hercules]

52. You mean like... Kerry for example?

Maybe, given the environment we're in today, to have a brief record is a benefit, not a curse.

[Pithy Cherub]

2. BaraCk, BaraCk, BaraCk

If you support him wholeheartedly, do him the courtesy of spelling it right.:crazy:

[cali]

6. Actually, I don't support him

or anyone else at this early date, but thanks ever so much for the gracious correction and the giant leap to an erroneous conclusion.

[yurbud]

10. He could seem more pro-military if he pronounced it like the dorm for soldiers: BEAR ICKS

Would make him sound like a guy born on a military base.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. I don't know if there is any connection,

but "Baraka" means "grace" or "blessing"

[yurbud]

19. after marching around all day, your bunk in the barracks looks like a blessing.

[Journeyman]

3. Here's my favorite Stevenson quote. . .

At one stop, a woman pressed forward and shouted at Stevenson: "You have the support of every thinking person in America!"

Stevenson replied: "That's not enough, madam. We need a majority!"

[Clark2008]

9. LOL - That's what we Clarkies repeated often last election

cycle. ;)

[yurbud]

11. he couldn't be righterer. That's why the tard usually wins. Clinton snuck in cuz trailer park

cancelled out his IQ in minds of enough slack-jawed yokels.

[blm]

4. Maybe it''s a good idea to list Obama's accomplishments in his two years in the Senate.

Like describe what he led on and how he handled crucial issues like Downing Street Memos, Alito filibuster, withdrawal votes, etc.... in 2005 and 2006. That might clarify things for those interested.

[IndianaGreen]

14. Obama, like Kerry, is NOT Hillary!

and that's something that those of us that recoil at the thought of a Hillary bought-and-paid-for nomination are looking for. Who will become the anti-Hillary candidate? We won't know that until Democrats begin to cast their ballots in the early primaries and caucuses. Once we find out who can beat the former "Goldwater girl," we will rally around him or her.

[blm]

20. Actually, Obama in 05 and Kerry in 85 both started office with GOP run Senates.

It's what you decide to do with that power entrusted with you that determines who you are and what you stand for and what you are willing to stick your neck out for in the interests of the American people and their rights to an honest and open government process.

I believe Obama's record of leading should be worth sharing, and hope his supporters compile that list for those of us who care about actual records and actions a person accrues when IN positions of power.

I had immense hopes for Bill Clinton. Unfortunately, my hopes were not a concern of his, while covering up for BushInc WAS and still is.

[sandnsea]

22. Has to be considered

But Obama is being framed as we speak and if he intends to run, he better get out in front of it in a hurry. One way is to begin releasing his Illinois record.

Also, if Obama runs, along with Bill Richardson, the minority vote is all up in the air, which means there won't need to be an anti-Hillary candidate anymore.

I still think the key for activists is to stay targeted on branding of the Democratic Party, in general, because that's key to winning in 2008 anyway. So far, the only announced candidate who isn't playing into the right's hands is John Edwards. We need to think about what values a Democratic President would represent when we decide who to vote for.

[IndianaGreen]

25. Ending the war and the restoration of Constitutional rule is the highest priority

The rest is something we can all disagree about, but nothing gets done if we still have endless wars raging in the Middle East and West Asia. We are also all in jeopardy for as long as Bush's dictatorial powers and his security apparatus remains in place.

We need to return to the Constitutional separation of powers, the checks and balances, and restore the Bill of Rights to Preeminence.

To the oppressed, it matters not whether the tyranny is from the Right or from the Left.

[sandnsea]

26. Who's running on that?

Who recognizes that those are the two key problems facing us and has been harping on ending the war and restoring the faith of the American people in Congress. If that's our highest priority, then why isn't the left rallying behind the only candidate who even gets it.

[JetCityLiberal]

42. Thank you

[theoldman]

5. George W. Bush had virtually no experience prior to being

elected President. As Governor of Texas he was just a figure head. The Lieutenant Governor Bob Bullock did all of the thinking for him. All Bush had to do was sign documents that he sometimes did not even read.

[yurbud]

13. like death warrants...

[Freddie Stubbs]

65. And look how well that worked out

[IndianaGreen]

7. Obama has plenty of experience at the state legislature level

Hillary has zilch! As we all know, what a state legislature does has more of a direct impact in our lives than what the idiots in Congress do.

[never cry wolf]

12. Here's my favorite Stevenson quote

It's still quite applicable today:

I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them.

[IndianaGreen]

15. That's a great quote!

Thanks! People today don't know how decent Adlai Stevenson was, and what a great American he was.

It was Adlai's misfortune to run against a war hero giant like Ike.

[dogman]

29. Don't forget Adlai's divorce.

Even though he was a Catholic, the nuns sent us home early from school so they could watch Ike's inauguration. They were thrilled that Stevenson was stopped because they considered his divorce unacceptable. Maybe if he had paid for an annulment he would have passed muster.

[nsd]

60. Stevenson was divorced, but he wasn't a Catholic. /nt

[dogman]

66. Thanks for the correction. n/t

[Infinite Hope]

16. I didn't know he taught Con Law....very interesting. n/t

[never cry wolf]

18. At the Univ. of Chicago, no less

Obama then left Chicago for three years to study at Harvard Law School. He was elected president of the Harvard Law Review, obtaining his Juris Doctor degree, magna cum laude in 1991. On returning to Chicago, Obama supported a voter registration drive, then worked for the civil rights law firm Miner, Barnhill & Galland, and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1993 until his federal election.<11>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

[Leilani]

27. Thanks for the info on Obama

Being a constitutional teacher at Chicago U is a very big plus to me.

Also used his degree for good, not just money.

[never cry wolf]

28. I am sure the headhunters were after him BIG time.

The first black pres of harvard law review, magne cum laude, I bet he had to beat off recruiters from every high powered law firm in the country. He could have named his price but wanted to help the folk on the south side instead.

[sandnsea]

21. A governor who lost???

Well dingedydang - I thought governors were a sure thing!!

[skipos]

35. Who ever said governors were a sure thing?

Senators have had a historically tougher time becoming president for obvious reasons. Two senators elected president in the last 100 years. No senator defeated an incumbent president, yet in the last few elections Ford, Carter and HW Bush were all defeated by governors.

[dpbrown]

23. Then again, Al Gore was already elected president once...

I'll take Gore over Obama.

[cali]

30. Well,

that was non-responsive to my OP. In any case, Gore has said he's not running. I believe him.

[dpbrown]

32. You gave a series of elected posts - but Obama has no elected executive experience...

So in response to your OP, Obama does <b>not</b> have as much or similar elected experience as Stevenson, who lost anyway.

If Obama runs, he will not get the nomination.

[cali]

33. prognostications such as yours are

laughable. That's why I'm careful NOT to make them. I have no idea whether Obama will get the nod should he run; neither, of course, do you despite your declaration. As for executive experience, JFK had none either. Executive experience is not determinative regarding whether someone does or does not get the nomination.

[dpbrown]

36. You're the one not responding to your original post now

You didn't say that Obama was the same as JFK. You said Stevenson. Stevenson had elected executive experience, and Obama doesn't. Therefore your premise is wrong.

I make no prognostications. Obama represents a bit of a flash now when Democrats are a little giddy after having won back Congress and they think they might just be able to do anything. His star will fade plenty between now and 2008.

It's pretty much only people who are doing "rock star" thinking (and Republicans who are pushing him to try to obfuscate the field) who are enamored by Obama.

[jefferson_dem]

41. Talk about fucked up premises. Your toss out totally baseless *conclusions* without

a shred of rational argumentation.

Some examples from your last couple posts --
- Obama will not win the nomination ...
- Only people who who are doing "rock star thinking" (whatever that means) are pushing Obama ant that "star" will surely fade...
- Repukes would rather run against Obama than Gore or other unnamed Dems

[dpbrown]

46. Yes, if I was a Republican I'd rather run against Obama than Gore

Obama has no executive experience and a luster that seems thin at best.

If my "conclusion" about Obama not getting the nomination turns out to be false, I'd be happy to eat all the crow that can be served at that time.

Resorting to expletives doesn't make your position any stronger.

If you think Obama is all that then go ahead and support him. The OP said he had as much experience as Stevenson, which is clearly not the case.

I'll support whoever is the candidate in 2008. I'd just prefer we win this time.

[jen4clark]

31. If it was 1952, he may be a fine president.

These are perilous times -- we need someone with exceptional experience in foreign affairs.

[cali]

34. What is it with you

diehard Clark supporters? Scared of Obama and scared of Edwards. We need someone with good judgement who will surround his or herself with good advisors. Is Obama that person? I don't know, but he could be. I could make the argument that in these times we also need someone who has experience in domestic issues- something Clark is short of.

[jen4clark]

54. What it is with us

diehard Clark supporters is we have informed ourselves to the fullest extent on General Clark's stance on every single issue and know that he is the best. That's all.

[jen4clark]

59. You said it yourself

We need someone with good judgement... That's what scares me about Edwards.

[KoKo]

38. true....it isn't Stevenson's time......well said in a sentence....n/t

[Zynx]

39. 1952 was a far more serious time than now.

If you are going to make such an argument, at least get your history right.

[KoKo]

40. How so do you think '52 was a more "serious time" than now? n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

49. Korean War and the USSR with nukes

[jen4clark]

55. I don't believe that.

I don't believe this country has ever been at a more perilous time in our entire history -- both in our standing in the eyes of the rest of the world and in teetering on the edge of total destruction of our Bill of Rights and Constitution.

[beaconess]

56. Regardless whether we are or aren't at a more perilous time - the nation in '52 FELT in as much

peril as we do now.

It's easy now to underestimate the rampant fear in the early days of the Cold War, but people were absolutely terrified and felt as much or even more under threat as we do now.

[jen4clark]

58. Yes, you're right.

I remember the drills in school where we had to go under our desks, arms over our heads. I was too little to understand why we had to do this, or to be scared about it, but you're right -- the nation as a whole was very very frightened.

[KoKo]

37. I've seen him compared now to JFK, Truman and now Adlai Stevenson?

:eyes: Sounds like Tweety when he ranted about the Chimnp after 9/11.

Sorry...either Obama runs as Obama and who he is in the 21st Century or he doesn't get my vote. Comparing Obama or any other Candidate to Dead or long out of the public view politicians get's kind of "20th Century." :-(

Media Hype is something that really turns off some DU'ers who've seen it all. Adlai Stevenson? That's a stretch. What about Obama vs. Gore?

[cali]

43. The only thing I compared

was his experience. As for comparing him to Gore, Gore has said he isn't running. I take him at his word.

[FrenchieCat]

44. Didn't Adlai Stevenson lose to a General, while the Korean War

was being waged and more or less lost?

[cali]

45. Yes, Dwight was a General

Also an icon. Symbolic of the American victor in WWII, and considered a hero by most of the country. Clark doesn't have anywhere near that level of recognition or adulation.

[FrenchieCat]

47. The only Icon these days are those made by the media, not by you and me

anyways......and so the word hero that you use is of no consequence today...because you'd be hard press to find any real heros at all, and yet the election race presses on!

Since Colin Powell was considered quite the hero, GOP McCain is consistently referred to as a war hero (almost to Eisenhower porportion-see, now that's what's crazy!), and GOP Giuliani is "the" 9/11 hero (you know that's insane!)...all revered and lifted up by our "Hero Loving" media (who are the ones to determines hero "adulation" "earned" these days)....far as I'm concerned Gen. Wes Clark walks as a giant amongs them...and is a Democrat to boot.

As a Democrat, I'm not sure why some other Democrats believe it to be a good idea to look their nose down Wes Clark life's accomplishment and attempt to diminish what he accomplished to nearly nothing (even with two streets named after him in Kosovo, along with many Albanian babies/Children named Wesley), all the while celebrating men/women of NO MORE humble virtue, proven sacrifice, demonstrated leadership qualities, possessing superior education, ability or National security and Foreign policy track record and considers them as unquestionably "qualified to run and serve" as this country's leader.

[Hippo_Tron]

50. Ike was an icon and Clark isn't because it was a different era

If any President today, Democratic or Republican, were assassinated you wouldn't have the entire country breaking down in tears like they did when Kennedy was shot. We simply view our leaders differently now.

[cali]

51. I couldn't disagree more strongly

I believe that the assasination of any president- yes, even bush, would be a shock to America's system, and would indeed result in emotional trauma for the nation. I have history on my side of the argument. What do you have?

[beaconess]

57. I agree wholeheartedly

While he wasn't as unpopular as Bush is now, Kennedy was not hugely popular before noon on November 22, 1963.

[Hippo_Tron]

62. Obviously I'm speculating

And really there is no way to find out.. I just don't believe that we have the same connection that we did with our leaders back in Kennedy's day. Perhaps I am wrong and perhaps you are right. I just don't picture schools and businesses shutting down and people going home crying if a President were assassinated in this day in age. Even when Clinton was in office and had high approval, I'm still not sure it would be the same.

[RBInMaine]

48. Lincoln actually had minimal experience, BUT that was THEN.

Lincoln had served several terms in the Illinois legislature and just one term in the US House before becoming President, BUT that was also a different time with a divided opposing party that ran TWO candidates.
But, true, experience isn't everything, and at the same time NEITHER is "celebrity" status. I like Obama a heck of a lot, but in this very complex age we do have to look at both experience and other electoral fundamentals and realities. I am convinced someone like Mark Warner, a "red" state moderate Governor with broad NATIONAL appeal would have been our best chance (MANY of our most recent Presidents were Governors. Americans like to vote for Governors for President.), or maybe Evan Bayh, another moderate red state Dem who has been both a Governor and a Senator.
FORGET Hillary! She can't win nationally. And Obama does lack national office experience and is a black Chicago liberal. I think he'd be good mind you, and I think he has some real charisma, but I just don't think he makes it nationally right now. With Bayh and Warner out, I think Edwards is the best bet. He has run before, also has great charisma (I have met him personally), and while he has just one full term in national office he also now has private executive experience and he is a southerner from a "red" state who can broaden our electoral map. We can't be an 18 or 20 state party anymore. We need to crack into red states. Hillary doesn't come anywhere near doing it, and I don't think right now that Obama does it either. Go carefully folks. These are very different times. The R's will shred Hillary and Obama in their media juggernaut. Edwards is tougher to attack. He's a good pick. I say
the ticket should be something like Edwards/Clark or Edwards/Bayh.
Those are tickets that could have a real shot of winning nationally.

[unkachuck]

53. for me....

....it's less about Obamas' experience than it is about being railroaded into an early narrowing of the field of possible candidates....do we need any Democrat wrapping up the nomination, two years out, in the anointing corporate press?....

....besides, we could be being snookered....why does corporate America love Obama so much?....could it be corporate America, big-media, big-money and the powerful find Obama willing to dilute Democratic power with 'cooperation'?....cooperation with them and their interests?....

....when the repugs take power they don't 'cooperate' because the 'countrys tired of division'....they forcefully use their newly won power to service their supporters and maximize their hold on power, the public be damned....

....we're being told any new progressive agenda needs to be subject to 'cooperation'....cooperation with Republican wars and interests I suppose....

....we need a bold, strong, fighting leader, not a fad....I might end up strongly supporting Obama, but right now, I'm having a hard time getting past the fact that big-money wants Obama....and big-moneys' interest ain't my interest....

[Clarkie1]

61. Not true: Stevenson had executive experience, Obama does not. nt

[depakid]

63. Stevenson didn't evince poor judgment

the way Obama has.

Therein lies the difference. And I suspect in the year ahead- we'll continue to see evidence of poor judgment. Perhaps with time, he'll gain some maturity- but as it stands, I wouldn't trust him to deliver my mail on time.

[cali]

64. Care to be specific instead of

just tossing out such a broad accusation? Just how has Obama evinced poor judgement?

Let me add that I'll be pleasantly surprised if I get a reply of any substance.

[depakid]

67. Several times

Criticizing the Alito filibuster when he ought to have been rallying the troops (this from a con law professor).

Openly criticising the party chairman about a true statement that he made re: Republicans.

Sticking his nose into the Connecticut primary to support Lieberman

Those are three instances. Given time, I could probably cite at least half a dozen more. The pattern seems to be that he doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut, and I predict that he's going to step into a big pile of shit one day because of it.