BREAKING NEWS!!! Congressman Kucinich is in the 08 race

[bigdarryl]

just broke on MSNBC I am glad he's running he's the only democrat who's got BALLS to stand up for what you believe

[skipos]

1. I won't for him for the same reason I won't vote for myself

for any office even though I agree with myself on every single position:

I have no chance of winning.

[Bucky]

12. This is the same kind of cheap attack politics that's kept Skipos out of office for years.

I'm appalled that all you can contribute to this debate is to sling mud at yourself. It's people like you that are keeping people like Skipos from saving this country.

or something.

[skipos]

22. Why I am spouting Republican talking points about myself, I'll never know

:crazy:

[AJ9000]

44. He's got as good a chance as a black man in America, or a devicive female retread.

He actually embodies what we stand for. We should not rule him out.

[NotGivingUp]

56. He embodies what we stand for....EXACTLY!

[tavalon]

67. The very sad thing

is that you are more right than you know. We are way too femophobic and racist to choose either a black man or a woman of any color.

[Le Taz Hot]

85. So, let me get this straight,

if we don't like Hillary, we're -- what was the word? "femophobic"? and if we don't like Obama we're racist. Got it. :eyes:

I don't like Kucinich, Edwards, Biden who are all Caucasian and male so that means I don't like . . um, Caucasian males.

I swear to goddess people do not think before they post. That was idiotic.

[tavalon]

89. You have it wrong

I was talking about electability among the general populace not DU preferences. Got it? :eyes:

I swear to goddess people do not get clarification before they post. That was just plain silly.

[Le Taz Hot]

92. Originality.

Embrace it. :smoke:

[tavalon]

95. Why bother?

If you can make inane, useless comments, I can plagiarize. I keep my originality for more important things.

[demnan]

2. I very much admire Mr. Kucinich

He knows he's a long shot, but he's entered the race to improve the dialogue. He's wonderful to watch on C-SPAN.

[bigdarryl]

6. he's experianced at running for President more than anyother.....

who's thinking of running including Hillary. so he knows how to run. and plus he was smart to announce he is in early .

[Padme Amidala]

48. He has my full support. America needs him.

It is important that we all get behind Dennis. America needs him more than it has ever needed anyone. He is the only candidate who can save us from from the disaster of the last six years.

Thank you Dennis for believing in us. We won't let you down this time.

[Fovea]

3. One of the three candidates I will support with money

Gore, Edwards, and Kucinich.

Sure there are lots of other's I would vote for. But I think these are my picks to contribute to, as of this point.

It is not a lot of money, but I try to do it regularly during the campaign. Kooch is saying the things America needs to hear. I don't know if he will be in to the convention, but by the gods his platform points need to be there, dept of peace and all.

[Renew Deal]

4. He's got the balls to give his caucus supporters to a war supporter in Iowa.

Good Luck.

[Bucky]

13. Wow, you really had to stretch it just to squeak out an insult.

I won't be voting for Kucinich (not at first, anyway), but I gladly welcome his voice in the campaign. He's a hardworking, pragmatic politician who knows that 40% of politics is cutting deals. He represents the best of the Democratic Party and we're all better off because his voice is heard. I'm sorry that his lack of virginity is keeping you from appreciating what a gift to our country Dennish Kucinich is.

[Renew Deal]

36. The truth is an insult?

Then be insulted.

[NashVegas]

35. Yep, Yep

Kucinich will get no quarter from me, this time around.

[5X]

5. A big K & R for the Kooch. n/t

[knowledgeispwr]

7. This is a duplicate thread. Lock. n/t

[Captain Hilts]

8. I'm glad he's running. PS you don't need 'balls' to be tough.

He's not among my top choices, but I hope he pulls the dialog to the left.

[Bucky]

15. Mine are good and soft and I like 'em that way. Or is this "balls talk" some kind of metaphor?

Notice I'm being a gentleman and not even speculating on what "pulls to the left" might mean.

[TheCowsCameHome]

9. Great. Take two aspirin and call me in the fall of '08.

I'm all politicked out right now.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

10. How so? He runs in the safest district in America!

You tell me how that's courage in any way, shape, or form. Please.

[OzarkDem]

16. Its not a safe district

Any other Dem besides Dennis would have a difficult time holding that district after it was chopped up by GOP gerrymandering a few years ago. Dennis is able to keep the seat because he's an excellent campaigner and he takes very good care of the people in his district.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

18. Prove it.

I want figures. Show me margins of victory/defeat for Kerry and Gore, plus show me how that district voted in 2006 for Governor and Senator.

[skipos]

21. Cuyahoga county: 67% Kerry, 33% Bush. I'd say that is a BLUE district. nt

[OzarkDem]

24. Most of the Dems in Cuyahoga Co are in Stephanie Tubbs Jones District

Most of the suburbs are in OH 10, with a small portion in Sherrod Brown & Steve LaTourette's district. Nearly all of the heavily GOP suburbs are in Dennis's District.

Drop by sometime, I'll take you on a tour of OH 10 and Cuyahoga County.

[skipos]

29. This Kos post claims Kerry won OH 10 with 58%

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/17/181618/56

Really, it makes no difference to me.

[OzarkDem]

40. There you go

Its not that easy of a district for Dems, by any means. BTW, last month, Dennis won with 66%. So you see, there are a lot of folks who voted for Bush that also voted for Dennis.

[skipos]

42. Just so you know, in 2004 while Kerry got 58%, Kucinich got 60% nt

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

69. Are you kidding me?!

58% is unsafe?! That's, at a minimum, a 16 point cushion!! And you're telling ME to quit while I'm ahead?!?

Do yourself a favor and get educated about politics. 58% is as close to a lock as there will ever be in politics.

[OzarkDem]

75. All politics is local

58% sure isn't considered a "safe" district by any means. At least not by most Dem political consultants.

I don't expect to convince you, however, because his candidacy bothers you for other reasons, namely because he's prevents the GOP from using the Green Party to divide Dems.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

76. Yeah, because I want the Green Party dividing Dems.

Yes, I have said that repeatedly. :sarcasm:

You need an education in politics, pronto.

[OzarkDem]

77. I don't know what you want

I'm just not sure why you feel Kucinich's candidacy is such a bad thing. I can understand it if you object to his policies.

Heck, I don't agree with Evan Bayh or similar conservative Dem candidates, but I would never say they can't or shouldn't run in the primary.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

78. I objected to calling him courageous.

He is no such thing. It is flatly ridiculous to assert as such.

My only true objection to Kucinich is the manner in which he puts down other Democrats to make himself look better. I can't stand the self-righteousness he constantly displays. It serves no good purpose.

[OzarkDem]

80. You need to provide some proof

It would have to be very much out of character for him to put down a fellow Dem. Got a link?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

81. Give me a break.

He does it constantly. I'm not even bothering with providing you with proof because it is so friggin' blatant. I have better things to waste my time on. And quite frankly, anyone that thinks 16% margin of victory is anywhere near unsafe is not someone I feel the need to educate either.

[OzarkDem]

23. I live in the area

I lived in his district for 10 years and know it well. I've also worked on his campaign and I know what a brilliant campaigner he is. He makes it look easy to keep that seat D, but it isn't.

The district includes nearly all of the biggest, wealthiest and most heavily GOP suburbs in the Cleveland area - Westlake, Rocky River, part of Strongsville, Bay Village. Even North Olmsted, Fairview Park and Parma used to be full of Reagan Democrats who have turned GOP. Most of the burbs in his district have GOP mayors and city councils with their own fiefdoms.

http://kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/oh10map.pdf

The GOP put a lot of money into his opponent's race this past fall - they ran a former aide of Voinovich's.

[Bucky]

17. Anklebiter

What a terribly petty critique. The courage, of course, comes not from sitting in a safe seat and taking safe positions, but in going around the country, running for president, saying what's in his heart, and reminding us of how we must live up to our highest ideals.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

19. Speaking one's mind is easy when there are ZERO consequences.

He has absolutely nothing to lose. Not a single goddamn thing. I can drive around the country and tell people what I think, but who the fuck cares? It's not all that much different from what you praise Kucinich for.

[OzarkDem]

26. Now you're making yourself look like a fool

Its pretty obvious you know nothing about his district or Cuyahoga County. You'd better quit while you're ahead.

[Bucky]

31. Do you really think he hasn't paid a price in influence & leadership in the party for his politics

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

84. Yes.

Some Members of Congress have no desire to be in leadership positions. Dennis Kucinich is clearly one of them.

[OzarkDem]

25. He's actually sitting in a risky seat

taking risky positions. That's why the GOP spends more money every year trying to get rid of him. If it were any other Dem candidate they might.

[robertpaulsen]

28. WTF does being in a "safe" district have to do with running for President?

You tell me. The courage the OP mentions refers to putting principle above politics. Wasn't that clear, or are you just having fun sewing a strawman together? :shrug:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

70. Okay, yeah, he's running for President.

In a race that even he doesn't expect to win. Which, once again, means he has absolutely nothing to lose. So tell me, how does that mean you have courage?

[OzarkDem]

79. He's seen a lot of pushback for running

The local news media ridicules and attacks him incessantly for his presidential campaigns - trying to turn voters in his district against him by attacking his anti-war policies and accusing him of ignoring his district (not true).

It also infuriates the GOP who keeps dropping more and more millions into races against him, trying to keep him tied up raising money and protecting his seat and distracting him from his campaigns against the Iraq War and for a single payer health care system.

The GOP puts tremendous pressure on him over this. They use it to attack him 24-7.

[robertpaulsen]

82. I answered the question of courage already. You evaded my questions.

How tall is that strawman you're building? :silly:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

83. No, you didn't.

He isn't putting politics before principles or vice versa, for the simple reason that there is absolutely no such dilemma in his case. He doesn't have to. He is not a serious candidate for President and he has no worries about losing his job in Congress. Once again, it is not courage when you risk absolutely nothing.

How the hell is that a strawman? Do you even know what a strawman is?

[robertpaulsen]

87. I answered the question of courage by evading your strawman.

Just so we're on the same page, you created the strawman when you told the OP that Kucinich was running from a "safe" district. This argument has absolutely nothing to do with the OP's position that Kucinich is the only Democrat "who's got BALLS to stand up for what you believe". The whole idea that the courage to run for the Presidency is dependent upon the risk of losing something is a construct of your own imagination. The OP didn't bring this up, you did. The fact of what percentage Kucinich won his district by doesn't refute the OP's argument that Kucinich stands up for what he believes, but it is a good distraction.

[OzarkDem]

90. .

:toast:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

93. Did you read my remarks at all?

Here, I'll water it down for you...

The definition of courage, courtesy m-w.com:

COURAGE implies firmness of mind and will in the face of danger or extreme difficulty

Dennis Kucinich faces NO DANGER WHATSOEVER. He does not risk his job. He does not risk his life. He does not risk ANYTHING.

Therefore, calling Dennis Kucinich "courageous" is ridiculous.

Dance around that argument.

[robertpaulsen]

96. Dance? You're funny. Look in the mirror.

I've already pointed out that your argument is a construct of your own imagination that does nothing to refute the OP's position. And you wonder if I'M reading your remarks? Yes, I've called them out as a distracting strawman argument. You don't need to water it down, I know what you're doing and I think you're really silly.

Try saying Kucinich doesn't have the balls to stand up for what he believes if you want a direct argument. That might actually be addressing the OP's position, which you haven't done yet.

edited to italicize what you've been missing.

[Ediacara]

11. Why?

[OzarkDem]

14. To balance the choices for Dem voters

Dennis gives the more left-leaning, anti-war, social justice, etc. Dems a candidate in the race. Even if he doesn't win the primary, he at least brings their issues to the forefront of the Dem agenda in 2008. Dennis does a good job of representing those people's interests, even if he doesn't win the primary.

[Ediacara]

55. He has 0% chance of winning the primary

You know this. I know this. Most of all, Dennis knows this. Is he planning on wasting donor's money again and never conceding to the eventual winner like he did in 2004? Shall he again claim he was the only candidate that was against the war like he did in 2004 even though it was utterly untrue?

I'm not looking forward to this fool's errend yet again...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

71. Apparently, the fool you're talking to is. (nt)

[Deb]

20. Excellent! A true Pro-Peace candidate

Congressman Kucinich will add a much needed voice in the debates.

[FtWayneBlue]

27. I concur

And will do all I can to help him.

[GenDem]

30. And if my memory is serving me correctly

I liked him in the debates the last go around. Al Sharpton and Kucinich both did a great job. Maybe because they were both long shots - they could say what was in their hearts.

[esvhicl]

32. I LOVE HIM N/T

[NashVegas]

33. I Wonder How Many Primaries Kucinich Will Win?

*crickets*

[Renew Deal]

34. I wonder how many districts Kucinich will win.

I say 0 outside of Ohio and Hawaii.

[NashVegas]

37. Ooch

Call me bitter, but I haven't forgotten what some Kucinich supporters did on DU three years ago. Yes, a lot of other candidates' supporters bashed Dean (and others) at every opportunity, but some Kucinich supporters were particularly outrageous in making this a very un-fun place for a Dean supporter. Even though Dennis didn't have a chance in hell and the rest of DU was playing nice because we knew that.

I don't think I'm going to support anyone in the primaries this time, it's all a dog and pony show and, in the end, the party will choose its candidate by manipulating the media and shepherding the voters through.

[Renew Deal]

39. It's nothing personal against Kucinich

I voted for some of his delegates in NY. The point is that Kucinich has about as much chance of winning as Tasini did in NY.

[OzarkDem]

62. And this hurts you how?

Dennis is probably one of the most loyal Dems in the party. He runs to give the liberals in the party a voice. He doesn't take votes away from other Dems. He does, however, prevent the GOP from using the Green party to siphon votes from Dem candidates, and that usually makes righ wingers really angry.

[NashVegas]

68. Bull

Green party votes count for nothing during the primaries.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

72. Loyal?!

You call someone that calls out members of his own party for not supporting his stance loyal?! That's a joke! Dennis is only loyal to himself.

[OzarkDem]

73. Like I said

Dennis has a tendency to make right wingers angry when he runs. It keeps them from using the "divide and conquer" strategy with the Green Party.

Yeah, he really did a terrible thing by holding other members of his party accountable for supporting the Iraq War.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

74. The ONLY people members are accountable to...

...are their constituents. That was not his job to do.

[cobaindrain]

38. Let's not crowd the stage like in 2004

It doesn't do anything to have these marginal candidates. Kucinich is there to steal oxygen and $$$ from guys who actually have a chance.

[IndianaGreen]

59. I agree with you, let Hillary be the one to drop out of the race!

She is taking valuable oxygen already!

[eridani]

64. They "have a chance" because they veer toward gutlessness

How about someone who says what needs to be said?

[ulysses]

88. yup. what a pity for democracy

that we can't limit the topics under discussion in a national campaign to focus-grouped banalities. There ought to be a law.

[Kevin Spidel]

41. feedback from PDA blog...

they are looking for feedback:
http://blog.pdamerica.org/?p=922

[Douglas Carpenter]

43. issue by issue Mr. Kucinich is the most mainstream of mainstream Democrats

He may hold some positions like his Department of Peace idea that may not hold a whole lot of tractions at least at this time.

But when it comes to trade, health care, military spending, and foreign policy and a wide variety of other issues. Mr. Kucinich actually holds positions closest to that of most rank and file Democrats.

In fact he is probably the only candidate in the race who has the actual record of substance of mainstream Democratic positions and values.

If people can actually hear what he has to say and not be dissuaded away by name-calling and belt-way media type imagry............anything is possible.

[AbbyR]

86. Y'know, that's what I thought

I read his stands on various issues on his web site, and he just seems to make so much sense. Yes, I agree with him on the issues, but I don't think I'm that much different from everyone else - get out of Iraq, national health care, take care of our country and our farmers by getting out of the WTO, emphasis on education - what's to disagree with?

Of course, if someone just doesn't like him because he's not a matinee idol, that's another thing entirely. I intend to support him. He just makes sense to me.

[AnOhioan]

45. I have stayed away form posting recently....

Other priorities going on. But I have to break in here and say I love that fact that DK is running again. I worked for his campaign back in 04 and although my responsibilities now lie elsewhere I will support his candidacy as long as he keeps going.

I also want to say that although I am not surprised at the churlish comments some are making, I am disappointed. I would have hoped that the intervening time might have lent some balance to some particular posters here.

You may not like DK, you may wish him to just go away. Fact is, he is a fighter and very determined. I am thankful he is out there, doing his best to remind us all what it means to be Democratic.

In our system, EVERYONE has the right to run for office, despite the odds. I wish there were more like him to shake up the status quo in the Party and inject some genuine populism into the platform.

Let him run, you will have your chance to support him or not.

[Tom Joad]

46. He's really opposed to the war. opposed to continuing occupation.

Not some variation of James Baker or some such shit.

[mike_c]

47. DK for President 2008!

Dennis Kucinich is the best choice for America IMO, far and away!

[KoKo]

49. Good News for many of us....We can do a Party...or a Toast!

I'll do BOTH. :party: :toast: :party: :toast: :party: :toast: :party:
:toast:

:nuke: WHAT GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!

[hippywife]

50. Hurrah!!

I was hoping he would!

[ddbaj]

51. Love Dennis...

I am not sure he can win, but he will bring a lot of good stuff to the table.

[MaggieSwanson]

52. We're ready for you in IA, Dennis!

:patriot:

Kucinich '08!

[Douglas Carpenter]

53. Dennis has the record and the substance

Peace Majority (composite of a variety of organizations working to reduce military spending and who favor diplomacy over military intervention – see list of sponsoring organizations of Peace Majority) link:

http://www.peacemajority.org//index.html

To see a breakdown of how this score is tabulated:

Link: http://www.peacemajority.org/scorecard/scorecard.jsp?person_legislator_ID=241

Representative Dennis Kucinich:

Final Score: 151.0/152.0 votes=99%
_____________________

Senator Hillary Clinton:

Final Score: 75.0/133.0 votes=56%

Senator Barack Obama:

Final Score: 38.0/68.0 votes=56%

Senator Evan Bayh:

Final Score: 46.0/133.0 votes=35%

Senator Joseph Biden

Final Score: 70.0/133.0 votes=53%

[goodhue]

54. Cool. Now my first choice is easily made!

Obama, Edwards, Gore can all vie for second place in my book.

[NotGivingUp]

57. just think if we all got behind him and did everything possible to

to help him win. we must believe it can happen to make it happen...and it CAN happen!

[BeFree]

58. He's the media's favorite!

They just love Kuch! Can't stop talking about him!
***************

That oughtta tell ya something, eh?

[OneBlueSky]

60. glad he's running . . . maybe his positions will push Al Gore even further left . . .

Dennis will discuss the issues truthfully, which is rare in politics . . . maybe some of it will rub off on the candidates who will actually have a chance . . .

[Skittles]

61. male body parts are not required for courage

I am glad to see him in the race; I voted for him last time

[SmellsLikeDeanSpirit]

63. This is a good thing.

[Ninja Jordan]

65. Great news for those who love to support Quixotic candidates with zero chance of winning.

[dweller]

66. yes, we love

our don Quixotes...
dp

[Hippo_Tron]

91. If Dennis wanted credibility he'd try to become a Governor or Senator first

If he were Governor or Senator of Ohio we would all be talking about how he could flip a potential swing state. So either there two possibilities here.

1) He knows he can't get elected statewide in Ohio and thus I can't see any scenario in which he could be elected nationally

2) He's too lazy to do the work required to build the necessary profile that credible presidential candidates have

[LWolf]

94. Good news for the planet, the country, and the Democratic Party. n/t